Work / Salary for a senior software engineer in Poland [195]

@kp62103

If you're making 12K in India, you will probably need to make 20K or more in Poland to lead a similar lifestyle. The cost of living for you and your wife will be substantially more than in India, where you now enjoy a home court advantage, and substantially more than a Polish couple, who know how to live more cheaply in their own country and have an extensive network of friends and family. Then you have to take the cost of your relocation into account: travel, visas and residence permits, including the cost of trips back home to India.

Generally, it makes little sense for Indians to come to Poland when there are so many better opportunities in richer countries. I would concentrate on exploring those options, and use my network of real-life contacts rather than internet sites and recruiters. The best jobs are advertised almost entirely by word of mouth, and the internet and recruiters get the table scraps.

Work / Is there anybody who work for Atos in Bydgoszcz as a foreigner? [32]

@rajeshk

You can expect whatever you want, but you won't know until you negotiate with them. Who knows? Maybe you have a skill set that they are willing to pay good money for.

We can only make vague guesses based on our limited pool of friends and acquaintances who work in the field. No one here can know all the particulars of your case, and of the company you are applying to. If you are afraid to ask them yourself, then you probably shouldn't be seeking to work with them.

Work / English/finance career northern Poland [7]

@Mark831

By far the best option would to get hired by an Irish company or one based in another western European country and apply for a transfer to their operations in Poland at western wages. By far the worst option is to show up on Poland without a job. In that case, the best you could find is some lousy support center job that won't come close to covering the costs of the lifestyle you seek. In any case, it would be rather foolish to move to Poland without a good job lined up already.

The main problem with working in Poland is not so much the low wages, but the abysmally low savings potential. You might be reconciled with the former, but it is the latter that will soon take the wind out of your sails. Your savings at retirement will be a lot higher if you were to stay in Ireland than if you came to Poland to work for Polish wages, and the opportunity cost would be excruciatingly painful. You say that you are not looking to be rich, but obviously you are not looking to be poor, either.

As your planning is in the early stages, you have time to learn the language and build up a network of real-world contacts that can help you find a good position, as well as to climb the ladder a bit at a western company so that you are more easily considered as a potential candidate for a transfer.

Most moves like this fail miserably because of the huge gap in family earning and savings potential, as well as social isolation on the part of the non-Polish spouse due to lack of language proficiency. Proximity to in-laws is another reason. You don't want to have to be dependent on them at any cost.

Can it be done? Yes. But it is going to take some serious preparation. Otherwise, the sacrifice will be prohibitively too great to endure.

Study / Student looking for an internship in Poland [5]

@ClaraAniela

Good luck! I hope you find something nice and interesting.

Travel / Footwear in January (Krakow, Poland)? [8]


Only in Białystok! Lighter footwear helps when you are running away from the polar bears!

Travel / Footwear in January (Krakow, Poland)? [8]

@Louisp91

Hiking boots would indeed be best. Waterproof them, because there can be lots of snow and slush.

Study / Student looking for an internship in Poland [5]


There is a mistake in my post above. It should read, "Never agree to do an UNPAID internship at a private for-profit company." A paid internship is OK. Sorry.

Study / Student looking for an internship in Poland [5]

@ClaraAniela

First of all, you do realize that finding an internship in Poland can be quite a challenge for a Pole, never mind a foreigner. Most internships are either unpaid or very, very poorly paid.

Never agree to do an internship at a private for-profit company. It is downright immoral to give your services away without fair compensation. Such internships also do very little to improve your worth on the job market. It's like writing "STUPID SUCKER" in big red letters all over your CV. You would be better off just staying in Poland for the summer and studying the language or meeting people. After all, you are the one that is paying, so why should you spend your time working for someone who is unethically exploiting you and giving you nothing in return.

Unpaid internships at non-profit organizations are essentially volunteerships. They can improve your worth on the job market. Unfortunately, you have to cover all your living expenses yourself.

If you have the choice between an unpaid internship in Poland and a paid internship elsewhere, take the paid internship. If you can't get a paid internship, then volunteer with a non-profit organization whose values and goals you share. Or just spend the summer in Poland on your own dime and learn Polish to your hearts content.

The best way to find quality internships is by asking professors at your school. The other way is to apply with this organization or others like it:

aiesec.org/students/intern-abroad/

Another option is to volunteer with EVS:

europa.eu/youth/EU/voluntary-activities/european-voluntary-service_en

Competition for good paid internships is fierce, especially in your field. Or, better yet, finding a real job for the summer, which is going to be a lot easier to do in France than in Poland.

Work / I want to live and work in Poland in 3 years. I'm from Québec, Canada. [16]

@Aksh30

20K gross a month will give you about 14K net a month, maybe a little more because you have dependents. At the beginning of the year, you will get more in your monthly paycheck, but that will decrease over the course of the year as you go up into higher tax brackets.

14k a month is more than enough for a couple and school age child. Your biggest expense will probably school tuition for the child. That can be very expensive at a good private English medium school, about 5000 PLN a month in Warsaw, and I expect the same in Kraków, as well. Unfortunately, I don't know anything about the school situation there, but if it's like Warsaw or Wrocław, there are good international schools, which are rather expensive, and then there are lower quality schools that pretend to be international schools. You have to be careful and ask around so that you get the best for your child. Best to ask colleagues for advice.

A basic, no frills two bedroom apartment will cost you about 2500 to 3000 PLN a month: rent, administration fees and utility bills included. Make sure to get it checked out by an OLDER experienced Polish colleague or friend. They will know what to look for. For example, bad windows can cost you a lot of money because it will cost you more to heat your apartment. A small kitchen can also be a major problem. You'll also want to be close to tram stops as well as to your place of work and your child's school. Commuting can be nasty in the winter, especially if you have to wait at multiple tram stops. Beware of apartments that are cheaper than the going rate. They often have MAJOR problems or are inconvenient in terms of public transportation. An OLDER experienced Polish colleague will know. With your pay, you could afford to rent something more comfortable. Rent from AirBnB for the first month or so, and take your time checking out apartments, especially if you plan to spend longer than a year in Poland.

Food and household expenses, public transportation cards, internet and phone will come to about 1500-2000 PLN a month. Less if your wife cooks meals at home from scratch using Polish ingredients. More if you eat out a lot or buy a lot of snacks, lunches and drinks away from home, or if you consume a lot of foreign or convenience foods (this can cost you a lot if your child is a teenager).

Poles eat mostly chicken and pork, with some occasional bland fish and turkey thrown in for variety. Lamb, in particular, is quite expensive, as is beef and seafood. Summer vegetables can be very expensive out of season. There are internet stores that sell foreign ingredients and spices. There are no ethnic neighborhoods with ethnic supermarkets, just a few scattered small shops with a very limited selection of mostly non-perishable food items.

So that is about 9000 to 10000 PLN for basic living expenses and education for a basic lifestyle. A car is not necessary if you choose the location of your apartment well. Public transportation in Kraków is rather good, and serves all parts of the city that are worth visiting.

The rest you can spend on entertainment, travel and occasional expenses like clothing. I'm guessing you are from India, Pakistan or Bangladesh. If that is the case, then entertainment is going to be important to keep your wife from going crazy. While there are a good number of professionals from the subcontinent in Kraków, by far the bulk are single, younger males without families who word a year or two and then leave for home or for greener pastures, so it will be difficult for your wife to find suitable female company, or any company at all if she does not speak English well. Polish lessons would be a good idea if you are staying for more than a couple years, for her, your child and yourself. You have to keep her occupied and satisfied or she may want to return to your home country, either for visits or for good. While you are making a lot by Polish standards, you will find frequent trips to and from your home country rather expensive.

You'll be able to live a comfortable middle class lifestyle without any problems, at least by Polish standards. However, substantial savings are probably not possible because of the expense of educating your child. Savings potential is the main problem with working in Poland, especially for people who have a family with school-age children. Putting your child in a mixed Polish/English medium school is an option if you plan to stay in Poland for several years. That can bring down the cost a bit. Ask your colleagues. It probably doesn't make sense if you are staying only a year or two, though.

Also, if your company is not paying for your relocation fees to and from Poland, then you will also have to deduct that from your monthly paycheck as well. It's often overlooked by people when they decide whether coming to Poland is worth it.

Law / I was fined for not having a tram ticket in Poland. How does this affect me? [68]

Just pay the fine and penalty and be thankful you didn't ride the tram without a ticket in a more enlightened country like Singapore:

youtube.com/watch?v=eqACireM5XI

Food / Authentic Polish bread recipes [2]

@annemarieg

The typical bread is a sourdough rye bread with about 35 to 50% wheat, though 100 rye breads are common, too. Type in "polish sourdough rye bread recipe" into google images, pick a picture that looks appealing to you, and you should have the recipe.

Sourdough takes some getting used to, and rye even more so. Best start with a wheat sourdough recipe, and then gradually increase the percentage of rye flour every time you make it until you get the taste and texture you want. Also, cooler first fermentation temps for long periods give a better loaf, like RT 2 hours, then overnight or even 24 hours in the fridge. The hardest thing compared to wheat breads is forming loaves that don't spread. It's much easier to bake in a form or pan, or to make buns instead until you get the hang of working with rye dough. It's also hard to resist the temptation to add to much flour. Rye doughs are rather sticky, and are supposed to be that way.

As an example, a good Jewish Deli rye bread is pretty much identical. Not the "fluffy" kind you get in the bread aisle at the supermarket, but the firmer, stiffer kind you get at a good Jewish bakery.

Then you could start experimenting. A couple of tips; add a tablespoon of honey per loaf for a crisper, more golden crust and a moister crumb that keeps much longer. A half cup of mashed potatoes per loaf gives a nice chewy loaf. And add a spoon of malt powder per loaf for a richer and sweeter grain taste. You could add caraway seeds, sunflower seeds, or, my favorite, chopped walnuts.

Work / I want to live and work in Poland in 3 years. I'm from Québec, Canada. [16]

@annemarieg

The reason for the difference in opinions is easy to explain. Poland is a great country to live in IF, and only IF, you have plenty of cash. That means, you are earning enough or have enough savings or other income to have no financial worries. For example, as Expatinpoland said above, if you are earning western wages. Then you can take advantage of all that the nice cities in Poland have to offer.

If not, then Poland is a gray and miserable place. It is a comfortless place to live if you have to struggle. And the struggle is a lot harder than in richer countries like Canada. Opportunities are fewer, and competition is cutthroat.

You might say that that is the same all over the world, but it is much easier to be (relatively) poor and struggling in a richer country like Canada than a poorer country like Poland. There are a lot more opportunities to improve yourself and your lot.

Another group of people who find Poland a miserable place is those who came here expecting to strike it rich, and found out that things aren't so easy. They are bitter that their plans failed and that they lost money and valuable time. In other words, their unreasonable expectations were not fulfilled, and they were not prepared for the reality of living in a highly competitive environment. (See where I'm going with this????).

I'm an American Microbiologist that spent twelve fantastic years in Poland. I had a great time. I moved there when I was 42 because my lifetime savings goals had already been met, and I had two patents that were bringing in quite a comfortable income. When I went shopping, I never had to compare prices or penny-pinch. I had enough to be very generous, supporting students I "adopted" and helping them get into and through university in Poland and abroad. I collaborated with Polish biologists to get their work published and to apply for grants. And I helped a Polish drug company get its research program up and running. I goofed around with whatever caught my interest, much like what I guess you would like to do.

I think that your reason for going to Poland is basically sound and worthy. I think you can have a wonderful time in Poland, too, and do a lot of interesting things. However, you have some basic assumptions wrong, especially about the time-frame. I think it's great that you want to learn the language, too. But again, you have some faulty ideas about that, too. Studying a language in a university setting is basically a waste of time. I learned two languages completely on my own, including Polish.

If you want tips about seriously learning Polish, feel free to contact me, and I'll be glad to help. Just hover you cursor over my name above and click on the little envelope to send a message. If you have problems, let me know and I'll awns you a message first. I think you have to have a account here for a little while before you can send personal messages. I don't know the exact rules.

In any case, whatever you do, do not go to Poland with unrealistic expectations or with rose colored glasses on. And good luck with your studies.

News / Ethnic tensions erupt in Ełk, Poland [180]


It happens a lot. Check out Horst Wessel, for instance, for an excellent example of how far this can go.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horst_Wessel

Work / I want to live and work in Poland in 3 years. I'm from Québec, Canada. [16]

A common mistake is to focus on salary and cost of living.

Salary and cost of living are not important in and of themselves. The only number that is important is savings potential, or how much you are able to put in your bank account at the end of the month. That is going to be A LOT lower in Poland than in Canada. So much so, that moving to Poland for more than a year or two will not be at all attractive because of the savings you will be losing out on working in Canada. The opportunity cost is excruciatingly painful, which is why so many Poles are dying to work in richer countries, and practically no professionals from richer countries bother to even consider working in Poland. Once you do the math, you won't find it all that attractive.


No, you can't expect that. You'd be very lucky to get half that. Those wages are for very experienced developers and project managers, not for juniors. Wages for juniors in Europe in general are disappointingly very low. If this is what you are expecting, you will be sorely disappointed. You won't think that rents in Poland are cheap when you're making that little. The cost of living in Poland is very high compared to local wages. Much higher than in Canada. It's only low if, as Expatinpoland said above, you are being paid western wages by a western company, and that isn't going to happen unless you have abundant experience.

Sorry, but, with few exceptions, Poland is not at all an attractive job market for educated people from Canada. And will not be one of those exceptions for quite some time. In any case, much longer than you are currently projecting.

Why, by the way, are you interested in Poland, specifically? And not willing to stay in Canada?

Study / Undergraduate study (Aerospace Engineering) @ Warsaw University of Technology. [8]

@WUTprospect

If your goal is to find work in a rich country, then studying in Poland is not your best option. It is probably no better than studying at a good university in your own country. There are very few foreigners for whom studying in Poland makes sense, and there is nothing in your post that indicates that you are one of them.

There are no part-time jobs or any other form of financial aid available for foreign students in Poland. If you cannot afford to pay 100% of the cost of your studies and stay with your own money, then forget about studying in Poland. Make your plans on the very safe assumption that you will never earn a single penny during your stay in Poland.

As for jobs after you study, the chances are very low. You probably wouldn't want to, anyway, as wages are very low, and internships are often unpaid, even in technical fields. Poland does not have much of an aerospace industry, and precious little R&D. If you want to study aerospace engineering, then go to a country that spends a lot of money on aerospace R&D. R&D money is what makes a university a good place to study.

Yes, there are some other students from other countries at Polish universities. There isn't much of a "campus environment", at least nothing like there is in the United States, for example, which is where you should go if you are looking for a campus experience.

My advice is to either study at a good university in your own country, or in a richer country in Western Europe or Asia, or an English speaking country. Even though the upfront cost might be higher, the return on investment will probably be much higher in the end.

News / Polish Wigilia on UNESCO's world heritage list? [30]


Or he was running around between his many friends houses. When you assume, you, you make an A$$ of U and ME.

Food / Help identifying a herb for chicken soup [15]


That would be a good description of how dill is used, though. I suspect you confused the name with that of marjoram, which she also probably put in the soup. Dill is called "koperek" in Polish.

Food / Help identifying a herb for chicken soup [15]

@UHPD

Probably "majeranek", known as marjoram in English.

News / Polish Wigilia on UNESCO's world heritage list? [30]


You are aware that there a lot of people for whom Christmas is a day like any other, both in the UK and Poland?

News / Polish Wigilia on UNESCO's world heritage list? [30]


Considering the nature of the list, which is not meant to be comprehensive, not at all, precisely because the list already contains the French example, so it doesn't need another such similar example. Sounds more like a case of me-too-ism. And sorry, but I've personally experienced Christmas meals in four European countries myself, including Poland (twelve times), and can't say that the Polish one was any more "unique" than the German, Danish or British ones. Personally, I thought the Danish one was more endearing and charming, but that's personal opinion.

Sorry, but this sounds more like a common case of me-too-ism.

News / Polish Wigilia on UNESCO's world heritage list? [30]


That sentence would be just as true if you substituted the name of any other European country for the word "Poland". Not a particularly convincing argument.


Even less convincing.

Food / Polish Cheesecake Recipe [2]

There are tons of recipes in English for Polish cheesecake (sernik) on the internet. Search with Google.

The difference between American cheesecake and Polish cheesecake is that the former uses cream cheese, whereas the Polish version uses twaróg, a fined grained product similar to what is called farmer's cheese in the States. You can make a suitable substitute for twaróg by whirling farmer's cheese in the food processor until it is homogeneous. Or you can take REAL DAIRY cottage cheese, let it drain overnight in a cheesecloth lined colander until the whey comes out, and food process that.

Polish cheesecake is a lot drier and far less sweet than American cheesecake. Using the method above and the recipes on the net, you will get a decent Polish cheesecake. It might not be exactly the same as your grandmother's, though. To recreate her recipe will require experimentation and abundant experience with baking sweets to the point that you understand the theory behind each ingredient and how altering it affects the final taste and texture.

Genealogy / Looking for the Chamerski Family [3]

That is a job for a paid private investigator, not an internet forum. You'll find plenty of PIs that specialize in Polish matters in the Chicago phone book, and I'm sure the same is the case in any other place where Poles live.

I'm asking the administrator to delete this thread because it contains personal information on innocent third and fourth parties that could show up in a casual Google search.

Work / Is there anybody who work for Atos in Bydgoszcz as a foreigner? [32]

@rajeshk

Probably a lot less than you would like to earn. Atos are notoriously stingy. It is one of the main complaints about them on Glassdoor. Check for yourself.

If you're coming with a family or have plans of saving a substantial amount of money, then Poland is not the place for you. School tuition for school-age children is very high, and savings potential is very low.

Work / Average salary for software engineer in an IT company in Poland with a 7 year experience in Java/J2ee Eclipse. [15]

@Vivek89

It's very high if you are a junior engineer. It's very low if you have a lot of experience in SAP or HBase. Salaries in that range go to very experienced programmers with an exotic toolkit, experienced project managers, regional managers or mid-level administrators.

Work / Poland Business Help - I'm interested in investing in this country [28]

20000 won't even cover basic living expenses for six months, leaving less than zero with which to purchase the franchise or inventory, much less pay rent on the location and pay employees.

And a retail grocery outlet turning a profit in only three to six months is a pipe dream. Most never turn a profit at all, ever.

Work / Poland Business Help - I'm interested in investing in this country [28]


With 20000 PLN? Are you kidding? That wouldn't even come close to covering his living expenses until the store starts turning a profit.

Language / I was born in Poland and I cannot pronounce 'CZ' [35]

@mafketis

There's no problem with "ought to" in positive statements. In negatives and questions, though, it is usually replaced by "should" in the US, though you will hear "ought not" and "oughtn't", both with and without "to", occasionally, from some speakers. The most common negative to "ought" is, by far, "shouldn't".

Language / I was born in Poland and I cannot pronounce 'CZ' [35]

The difference across the Atlantic is that Americans are much less likely to use "oughtn't" at all, with or without "to". "Shouldn't" is far, far more common.

Language / I was born in Poland and I cannot pronounce 'CZ' [35]


That's exactly what I said. It's perfectly correct and standard on both sides of the Atlantic, as is the form with "to".


It's perfectly standard, too, and not a non-native mistake. Again, on both sides of the Atlantic.