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Posts by TheOther  

Joined: 13 Jul 2009 / Male ♂
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TheOther   
13 Nov 2013
News / Emigration from Poland (2.1m Poles are living abroad, most within Europe) [37]

Only 1% of the Polish population are working in Germany.

It's 1.4% actually. Poland had 38.4 million people in 2012, of which 532,000 worked in Germany. They are already the second largest group of foreigners in Germany.

Maybe you had contact with cities marked green on this map?

Only some of them, but I believe it's more a question of how old people are. The 40 somethings in Poland are most likely much better in German and Russian than in English, while the young generation turned to English as their second language.
TheOther   
12 Nov 2013
Genealogy / Help needed about my Polish surname, Dobbert. [73]

Polish ethnicity is ethnically Slavic

You misunderstood. What I was hinting at was your claim that there is no American ethnicity because there is no link between today's population and the Native Americans. No "aboriginal connection, no ethnicity" ... that's how it came across. Since the "aboriginal population" of the territory which is now Poland cannot be determined, it's also impossible to establish a connection between the present and the distant path (same as in the US with the Native Americans). Thus no Polish ethnicity and no Polish-Americans, if I would follow your logic.
TheOther   
12 Nov 2013
Genealogy / Help needed about my Polish surname, Dobbert. [73]

I also think this means i'm not Jewish

Just a well meant advice: don't make assumptions when it comes to family history, or you will waste your time and money. Guaranteed.

It seemed like there were tensions

Nah, not at all.
TheOther   
12 Nov 2013
News / Emigration from Poland (2.1m Poles are living abroad, most within Europe) [37]

So is it a lot?

Interesting indeed. To be honest, my assumption was based in part on my various contacts with Polish state archives where employees until very recently didn't speak English at all, but only German and Polish. The younger generation has switched to English now, it seems, which of course makes more sense in a global market.
TheOther   
12 Nov 2013
News / Emigration from Poland (2.1m Poles are living abroad, most within Europe) [37]

Those who are ok don't write comments. That's why you see only negative.

Good point, although I tend to believe that people who are happy in Poland would go against negative or blatantly false comments if they come across them.

But English is best known foreign language in Poland.

I thought German is also widespread. I know for example that there are plenty of Polish nurses in Germany who definitely need a good command of the German language.
TheOther   
12 Nov 2013
Genealogy / Help needed about my Polish surname, Dobbert. [73]

say does it cost anything to check the LDS database

No, not a dime, but you need to verify your findings because there are lots of errors in the database due to the fact that the transcribers can't read the old German script or Latin script in catholic churchbooks. To verify, you will have to order the relevant microfilm (the number comes with the dataset) at one of your local LDS Family History Centers. They will contact Utah and ship the film to your location so that you can read and print out the churchbook entries/civil registration records and others yourself. Costs a few bucks, but nothing major.

If you want to trace back your ancestors, I would start at the Social Security Death Index which is also available at the LDS web site I linked. Once you know the SSN and the place it was issued, you can follow that lead to obtain the Naturalization Record of your ancestor. Plenty of information on there. You can also check the web site of Ellis Island and see if you can find your ancestors in one of the ship manifests. Follow the trail to their place of origin, check online databases of the Polish and German state archives, and so on. The Polish ones have already released tons of churchbook scans and other material.

ellisisland.org (sign-up is free)
archiwa.gov.pl

I'm thinking my original ancestors were either the Dabrowskis or Dobrowskis

Or Dombrowski, which might also be a variation of your family name.

I wouldn't understand how that name would change to 'Doberski'

Up until 1878 there were no offical rules how to write your name; the priests for example usually wrote the family names the way how they were pronounced. In genealogy you will very often be forced to trace various variations of your surname. That's normal.
TheOther   
12 Nov 2013
Genealogy / Help needed about my Polish surname, Dobbert. [73]

Our aboriginal culture

What was the "aboriginal culture" of Poland then, if this is necessary to establish an ethnicity?

Also, does anyone know about the surname Dobrowski?

Have you checked the usual suspects yet? I mean the LDS database?

familysearch.org/search/record/results#count=20&query=%2B surname%3ADobrowski
TheOther   
12 Nov 2013
Genealogy / Help needed about my Polish surname, Dobbert. [73]

it's downright false as well!

Quote (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_group)

"Ethnicity or ethnic group is a socially defined category of people who identify with each other based on a shared social experience or ancestry. Membership of an ethnic group tends to be associated with shared cultural heritage, ancestry, history, homeland, language (dialect) or ideology, and with symbolic systems such as religion, mythology and ritual, cuisine, dressing style, physical appearance, etc."

Nothing of this is true for Americans? Interesting. Does that mean that you have no culture, no homeland and no history? :)
TheOther   
12 Nov 2013
Genealogy / Help needed about my Polish surname, Dobbert. [73]

because we were not the indigenous people to this land so we go by what our ancestors were

Still an unusual concept. I'm from Oz and even though Europeans weren't indigenous there either, we still don't claim to be "Polish-German-Prussian-French-Dutch-British-Australian".

"American" is a nationality, not an ethnicity

After 230+ years it's safe to say that 'American' has become an ethnicity as well.
TheOther   
12 Nov 2013
Genealogy / Help needed about my Polish surname, Dobbert. [73]

That is why I just go with what I was told, which is I am Polish, and my Doberski ancestors claimed they were as well so it is enough for me to consider myself Polish.

You were born in the US? Then you are an American, not a Pole. Why on earth are you guys so obsessed with your heritage anyway? Only Americans do this "I am [Insert country where my ancestors came from 20 generations ago here]-American" thing. Does that prove anything?
TheOther   
11 Nov 2013
News / Emigration from Poland (2.1m Poles are living abroad, most within Europe) [37]

Are you guys sure it's only baseless whining? I know that I have to take the comments with a grain of salt, but there must be at least some truth to them if the number of emigrants is on the rise again. Also, why would the Polish government be concerned of people with poor education leaving the country (other than being worried about demoscopics in general)? I'm just trying to understand how the mood in Poland is regarding this topic.
TheOther   
11 Nov 2013
News / Emigration from Poland (2.1m Poles are living abroad, most within Europe) [37]

What surprised me in the comments section below the article was the frustration of the people that is shining through. Judging from what is posted here on PF most of the time, I thought that people are more comfortable than in the past with the direction the country's heading. Maybe not, I don't know.
TheOther   
10 Nov 2013
News / Emigration from Poland (2.1m Poles are living abroad, most within Europe) [37]

Interesting read, especially the comments:

Poland's Central Statistics Office estimates that 2.1m Poles are living abroad, most within Europe. That figure peaked at 2.3m in 2007, after which some people started to move back. Yet predictions of a mass return of emigrants as Western Europe slid into recession (whereas Poland did not) proved wrong. For the past three years, the number of emigrants has been rising steadily again. Alarm bells are ringing in Warsaw.

economist/blogs/easternapproaches/2013/11/poland-and-eu
TheOther   
9 Nov 2013
Genealogy / Help needed about my Polish surname, Dobbert. [73]

If you want to rely on the word of someone else, then go ahead... :)

Genealogy isn't based on assumptions, but on documented proof like church book entries, birth and marriage certificates, civil registration records, court documents, land records and so on. You never ever trust a web site or any other source without seeing the proper documents. Unless you want to waste years of research in the wrong direction that is - just to find out that the data someone else posted on the web is bogus or copied from another unreliable source. I've been into genealogy for a very long time and I know people who collect family trees like stamps and seriously claim to be a descendant of one of the pharaos.

IMO, Ancestry.com is okay if you research your ancestors within the US, but you pay for data that is often freely available elsewhere. Social Security Death Index for example, census records, ship manifests and more.
TheOther   
9 Nov 2013
Genealogy / Help needed about my Polish surname, Dobbert. [73]

because eventually you get to the point where the only records on ancestry.com are the census ones that won't tell you their parents

What does Ancestry.com have to do with how far back you can get in your family tree? Visit the family history center of your local LDS for example and order the relevant microfilms. If you are lucky your ancestors were catholic and the churchbooks go back all the way to the 1500's. Collect more information by browsing the civil registration records or by ordering copies from the Polish state archives. If your ancestors were Lutheran, you might be lucky to find records through the Evangelisches Zentralarchiv in Berlin (ezab.de/kirchenbuecher/kirchenbuch-suche.php). The possibilities are endless and not limited at all to Ancestry.com.

ow I am limited on how far back I can go

In the east, catholic churchbooks can go back to the 1500's. Protestant ones usually to the early 1700's, some a little older.
TheOther   
8 Nov 2013
Genealogy / Help needed about my Polish surname, Dobbert. [73]

So they were likely Polish, ...?

Instead of surmising whether your ancestors were Poles, Kashubians or Germans (does that really matter)?, why don't you simply concentrate on tracing your ancestors back as far as possible? Obtain copies of church book entries, civil registration records, land records and so on, and you'll get an idea in what social environment your family lived. You might even find out that your forefathers were coming from all three groups - who knows...
TheOther   
7 Nov 2013
Genealogy / Help needed about my Polish surname, Dobbert. [73]

something tells me it is Kashub, because my Polish roots actually trace back to Pomerania, where my ancestors, the Polish ethnics, had lived

Without document proof that's only wishful thinking. Your ancestors might as well have been part of the Kashubian population that rejected the assimilation into both the Polish and German culture. Which would make you a Kashubian-American, not Polish-American...
TheOther   
4 Nov 2013
News / Poland to (temporarily) restore internal Schengen borders [15]

We've had this discussion many times before, folks. The mindset in the west was and still is that Poland - like all other former Warsaw Pact countries - is a part of Eastern Europe. Both geographically and culturally. Even the citizens of the former GDR are considered "east" by most of their West German counterparts. I believe that the generations which can remember pre-1989 times have to pass away first before anything will change in the heads of the people.
TheOther   
3 Nov 2013
News / What is wrong with Poland that Poles emigrate? [167]

Those scores are about the only really valid method of comparison internationally.

They are not, and they've been criticized very often in the past. Reason why is (amongst others) that some of the highest ranking countries prepared their students with tests specifically designed for the PISA study.

Some more criticism here: tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=6344672
TheOther   
31 Oct 2013
News / Quality of Life Index Poland 4th on a list of 10 European nations [18]

The Prosperity Index is distinctive

I would take the whole list with a big spoonful of salt. NZ ranks up high even though the country has a broken school system and is overwhelmed by gang violence, domestic violence, drug and alcohol abuse for example.

Poland becoming the China of Europe

Could well be, but we would have to take a closer look at what kind of jobs have been created in the past. Mainly in the call center and telemarketing industries? How many in software development? Any other significant industries?
TheOther   
31 Oct 2013
News / Quality of Life Index Poland 4th on a list of 10 European nations [18]

Indeed. (see Amazon opening 3 logistics centers in Poland in the near future)

Yes. Amazon is abandoning Germany because they were not willing to cope with strikes (typical American multinational corporation) and thought that they do not need to pay the wages that are standard in the logistics industry. I wonder: are these low paying jobs really what Poland wants? Because now the country is once more degraded to a provider of cheap labor.
TheOther   
30 Oct 2013
USA, Canada / Only one county in the USA has more Polish-Americans than any other group! [38]

As I quoted in a post on the previous page

Did you read the whole 1270 pages of the document to find that quote? ;)

The data on ancestry were derived from answers to long-form questionnaire Item 10, which was asked of a sample of the population.

So the map is based on roughly 16.7% of the available data? Now that's what I call "creative statistics"...

The ancestry question is still strange though. The document states that

"The intent of the ancestry question was not to measure the degree of attachment the respondent had to a particular ethnicity. For example, a response of ''Irish'' might reflect total involvement in an Irish community or only a memory of ancestors several generations removed from the individual."

Which seems to support my earlier notion that people didn't really know or care how they answered that question. Hmmmm ... I vaguely remember that one of my ancestors came from Prussia ... so let's state that my ancestry is "German" just to be done with this nonsense ...
TheOther   
30 Oct 2013
USA, Canada / Only one county in the USA has more Polish-Americans than any other group! [38]

The map is based on the answers given in the 2000 census

My apologies, didn't see that. Still ... even during the 2000 census on average only 1 in 6 households in the US received the long form. I can't imagine that the map is based on 16.6% of the total data. How do you know that the map uses the long form instead of the short?

census.gov/dmd/www/pdf/d-61b.pdf

Quote: "On average, about 1 in every 6 households will receive the long form."

you can't assure me TO but I respect your opinion

Fair enough. :)
TheOther   
30 Oct 2013
USA, Canada / Only one county in the USA has more Polish-Americans than any other group! [38]

4eigner, I assure you that most people gave their country of origin for the ship's manifest and when asked by the immigration officers at Ellis Island, not their ethnicity or cultural/political affiliation. Check the documents at the Ellis Island Foundation, if in doubt.

I hate this time limit to edit responses...

especially knowing how they feel/felt about each other

From interviews of eye-witnesses of the era (some of my great grandparents), there were hardly any tensions between the ethnic Poles and Germans before WW1. The Polish people had a problem with the German state and authorities, not with their neighbors.