Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]

Avalon:
you can walk into a pub or restaurant and see older couples sat side by side and if you watch carefully, they hardly speak to each other. The relationship has become more of a "habit" than love. They have spent so many Years together that communication has almost become "telepathic", they know what and when each other want to eat or drink, they have totally different interests, but, they are scared of trying to form a new relationship and they still enjoy each others company. So the irritating habits that they have formed over the years are ignored, the woman is houseproud and the man is a slob.

Couldn't they be not speaking because they may be enjoying the food, further, I think it is a positive sign they are in there together rather than the misses off at bingo and a dirty old man at the go go bar. My wife and I have different interests but we still enjoy eachothers company. If any of you are single and hope to marry the perfect spouce better keep dreaming. They will have plenty of faults as will you that both of you will have to work through. That is the self sacrifice part of the marriage.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


And I partly agree with you, if someone marries only for love than it will fail . Love is not eternal. It expands and contracts like a balloon. When it is full you can float above all the crap below you but withut a care in the world but when a little air seeps out things can look a little brighter looking somewhere else.

Duty and self sacrifice is an integral part of a succesful marriage.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]

f stop


It is hard to answer that but I in my heart would probably have to say no. My wife and I were together 7 years before geeting married. Our relationship did survive 3 years of college and long distance (I went to school in Florida- she went to Rhode Island) but we were truly in love and that was the easy part. After getting married the ups and downs the economic swings, the 4 kids...I can honestly say if thier wasn't any retribution I could have strayed and if I did so the relationship would have ended. My wife wouldn't have tolerated it.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]

No marriage will be perfect as no individual is. By succeed I meant unending.

The failure of marriages can I believe be directly linked to the lack of religion in todays society. No stigma. No consequences. No one cares. We are a selfish generation believing in an individuals freedoms over the whole. Marriages are doomed from the outset if people going into do not understand what it takes to have a succesful marriage. What is the point of the oath till death do us part in sickness and in health, through richer or poorer....this basically says we will stick it out through the good and the bad and we will work it out. Those who don't are just weak. The mistake is not who they got married to...it is that they got married in the first place because they were not ready for the commitment.


Yes I am married to my wife for 20 years. we have been a couple for 27. We met when we were 15.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


It is impossible to say for certain but I believe a marriage shared through a religious ceremony is more likely to succeed because of the social stigma attatched with divorce. Marriage is a huge commitment and should not be entered into lightly. Civil divorce has destroyed the sanctity of marrage and has cheapened it.

Those individual who made a better choice the second time around may have made a better chioce the 1st time if they knew there was no get out of jail free card. Marriage is about sacrifice. Both parties sacrifice to make a better whole.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


Your proving my point if you were married (made the commitment to each other) without the possibility of civil disruption (divorce) you would have been more inclined to work it out. On a side note if you truly feel that way perhaps you did the right thing not getting married as you were not ready for the commitment in the first place.

Genealogy / Polish nationality? Which of the following (if any) determine being Polish. [231]


It is not that we want to be something else. It is that we are proud of where we came from. I mean if I could trace my roots back 300 years or more in America and my family grew up and was part of that interesting history you spoke of than perhaps I would be more inclined to say I am only American. My family is only second generation living in America. I still have relatives in Poland I keep in contact with. I can trace my families history much further in Poland than I can in the Usa. I teach my children where they came from. I don't want them to forget.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


Marriage is the commitment. All you have is a relationship without it. A marriage is permanent (or at least should be- civil law has destroyed what was once a permanent commitment) commitment or bond between two people. Granted in more archaic times this was not the case but at one time women were considered property as well- should we turn back the clock?

A relationship has no boundries accept those proposed by both parties and hopefully both will agree to them.

Today's society preaches not getting married too young- that one should establish oneself before getting married....this is a mistake. The younger you are the easier it is to adapt to any situation. The older you are the harder it will be to find someone compatable with you.

Genealogy / Mixed-Blood Poles in America (Do we count?) [118]


I consider myself half Polish and half Irish. America is a melting pot of many cultures. Because I didn't grow up on the family farm in Podbielko doesn't make my blood any less Polish. I do agree it is very important to learn about one's culture and I have strived to learn both about both my families history and Polish history. I would like to learn the language, it may have to wait as I must provide for my family first. I will try to visit with family over the next 2 years.

Genealogy / Mixed-Blood Poles in America (Do we count?) [118]

What does "Democracy in America" by Tocqueville have anything to do with the topic at hand??? I suppose if I was moving to another country I would learn the language but you missed the point. You don't have to speak the language to be Polish.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


If they get married, absolutely. Why? Cause they took an oath to do so. For richer or poorer, in sickness and health, till death do us part etc etc.... I have to admit the for richer or poorer part is the most difficult for most people today. Everything seems great when you are young and have no obligations but add a few kids, car payments, mortgage, and hell love seems to fly right out the window. I have been married to my wife for 20 years- half my life. We met freshman year of high school when we were 15. We have 4 children. We have arguements but we work it out. Marriage is a gift , a union of 2 souls to become one.


If unmarried no reason to. If married because they chose to get married (freedom of choice is a ***** sometimes isn't it).The problem with most people today is they don't understand what marriage is and take it entirely too lightly.


True but in some cases is also causes it. Divorce for example. If it wasn't so easy to get out of a marriage perhaps it wouldn't be treated by todays society as a joke.


Freedom of choice is a double edged sword. Too much freedom breeds selfishness.

Genealogy / Mixed-Blood Poles in America (Do we count?) [118]


In modern America this is simply not the case, unless you live in a densly populated Polish/American community it is hard to find Polish people to date. I think most Americans are spoiled and date whomever they found appealing to the eye regardless of race or ethnicity.


So I suppose if I move to China, I will suddenly become a bad driver and develop excellent math skills. Being Polish is in the genes. What does it mean to be a True Pole? Some on this site argue that Poland didn't exist at one point. Does this mean that if you can't trace your lineage prior to 1795 give or take your not a true Pole. Please.

Genealogy / Polish nationality? Which of the following (if any) determine being Polish. [231]


Thank you for the correction. I was referring to the bird on the Polish Falcon flag which I assumed was a Falcon. Oooops. And thank you for the information provided as most Polish flags I have seen were just white and red.


Yes . He was a member back starting in the 1930's. I still have the bayonets, he used to march in the parades with.


Funny you should say that because I have spoken to several of my cousins, whom were born and raised in Poland and they say I remind them of my second cousin ,Stefan, who is currently living in Poland. My father also says I often remind him of my grandfather in many ways.

I mean I am sure in many ways we are different being brought up in two totally different environments but you can't say I am not Polish because I can't speak the language. I mean what is the point of this site if we can't converse intelligently about our history and heredity and help each other to discover more about who and where we came from.

Genealogy / Polish nationality? Which of the following (if any) determine being Polish. [231]


Poland existed it was just occupied and controlled by three other countries. If it didn't exist Poland would not exist today. Poland is more than just its borders. I am currently living in the Us. but I am still proud of my heritage both on my father's (Polish) and my mother's side (Irish). Because my grandfather was born in Russian /occupied Poland that makes me Russian...I don't think so.


Well first of all it was against the law to do so. I am second generation American. I say American because I am an American citizen. Does that mean that my heritage is not Polish and Irish. Your heritage and history do not just fall off the map (excuse the pun) because you move somewhere else. My father at one point spoke Polish but I never learned. I wish to but it may prove to be difficult as my wife nor the rest of my immediate family don't either.


Curious to hear about some of the cons you are refering to especially the going down hill quickly part ?

I mean if it is not that great why live here?

I was also curious about your friend and his tattoo. Are you referring to the falcon on the Polish flag or the American fraternal order of Polish Falcons that my grandfather was a member of?

Genealogy / Valentine Stolarz, Anna Banas, Jacob Mastej, Francis Bil [30]

Hello,

Did your family eventually become citizens. If so there is an abundance of information on forms they had to fill out. The Petition for Naturalization and Declaration of intent are 2 documents that helped me a lot. Also I am not sure if your family is religious but if they were Catholic ...marriage certificates are also huge as most people didn't lie to thier priests and marriage certificates often included where both husband and wife were baptised (where they were born). My final bit of advice if you want to speed things up a bit you can hire a proffesional to do the work for you. This was invaluable to me because I don't speak Polish and most of the records are in Russian or German or others which a pro will translate for you with ease. If you need a reccomendation let me know.

Genealogy / Can't find on Ellis, not naturalized, never applied for SS, how can I trace him? [7]

Did he ever marry? If so the marriage certificate is a wonderful source of information. ( people generally didn't lie when providing information to the church, at least this has been my experience)

Genealogy / Are there other ways of finding records that exist further back than 1826? [22]

I will try the land records and see if that helps. grodzkie books have some land records in them sales and wills and the like but there wasn't much in there to help me. Hopefully I will have more luck with the land records.

I figured some records were destroyed in transit. Looters ,bandits, etc. but every year for centuries. Of course that is assuming the priests did there job correctly.

Thanks for the suggestions all. :)

Genealogy / Are there other ways of finding records that exist further back than 1826? [22]

Have one thank you very much and doing well. Have 4 beautiful healthy children and do not need the advice of some moron looking to belittle someone looking into thier family history.

Genealogy / Are there other ways of finding records that exist further back than 1826? [22]

Yeah I figured that. Just don't understand how the records were destroyed. I understand that buildings were destroyed during wartime but according to what I have read. The records were copied every year and sent to the vatican. I don't understand how centuries of records were lost...unless the vatican is holding out on the world. (God forbid) Oh well. I may have to start on my mothers side of the family (100 percent Irish).

Genealogy / Are there other ways of finding records that exist further back than 1826? [22]

Softsong
Thank you for the suggestion. I have looked at all death records from D: 1809-1862, 1864-1869, 1882-1897. the earliest death record I have is Florian Skibniewski died Dec 31. 1841. It does say they were living in Podbielko at the time.

Genealogy / Are there other ways of finding records that exist further back than 1826? [22]

The records exist they just don't contain any information about my family prior to 1826. My family seemed to avg 7-9 siblings per generation and seems weird that there is no records for births for close to 20 years.

The records listed are LDS records ordered throught the archive. Thank you very much for list.

Is it possible to gain access to the Russian archives?

Genealogy / Are there other ways of finding records that exist further back than 1826? [22]

All records I have found to date are from the Pultusk archives in the Stary Luboten area which was the proper Catholic parish. What bothers me is there is a large gap in the records from 1808 to 1826. Which suggests to me that they moved from a different area to that region. Unfortunately for me I have no idea from. I tried to check other parish records for neighboring areas but they don't exist for that time period, records checked in archives

STARY LUBOTYŃ Roman-Catholic parish records:
B: 1808-1862, 1864-1869, 1890-1898
M: 1808-1862, 1864-1869, 1884-1900
D: 1809-1862, 1864-1869, 1882-1897

as well as grodzkie books for the Ostrow MAzowiecka area (only 2 survived)

Genealogy / Are there other ways of finding records that exist further back than 1826? [22]

Sympathy no. Perhaps understanding from those who feel the same as I do when they are faced with the possible end of a journey. Certainly not feeble comments from a weak fool wishing to kick someone when they are down. Or perhaps maybe some honesty. I have looked for a long time and hoped I would be able to go back further. I understand I am lucky to have gone back as far as I have but I do not wish to give up. I still appreciate the luck though as I will need it.

Genealogy / What certificate is this?; birth certificate from the greek catholic church [63]

Thank you for the sites , I will definately look them over.

Genealogy / What certificate is this?; birth certificate from the greek catholic church [63]

Why is it so important to you whether your ancestors called themselves ethnic Poles, Germans or Russians? What difference does that make for your genealogical research?

Probably because several of my descendants were killed during the Russian occupation/partisian whatever you prefer. I have living cousins in Poland and the U.K. that have very biased views of both Germany and Russia. I personally do not but that probably is because I was not directly influenced by the war. It is funny I have one relative who hates the Russians understandably (her husband was killed by the Russians while they were hiding in the woods while they were looting thier farm) while her son has fond memories of the German soldiers who played with him when they temporarily seized thier farm and used it as a base camp.

It is not what my ancestors called themselves (they were Polish) It is when others call them German or Russian. AS I said guilty.

As for genealogical research it matters less, but I will let you know. Before I found this site and really became interested in tracing my heritage I consulted several Russian sites as well as 2 consulates as I know my Grandfather was born in Poland under the Russian partisian. They all directed me to look in Poland for the answers.

I was curious however about missiing records that could still be in Germany? Is there a site or place online where I could learn more about this subject. It seems my search is coming slowly to a close as the records just don't exist anymore.

Genealogy / What certificate is this?; birth certificate from the greek catholic church [63]

Why? I believe that to most people (in the west?) heritage is not really important.

Define in the west? Because I am proud of both my Polish and Iirish heritage. Don't know anyone who isn't.

[b]And honestly, what difference does it make whether your g-g-g-grandfather grew up in Poland, Germany or Russia, and whether he felt like a German, Russian or Pole? [/b]

I'm sorry what site did you sign up to chat on. I was under the impression this was Polish genealogy forum. Not that I or anyone else on this forum would disriminate against another heritage asking questions. IMHO

Some people here on PF take heritage, national pride and history way too serious, IMHO.

guilty

History tell us that although Poland may have been removed from the map temporarily (who makes the maps anyway...the people in power do) it never truly went away.

Genealogy / Missing/unknown letter in my great-grandmother's last name. Any ideas? [34]

Thanks for all the other suggestions. I will contact someone back in the states to look into the Naturalization records. My greatgranfather is listed as 'NA' in the earliest census reports I could find (Code for Naturalized).

If you know the state and county that your Greatgrandfather lived when he 1st came to the states or where you think he was living when naturalized, there are many records listed online that will assist you in finding the record. The only drawback is it will most likely cost you $15- $20.00 to obtain the record. If you need any assistance let me know as i have obtained my grandfathers record this way

Genealogy / Missing/unknown letter in my great-grandmother's last name. Any ideas? [34]

There are a few possibilities.
1. Was your grandfather an American citizen. If so you can look for his Declaration of Intent and Petition for Naturalization records. These records are a great source of information and are most probably more accurate as they were legal documents.

2. Was your grandfather married in the states? Was he christian/roman catholic? If so was he married in a Polish church? Even if the church wasn't Polish the records are also a great source of information. They often list where both husband and wife were baptised. Which is great for finding the town where your relatives were born.

good luck

Genealogy / Why Polish aren't white?? [272]

I have never experienced any racism other than black and white. I do not consider a person telling the occasional Polish joke a racist.