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Posts by Antek_Stalich  

Joined: 6 May 2011 / Male ♂
Last Post: 16 Jun 2011
Threads: Total: 5 / In This Archive: 4
Posts: Total: 997 / In This Archive: 862
From: Poland, Brwinów
Speaks Polish?: Native speaker
Interests: Making music, photography

Displayed posts: 866 / page 4 of 29
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Antek_Stalich   
16 Jun 2011
Language / Czech language sounds like baby talk to most Poles. Similarities? [222]

Nie pękam,Antku! -:)) Ale twój język ojczystowy jest język polski, a dlatego twój język ojczystowy lepiej rozumiesz niż angielski, nieprawda? Tak, dobrze! Poza tym TY nie piszesz idealnie po angielsku. Jednak jako cudodziemiec nie źle piszesz,.

I'm not afraid to write in my far-from-perfect English and you shall not be afraid to write your Polish.

Only in Rozmowy po polsku section. I don't intend to repeat myself anymore.
Antek_Stalich   
16 Jun 2011
History / Pieces of Real Polish History [60]

Don't you think I have learned the history enough to understand that racism, nationalism, reactionary views, hate spreading lead to nowhere?

Do you have to say anything on topic?
Antek_Stalich   
16 Jun 2011
Language / Ukrainian language similar to Polish? [236]

Thanks a lot, Woon. Now, it is a piece of really good work!

Remember: Ukrainian "h" is actually close to "g", it is a hard h - not the same as ch in Polish. It is said by Wikipedia, Ukrainian h is like English h in "behind". So I'll use here below h as English h, not as Polish ch.

Yes. As I said before, my Mum could pronounce her Polish h's and ch's distinctly due to the Ukrainian influence in the region. Nowadays, Poles pronounce "h" and "ch" identically, softly.
Antek_Stalich   
16 Jun 2011
History / Pieces of Real Polish History [60]

My Dad was born in 1919 in Warsaw, in a family of a soon-to-become gardener, an unqualified but literate Warsaw worker who took the opportunity of buying his piece of land by bank loan after the partition of large estates. The land of my Grandpa was located in Wawrzyszew on northern outskirts of Warsaw. My Dad took the opportunity of education, finishing a technical high-school, the funds for learning obtained from Mrs Piłsudska Foundation to promote talented school pupils. Just before the outbreak of WWII, my Dad was doing apprenticeship in a truck-construction company in Warsaw.

On September 1st, 1939, first Nazi bombs hit Warsaw, including the house of my grandparents and killing the horse. Vigorous fight took place between Polish and German troops nearby. Poles lost the battle and their graves can be found in the Wawrzyszew cemetery.

My Dad, as instructed by radio broadcast set off on his bicycle together with a group of local boys in the direction of Romania. As soon as the boys got into the former East Lesser Poland, Ukrainians robbed bicycles off the boys and they continued walking. On September 17th, 1939, the Soviet troops entered the area. The group was caught in a real estate of a Czech landowner. The Soviets asked the landowner who the boys were. The Czech said: "They are my farm-hands". "Show hands!" the Soviet soldier demanded. The boys showed the hands, and the hands were... black. If the hand had been white, the boys would be executed on spot as "panowie" (upper-class people). Irony was, the boys were industrial workers but every qualified worker wore protective hand-gloves at work, so the hands would be white. Yet, the hungry boys ate fresh walnuts the day before, the walnut juice making their hands black...

My Dad took the difficult way back home, and indeed he had to pass the German-Soviet border at peril of being shot down.

The winter 1939/1940 was hungry. The family had to eat another horse. Under Nazi occupation of Warsaw it was hard to find work. Around 1941, my Dad was making money by trading used clothes at the Kercelak market in Warsaw. The market was surrounded by Nazi soldiers and my Dad was caught in the round-up. He was transferred to Germany as a slave labourer. The history of his stay in Germany, surviving coal mine, his escape from coal mine and his capture by Gestapo, roof repairs in bombarded Essen, surviving massive Ally bombardment of Essen where the river burned, his escape from Essen and pretending to be someone else to find better job, his liberation by the British in 1945, his D.P. fate in after-war Germany, his immigration to Australia via UK, and his return to Poland in 1957 could make a good novel.

My Mum was born in 1922 in Peczeniżyn (Pechenizhyn) near to Horodenka, Stanisławów (Ivano-Frankovsk) voivodship, near to the Romanian border of the era. My Granpa was a car-driver at local Polish administration and my Grandma was a Polish teacher. After the occupation by Soviets in 1939, things started happening. In 1941, the local Polish population, especially clerk, teacher, generally intelligentsia families went to the Soviet proscription lists, to be exiled to Siberia. Two uncles and an aunt were met by this fate. Both uncles died in Soviet Union, and the aunt returned, mentally ill and died soon. My Mother's family was on the exile lists for June 1941. Before that happened, Nazis attacked Soviet Union on June 22nd, 1941. My Grandpa was working as the driver for the Soviet administration at the time. When panicked Soviet officer run out the building, shouting and waving his pistol, Granpa pretended the engine had broke. He might get shot, yet the officer requisitioned a horse cart and escaped. My family avoided certain death in Siberia, saved by... Germans.

My mother did not want to talk on next years only describing those as a "dark era". Once she told me about her friend, a lovely Jewish girl that disappeared some day, apparently killed or taken away by... who knows? Ukrainian nationalists? Nazi? My Mother never wanted to go to back to see her homeland again, even if such possibility existed after 1989.

After WWII, the remaining family was expatriated to Wrocław, Bydgoszcz, £ódź. My Mother after graduating in microbiology settled in Warsaw and met my Dad in 1957 there.

What I have described are fates of just two Poles, and we could talk about millions of different fates. I'm not a nationalist, racist, or hater. I've seen a great part of the world, survived the commie rule in Poland. I can only see that history is making turns over and over. People forget. People only can read. People form their opinions based on the information chaos of the Internet. And they never learn.

No need to get personal

Not planning on moving anymore posts. Please keep it on topic, there is no reason to make another forum member the point of your thread. If you have something to say, do it through a PM.
Antek_Stalich   
16 Jun 2011
History / What do Poles owe to Russians? [193]

This time I start regretting my Dad was helping German people against oppression just after WWII.

Pro_Svet: The Soviets were the chosen nation.

I know my peoples history better than you!

My Dad and Mum experienced the history personally, my Schwabischer Freund... Or shall I say Feind?
Antek_Stalich   
16 Jun 2011
History / What do Poles owe to Russians? [193]

Erm....you both know that "Nazi" acutally means member of the NSDAP, ja?

Nazi stands for National Socialist. What are you thinking Soviets were? InterNational Socialist = iNazis! ;-)

And, KrakauerwurstBoy, don't tell me there was no Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact.

My Dad escaped Nazi-bombarded Warsaw only to fall in Soviet hands and he was almost executed down there in the Soviet occupied Poland. I'm very sensitive to such matters.

Bratwurst, the enormous luck of my Dad and of my Mum made my existence possible. I'm not a nationalist or a hater at all. Yet, sometimes I think even you could benefit from learning TRUE history, the history of people.

However it hurts your feelings.
Antek_Stalich   
16 Jun 2011
History / What do Poles owe to Russians? [193]

This is "what you've been told". I support Pawian's views. Poles and Russians come along well, and as you have properly noticed "there are Nazis on both side", which is true, at least here on PF. Not in real life, rest assured.
Antek_Stalich   
15 Jun 2011
Language / Ukrainian language similar to Polish? [236]

"tej" (pron. tey) is a meaningless word used by Posnaners as a comma.

To answer Nathan fully: Polish is a pretty uniform language all over Poland and we do not experience similar problems as the Ukrainians with their language.
Antek_Stalich   
15 Jun 2011
Language / Ukrainian language similar to Polish? [236]

It's certainly much easier to understand than the hyper-fast Poznan Polish :(

Oh, poor boy ;) I wanted to mention Poznań as the next city but they use too much of the "tej" word and for example "kapce", "spultać się" and other regionalism eliminate Poznań as the pure-Polish-language city.

Wrocław is inhabited only by immigrants from all over Poland, from former Polish territories and by immigrants from abroad. The virtue cultivated in Wrocław is "speak the purest Polish possible" and it is people of Wrocław who drew my attention to some mistakes I used to make.

I used to say: "Mi się to nie podoba!" (Me doesn't like it!)
And they made me say: "Mnie się to nie podoba!" (I do not like it!) ;-)
Antek_Stalich   
15 Jun 2011
Language / Czech language sounds like baby talk to most Poles. Similarities? [222]

This is not any effort Sobieski... Read my posts #9 and #11. More on the subject:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Czech_language#National_Renaissance
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_National_Revival

Czech language disappeared for 160 years and re-creation of the language by revivalists took another 60 years.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Slovak_language#Standardization
<-- read also about forbidding the usage of the Slovak language by the Hungarian. Slovak was created in the sense of building it from local dialects as the language did not exist before.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%BDudov%C3%ADt_%C5%A0t%C3%BAr

Third language of this kind I know (artificially created) is Nynorsk, the New Norwegian.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Norwegian
Antek_Stalich   
15 Jun 2011
Language / Polish and other West Slavonic languages and "pozor vlak" :) [48]

Do dialects exist in Poland on a local level?

I think they do but are heavily equalized and supressed by the influence of the TV. It is hard to tell what region given person really is unless the person is involving their local language (Silesian, local dialects of the Eastern Wall) or specific words such as Poznań "tej". I think the unified language has helped Poland survive partitions, wars, and helped maintaining the national identity, in great part thanks to the role of the Catholic Church.

Interesting fact: Language such as Silesian is full of local dialects (Ruda Śląska Silesian speaks differently from Pszczyna Silesian) but Polish is pretty standarized!

If a person says "bynajmniej" instead of "przynajmniej" it only denotes the person is either from countryside or ill-educated.
Antek_Stalich   
15 Jun 2011
Language / Polish and other West Slavonic languages and "pozor vlak" :) [48]

Oh, yes. I mentioned these words in another thread:
Cz. zachod, Pl. wychodek (privy)
Cz. zapad, Pl. zachód (West)

and also the famous Polish "szukać" (to search) meaning sexual intercourse in Czech. Lyzko added his observations there, too.
Antek_Stalich   
15 Jun 2011
Language / Polish and other West Slavonic languages and "pozor vlak" :) [48]

There is a Swedish and Danish word (can't remember it now) that means "solemn" in one language and "jolly" in the other. Just imagine a Swede getting on taxi and asking the driver to take the Swede to some jolly place in Copenhagen, and the Danish driver taking him to a church ;-)
Antek_Stalich   
15 Jun 2011
Language / Czech language sounds like baby talk to most Poles. Similarities? [222]

Tak jest, Antku! Ale moim zdaniem "Standard Language" nie jest rzeczywiścy, lecz artyficialny.

Tak, oficjalny czeski nie jest naturalnym lecz sztucznym językiem. Yes, Standard Czech is an artificial language yet it is used by all educated people, on the TV, in the press, in books, etc. This is as if it were BBC English squared ;-) That was the very intention of the Fathers of The Czech Language. However, the Nature hates vacuum, therefore Popular Czech is the language spoken in the streets, in pubs, even by University Professors. Already "The Good Soldier Švejk" is full of Popular Czech of the era mixed with some Folk Czech. Examples from Švejk: the train carriage is "vůz" in Standard Czech but Švejk used to call it "vagón". The main meal of day is "obiad" in Polish, it is "oběd" in Standard Czech but Švejk called it "voběd" which is either Popular or Folk version.

Popular Czech allows borrowed words; Standard or Formal Czech forbids any borrowings.

BTW, £yżko, rozumiem co do mnie mówisz, nawet jak nie piszesz idealnie. Nie pękaj! ;-)
Antek_Stalich   
15 Jun 2011
Language / Czech language sounds like baby talk to most Poles. Similarities? [222]

Although I know that Poles understand Slovak and Ukrainian much better as Czech. Maybe the Polish native speakers on this forum could confirm/ dispute this ?

See my post #9. Czech has been artificially re-created to be a language not to resemble Polish. There was no similar restriction when Slovak was being re-created.

But how do you explain "vlak"

Because the engine "vleèe" (wlecze = drags) carriages. Once you understand the Czech language, it becomes unbelievably well organized and logical language, not all those Polish exceptions. Truly.

As concerns the Beskidy Highlanders - my wife is a Polish Góralka - they share their language (not dialect) with the Polish Górale

Pay attention which part of Beskyd is in Czech Republic. I was there among the Zaolzian highlanders. It was not the language you can hear in Tatra.

Now's question: How does Slovak sound to Czech ears and vice versa??

I cannot answer this but I can tell you what I was told myself. There was a time in my life when I almost lived in my car, switching between CZ and SK constantly. I liked speaking my very poor Czech/Slovak informally because it made locals extremely friendly. However, Czech people perceived me as a Slovak, and I was Slovak to the Czech people. Once, at a Bratislava hotel, an employee told me in a presence of a young Slovak person (he spoke Slovak): "You, as a Czech person (!) understand the language difference and you know that you'd say bílý and I'd say biely (white) but in the past we could perfectly understand each other. Now, this young (Slovak) person here experiences problems with understanding the Czech language". I'm sure older generations there see nothing strange between both languages but it might be different for Slovak and Czech youth.

What about the differences between Moravian for example and High Czech? Is that like between High and Low German ?

Bear in mind the existence of the Formal Czech, Popular Czech and Folk Czech. The differences are certainly to be found in the Folk Czech, perhaps some in Popular Czech and no differences in Formal Czech.
Antek_Stalich   
15 Jun 2011
Language / Ukrainian language similar to Polish? [236]

Antek_Stalich: Just read what I wrote about Ukrainian myself just above ;-) Already Juszczenko has convinced me!
about what?

That Ukrainian is a beautiful language!

Antek_Stalich: (However, I can understand Russian fluently, and I don't get as much of spoken Ukrainian).
practise makes perfect. Russian is probly harder for a Polish speaker.

Not when you start learning it at age of 11 ;-)

Antek_Stalich: He prefers speaking Polish, pan Nikołaj ;-)
well, convince him to give you some lessons;)

Not that he would a permanent employee, oh no ;-)
Antek_Stalich   
15 Jun 2011
Language / Czech language sounds like baby talk to most Poles. Similarities? [222]

RobertLee, this is like you were describing Swedes in eyes of the Danish, no more no less. Should Czech jump on you, kiss you on the mouth and sing songs to please you? Czech people are reserved, reasonable, cool & cold people on formal occasions but they warm up privately. How much do you know RobertLee to form opinions like yours? What are your personal impressions from your stays in the Czech Republic?
Antek_Stalich   
15 Jun 2011
Language / Ukrainian language similar to Polish? [236]

Ya vazhayu Vam schtschastya, kochania...
I'm loving it! ;-)

Aphro, I'd like to go and see Ukraine, especially the Ivano-Frankovsk region. How do you perceive Ukraine of today? Can I safely go there? You can make some comparison with Poland? I know this is little OT but when we are already at it..

Having some drink with Natan and perhaps a friendly fight would be reallty something! ;-)

Do we Poles need visa?

Just read what I wrote about Ukrainian myself just above ;-) Already Juszczenko has convinced me!

'Krysa" means "a rat" also in Czech ;-)

(However, I can understand Russian fluently, and I don't get as much of spoken Ukrainian).
Antek_Stalich   
15 Jun 2011
Language / Ukrainian language similar to Polish? [236]

Not a chance, even their King doesn't speak Dutch! ;)

I'd like to know from our Ukrainians if their top leaders can speak good Ukrainian today.
Antek_Stalich   
15 Jun 2011
Language / Ukrainian language similar to Polish? [236]

I was not talking acquired languages such as English, Aphro. I of course agree the Ukrainian language exists but on the other hand people saying Silesian or Kashubian languages are dialects (even such kind souls such as Seanus) make me white-hot of anger and you, a Ukrainian can understand perfectly why.

Don't you speak Ukrainian, Russian, Polish and English?
Antek_Stalich   
15 Jun 2011
News / Conservative-liberalism (Laissez-faire liberalism), another utopia for Poland? [99]

JKM was a quarter century younger back in 1980s and certainly he was an idealist at that time. The reality has verified his views and indeed JKM seems to me a hypocrite today, as you outlined above.

If you could ever talk with JKM, tell him this old joke (perhaps I am repeating myself):

A person who uses own money for own purposes is a capitalist.
A person who uses own money for purposes of other people is a philanthropist.
A person who uses money of other people for own purposes is a thief.
A person who uses money of other people for purposes of other people is a socialist.

Remind him he was saying that joke himself when he was young and ask him if he is a thief or a socialist today. Chances are you'll not get killed ;-)
Antek_Stalich   
15 Jun 2011
Language / Ukrainian language similar to Polish? [236]

isn't it unique in Europe to have so many people able to use both languages interchangably?

Belgium? ;-)
Delph, I am sure I could think of several European countries or regions like that, only my mind does not work well today. How about Tirol in Italy, where people speak both German and Italian fluently everyday? I was there, I know, been working for tips at the petrol station of my Tirolese cousin uncle as a teen ;-)

I do not think a Ukrainian is bilingual. The Ukrainian speaks either Russian or Ukrainian or a mix.

What about Polish Silesia where a Silesian speaks pure Polish outdoor and pure Silesian indoor? ;) What about Beskyd highlander who speaks pure Czech at work, pure Polish after crossing the border with Poland, and his local lingo while drinking beer with neighbours?
Antek_Stalich   
15 Jun 2011
Language / Czech language sounds like baby talk to most Poles. Similarities? [222]

jwojcie, if you had been travelling to the Czech Republic often and used or at least listened to Czech, you'd discover the language is not funny at all. It is just another language. No-one can decree the kind of sense of humour, yet I could describe yours as quite childish.

In the general terms, neighbouring nations, those who had some trouble with each other in the past but not really bloody history behind, typically jeer at each other, saying very specific type of jokes. Take Norway and Sweden. Sweden let Norway create their own country peacefully in 1905, Norway being a Swedish province before. So Swedes and Norwegian let is happen easy and today they say such a joke:

Swede on Norwegian joke:
-- Do you know why the Norwegian look out their windows during thunderstorm? Because they think photographs are taken with flashlight! Ha ha ha!

A Norwegian on Swedish joke:
-- Do you know why the Swedish look out their windows during thunderstorm? Because they think photographs are taken with flashlight! Ha ha ha!

This is about the same sense of humour as you display, jwojcie. The joke as above is believed to be VERY funny.
----------
The modern Czech and the Nynorsk (the new Norwegian language) share similar history. The Bokmaal Norwegian (Literary Norwegian, the traditional language) is in fact Danish made easy to speak by Norwegians. In the beginning of 20th c., Norwegian revivalists thought it would be a good idea to create a new language to get rid of the unwanted past. Therefore, they did the work exactly as the Czech revivalist had done, by picking up words from any goddam small fjord where local dialect was spoken. As the result, Nynorsk is about one of the funniest languages because -- by comparison -- it would sound as Polish would sound if Polish was made ONLY from dialects: Mazovian, Warmian, Silesian, Greater Polish, Pomeranian, Kashubian, etc. etc. and only from countryside dialects. You would lol'led until you die if you heard something like that. However, Norwegians did it and started teaching school children Nynorsk. Result? Educated Norwegian speak Bokmaal, local people speak their local dialects, and Nynorsk was formally abandoned from teaching not so long time ago. Nothing strange. Bokmaal name for Norway is 'Norge". Nynorsk word for the same is... Noreg.

So, yes, Czech may sound funny to you as a collection of local dialects and ANCIENT Slavic words. If you laugh at laska, you indeed should perceive the word łaska funny, too. (mafketis, of course you are right, Czech was not taken from Mars).