History / Today is the 1st of September (WWII start in Poland) [138]


The German unification indeed disrupted the second concert of Vienna system, in that sense that the Great European Powers of the day didn't have a playground anymore to fight their wars and it further complicated the already complicated balance of power kept in place by the concert system. It contributed indirectly indeed to the collapsing of 19th century politics in 1914, but only as one of many factors, therefore I wouldn't say that the GWOTTC started with the unification of Germany in 1871. There were too many other factors to point out this event as cause.

Edit: if one wants to point out this unification as cause, one can just as easily point out France under Napoleon 3 as cause - her entire politics were aimed at disrupting the balance of power, which originally was aimed at containing France anyway, and caused liaisons to form all over Europe, which eventually led the the system to collapse under its own weight.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

Off-Topic / PF - The Omnibus Edition [1502]


I can't say which from which nationality boobs are the best as I never have conversations with boobs.

Imo the best whoppers are the ones that are not too small and not too big and are nicely shaped. And you come across those everywhere.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

History / Today is the 1st of September (WWII start in Poland) [138]


And you think an American or British soldier wasn't shot if he refused to fight?

History / Today is the 1st of September (WWII start in Poland) [138]

@Bratwurst: Oh stop it. The Russians were part of the Allies until 1945/46 and as being so, they defeated the Nazis. So the Russians have every right to hold a "victory day".

@Zimmy: with over 20 million deaths and about 4 years of continuous fighting they did indeed bear the brunt of the Second World War (or the Third Phase).

>^..^<

M-G (remember that the Cold War started after 1945)

History / Today is the 1st of September (WWII start in Poland) [138]

Well, the Commies beat the Nazis, didn't they? The Russians, that is.

History / Today is the 1st of September (WWII start in Poland) [138]


That's why I added the conference of Helsinki of November 1990. That is namely where the peace treaty between Germany and the Allies finally was signed. There wasn't one signed in 1945.


Until 1945, the Soviet Union was considered an Ally too. After all, she fought Germany, didn't she? And after May 1945, she fought also Japan.


In a way you're right - Yugo was born out of the first phase of the GWOTTC and it was also one of the reasons 19th Century policies collapsed and descended into the enivitable war that had to follow. But others say there were too many other factors in play in the Yugo wars that they only loosely can be connected to the GWOTTC.

Other Historians (among them Fischer) contribute the GWOTTC to the coming into existence of Germany as a unified state and her two attempts to achieve hegemony, but I don't fully agree to that: the first phase could hardly be described as a German attempt to achieve hegemony; too much traditionalism, militarism and old style politics in a new environment involved to be just that - the third phase definitively can be described as that.


Actually we owe it to Markovic that the war didn't burst out already in the mid of the 80's. He wasn't a good president, but he managed very well in balancing on the edge of the ethnic powder keg that Yugo was. This also proves basically that the Yugo wars had de facto nothing to do with the breakdown of the East Bloc - if it weren't for Markovic' skills in keeping the country together, it would have perhaps burst open as soon as 1982, about one year after Tito's death. All that taken into account, I know the Serbs look upon Markovic as a loser, but he prevented what later on Milosevic couldn't prevent. Be it willfully or not willfully.

History / Today is the 1st of September (WWII start in Poland) [138]


In fact, the Great War Of The 20th Century as Historians tend to call it (or the 30-year war of the 20th Century) started on 28th of July 1914 and ended 15th of August 1945, or to be even more precise, November 1990 as there was never a peace treaty signed between the Allies and Nazi Germany. This took place at the Conference of Helsinki of November 1990. Ceremonial, yes, but it was the official end of the Second World War, the third phase of the Great War of the 20th Century.

First phase has become known as WW1, Second phase was the period of formation of new nations, several smaller wars being fought as part of the bigger conglomerate of instability caused by 19th Century politics. Therefore, Historians speak also of the "Long 19th Century, which started basically with the French Revolution in 1789 and ended with the outbreak of the Great War of the 20th Century in 1914.

The Cold War can be regarded as the Fourth phase, however, Historians still debate whether to include this or not. They do agree however, that the Cold War was created during the GWOTTC.

>^..^<

M-G (so perhaps we could all commemorate the 28th of July?)

History / Today is the 1st of September (WWII start in Poland) [138]


I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't referring with that line to Germany, but to Poland.

I can understand that Germans don't want to commemorate their defeat. And, like I said in an earlier post, NL doesn't commemorate the 10th of May or the 14th, but the 5th (actually it should be the sixth, but for some reason they thought the 5th was a more suitable date as it's nice and round) and at 20:00 hrs exactly on the evening of the 4th of May, we hold 3 mins silence for all the victims of WW2.

Does this answer your question? I hope so as I have to do some shopping now as you emptied out the kitchen once again. I thought I still had some pasta left. I was wrong.

;)


Grin, I used to hate going back to school as well, but in NL it's not the 1st of September but earlier, depending on which area you're in. And it's not such a huge event as in other countries...

History / Today is the 1st of September (WWII start in Poland) [138]

Well, we have in NL :) Only it's not because of his suicide, but because of our Queen.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

History / Today is the 1st of September (WWII start in Poland) [138]

Ah ok, the main answer that I wanted, I got: it's being commemorated on a yearly basis.


Well, last year the 20th anniversary of the first free elections was celebrated as I understood it, so I reckoned that this then would be some sort of "Liberation Day" as we have in NL on the 5th of May. That's why.

Thank you all, guys!

History / Today is the 1st of September (WWII start in Poland) [138]

I realise that. I was just wondering if, since it's such an important day in not only Polish History, but in World History as well, they commemorate it in any way; not only when it's an even number of years ago.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

History / Today is the 1st of September (WWII start in Poland) [138]


Well, it's not exactly a celebration, more a commemoration and it does make sense as on this date the trouble started for Poland after they finally were independent for 20 years. It's not gonna be a party, if you know what I mean.


Indeed. But at the moment itself when the Nazis were defeated, there must've been some form of relief. I don't know whether anybody at that specific time could've foreseen what was about to go down.

So, am I correct that the 4th of June is being celebrated as the Liberation-event in Poland?

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

History / Today is the 1st of September (WWII start in Poland) [138]

I appreciate that, but no commemoration whatsoever? I didn't mean celebration, don't get me wrong.

However, I have to say it makes sense that they commemorate the 1st of September as this was the day the shyte happened that eventually would last 50 years.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

History / Today is the 1st of September (WWII start in Poland) [138]

Ah ok. I was just wondering because in NL they don't commemorate the day that the Nazis invaded, the 10th of May, but the day we got liberated from them - I think the same in Belgium and France.

Is there actually a "Liberation Day" in Poland? I don't mean liberation of Communism, but the end of WW2?

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

History / Today is the 1st of September (WWII start in Poland) [138]

So it's a militairy event?

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

Life / Polish pride. PL stickers, flags and the white eagle! Where does our obsession come from? [79]

That's good, because some Polish films made in the era are considered among the best cinematography has to offer.

>^..^<

M-G (personally thinks Man of Marble from 1977 is a great movie)

Life / Polish pride. PL stickers, flags and the white eagle! Where does our obsession come from? [79]

Ah it's after 1945. So there is history up until 1945 and then a big black gap and things merrily continue in 1989?

>^..^<

M-G (weird)

Life / Polish pride. PL stickers, flags and the white eagle! Where does our obsession come from? [79]


What, no lessons on Joe Pilsudski?

>^..^<

M-G (surprised)

News / Weekend of carnage as 41 people lose their lives on Poland's roads [44]

You need a license to ride a bicycle?

>^..^<

M-G (?)

News / Weekend of carnage as 41 people lose their lives on Poland's roads [44]

I meant a bicycle, not a motorcycle. I do acknowledge that the word "bike" was somewhat confusing. Basically anything in or on which you move faster than you would be when walking are prohibited from operating when drunk or intoxicated in any other form.

>^..^<

M-G (that means also if you're stoned and riding on your bicycle and police grabs you, you're in trouble)

News / Weekend of carnage as 41 people lose their lives on Poland's roads [44]


Alfa Romeo drivers are considered the most anti-social drivers, at least in NL.

>^..^<

M-G (more than drivers of any other brand)

Life / Polish pride. PL stickers, flags and the white eagle! Where does our obsession come from? [79]


It's wearing off. When I first came here in Dubs, some 6,5 years ago I was actually surprised how many flags were flying in the neighbourhood where they found me a place to live. But now, you see this much less - although more ppl than previously talk about Irish identity as opposed to the EU and stuff like that.

But every now and then you come across an individual who's "100 per cent Oirish" and only speaks English because he "has to". And some I come across refuse to go to the North as they "don't want to exchange money in my own country". But most Irish I know don't have that as strongly anymore. I'm sure that in the 1930's it was different, but then again, Irish national pride was always more anti-British than anything else. Perhaps the Irish don't have these national sentiments that strongly, perhaps because there are more Irish living outside of Ireland than in Ireland herself. Proof of this lack of national sentiments imo could be that the only fascist movement Ireland has ever known, the Blueshirts, at the height of their strength never had more than a handful, perhaps a few hundred, followers.

Another reason could be that Ireland, except the last 15 years, always has been very poor - ppl moving away, daily struggle for survival had more priority than feeling proud of your country. Perhaps they weren't that proud of their country because it was so poor and perhaps ppl were instead of proud angry at the govt for not being able to make the Irish state a welfaring one befor the 1990's.

It's actually interesting to see as to why it was never that strong. Some say that as long as the Irish can go to their pubs and have a pint, everything is ok with them, which could explain the lack of willingness to demonstrate when the govt fcuks them over once again. And they would be certainly able to paralyse Dublin city if they would simply say they wouldn't take that Bullcrap the govt pours on them anymore and would strike. Last year two garages of Dublin Bus were on strike for a day or two. Already there were major problems.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

News / Weekend of carnage as 41 people lose their lives on Poland's roads [44]



Don't forget the Alfa Romeos :)

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

Life / Polish pride. PL stickers, flags and the white eagle! Where does our obsession come from? [79]


Best example would be Japan. Divided as hell, tribes constantly waging war on each other, but when an external threat ocurred, they immediately stopped all internal warfare, bound together and expelled the external threat. Once the threat was gone, they merrily continued with their internal wars.

>^..^<

M-G (Japan never has been conquered that much)

News / Weekend of carnage as 41 people lose their lives on Poland's roads [44]


Indeed. I've had three car accidents in my life - all three of them caused by sober drivers who didn't pay attention: one just drove up the main road and she didn't bother to look if sth was coming from the right and slammed into me on the right-hand side; the other one decided to overtake me just before a crossroads and then, without even fully having passed me, turned right, forcing me to go abrubtly towards the pedestrian path where I nearly hit a child before slamming into a wall and the last one crashed into me because he "saw" much too late that there was a traffic jam and cars had to stop - he smashed into my car from behind - darn, that was a brandnew Rover 75 totalled!

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

News / Weekend of carnage as 41 people lose their lives on Poland's roads [44]


I agree with that, but it seems that it's getting less as more and more ppl are getting aware that it's not acceptable to drink and drive. I personally think those DOE ads have helped in that as well as my, my, they are shocking! But still, 15 young ppl dead is too much, way too much.

And I don't understand it either as I believe that the penalties for drink and drive in Ireland are pretty severe. I mean, I do understand going to a pub for a pint, but if it's in the village, what's wrong with walking? Or getting a designated driver who stays sober? In NL they now have started a total war on drink and drive, it seems from the newspapers: you now get also official fines for riding a bike drunk. In fact, this has always been illegal in NL: if you're drunk, the only means of transportation that are legal are either your own two legs or a sober driver. Riding a bike, moped or anything that moves faster than when you walk, is illegal to operate when being drunk.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

Life / Polish pride. PL stickers, flags and the white eagle! Where does our obsession come from? [79]


Well, you must not forget that Ireland has been independent now for over 80 years and as I mentioned, over time it will slowly, but surely fade away into the folkloristic corner. But I live in Ireland myself and I can tell it's faded pretty much, but you still get this national pride, albeit mildly and mainly folkloristic. However, I noticed that they go looking more for, for example Americans of Irish descent than other ppls do, or they like Australians a lot as they say they are mostly of Irish descent and the Australian accent is supposed to be derived from the Irish accent.

In short, in Ireland it's definitively more than in the Netherlands, where I am originally from, but much less than in Poland, but that is mainly caused by the length of time they have been independent. After a while, most ppl just want to get on with their lives and just try to be as successful as they can be.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

News / Weekend of carnage as 41 people lose their lives on Poland's roads [44]

In Ireland it's also a problem; a few years ago, about 1 in 3 drivers during the weekend were above the legal limit when stopped - but they found a way to make it socially unacceptable as far as it wasn't yet: they show truly shocking (and I mean truly shocking - after seeing a couple of them, they made me shiver and I really didn't feel good) govt msgs on the TV and it seems they are making the effect desired. This is one of them:

youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BYOl4AgsnD4

Drinking and driving should be regarded as a crime and if you kill sb in an accident when drunk behind the wheel, you're nothing less than a premeditated murderer and should go to jail for at least 10 to 20 years.

>^..^<

M-G (never drinks and drives and never has)

Life / Polish pride. PL stickers, flags and the white eagle! Where does our obsession come from? [79]

It will disappear, though. It always does. Not fully, it will make a transition into the folkoristic area and ppl will emerge that will frown or laugh upon it, but that takes time, usually 2 or 3 generation. And the Scots? They wear skirts as a protest :))))

>^..^<

M-G (tiens - more coffee is needed)