Language / Genitive or accusative? Polish language issue. [12]

To nie może być + nominative.
To nie może być : prawda / moja matka / ta książka / nic co kocham / nic.

nic / coś + genitive of something which I suppose is the noun created on the basis of an adjective such as: dobry, miły, ciekawy, fajny, drogi, tani.

nic / coś : dobrego / miłego / ciekawego / fajnego / drogiego / tani

nom: dobre / ciekawe
gen : dobrego / ciekawego
dat : dobremu /ciekawemu
acc : dobre / ciekawe
inst : (z) dobrym /dobrym
loc : (o) dobrym / dobrym

This construction is really hard to understand and I'm not even sure if my explanation is good.

News / How would Poland change for the better (or worse) under a PiS government? [257]


What sort of rise is it?

Life / Are there any Muslim areas in Poland? [173]



I doubt if it ever works. What is on the minds of Brussels bureaucrats may actually not be on the minds of people of Europe.

This happened in the US where they feel 'American' first, but in Europe people feel 'British' or 'Polish' or 'French' first and only after that they are 'European' and this even without any EU in Europe.

Notice that in the UK, people still feel 'Scottish' and 'Welsh' despite the fact that both nations have been linguistically conquered (along with the Irish in the Irish Republic) by the English. Being 'British' isn't as strong as being 'French' or 'Polish' and with a separation of Scotland the term 'British' could have come closer to existing as a mere geographical term rather than a political or cultural one. Ireland, linguistically conquered by England, decided at one point to break apart from Great Britain.

No wonder that so many Muslims of Europe do not want to assimilate. The differences between themselves and indigenous Europeans are far greater than between the Irish and the English. The dreams dreamt in Brussels are just dreams.

Genealogy / SKARBITZKI (Skarbietzky or Skarbitzky) from Dobrzetz/Breslau emigrated to the US in 1861 [11]

You are right. I excluded that Dobrzec at first because it is now is now in the Wielkopolskie province (voivodship). Since the border between Dolnoślaskie and Wielkopolskie closely follows the pre-1939 Polish-German border, I thought the village was not on the historic territory of Silesia. But it was, and it must have been "transferred" from Schlesien (Germany) to Greater Poland province (Poland) on the decision of the Versailles Treaty in 1918. There were minor corrections to the border between the historic Niederschlesien and Poland and your map from the 1918-1939 interwar period indeed shows that Dobrzec was on the Polish side then, while presumably it was on the German side before the First World War.


This is a very interesting remark that he renounces his allegiance to the German Emperor. Could you perhaps show the full text of this petition?

Skarbicki (or Skarbiecki) can be associated with the Polish word 'skarb' which means 'treasure', or 'skarbiec' which means 'place for keeping the treasure'. If it is sometimes written as Skarbietzky', I am for 'Skarbiecki' and not 'Skarbicki', but you should use the German transcription of this surname (with 'tz' and 'y'). 'Stary' can be used as a surname as in, for example, Maria Stary. 'Yntz' is rather bizzare.

News / PiS to force every hard working, low earning Polish family to pay for TV [96]




The least I can say is that it is really fascinating to observe certain people here to be so caring about the poor, the chronically sick and the unemployed. The truth is that they care for the poor so much because it is a political party they despise which plans to introduce this reform. If it were the party whom they like, they would praise it very much for the move because:

1. the TV licence would go down from 21,50 to only 10 ZL monthly for every household (and not for every individual as detective D. wrote earlier in this thread).

2. the fact that no houshold is exempted would make sure that no one will be able to avoid this licence (or tax, as you call it).

Being blind does not automatically imply being deaf and being deaf does not automatically imply being blind. In fact, many of the public TV services are texted and certain public TV programs display speakers talking to the audience in this 'gesture language'.

But none of the foreign detectives following this affair of the new TV licence here have observed that pensioners are either envisaged to be exempted or to have their licence fee reduced (they have observed something to the contrary instead). Likewise, none of those detectives have observed that the main purpose of this new regulation is to make people who notoriously avoided paying the TV licence pay it from now on.

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Personally, I stopped paying the TV licence after Donald Tusk (in opposition then) told us all here not to do so. Unfortunately, when Donald had come to power, he did not care to recall his famous words. As I result, I later got three or four reminders to pay, but did not pay since Donald said originally not to pay and then said nothing about starting paying again. Eventually I paid the TV licence for the 3 or 4 years in a lump sum when I was warned I would be ordered to pay it through a court order. And because it happened at the time when PO was still in power, I thought Donald was not worth my vote any longer since those liberal and progressive parties like PO were not able to make things done, but instead have been only engaging themselves in the discussions on what the new shape of the TV licence should be like for the last eight years. And that's, in short, the position of the dissatisfied voter of the progressive PO political party.

Genealogy / SKARBITZKI (Skarbietzky or Skarbitzky) from Dobrzetz/Breslau emigrated to the US in 1861 [11]

There is no Dobrzec in the vicinity of Wrocław (formerly Breslau) as of today. There is Dobrzeń in the direction of Oleślica (Oels), but its German name was Gutwohne. German sources name Dobrzetz in Kreis Gross Wartenberg (Syców), so this Dobrzetz can't be in Kreis Breslau.

So what is the location of Dobrzetz today?

News / PiS to force every hard working, low earning Polish family to pay for TV [96]


Unfortunately, nearly all of the poorest people tend to have a TV set at home (if they didn't, they wouldn't be "the poorest", wouldn't they :-). If you, Harry, Jon, Roger could afford the privilege of not watching TV programmes at home, you would now be taxed 10 ZL a month for having this privilege of yours. Thus the poorest will get a tax decrease of more than 50%, while the loudmouth, posh people of the expat community will just get a tax increase, no matter how much they would like to dress it up in the reverse on the PolishForum .

News / PiS to force every hard working, low earning Polish family to pay for TV [96]


I shall remind you that up to now the licence has been 21,50 a month. How is the reduction of this to 10 zl a month is going to hurt "hard-working, low-earning families the most" is subject to another long-running, interesting debate on the PolishForum.

News / PiS to force every hard working, low earning Polish family to pay for TV [96]


That only shows how very little you know about taxation. In fact you already pay tax for every day you live unless you can produce your own food in which case you could more or less avoid buying the necessary stuff to keep you alive. And it is not only "they should tax all adults" meaning perhaps "they in Poland should", but it happens everywhere in each more or less developed country. The indirect tax (VAT) is now the major source of budget revenue in the developed countries at least, bigger than direct taxation, and you pay it almost on every day as you live on.


That tax in the form of a fine already exists in Belgium.

News / PiS to force every hard working, low earning Polish family to pay for TV [96]

Well, well, well, the OP of this thread has just shown what biased information can really be:


No, the most important thing is that the new TV licence fee is going to be reduced by half comparing to what it is now or what it was planned for 2016..

1. The TV licence fee now is 232,20 ZL yearly (2015) or 247,30 ZL(as planned for 2016 by the liberal and progressive PO party).
2. The TV licence fee as proposed by the much less liberal and progressive PiS for the year 2016 is 120 ZL.

The trick in it is that more and more people did not register their TV at the post-office or un-registered them, but still watched the TV programmes, public TV included.

Those who paid the TV licence paid it for them as the TV licence was calculated twice as high as the amount put forward by PiS now.

If every houisehold is forced to pay for the TV licence now, there will be households who do not own the TV set, but they will have to pay. Those are very few, however, so on average every one is going to pay for themselves.

In conclusion: there will much be much less social injustice in paying the TV licence now within the system proposed by PiS in comparison to the level of unfairness as observed under the rule of the supposely progressive and liberal party such as PO which for the last 8 years has done nothing or did not want to do anything to reform the system of paying the TV licence.

News / PKP buys Alstrom Pendolino trains for € 665 million [60]


As you said, there are 'normal' pendolinos and modyfied pendolinos. The latter were bought by Poland and not only Poland bought 'non-pendolino' versions of those trains.

Having said that, I must admit that NIE is usually a very well informed paper, even if it belongs to a former Jaruzelski's junta spokesman, Jerzy Urban. As far as I can remember, Jerzy Urban had always managed to ridicule Donal Tusk and his ministers every time they tried to raise an issue against him.

I have always felt big stink behind the Pendolino contract and we are surely going to hear more news on that contract in the future.

Classifieds / Looking for a BRITISH dog sitter in Warsaw [24]


And there are plenty of them, InPolska, on this forum, given than Warsaw and everything else is in fact Polska B (btw, 'Polska B' seems to be your favorite term concerning Poland). There is no Polska A, InPolska, there is only Polska B and InPolska, my dear!


Come on, Rozu.Anti-Brit kick is a little game on here, just as is anti-Polish kick is another game here (btw, the latter game is often played by InPolska, don't you think, Rozu?)

Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]


It is Old French. And it is quite easy to understand by anyone who knows Modern French. In Modern French it would mean: "Honte à celui qui y voit du mal".

The difficult part for you could be: "honi soit qui" (should really be 'honni soit', as it comes from the verb 'honnir'). So it is: 'shamed be he who ..'.

In modern English the maxim means: "May he be shamed who thinks badly of it".


It is because the letter 'f' did not exist in 'original' Polish (at least in maedieval Polish as we know it from the scripts). Thus, a name like 'Stefan' was assimilated in the form of 'Szczepan' with the letter 'p' replacing the letter 'f'.

Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]



Precisely the said news reader does not belong to the category of



I know 'łom' and I know 'dłuto', but I have never heard 'sztamajza'.


I know 'poziomica' very well, but I very occasionaly heard 'waserwaga' and never knew what the speaker was talking about despite knowing what 'wasser' means in German and what 'waga' means in Polish.


'Druszlak' is 'durszlak', though some say 'druszlak', but it is very rare and not proper.

Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]


I don't know how you measure it, but I measure it by how much common sense one has

By the way, the language of Europe which has been influenced most by another language is ... English. And to the degree that even some famous Frenchman called it 'French pronounced badly'.

Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]


- I don't know what it is.


- I don't know what it is.


- No one tells the hour this way in Poland, well at least those with the well-functioning brain.


'Outsourcing' is very common, though in more formal texts you would see "wynajęcie firmy zewnętrznej" or "usługa zewnętrzna". 'Brainstorming' is totally uncommon among sane people in Poland. The widely used term is 'burza mózgów'.

Language / Beginner learner of Polish having trouble with nouns - they change as well as numbers? [27]


In my view, yes, as the question 'ile jest?' is awaiting the genitive as a compliment naturally.

This example nicely explains the Polish name for the genitive which is 'dopełniacz' originating from the verb 'dopełniać' (to complement something with something). The question "ile jest?" is a sort of abrreviation of "ile tego jest?" (it is 'expected' that there should be something, so you put the noun in the question in genetive (or "complimentive"), so you have 'ile jabłek jest w koszyku?" and the answer is (in nominative):

(W koszyku) (Jest) jedno jabłko;
(W koszyku) (Są) dwa jabłka;
(W koszyku) (Są) trzy jabłka;
(W koszyku) (Są) cztery jabłka;
(W koszyku) (Jest) pięć jabłek;
(W koszyku) (Jest) sześć jabłek;
etc.

Language / "Pan" or "Ty" - how people address each other in Poland? [55]


I told you about it. Using "wy" when talking to ONE person was once a traditional form of addressing people in Polish, paralel to addresing them with "Pan/Pani". The social class to which they belonged made the difference. For example, someone of the gentry addressing a peasant would say: "Byliście dzisiaj w kościele, dobra kobieto/Genowefo? Notice that the "byliście" form is in plural, but "dobra kobieto" or "Genowefo" is singular. Thus, we in Poland are perfectly familiar with the form "vous" ("wy") as a way of addressing people. It is out of date in Poland now, although still heard in some villages.


It is a usage mistake that only shows they were taught French improperly. These people should not talk in French since they do not know basic things about the basic sociolinguistic contexts.


The form "Pani/Pan", although formally is perhaps not referred to as "pronoun" is exactly a personal pronoun replacing the pronoun "on/he/il" or the pronoun "ona/she/elle". It is exactly that and nothing more than that. The sentence "Czy Pani była dzisiaj w kościele?" is formed precisely on the same pattern as the sentence "Czy ona była dzisiaj w kościele?". As I said before, this is identical with how the word "usted" is used in the Spanish language. Sometimes the form "on/ona" is jokingly used between people in Poland when addressing one another.

edited

Language / "Pan" or "Ty" - how people address each other in Poland? [55]


This is a traditional and very specific title for a pharmacist serving customers in the apteka. It is just as the Anglo-Saxon title "Mr" rather than "Dr" used for a surgeon. I think you have a similar phenomenon in French when addressing military men of higher rank, adding "mon", for example, mon colonel or mon général.


It is coming out of use. Definitely in Warsaw it is considered out-dated and a bit peasant-like. In the company I work for, no one uses this title speaking to anyone. Sometimes I receive letters from the "provinces" with this title preceding my name and I find this really bizzare.


You are confusing things, In Polska. In Polish we have the form "vous" which is "wy". For a long time it was the traditional form used to address people in the country rather than in town instead of "Pan/Pani", so it was used exactly like it is used in French today (Byliście dzisiaj w kościele, Genowefo?).

The German form "Sie" is literally not "vous", but corresponds to the Fench "ils/elles". You conveniently don't mention the Spanish language which has the forms exactly corresponding to the Polish forms "Pan/Pani/Państwo" which are "Usted/Ustedes".

News / Roman Polanski accused of unlawful sex with a minor [403]


In reality, extraditing Roman Polański would be rather embarrasig both for the US and Poland and I don't think it would ever happen. First, the crime - according to Polish law - has expired. Second, he was forgiven by the victim and later on that woman even published a book on the affair. Any court in Poland would be taking these two factors into account as we are not as yet (fortunately or unortunately?) a state of the Union.


The famous case of DSK, chairman of the IMF (infamously dubbed in France after 'Fonds monétaire international (FMI)' as "FMI - femme de ménage inclue"), suggests otherwise. DSK was caught and arrested in the US, while his "deeds" to women had long been swept under the carpet in France.

News / Roman Polanski accused of unlawful sex with a minor [403]



There is no such man in Polish politics.

Language / Polish pronounciation of: cz vs ć/ci, sz vs ś/si, ź vs ż and dż vs dź/dzi - how to make these sound diff [79]

"We środę" is only said by some old peasants around Warsaw, "we Wiedniu" is said by some old people in Kraków who still believe Franz Joseph is alive and well. The rest don't care about what Profesor Szober thinks and neither do I !

Who the hell is Profesor Szober?

News / Poland Parliamentary elections 2015 [1060]


I confirm this. I myself stopped paying and a lot of my friends did. When I asked them why they didn't pay, they said: Because Donald told us not to pay. And I also told them: I don't pay because Donald urged me not to pay ...

Oh dear, how wrong I was! Later on, when Donald got into power, he forgot about what he said before 2007. I eventually got the message from the post office saying I must pay, plus adding a penalty payment over my 3-year long overdue payments amounting to about 800 zloties. And that was about a year ago, at a time when no one ever imagined that the day came when Jarosław the Great would take it all ...

So, I suffered a great deal in the yoke of PO and it is not at all true what the PF's Harryesque hypocrites now say about PiS:

Language / Polish pronounciation of: cz vs ć/ci, sz vs ś/si, ź vs ż and dż vs dź/dzi - how to make these sound diff [79]


In Polish you once also had the soft r' or the soft w' in the final position of the word. The trace of the final soft w' still exist in declensions, for example you have:

Wrocław --> we Wrocławiu, but
Kraków --> w Krakowie
This is because the w at the end of the name Wrocław was once pronounced softly as for example in the Russian word кровь (krov').

Of course, you still have the soft w' in the beginning or in the middle of the word like in 'wierzyć' or 'kwiecień'.

News / Poland Parliamentary elections 2015 [1060]


The name is Szydło. Beata Szydło.

Work / Poland seeking more natural English speakers [54]


The obvious mistake.

Language / Polish pronounciation of: cz vs ć/ci, sz vs ś/si, ź vs ż and dż vs dź/dzi - how to make these sound diff [79]


'Ś' and 'si' are exactly the same (except when 'si' is specially marked in the dictionaries as in the case of the word 'silos'' for example). This is only the matter of writing convention. The letter 'i' following the 's' tells you: soften the pronounciation of the preceding consonant 's' into the soft consonant 'ś': siedzieć, siać, siwy [śedzieć, śać, śiwy].

You don't even pronounce 'i' after 's' (except when 'i' is followed directly by a consonant like in 'siwy'), it is the mark of softness only. The same rule applies to: ć/ci, ź/zi, dż/dzi.

The letter 'i' dis not needed as a mark of softness when the sound 'ś' is followed by a consonant or is in the final position: ślizg, święto, pośrednio, ktoś. We use then the letter 'ś' on its own.

Work / Poland seeking more natural English speakers [54]


I once met a native speaker of English in England who did know the meaning of the "right-wing" or "left-wing" terms. I was shocked since I as a foreigner was using them and the native speaker did not understand them. Are these 'everyday' expressions or not? Probably not in certain social environments.


That would depend on the language level of the test. You may probably conceive a test which almost every native speaker of the language fails

The mistakes made by native speakers or by foreigners are of different type.

News / Poland Parliamentary elections 2015 [1060]


This survey sounds pretty credible. Both Kopacz and Szydło performed rather badly in the TV debate on Tuesday. Szydło used to start her answer to every question with "Szanowni Państwo" which was really irrtating. In fact, she had nothing interesting to say and she has become really dull recently. Kopacz repeated things like a parrot and tried to play the tune of "horrible PiS is coming to town", but she should have realized that this is a broken record now and does not appeal to anyone except the British expats here on the PF. Kukiz is irritating per se when he is saying something. I remember he was much better in the early stage of the campaing.

The best performer was Adrian Zandberg whom the parents brought from Denmark to Poland some 30 years ago (possibly a Danish father and a Polish mother). If it is him who is under "Razem - 2,0%", I would have expected he would get more votes at the expense of Kukiz'15.

As I wrote in another thread to which no one reacted except Grzegorz, the ever increasing gap between labour productivity and the level of wages in Poland (3,3% versus 0,9% a year for the last 10 years; the worst result in the EU) makes people feel their economic situation is getting worse. And indeed it has become worse for them since they work more while their wages stay almost the same. That undoubtedly make them vote PiS, Kukiz and the like, and may make them vote Zandberg.

Genealogy / Slavs are descendants of Sarmatians? [600]


If it is so, then it most probably they got it from the Turks or other people living east of Poland.

Basically, in the Middle Ages the Poles were known either by the names derived from the name "Polanie" (to the people living west of Poland) or derived from the name of the tribe Lędzianie (to the people living east or south of Poland). The latter is very well heard in Hungarian (Lengyel) and in Lithuanian (Lenkija). In Ruthenia the word went through some trasformation (not explained satisfactorily yet) to form the word "Lach/Lech". Some mediaeval Polish historians adopted the name "Lech" to call the Polish people "Lechici" or to call their legendary ancestor with the name "Lech".

The tribe of "Lędzianie" lived in today's Rzeszów/Zamość and further east to the Ukraine regions (the so called "Grody Czerwieńskie" area), while the tribe of "Polanie" lived around Gniezno (surprisingly, you can find the "Hill of Lech" {Wzgórze Lecha} in Gniezno, but the name is of a later date).