Life / Living Expenses in Krakow [42]

It's totally relevant, because I lived in Wrocław, where prices are about the same as Kraków. Maybe a little higher, but not by much, if at all.

7000 net would not be enough for this gentleman to live on on his own, without his family, and be able to save 4000 PLN a month. With the wife and kid, he wouldn't be able to save anything significant, if anything at all. Might even dip into the red when you take airfare and visa expenses into account.

There's no point in making it sound like a great offer. It's lousy for a mid-career professional with a family who is used to a higher standard of living and hopes to save a significant amount of money in anticipation of a move to the West. Even if he does save 4,000 PLN, that will amount to only about 7000 pounds for the year. Nothing to write home about. And he cannot do that on only 7000 PLN a month, even if he does put himself and his family through hell.

Even if he does come alone, it would be difficult for him to be able to save 4000 PLN a month on a 7000 PLN net salary, even if he didn't have to send money back to India to support the wife and kid. If he does send money home, that will drastically curtail his savings to the point where he might not be able to afford the move for him and his family to the UK. He could end up trapped in Poland away from his family for longer than he expected.

Sorry, but there is no way in hell that this guy is going to be able to make it on only 7000 PLN a month without a drastic cut in comfort level for him and his family and without sacrificing the ability to save up any money.

Life / Living Expenses in Krakow [42]


Not at all. First of all, I'm an American pathologist who makes even more than that, and even when I was goofing around on my extended twelve-year sabbatical in Poland, I was well paid. Second of all, I studied in German and had a wonderful time there. I have about as big a soft spot for the Germans as you're likely to find anywhere.

If Poland were not next to a rich country like Germany, it would be in a lot worse shape, something like Romania or Bulgaria. If anything, I appreciate the boost that Germany has given to the Polish economy.

Life / Living Expenses in Krakow [42]

I highly suspect that many, if not most, of the people posting here about jobs they have been offered in Poland have never actually looked for a job themselves, but are responding to mass emails sent more or less indiscriminately by recruiting agencies. Or, if they did look, they relied solely on internet job sites. So the offer of 3500 gross doesn't surprise me.

Then again, a masters in economics without any significant experience is not all that useful anyway, unless its from a really good school and the holder has a well-developed network of high-quality contacts. It seems everyone, their mother and their dog have a masters in economics or some other math-free business related field. There are very few places in Poland where you can stand, close your eyes, throw a rock in any random direction and NOT hit someone with a masters in economics. And basically the same for every other country in the world.

It's not simply that the OP has nothing to offer. He has nothing to offer that scads of other young unemployed Europeans can offer as well. His failure was to study something that is not in great demand anywhere in the world.

I was listening to an interview with the Polish minister for the economy a few years ago, and he said that if Polish universities stopped granting degrees in economics altogether, it would be thirty years before there would be a shortage. I think it's deplorable that universities admit so many students for useless "humanistics" degrees, and that recruiting for STEM fields is lackluster, at best.

Life / Living Expenses in Krakow [42]

Quite frankly, the only way this might work is if you leave the wife and kid back home, and come on your own. If you could do that for a few years, during which time you will be living a rather frugal student-like existence in a strange country without the comfort of your family and friends in order to save up, well, go for it. Otherwise, it would make more sense to stay in India and look for a job in a richer country from there.

Sorry, but with your family situation and expectations, Poland doesn't appear to be a logical or useful stepping stone for you. Develop and exploit your circle of face-to-face contacts so that it will be easier for you to find a job. That will be a lot easier to do in India than in Poland.

Life / Living Expenses in Krakow [42]


You've made a big mistake here. For your daughter, ISK will cost 14,000 Euro a year, not 14,000 PLN. That means 60,000 PLN for the year, or 5000 PLN a month. You will not be able to afford that on 11,000 net. You will not be able to save anything at all, and your lifestyle would have to be quite frugal. Forget about luxuries like a pool and gym, and probably a car, as well. And trips back to India are out of the question. So you should be asking for 16,000 PLN net, 24,000 gross at the very minimum if you want to leave the lifestyle you want to lead, plus extra for an apartment with a pool and gym. And you won't have any room for negotiation if you ask for that much without sacrificing the level of savings you desire.

Sorry, but employer in Poland is going to give a team leader 24,000 gross a month. You would have to be senior administration or heavy-duty consulting to make that much. Your expectations far exceed what any employer in Poland would be willing to pay, by a factor of three or four.

You seem to have gotten used to a lifestyle in India that you will not be able to come close to matching in Poland. Or you have totally unrealistic expectations that Poland cannot come close to matching. Concentrate on finding work in a richer country in Western Europe or the English speaking countries, or South Korea. Poland is too poor to give you want you want.

Life / Living Expenses in Krakow [42]

To live a decent life with a wife and kid in Poland at the level of comfort you are used to in India, you would need at least 8000 PLN a month net, or 12000 a month gross. If you want to save up at least 4000 PLN a month, you would need about 15000 a month gross to make the move from India even worth thinking about. That level of pay does not go to lowly team leaders, but to senior project or regional directors or higher.

Apartment: 2500 to 4000 PLN a month, rent, fees and utilities included. A house can cost 5000 PLN or more.

Food and replenishable household supplies will set you back about 1500 to 2000 PLN a month for you, your wife and your kid. More if you eat out in restaurants a lot. A bit less, perhaps, if you eat only home-cooked meals made from scratch.

School for the kid can cost up to 1000 PLN a month plus extra for clothes, school supplies and activities.

Plus your wife will certainly not be working, and you have to keep her entertained so that she doesn't lose her mind and start hating Poland, and, eventually, you. The life of an Indian wife in Poland can be very lonely, boring and depressing indeed, especially as Indian women do not associate with each other unless they are of approximately the same social standing. Expenses may vary enormously, but count on at least 1000 PLN a month to keep her busy, engaged and happy. Otherwise she will be constantly harping on you to pay for plane tickets to visit family and friends in India, at enormous expense. Plus there's the risk that she will stay in India and leave you all on your own in Poland.

Then there's the car, which will be another major expense.

And clothing and furniture. And entertainment, recreation and travel. Traveling back to India for visits will cost a lot.

As you can see, 7000 PLN a month doesn't leave much left over for savings.

Yes, you could live a more frugal lifestyle, but your wife and your kid will hate you for it. It would be different if you were a single male recent graduate, or if you were leaving the wife and kid back in India, but for a mid career person, living a frugal lifestyle would be a torture for you and your family.

Sorry, but the salary you were expecting to ask for would cover only about half of the expenses of the lifestyle you would like to lead at the level of saving that you would like to set aside.

Also, why is the best job you can get with thirteen years experience a lousy team leader position? You should be aiming considerably higher. Even so, the salary level you desire may be well beyond your reach in Poland until you enter senior management or administration, and even then. Focus on finding better opportunities in richer Western European or English speaking countries instead. Forget about finding a job on the internet. The best jobs are advertised only by word of mouth. Build up and exploit your network of face-to-face friends and contacts.

Law / Poland student visa refusal - 'intention to leave' [51]

The point is that the are comically easy to get into, regardless of academic record, and basically take all comers. The cost is of little relevance to "students" who just want to enter the country, and then abscond to greener pastures in Western Europe. Apparently, a lot of these schools do rather aggressive self-promotion and recruiting in Africa and Asia, counting that they will at least be able to pocket the down-payment and not have to worry about providing any actual services. They apparently tell prospective students that finding part-time work is easy in Poland to lure them in.

As delphiandomine said above, these schools are not real universities, and are forbidden to call themselves universities in Polish. It appears that there is a loophole in the law that allows them to call themselves universities in English. With precious few exceptions, the quality of education at these schools is abysmal and any "degrees" they confer are worthless.

Real Estate / What is the Rent for 1 Bed Room Flat in Wroclaw & what is the security Deposit? [8]

A basic one room (studio) apartment is about 1500 PLN a month, rent, fees and utilities included except for phone/internet/TV. Two room (1-bedroom) apartment is about 2000 PLN a month, all inclusive. Add about 500 PLN a month for each additional bedroom, and 500 to 1000 PLN a month if you require more luxurious lodgings.

A very important factor is the quality of the windows. Old, poorly fitted windows can seriously drive up heating costs, which is important if you are expected to pay the heating bill. Have an EXPERIENCED native Pole check out the apartment with you, so you don't end up with an apartment that costs you a fortune to heat.

Another very important factor is the size of the kitchen. A lot of cheaper apartments have very small kitchen alcoves that are basically useless. It's worth paying for a full-sized kitchen that you can actually cook in. Cooking at home can save you a lot of money, but you will not be motivated to do so if all you have is a tiny "kitchen corner" (aneks kuchenny). Also, make sure you get an apartment with a clothes washer. Laundromats in Poland are few and far between, and expensive.

The most important factor is proximity to a tram line that services your workplace, or is easy to transfer to. An apartment that is far from the tram system can make your life rather unpleasant. Trams are much faster, more pleasant and more reliable than buses.

Work / I'M SO SURPRISED BY THIS SALARY FOR IBM in WROCLAW 3000 ZL gross [135]

As I said above, Poland is probably not the best place for you. Even if you did get a better job in Poland, your wages and your savings potential would be much lower than in the richer countries of western Europe or in the English speaking countries. With SAP experience, you should have little trouble find a good job in a richer country, so I can't see much point in you coming to Poland at all. Focus your time and energy on finding a better job in a richer country.

Work / I'M SO SURPRISED BY THIS SALARY FOR IBM in WROCLAW 3000 ZL gross [135]


The median salary for a SAP consultant in Poland is about 13000 PLN gross. The median salary in the United States is more than double that. Sorry, but it appears as if you are being severely underpaid, which is not surprising because IBM has a reputation for being very stingy with wages in Poland.

You would be able to live as a single male on about 4400 PLN net a month. A modest one-bedroom apartment would cost about 2000 PLN with rent, administration fees and utilities included. Food and routine household supplies will set you back about 1000 for a rather modest lifestyle, and more than that if you smoke, drink or eat out often.

That basically leaves very little in savings for a rainy day or money that you can send home to your family. Significant savings will not be possible.

My advice would be to turn down this offer. Never rely on job websites or recruiters when looking for a job. Instead, develop a network of real live people in the field that you know face to face. The best jobs are always advertised by word of mouth only. Jobs advertised on the internet are the table scraps.

Also, forget about Poland. Wages are significantly lower than in the richer western European countries and the English speaking countries, the relative cost of living is significantly higher, and your savings potential, which is what you should be primarily concerned about, is downright abysmal.

Get out there and actively look for a job by talking to people face to face, and forget about the table scraps on the internet. Don't pay attention to random emails from recruiters. They rarely have quality jobs to offer. Another strategy is to fire off 500 CV's and generic cover letters to department managers at companies in the country or countries you would like to work. NOT to HR departments, as that would be a complete waste of time. You might only get 10 or 20 replies, but most of those will be for quality jobs.

Also, for God's sake, have a qualified native speaker FROM OUTSIDE OF INDIA edit and polish your CV and cover letter. It's a small cost for something so important.

Study / Vistula University in Poland. Any experience? Any student? [57]

It's not a university, nor is it allowed to call itself a "uniwersytet" in Polish. It's a private "uczelnia" owned by some Turk that caters to spoiled rich kids from Middle Eastern countries, as well as gullible young people from elsewhere. Any degree from there is worthless, both within Poland and abroad.

There's no putting lipstick on this pig.

Study / Vistula University in Poland. Any experience? Any student? [57]

It's not a real university, and a degree from there is worth nothing. Save your money and get into a real university.

Study / Opinion about West Pomeranian Business School in Szczecin? Is it a good school? [24]

Save your money. A degree from this school is just about worthless. The same is true for just about all other private business schools in Poland.

Work / Job opportunities for junior actuary in Poland??? [9]


I agree with Jardinero. It's not so much finding a job that is the problem, but finding one that pays decently, especially with entry level jobs. That is the biggest problem you will have in Poland: wages are very low and the somewhat lower cost of living comes nowhere near compensating for that, so your savings potential is much lower than in richer countries. Internships, in particular, are extremely poorly paid and often enough not paid at all. Your best bet is to stay in the States, or try in a richer European country. Actuaries are in demand everywhere.

Study / Bachelors in Civil / Mechanical Engineering Degree in Poland [39]


In civil engineering, not likely. And the pay for entry level positions is very low.

As for going to school in Poland, you get what you pay for. The level of education you would get is lower than in Germany, the UK or, especially, the US, most especially in terms of practical courses. Second of all, Polish universities do not have strong ties to business and industry, so that greatly limits your ability to make useful contacts that will help you in your future career. Last of all, there is little research and development done in Poland, which limits your chances of participating in innovative and interesting research projects.

Another thing is that no one is going to care for you in Poland. You're on your own as a student, unlike in the States where you have plenty of help and guidance. That alone is worth any difference in price.

My advice would be to study engineering in the States. Another thing I would recommend would be to study a high-paid field like petroleum, geological or biomedical engineering. The first two are recession-proof, and job prospects and pay are stellar, especially if you don't mind stints in some harsh environments, desert, jungle, tundra, mines, offshore oil platforms, and the like.

Also, don't forget about state universities in the States. A lot of them have very good engineering programs, and the tuition is low. In the States, cost and quality of education are not necessarily correlated. In any case, get into the best program you can afford, and explore scholarships.

Bottom line, I see no reason for you to study in Poland, or any advantage you could gain by doing so. Polish engineering students dream of being able to study at universities like we have in the States.

As for Germany, that is a real option for graduate school. I did my graduate studies in Germany, and loved it. Undergraduate is another story. Best stick to the States.

Study / Formalities For Studying In Poland - Sponsoring [22]


Probably not a British or EU citizen.

Study / Formalities For Studying In Poland - Sponsoring [22]


To prove intention, provide solid documents that prove that, in your home country, you have:

1) a well-paying, high-status job of at least several years duration;

2) a substantial amount of immobile property, like a comfortable house or sizable and profitable farm;

3) your own successful business, or a working interest in a corporation, of significant value;

4) a substantial amount of net savings and/or investments in your local economy; and

5) play a significant role in your local or regional community hold an significant office on a local, regional or national scale.

All of which show that you are thriving in your homeland and would lose a lot if you were not to return to your homeland. The more of the above you have and the stronger they are, the better. The fewer and the weaker they are, the more likely the consul is going to suspect that you plan to violate the terms of your visa and stay in the EU.

Naturally, for a student this is very difficult. You'll just have to provide what documents you can, and hope that the consul finds them convincing. For example, if you have held a job in your own country, it shows that you have been able to find employment there. If your family is wealthy and owns a family business which you will inherit, that is also convincing. But this all has to be on official paper.

Study / Student from Nepal travelling to Poland with dependent for further studies. Any job? [87]

It's hard for Polish people to find jobs in Poland, and many leave the country to find work. So there is little chance that you will be able to find work in Poland unless you are an experienced IT engineer. Otherwise, it is next to impossible to find work in Poland unless you speak fluent Polish and have very serious qualifications and experience. No employer is going to go through the trouble of getting work permission for you.

Also, foreign students in Poland rarely find jobs. Make your plans on the very safe assumption that you won't be able to earn a single penny during your stay in Poland. If you can't pay for yourself from your own savings or from your family, then Poland is not the right place for you to study.

Genealogy / Tristyn - Polish version of my Celtic name? [7]


Tycjan is a male name that is a diminutive form of the name Titus, of Ancient Roman, and probably pre-Roman origin. In English, it's spelt Titian. It is completely unrelated to the Celtic name Tristan. Any similarity is purely coincidental and has no significance whatsoever to your original question.

The feminine form is Tycjana.

Work / Italian lawyer - what are the possibilities to work in Poland? [13]

"Consultant" means that you have a lot of heavy-duty, serious experience. Even so, you would almost certainly have to speak fluent Polish, too.

Language / Polish word 'musisz' = need in English? What about 'potrzebujesz'? [11]


The impersonal form "trzeba" is much more common, and it can well be translated as "have to", as well as "need to". In English, there really isn't all that much difference between "have to" and "need to". They asre essentially synonymous.

Work / How to find a job in Geology field? (Poland) [5]


If that is not an engineering degree, go back and finish an engineering degree in petroleum or geological engineering, either in India, or at a good school in one of the richer countries of Western Europe, or in an English speaking country.

If you already have an masters of engineering in petroleum or geological engineering, then don't waste your time with trying to find work in a poor country like Poland that exports petroleum and geological engineers. Go to the oil fields or rich mining regions and your will make a lot more money. You're young and can put up with the hardship for a five-year contract, so go for it.

Also, a word of advice about finding a job: if you see a job advertised, it's usually a bad job or it's already been filled. The best jobs are recruited by word of mouth, so network, network, and network some more. YOU have to get out there, meet real people face to face, and aggressively hunt for the job; a good job is not going to find you. Internet job sites are a complete waste of time.

Genealogy / Gleesau apud Posen, Polonia Silesia [35]


I can't imagine how pointing out yet another major error in the text you presented would be silly or unhelpful. If the priest put Dobrzejewice in Russopolonia, he clearly had no idea of Polish geography, which supports my position that he had no idea where Posen, Silesia or Polonia were.

Language / The lost literary languages of Poland [54]


Probably not. There are only about 4000 people who claim to speak Yiddish, and 3000 of them live in Hackney.

hackneypost.co.uk/2013/03/08/oy-vey-what-did-you-say-the-yiddish-language-in-hackney

How many of those actually speak Yiddish fluently and actively versus just claim to speak Yiddish is anyone's guess, but I would be conservative and go with less than half. Maybe only a few hundred.

Genealogy / Gleesau apud Posen, Polonia Silesia [35]

Another weird thing is that the Dobrzejewice near Toruń was not in "Russopolonia". It was in the Prussian partition.

So "Dobrzejewice" might be an incorrect guess, too.

Language / The lost literary languages of Poland [54]


It is exceedingly unlikely that anyone except a Hasidic Jew would be able to speak Yiddish fluently and actively. Perhaps a few old people who learned it it childhood, but I would expect their Yiddish to be quite rusty from disuse. Any Yiddish speaker under 60 years old is almost certainly a Hasidic Jew.

Stamford Hill in London is home to about 30,000 Hasidim. Chances are some of them speak Yiddish.

Genealogy / Gleesau apud Posen, Polonia Silesia [35]


Hell, no. Far from it. It doesn't come close orthographically, it can't be reasonably described as in the vicinity of Poznań, it hadn't been in Poland for centuries, it was a minute village with an even more minute Polish population, if any at all, so that the chances of a given Polish person coming from their are astronomically remote. The ONLY thing it matches is "Silesia", if, in fact, that is what the word in question is supposed to read. You're building a house on quicksand and grasping at straws. There are way too many ifs and buts here. If Ifs and buts were candy and nuts, it would be Christmas every day.

No place satisfies all the oddities. Chances are much more likely that the priest just made all of this up out of whole cloth than that Kliszów is the place in question. And quite honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if that's exactly what he did.

If it makes you feel better, I'll give you an E for effort. Nice try, but no cigar.

Work / Finnish graduate (master in industrial management) looking for a career start in Poland [21]


You'd be lucky to get a third of that in Poland, and possibly only a quarter. Quite honestly, you don't seem to have any particular skills or experience that would make you attractive on the job market except, perhaps, for the fact that you speak Finnish, which is a wild card.


It's hard for me to see how. Your time would be much better spent getting actual certification as an accountant in Finland, whether working full-time, part-time or not at all at the job you mentioned above. Or obtain some higher level certificate or degree that means something on the job market (according to real live people in your field that you know personally and have talked to face to face).

Come to Poland only if you can afford a year to totally goof off, totally or largely at your own expense, with little, if anything, in the way of return in terms of wages, savings, or professional advancement. Think of it as an extended vacation, and no more, and you won't be disappointed. If you expect anything more that fun, "adventure" and a possibly interesting experience, then you are likely to regret it.

Sorry, there's nothing in what you wrote that indicates that moving to Poland would be a wise career choice for you.


Missed this on the first read. Criminy, another poor sucker with a useless degree who could have studied engineering instead. Business and management masters degrees are worthless without abundant prior serious experience, and unless they come from a top school. Shoot the dork who advised you to go for that degree. He (or she, to be fair) did you a great disservice.

You might want to consider reschooling yourself as an engineer. It's not to late at all, and you will greatly increase your salability on the job market, as well as your lifetime earnings and savings potential, especially if you get a degree in a highly paid field such as petroleum, geological or biomedical engineering. If you want to stay in the business/finance realm, then get a useful degree in something math-intensive like financial engineering, financial mathematics, econometrics or actuarial science.

Math is money.

Genealogy / Gleesau apud Posen, Polonia Silesia [35]

Kliszów is an extremely remote possibility based on making several huge leaps of logic. There are hundreds of places that fit the bill just as well, and actually, nothing fits the bill at all because the document is a garbled mess.

Remember, the burden of proof is on the person who maintains that the town in question is Kliszów, and the proof is dubious to the extreme. The burden is certainly not on me to prove otherwise; that is the default position that is true until satisfactorily proven otherwise, and that is extremely far from the case here. I have thoroughly explained all the reasons for my skepticism, and nobody has presented anything other than very farfetched guess work to counter my objections.

Genealogy / Gleesau apud Posen, Polonia Silesia [35]


That's also a humongous stretch, and a very, very bizarre way of referring to the location of that town, which is much more "apud Breslau" than "apud Posen". It's like referring to Katowice "apud Praha". And Kleischau was not "next to the border" of the Province of Posen. It was deep into Silesia.

Sorry, but Kleischau seems an extremely remote possibility to me. If the spelling is that mangled, God knows what it could be; there are hundreds of candidates that are far more likely than Kleischau. Referring to Kleischau as "Polonia" is bizarre to the extreme. I'm not even sure there were any Poles living there at the time, and if there were, they were a very tiny minority in a very tiny village. Even now, it is a very tiny village, with at most 50 residents, judging from the satellite photo, and there is no sign that it was substantially larger in the past.

The document is such a garbled geographical mess that it is just about useless without substantiating documentation. The person writing this down apparently had zero idea about the geography of the region, and depended greatly on his apparently wild imagination more than anything else. Any speculation about the locations of the obviously misspelled place names is just idle speculation.

Best guess: the priest just totally fudged this up because he was unable to interpret what this immigrant who didn't speak English was trying to say, and that what he wrote bears little semblance to the original.