Language / How do Poles feel about foreigners learning their language? [105]

Apropos Lord Chesterfield, legend has it that Voltaire allegedly wished to visit the great man on a visit to England, whereupon a close friend of the French satirist is supposed to have suggested that he learn English in order to make the voyage, at which point Voltaire is said to have shot back, "But my dear ('Mon pauvre', though not literally), what is English anyway, but merely French spoken badly!"

In the light of the relations between the Saxons and the French, this comment seems especially apt, don't you?

Language / How do Poles feel about foreigners learning their language? [105]

Bang on, Atch!

People these days forget that the so-called "elitist" British accent of Public School England, with its broad "a" etc. was in fact the effort of the common folk to mimic the artificial pronunciation of the royalty, GERMANS from Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg, who could barely speak English without a heavy German accent:-)

The closest to "real" English pronunciation in our time is the flat a-sound of the Devonshire accent, complete with closed vs.silent final "r".

Language / How do Poles feel about foreigners learning their language? [105]

Iwonka, while I have never once here on PF pretended to know Polish with the proficiency of a native-born and educated Pole, conversely, Poles too need English correction, often badly, yet are often typically too proud to admit it.

In Poland, I spoke exclusively Polish. Figuring most wouldn't know German, Russian, and only minimally proficient English, I decided to play it safe, as the saying goes, and I didn't regret it:-)

Language / Polish words that sound funny? [224]

Exactly, Chemikiem!!

The c sound of "byc" is comparatively much more palatalized.

UK, Ireland / No Poles Allowed! - Latest Polonophobic Outrage Out of Britain [660]

The Basic Law of the Federal Republic differs in this way from the US-Constitution in that we have numerous "amendments" (Abaenderungen) to the Law, which then is able to be amended, changed, ever so slightly (or significantly, as need be). This is what I would dub "interpretive" vs."absolute" as throughout much of Europe in which a law exists as such and remains THE law until a new or separate law has been passed!

England doesn't even have a Constitution to speak of, certainly not since the Magna Carta under King John I in the 13th century.

Language / How do Poles feel about foreigners learning their language? [105]

More than that, I've found that being an English native speaker gives one that ineffable advantage of acting as standard bearer whenever questions concerning usage come up, moreover, when Poles think I don't understand them in Polish when I do and then can catch them in either a lie or an English error.

Normally, I couldn't give a rat's ass if Poles speak English instead of Polish or not. They only end up embarrassing themselves when they fall flat on their faces, linguistically speaking, that is:-)

Love / Any English guys give me advice please. Are Polish women very different to English women? [46]

As an American briefly in Poland once some while back, all I can add is that Poles, women in this case, can come on strong even by comparison with the US, and exceptionally self-confident at first meeting. I've numerous contact opportunities with Poles almost every day for my work and this image has usually been confirmed.

Whether this is compensatory or not, I really can't say. It has been my experience across the board.

Language / How do Poles feel about foreigners learning their language? [105]

Ah, but would THEY, your Polish interlocutors, necessarily understand YOU,...acoustically hostile conditions or not? Far too often, any number of European nationals imagine their English to be so "fluent", they figure any and all misunderstandings on the American's part, must be the latter's fault instead of maybe, just maybe, the former didn't quite get the idiomatic gist of the conversation.

Heck, happens here at PF on a regular, ok semi-regular, basis:-)

Language / Ways to say "bring" in Polish, and differences between them [12]

Thanks, Terri!

Yeah, thought it looked odd, but figured it was slang:-)

Language / How do Poles feel about foreigners learning their language? [105]

RIch & seal99, I completely get what you both are saying. Having said that, I've found, exclusively my own experience mind you, that attempting the switch to English from Polish when speaking to most Poles is usually a mistake!

As you said, seal99, if they detect as much as a minor declension error, aspectual gaff etc., they'll jump down your throat and insist on speaking English. The problem here, of course, is that their English is rarely any better than your Polish, only it's usually peppered with enough vulgar US-style "Globish", making it sound ever so cool, hence, it won't stand out as much as a mistake among international types.

Language / Ways to say "bring" in Polish, and differences between them [12]

More "give"/"give to", I suppose nearly the same, except that to bring need not necessarily involve letting the receiver keep what has been brought. Giving someone something normally implies that the other takes (and subsequently retains) what they have received.

For instance, not to split hairs, if I bring somebody a cup of coffee, I'm not theoretically "giving" them both the cup and the coffee, but instead, I'm simply serving them by transporting the coffee over to where they are. It certainly would sound rude in English, at any rate, "Would you GIVE me a cup of coffee." vs. "Would you BRING me a cup of coffee."

Small point perhaps, though while were on the subject thread of "bring" in Polish, the vernacular of any language often permits us all to cut corners a little:-)

"Dawaj dupa" is also obviously casual, slangy Polish. Therefore, it cannot be translated literally. Just an afterthought, guys.

Language / How do Poles feel about foreigners learning their language? [105]

You misunderstood my point! ENGLISH, not Polish, is by now second nature to you. That doesn't mean that this applies to the rest of non-English speaking humanity as a whole!

I wasn't insulting you.

Language / Ways to say "bring" in Polish, and differences between them [12]

Phrasal verbs aka prepositional phrases though often have no equivalent in Polish. This is usually the reason many Poles find English such a challenge.
I'm reminded here of the movie "Sophie's Choice" in which Meryl Streep as a Polish immigrant laments in that famous scene the numerous difficulties in

learning English:-)

Language / How do Poles feel about foreigners learning their language? [105]

Rich, your linguistic ignorance and rank ethnocentrism are astounding. However, it really oughtn't surprise me. After all, you're the average American:-)

You make the typical fallacy of presuming that what is second-nature to you, must therefore be so for the rest of the planet!
Now we know why Americans still have among the lowest literacy rate among any of the "developed" industrial nations; it's attitudes such as yours.

Language / How do Poles feel about foreigners learning their language? [105]

Amen, Amen, Amen, Ziemowit!!

Language / How do Poles feel about foreigners learning their language? [105]

@Rich, English is "simple and well-structured" to YOU, perhaps also to educated Germanic-language native speakers long exposed to Globish through texting, TV, what have you!

English, simple and well-structured to an Italian, Spaniard, Frenchman, Pole, Russian, Finn, Hungarian, Fijian, Turk, Balt etc...???!
You must be jokingLOL

Language / Polish words that sound funny? [224]

People often hear words incorrectly on a regular basis, even in their own language.

Language / Polish words that sound funny? [224]

Quit projecting, dude, it's getting tiresome already.

Language / Polish words that sound funny? [224]

Spot on there, Maf!

Ironside's up to his old tricks once again, trying to convince us as always that he along might well be the valiant exception to Polish native speakers who've taken up the cause of the English language.

As to his pronunciation, we've only his word to go on:-)

Language / Polish words that sound funny? [224]

Typical Polish errors in similar-sounding, but foreign words with long vs. short distinction, would be e.g. "cheap" vs. "chip" etc.
As to that, I'd swear on a stack of Bibles:-)

Language / Polish words that sound funny? [224]

What was your point then? No, I'm not "high" as you so indelicately put it, but your rebuff sure makes me "low".

Life / Meeting new people in Warsaw [10]

Traveller, I tend to agree here with Rick Steves, namely, that even if the tourist/vacationer doesn't know a word of the language of the country they're visiting, it's certainly not vital any longer. However, although English has nowadays become a sort of international lingua franca, knowing at least some basic greetings (pronounced as close to correctly as possible), easy numbers, and local culture tips, will take one a long way:-)

Tough to strike up a spontaneous conversation with locals though, I will confess...unless you happen to be Rick Steves!

Language / Polish words that sound funny? [224]

There, I actually agree with you!

When I first started learning Polish, I watched Polish movies exclusively in the target language, without foreign subtitles, typically (when available), with Polish-language captions below so that I could see as well as hear what the actors were saying sans interference.

"Pet" and "pat" though, are COMPLETELY different vowel sounds, I must remain adamant about that.

Language / Polish words that sound funny? [224]

It's not nonsense, but a statement of fact! You're so blindsided by your own arrogance, you think nobody could possibly learn Polish as you've managed to acquire English:-)

As I language teacher of English, I can confirm this!

Language / Polish words that sound funny? [224]

Another point occurs to me just now.

Years ago when I was taking my first "official" aka formal Polish language class, the teacher (a native Pole who was living in Berlin with her German husband) told us that frequently learners will assume that there can't be a sound in a foreign language which is in any way similar to the learner's native language. This is not so.

She then proceeded to give as an example how English often elides certain sounds, such as "Missyu", sometimes also "Mishyu" for "(I) miss you", similar in Polish to certain combinations of the "s"-sound in words like "swiat" etc.

This is how what is initially perceived as foreign, later on becomes familiar:-)

Language / Polish words that sound funny? [224]

Any given word in a foreign language will doubtless sound "funny" to somebody from another language group, no matter how fluent they are!

This is why often when speaking to a non-native speaker in a language not their mother tongue, one might on occasion experience odd or cross-culturally "tilt" reactions to certain words, whereby either the interlocutor has to stifle a chortle or quite the opposite, all of a sudden, appears inexplicably serious, when in fact the gist of the conversation is anything but what is perceived by the foreigner:-)

Language / Polish words that sound funny? [224]

Once a Pole asked me in English (out of context, naturally!), whether my translation firm was "cheaper", but of course, he pronounced the word the same as "chipper", and so I replied jokingly, "Oh my, yes. We're always in a good mood when we come to work!"

He didn't get it, but nonetheless became a client once I explained the joke:-)

Language / Polish words that sound funny? [224]

@Dirk, the reverse works of course as well.

For example,"y" in Polish is NEVER pronounced as "ee" in American English, because Poles typically cannot process the sound, i.e. there remains the perennial disconnect between grapheme (what the letter looks like) vs. "phoneme" (what the letter SOUNDS like!) Poles hear only short or open rather than long or closed vowels, unlike in German, to name but a language with both short and long vowels.

Brits can pronounce that Polish "y"-sound, because they tend to aspirate certain letters before a "y", e.g. the first name "B-E-T-T-Y" (beddie or beddee in US English), pronounced in British English "B-E-T-T-I-I" with an aspirated "t-sound" followed by an almost muffled short "i-sound".

Language / Polish words that sound funny? [224]

Yep, that's sure up there, allright.

Language / Polish words that sound funny? [224]

On a related, if not identical note, Dirk, I might have mentioned here once a while back that in order to grasp the pronunciation of the Polish word "pelny", I tried imagining how a standard R P (Received Pronunciation), educated British English native speaker would say the English word "pony".

It worked and I've been told that I correctly pronounce similar words with those letter combinations.