Love / Are all women in Warsaw opposed to short term friendship? [5]

You are a man looking for platonic friendship with Warsaw women, is that correct? I'm not sure I understand your post.

UK, Ireland / Is there actually anything cheaper in Poland than in UK? [51]


It won't be news to you that Wrocław has that franchise too, a car stopped at the exit of a side road then turned right and accelerated on to the crossing I was using without even looking where he was going and he just missed my legs by centimetres as I leapt out of the way. Fairly often, I come across signs on the road here of smashes all over the place. Yesterday a woman stopped to let me cross on a zebra, and it's so unusual to get a courtesy that I was tempted to buy her flowers from the kiosk nearby... My luck continued today and a woman bashed into me at the checkout in Biedronka and actually apologised, of course I apologised to her too as is the English way, but it's the first time I can remember a mature Polish person accepting blame. Of course, had I probed a bit, I might've discovered she was from the States or Germany and just knew the Polish for 'sorry'...

Real Estate / Astounded by the poor value of residential property here in Wroclaw [92]


I'm not so sure it's


in Wroc, either. What is small is the chance of securing a decent flat at a sensible rent, especially anywhere near TVP Wrocław, etc. Some of the less pretty inner city high rises are available but when you get there to view you find the photos were taken years ago and the interior has deteriorated greatly. You also find the landlord has failed to mention people are still living there and their leaving date is a month or two in the future. One I went to, the family were being evicted the following Saturday and it was very awkward to say the least to walk around their home like a vulture. Obviously I didn't take it.

On the subject of hardship, surprisingly for me, some market stall holders I spoke to today told me the last 2 years has seen too much competition and a drop in their incomes.

UK, Ireland / Is there actually anything cheaper in Poland than in UK? [51]


Two words uttered quietly but firmly through the closed door may have the desired repellent effect: Jimmy Savile


I've been told they're very bad and worse than London's. Of course, the worst are Moscow's, as is legendary.

UK, Ireland / Is there actually anything cheaper in Poland than in UK? [51]


Thanks, I didn't realise that. I very much doubt the landlords I have met would pay for my TV licence but I can ask! :o)

In the UK, it is the responsibility of the tenant. And they know who has a licence because each address is on a database. They send an employee of the BBC or a sub-contractor to the address and if they can prove a TV is being used for watching live TV then there's a large court fine for the tenant to pay. I think it's GBP1000 sometimes (5500zł)


The trains are very slow, so you're obviously not talking about that. And Warsaw is full of jams, so you don't mean by road. What do you mean, please?

UK, Ireland / Is there actually anything cheaper in Poland than in UK? [51]


So was I after I recently discovered there was a fee, but somebody else contradicted that, I think it was on this forum somewhere, and said I have to pay separately as not all cable companies collect it.


Try to get as many leafy green vegetables (washed thoroughly) into your diet as possible, especially lightly steamed broccoli, it can do wonders for health and illness prevention.

UK, Ireland / Is there actually anything cheaper in Poland than in UK? [51]


I agree, most of the veg is a bit cheaper than England but the only veg that is significantly cheaper (to my knowledge) is beetroot and potatoes. Additionally, at times prices here match or exceed the price of the same vegetable in Britain at that time of year (eg cauliflower, broccoli, courgettes).

BUT in terms of Polish wages, most food is much more expensive than in the UK for average local employees.

UK, Ireland / Is there actually anything cheaper in Poland than in UK? [51]


I agree, most of the veg is cheaper than England but the only veg that is significantly cheaper (to my klnowledge) is beetroot and potatoes. Additionally, at times prices here match or exceed the price of the same vegetable in Britain at that time of year (eg cauliflower, broccoli, courgettes).

Real Estate / Astounded by the poor value of residential property here in Wroclaw [92]

Monia, which part of Wrocław do you live in? Don't give me a street, just a district.

Because I can tell you for sure there are a great many (page after page with many on each page) of flats available to rent at about 2500PLN to 5000PLN when I check. If there were no tenants, they would not be asking that price and they would ask a lot less just to cover the monthly service charges. The fact that so many landlords keep their prices in that zone tells you all you need to know about the rental market here. Don't come at me with percentages -- the fact is there are tenants for expensive flats and so there are plenty of expensive flats on offer. You don't get one without the other -- supply and demand. Now, you're not going to tell me that students are clubbing together and renting expensive flats I hope :o)

Believe me -- there are plenty of tenants chasing cheap flats and an adequate supply of tenants for the more expensive flats or they'd not be that price. Goodnight, and thanks for the debate.

Real Estate / Astounded by the poor value of residential property here in Wroclaw [92]

I'm not on a waiting list -- the agents are simply not interested in people on my budget because applicants on my budget are 10 a penny.

There are a lot of flats listed in the higher price brackets. There is therefore a thriving rental market or the prices wouldn't be so high because they'd need to tempt tenants at lower prices! Penny dropped yet? Good. Goodnight, and please don't argue with someone who has done the legwork on the ground here for some months now.

UK, Ireland / Is there actually anything cheaper in Poland than in UK? [51]


Yes, that is what I said as I had heard about it. It is probably much less than the UK's, I know.

Real Estate / Astounded by the poor value of residential property here in Wroclaw [92]

Yes, I have seen that to be true -- I doubt it makes up the whole rental market, however.

I have been told that the flats at prices similar to the UK depend on dual working couples funding the rent and that singles in flats, even 1-bed flats, are very rare for that reason.

Real Estate / Astounded by the poor value of residential property here in Wroclaw [92]


You ain't kidding, I'm still reeling from the shock of what's on offer for the money.


Is that why there's such a thriving rental market that agents don't even want to put me on their mailing list unless I want to rent higher end flats. Is that why most are let within a day or two if they're even remotely "cheap"? Is all this because Poles own and don't rent? Don't be silly.

UK, Ireland / Is there actually anything cheaper in Poland than in UK? [51]


A good size flat is not much more in many parts of the UK, sure. A shoebox flat is of course cheaper in Wroclaw, obviously.

All flats are much more expensive in Wrocław in real terms if based on local wages as wages in Wroclaw are much lower and yet rents are not.

Fruit such as apples and oranges are more expensive in the UK, and macaron/pasta usually is too. There are food items that are more expensive in the UK, but again not in relation to wages and real terms based on salaries.

In my experience, a typical grocery shop in Poland is not that much cheaper than a Briton pays. Yet a Pole's wages are much lower and their rents are not cheap and if they rent a decent-sized flat then their rent is nearly the same as in some UK cities. Of course, Britons have to pay council tax (a local tax for services such as garbage collection, street lights, libraries, schools, emergency services, street cleaning, and keeping a lot of bureacrats in easy and well paid jobs) each year of around a thousand pounds, sometimes more and as far as I know that is included in monthly service charges for Polish flats or is perhaps not chargeable at all in some cities (although that will perhaps change!).

UK, Ireland / What does English sound like to the Poles? [30]


Maybe you met some chav accented specimens -- speak with a Pole from a normal background and the accent sounds similar to Italian crossed with Dutch. And their non (meaning yeah) sounds French, in fact.

UK, Ireland / Polish is Britain's second language, says UK report [52]

Thread already started https://polishforums.com/uk-ireland/britain-second-language-says-report-64387/

Real Estate / Astounded by the poor value of residential property here in Wroclaw [92]


Small flats are around 1300, about double the size are 2000, but for a good road you're looking at 2500 to 3000 for about 80m2. For a flat of a comfortable size, you are looking at quite a bit more if a reasonable road.

A Pole I spoke to today told me prices or property are up x3 since Poland joined the EU. I assume wages are too then? Oh, wait...

Real Estate / Astounded by the poor value of residential property here in Wroclaw [92]


I don't, I'm saying that 1300PLN (in Wrocław) gets a tenant very little. For not much more I could have a better one-bed in the UK. What I was saying was that for a decent bit of space to live, which of course I would like, the rents are not much less than provincial Britain (in some of the UK, the rents are actually lower of course). We Brits are used to small flats and yet the sizes here are still small for the money in the main (not every time, with the odd exception snapped up in hours of course). Am I right in thinking Americans are used to quite large apartments? If so, they would see the 1300zł a month flat as very claustrophobic, and probably not much larger than some American homes' walk-in closets.

The 2000zł flats would probably still get called "compact". It's not until someone pays quite a lot that the sizes are decent. Try GBP750 a month for example. 88m2 for 4000zł a month seems to be about average for an acceptable size in a popular area:

I think my 2500zł a month is fairly optimistic, you can easily double that for a proper size flat in a decent street to 5000żl a month - or GBP1100 a month excluding service charges!


As for the four bedroom house with a garden, they are from about GBP180K in the good parts of Wrocław. If you're very lucky, sometimes less but not much. Most of them at that price are still nothing so great. Something probably matching US standards of size, you're looking at more like GBP400K. Pretty ordinary 154m2 house, but GBP180K. How are they affordable on Polish wages?


You ain't kidding. They are exactly that.


In the main, very true. Cheap potatoes, beer and vodka seem to be the main advantages. OK, I know that's enough for some!

Real Estate / Astounded by the poor value of residential property here in Wroclaw [92]


Thanks for posting, yes I can't understand it either.

As for the rental market -- lots of Poles here tell me half their wage goes on a flat. That seems to be one of the best case scenarios, judging from the rents I have found here. Seems a person really needs 2000PLN a month EXCLUDING monthly service charges and other bills, to get anything remotely acceptable size and area wise.

I have an email from a letting agent today, and once she heard my budget of 1300 excluding service charges she said Ok so probably I could not help you, sorry. Best regards,

What does 1300 get you, typically, in Wroclaw? Very little. The few at that price that are not too bad are snapped up in a day. Understandably!! But they're always small and always popular nevertheless.

For any Brit coming to Wroc who wants a flat that isn't obviously tiny -- budget for about 2000PLN to 2500PLN a month in rent plus about 500-800PLN for other bills such as service charges and utilties. (At current exchange rates, that's GBP500 approx plus GBP200 approx. If the pound continues to fall as some say it might, you can add a hundred or a few hundred quid to those estimates.)

I've no work here unfortunately, but I suppose if I was a Brit working for an international firm paying good wages, it would be manageable. What the typical less fortunate locals do is a total mystery to me. Flash cars and smart flats are occupied all around -- but I just don't know how they afford it on their wages. They must be very lucky or very hard workers.

Real Estate / Astounded by the poor value of residential property here in Wroclaw [92]

I never thought I'd say this -- some parts of Britain look like good value by comparison! I can get a 3-room (2-bed) for not much more than here in Wroc in the East Midlands and some parts of Essex and Herts!!!


Maybe I'm tired, but I can't see why you think I said weekly. 1300zł plus monthly admin/service charges of 500zł here, seems to be the average. Occasionally, the monthly service charge is 400 or 350, but that's by no means the norm.

A flat that is not much bigger than one normal sized room split into a bathroom and bedroom, for 1800 a month? When most Poles are lucky to earn 2500 a month?! WTF?!

Here's just a random example of a 3-room in Wroc - there are plenty of them. It's about ninety thousand pounds!! (over 400,000PLN)

For another ten or twenty thousand quid, you've got a reasonable 3-room flat in towns within an hour by train of London!!!

See this in Chelmsford, and there are properties at that price regularly. Leases are not necessarily short. (GBP103K)



I mean, huh? GBP90K for a 3-room in Wrocław where the wages are for most people only 1/4 or 1/3 of Chelmsford's?

And yeah, that's quite a good part of Chelmsford, it's not dumpsville.

Australia / I am moving back to Poland - to live from Australia. Is it a good idea? [29]


Sorry to read that you lost your mum. FWIW bereavement experts do say a grieving person shouldn't make big decisions about their life soon after a major bereavement. But, whatever you decide to do, I hope all goes well for you.

Real Estate / The current property boom in Poland is a bubble [342]


Because of the risk of inflation?

Real Estate / The current property boom in Poland is a bubble [342]


I should say I base that on what Wroclaw Boy posted the other day about a house near Partynice. I could be wrong of course, I could be way, way out. Perhaps for flats, it's almost half what they are now and for houses perhaps 60% less than now. Adjusting for inflation, however, I ain't got a clue. I should add that unlike perhaps some of the posters on this thread, I am in no way a trained economist or property professional -- so take my remarks with a pinch of salt :o)

Anyone able to translate or give a brief transcript of the report Milky posted and say who it was with that pessimistic analysis? thanks

Real Estate / The current property boom in Poland is a bubble [342]


Roughly a third of what they are now.

Anyone able to translate or give a brief transcript of the report and say who it was with that pessimistic analysis? thanks

UK, Ireland / How might Britain`s withdrawal from EU affect Poles there and here? [474]


I say! Steady on, old chap, you'll frighten the horses!

UK, Ireland / How might Britain`s withdrawal from EU affect Poles there and here? [474]

This article from 2011 suggests there are 1 million Poles in the UK. There were officially 75000 in 2003 and over 500,000 by 2008, estimates were then put at 700,000 by PolishLondoner in 2010.

guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/25/polish-migrants-britain-jobs

I would be very surprised if the UK asked Poles to leave if the UK left the EU.

Sadly, I don't think the UK will leave the EU -- it's just political noise to negotiate a better deal, most probably. I think the Brits signed up to a common market when they voted yes in the 70s, and what they now have is a strong element of government from continental Europe which is not what was voted for. If there's a genuine referendum and Britons vote to remain in the EU then fair enough. Otherwise, the UK should leave. I imagine that the vote will be for the UK to stay in, however, which I'd find disappointing.

UK, Ireland / How might Britain`s withdrawal from EU affect Poles there and here? [474]

As it says figures are in millions just above that table, I read it as 124 million, 713 thousand :D

Just found this website, it perhaps debunks some of the myths about why the UK should not leave the EU
betteroffout.net/the-case/10-eu-myths-about-withdrawl

UK, Ireland / How might Britain`s withdrawal from EU affect Poles there and here? [474]

I must be reading this wrong then, because it says it's just GBP124m annually
fullfact.org/factchecks/uk_trade_with_the_eurozone-3106

Please take a look at let me know what they're saying as it seems very low.