UK, Ireland / Polish slave trader in the UK has sentence increased [56]


I believe they count the stats based on which country the enslaved are living in. But that also casts the host country, in this case Ireland, in a negative light because such things are going on under their nose and they either don't know about it or are failing to deal adequately with it. More recently there was another case where the Gardai noticed a man wandering around a fairly small town in what they considered to be a confused state. When they stopped to talk to him they discovered that he didn't really speak English and that lead to the uncovering of a group of about 20 people I think in some form of enforced labour situation.


That would depend very much on what part of London you're talking about. You wouldn't see much of that in the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea :) And of course it had nothing to do with Poles. But tarts plying their trade and enforced prostitution are two separate issues anyway.


Arranged marriage doesn't necessarily mean forced marriage. I've known plenty of Indian couples whose marriages were arranged and they're happy. Romas on the other hand certainly do force marriages upon very young girls, (just as much as the uneducated masses of India or Pakistan), often married off to a man many years older.

Agreed, criminality is not a Polish trait. Criminals exist everywhere but nations tend to 'specialise' for want of a better word in different forms of crime. Nigerians and Romanians for example have disproportionately high involvement in fraud.

UK, Ireland / Polish slave trader in the UK has sentence increased [56]

It probably is. There wouldn't be that many cases in a year in Ireland. I mentioned it here at the time but it was merged with another thread. I was a bit stunned that EU citizens were being trafficked into another EU country.

With reference to that Global Slavery Index, they're clearly a bona fide and reputable source of information who've conducted quite painstaking research, but there is a flaw in their methodology, in that they make certain extrapolations based on 'similar' countries, so for example, the slavery figures percentage wise of the population for Ireland and the UK are identical. Now they could well be making assumptions about Poland, based on a few of its neighbours where the trafficking thing is probably much worse.

UK, Ireland / Polish slave trader in the UK has sentence increased [56]

Now to be be fair, years ago in London, you would certainly see small ads pasted in phone boxes for 'massage' services as it was referred to. But the walls were by no means plastered in them.


No the Roma do it as well and any Roma living in Poland would account for figures relating to forced marriages such as they might be.


Well you're right there, because a few months ago there was a case in Ireland of a Polish guy convicted of human trafficking.

UK, Ireland / Polish slave trader in the UK has sentence increased [56]


The research was conducted via Gallup on the basis of interviews with 'more than 28,000 respondents in 52 languages' but when you add India into the stats it's 42,000 respondents. They make the valid point that it's a difficult situation to analyse because of the hidden nature of it and the fact that so many cases go undetected.

News / Opole townsfolk outraged by mayor's destruction of their song festival [137]


I suppose, off the top of my head, that would be The Daily Telegraph though there is probably too much of a conservative bias with a capital C as they are very much supporters of the Conservative party. But it's good in the sense that it's a broadsheet iwth decent journalism, and is a proper newspaper containing news not interspersed with rubbish about which celebrity flashed her knickers getting in or out of a taxi.

News / Opole townsfolk outraged by mayor's destruction of their song festival [137]

It's not my FT, I don't 'take' the FT to use a lovely piece of vintage English. I'm merely making a point to Polly. However now that you've raised the issue Gumi, could you name any British newspaper which you would consider to be reputable and which Polish one would you nominate?

News / Opole townsfolk outraged by mayor's destruction of their song festival [137]


It's not the role of a good newspaper to be an arbiter of morality but to report facts as factually as possible with minimal bias without seeking to influence its readers. The FT is considered to be one of the most reputable publications in that respect.

Language / "Cup of coffee" translated in Poland as Kubek kawy. Why not a mug? [70]


This was the case with England too. The 'potteries' existed long before the porcelain production and as with Poland it was produced in a part of the country where the local clay was abundant and most suitable. Poland, like England had its pottery guilds and master craftsmen in those early days. As to affordable, as Jon says, the masses pretty much all over Europe in those days were more likely to use wooden vessels than ceramic. But by the mid-Victorian period the English potteries were doing huge business partly due to the coming of the railways which allowed them to transport their wares all over the country in large amounts. I would imagine (more speculation!) that in your region of Poland and the places nearby, the pottery you refer to would have been seen in more prosperous homes, not rich but comfortably off farmers, small business men etc. but I don't think it's likely that it would have been found in most homes in Poland.

On the other hand in the UK there was a pottery in Staffordshire which was producing items which were particularly associated with the working classes and bottom rung of the middle classes, in particular the famous Staffordshire 'dog's which stood either side of the mantel shelf over the fireplace in thousands of humble homes around the country. They also produced satiricial figures which lampooned various political characters of the time or tribute pieces to national heroes. These wares were exclusively aimed at the lower orders of society. They would never have been found in upper class homes.


Oh Paulina, you'd try the patience of a saint. That's the very point I made originally. Class of those days works this way;

Royalty - everybody genuflect please.
Aristocracy, nobility, landed gentry - that's the upper class
Industrialists, big business owners, bankers etc - upper middle class
Professionals such as lawyers, doctors - middle class
White collar workers, bank clerk, teacher, skilled craftsmen such as stonemasons, master cabinet makers - lower middle class
Manual worker of any kind - working class

(In Poland though, you had that particular category of nobility who were noble but often without land or money). The upper and upper middle classes were the market for fine porcelain objects thoughout the the 18th century but in Poland, it remained that way as you missed out on the rapid industrialisation improved and social reforms which lead to increased prosperity among the lower ranks of the UK. This didn't happen in Poland so the spread of the use of china tea sets for everyday use in humble homes never took off in the way it did in Britain (or indeed Ireland which despite the image of poor peasants had quite a large and prosperous middle class).


Yes, but apparently from what I've read, when entertaining guests, Russians favour a china tea set and tea pot!

Anyway, the bottom line is that before the advent of the mug in recent years, the tea set was in common everday use in British and Irish households. When I was a kid, we had several tea sets. Many households had a 'breakfast set' complete with cereal bowls, egg cups etc and an afternoon set for teatime. There was always at least one 'good' set in addition used for special occasions or visiting dignitaries! The everyday stuff was generally made by an English factory called Queens or sometimes Duchess and was pretty but sturdier than the 'good' stuff which was almost transparent and very delicate.

News / Opole townsfolk outraged by mayor's destruction of their song festival [137]


Pure nonsense. An established performer with her long history will always have followers and fans. She doesn't need publicity from TV stations or anybody to keep her career going. On her own fan page the lady herself states that she withdrew as a result of the political scandal surrounding the event and family reasons.

Language / "Cup of coffee" translated in Poland as Kubek kawy. Why not a mug? [70]

Ok, firstly regarding the term 'beaker', as Jon says a beaker was a drinking vessel minus a handle and was a commonly used term for picnic mugs when they were first manufactured from plastic back in the 1930s. Nowadays a beaker is the term used specifically for a bone china mug. The term has been in use for some years though not everybody bothers to make the distinction, however in Ireland I have been asked on occasion if I would prefer my tea from a cup, a beaker or a mug. Elderly people especially make the distinction. It's a compromise between a cup and a mug as it has the delicacy of the cup and the practicality of the mug, if you like. Ireland is actually a bigger tea drinking culture than the UK and many people are quite fussy about what they drink from, as the tea seems to taste different. I detest tea from a thick mug and favour the bone china tea cup that makes a lovely clink on the saucer!

@ Paulina, the point I was making is tea from a cup and saucer is I believe a relatively new thing in Poland as the glass was more commonly used. Certainly the glass would have been used by the upper classes too but the porcelain or bone china cup would have been exclusively an upper class thing as porcelain wasn't even manufactured in Poland until the nineteenth century and had to be imported. It was therefore a luxury item, not mass produced as it was in England. In England there were numerous potteries and ceramics factories producing tea sets and dinner services affordable for the lower middle class homes and by the turn of the 19th century coming up to the twentieth, every working class home had a 'good teaset' for high days and holidays. There was a distinction in the UK between high end makers like Wedgewood, Royal Doulton, Worcester, Spode etc and factories such as Wellington and Colclough.


Yes, this was common everywhere. It actually started because the first cups were bowls without handles and they were too hot to hold! So it was actually a very common practice amongst the upper classes of England during the 18th century. The practice of drinking the first draught of tea from the saucer carried on as Jon says for a long time, elderly people used to do it all the time in Ireland when I was a child.


Do you mean names of glasses in English? Well glasses have names yes. A bog standard cylindrical water glass is a tumbler, a long narrow glass for champagne is a flute and so on.

Language / "Cup of coffee" translated in Poland as Kubek kawy. Why not a mug? [70]


Yes but upper class Russians drank not only from tea glasses but from porcelain or bone china cups.



Peter the Great probably introduced that custom with his great enthusiasm for all things western. They were manufacturing porcelain in Russia from the early 18th century onwards. The last Tsar of Russia, poor old Nicholas II, God rest his soul, during exile drank his tea from a bone china cup and saucer patterned with violets. The cup and saucer were saved and treasured by Sophie Buxhoevden, lady in waiting to the Empress.

Language / "Cup of coffee" translated in Poland as Kubek kawy. Why not a mug? [70]

Sorry Lyzko I was answering Izza22 and our posts must have crossed. Yes, you're right that 'szklanka' is a glass. It can be a drinking glass for water or lemonade but it's also used for the tea glass. The most common kind of tea glass here is the 'mug' type, just a cylinder with a handle in heatproof glass. And filiżanka is a china cup for either tea or coffee. Very fancy ones of bone china are popular gifts here among the older generation but I think they're rarely used.

I would imagine that drinking tea in a glass with a holder was the most common way of doing it here years ago and the bone china cup was an upper class thing that never really worked its way down the social scale due to the lack of a large middle class such as you had in England. In England the middle classes very much aped the ways of their betters :)) and the establishment of the English ceramics industry led to the mass production of bone china in the Victorian era so it could be produced cheaply enough to be affordable not just for the gentry.

Language / "Cup of coffee" translated in Poland as Kubek kawy. Why not a mug? [70]

No it's a tea cup of fine china, in the English style though it's probably a legacy of the French influence. The other thing you're probably thinking of is the tea glass in the holder Russian style.

Language / "Cup of coffee" translated in Poland as Kubek kawy. Why not a mug? [70]


Kinder kaffee!! Ya big Jessie!


Did you use coffee beans with that Jon?

Language / "Cup of coffee" translated in Poland as Kubek kawy. Why not a mug? [70]


That's how we drink our coffee chez Atch :)) But the water shouldn't be boiling, it should be just off the boil. Then let it sit for a minute or two, depending on how strong you want it (in our house, we use two dessert spoons of espresso blend per 200ml cup, and let it sit for about two minutes. Stir and let it sit for another minute for the grounds to settle - Bob's your uncle, Fanny's your aunt, a really delicious cup of coffee. We only drink it first thing in the morning though, the rest of the day it's tea, English Breakfast or Earl Grey, proper loose tea from Twinings, none of your rubbishy old teabags with the sweepings from the blending room floor! Mr Atch drinks Yerba Matte instead of coffee for an energy boost but I loathe it, horribly bitter.

Law / Hello, Question regarding a grandparent who has died in Poland and an American Grandchild (me) [7]

If there is a will then you should ask to see a copy of it to begin with. It wouldn't cost much to have it translated if your Polish is not fluent enough and then you could at least confirm whether you're actually mentioned or not. He may have died intestate (without leaving a will) in which case the estate is divided up amongst surviving relations and the court oversees this process. Any debts would also be divided up between you and as Ziemowit says you can renounce them but that also means renouncing any inheritance as far as I know.

Law / Hello, Question regarding a grandparent who has died in Poland and an American Grandchild (me) [7]

First of all remain calm. Don't let anyone rush you. Get all the facts straight first before taking any action. The one thing I know is that you if you are named as your grandfather's heir, you can certainly be liable for debts of the deceased so don't sign anything, send anything or give any information before you take proper legal advice. There are other people on this forum who know more about it than I do and hopefully somebody will see your post and respond.

Language / "Cup of coffee" translated in Poland as Kubek kawy. Why not a mug? [70]


Yes that's a better definition.

I see what you mean about chair, in that yes, in English (either British or American) one can simply use the general term of chair to describe a chair of any kind, but in Polish a chair is a chair and an armchair is an armchair and never the twain shall meet. I wonder what they would call a carver, probably 'a dining chair with arms'. I must take a look at some furniture sites later.


That's true but the Oxford dictionary defines them as follows:

Mug: A large cup, typically cylindrical with a handle and used without a saucer.

Cup: A small bowl-shaped container for drinking from, typically having a handle.

and Meriam Webster:

Mug: A cylindrical drinking cup
Cup: An open usually bowl-shaped drinking vessel

So pretty close though as you can see the American definintion lacks the extra detail of the British one. However both agree that a mug is cylindrical and a cup bowl shaped. That's the main difference between the two items.


Not only than Polish. American English is more general than British English too. I wonder if it's because originally so many different nationalities settled simultaneously in America and many had to learn English so a form of more basic/simplified everyday usage emerged.

Language / "Cup of coffee" translated in Poland as Kubek kawy. Why not a mug? [70]


In the English language, the term cup of coffee or tea, as you would know Maf, doesn't literally mean a cup, it means rather a drink of tea or coffee and may be served in any receptacle, even a styrofoam or plastic container. As to Polish in general I find there are fewer distinctions but the few that exist are observed much more srictly than those in English which are used increasingly by a minority of people. However I think most people do distinguish between 'chair' and 'armchair just as one does in Polish with krzesło and fotel.

But if you take the example of chair, in English, if you were to use all the terms available you'd have:

Arm chair and there loads of different styles (the club chair, the wing chair etc)
Dining chair, Carver (which is a dining chair with arms)
Kitchen chair (within which there are a variety of designs which all have names, the Windsor, the ladderback)
There are even specific terms for the types of legs, arms, backs etc. I don't think Polish goes into quite that level of detail but I'm open to correction if a native speaker would like to oblige.

As to cup and mug, they are definitely two different things in English.

Law / An international student in Poland wants to stay here permanently and get Polish citizenship [23]

If you're from the Indian sub-continent you need a visa and you can stay for up to 90 days. If you want to live and work in Poland you need to find an employer in Poland who will offer you a job and apply for a work permit on your behalf.

Work / Information about jobs for Indian students in Poland [286]

Just a little tip for you Bavesh, if the job is advertised in English, it means they don't expect or need you to speak Polish. Example:

programmer.jobs/warsaw-pol/java-developer/569D430901B84F15B526809073CE3F69/job


I'm not sure why you want to come to Poland as a student. Do you want to get a Masters or PHD? Your industry experience is far more important and you have plenty of that. A post-grad qualification will matter less to an employer than your practical skills and won't make much difference to your earning potential. There are loads of guys with a basic Bachelors degree earning as much as people with a post-grad.

Love / Different relationship... can it work with Pakistani girl and Polish guy? [129]


I don't think that's true actually. There have been many translations of the Bible but they remain essentially the same despite the different vocabulary used. I doubt the if the Jews have changed their sacred scriptures either or the Hindus. I think you're confusing scripture with doctrine.

Life / Polish gift giving customs, what to give bacia (grandmother) and other customs in Poland [6]

Oh yes, the tea is a great idea. Poles love tea and there are several lovely tea shops selling lots of different blends including gift packs of a few different blends. They also sell decorative tea caddies, you could even add a nice bone china teacup and saucer or a little tea pot.

Life / Polish gift giving customs, what to give bacia (grandmother) and other customs in Poland [6]

I know that the oldies in my husband's family always appreciate a nice item of warm clothing such as a cozy dressing gown (if you're American I think you call it a bath robe). I think you should bring something for the cousins but at their age, it's a bit tricky as they probably have quite specific tastes. All Poles love flowers though so you should be safe with them, a really nice arrangement from a good flower shop. You could get something nice for 50zl or you could get a plant that they can keep and remember you by :)) Poles also generally love house plants and usually have lots of them. If they have kids you could bring something for them too. Wouldn't have a clue about the godparents I'm afraid. Wine, there's loads of cheapish ones but you should budget for around 40zl upwards for a nice one. The men generally prefer vodka. You can't go wrong with Zubrowka.

Law / Poland's Citizenship Requirements - Is a permanent resident card necessary ? [26]


It's not bureaucracy, it's incompetence. Even lawyers will give you conflicting or inaccurate information. Par of it is lack of experience in dealing with these matters in sufficiently large volume on a day to day basis. Maybe you're approaching somebody who hasn't dealt with this kind of thing for a couple of years (if at all) and they can't remember the details so they just say whatever they think they remember. Dominic is right that whenever possible you have to go straight to the top. Be insistent about it. After all this time in Poland you should have learned by now how to deal with underlings - firmly!

Life / Convincing my Polish Parents to go to Polska! [4]

Hey there Slavic. How's it going? Glad to hear you got your college plans sorted. I presume you'd be staying with Babcia and that your parents wouldn't have to pay for accommodation for you? But can Granny afford to feed you for two months or will she need some contribution from Mama and Tata? Apart from that I'm sorry to say that 744 PLN is not going to be enough to keep you in beer and skittles for two months. Double it and you can enjoy a frugal holiday.

As to how to convince your parents, there's no magic formula for that but I would try something like 'Once I start college, I plan to spend my summers working/interning etc so this is the last chance I'll have to connect with the homeland for a long time. But hey, maybe I can do a bit of networking while I'm there too and make some contacts for my future career and of course as I'm going to study Slavic literature I hope I could gain some advantage for my studies by spending some time in Poland' So a sort of combination of the sentimental and the practical (which in many ways sums up the Polish character I think!). It might be a good idea to check out online some Dom Kultury, centres for Slavic studies etc and see what's going on there this summer so that you could mention them to your parents and give the vibe that you'd be preparing for your degree in some way. In the end it'll boil down to whether your parents trust you to go gallivanting around Europe on your own and whether the budget is there for you to do so. Good luck! Don't forget to let us know what happens. I shall be waiting with the predictably bated breath :D

Love / Urgent Relationship help - wife wants to stay in Poland [118]


The term 'Bunreacht' na hÉireann might might be a bit confusing for our non-Irish friends Ted and let's be honest, even for a few of the Irish ones ;) I too get what you're saying. Obviously Ireland's legal system is not identical to the Brits but there are very important elements of it which do not exist in cvil law, in particular the old thing of precedent which is hugely influential in Irish court decisions. Irish law remains, due to its common law influences, far more flexible than cvil law.


I would disagree that Ireland was ever a third world country Towarzysz but never mind that. I'm not saying the two countries are literally the same. I'm saying that Poland is still in a state of post-colonial reform. One area where they are the same is the shocking overcrowding in living conditions. Think back to the Dublin tenements of the 1950s and that's the picture. I know one family with four kids living in a one room flat, 400 square feet. They actually have five kids but the oldest one has to live with his grandparents because they literally can't squeeze him in. Now that's as bad as it was in Warsaw before the second world war. That's a local authority flat by the way, assigned to them by the council. And as you know yourself people rummaging through bins for food is a common sight here. They're not all homeless either.


One of the big differences between Ireland and Poland is the lack of a social conscience or compassion for your fellow man. Irish people whatever their faults tend to be quick to sympathise and empathise and quick to reach out. Poles are not and that's reflected in their social policies. Also in Ireland, long before the welfare state, there was a long history of initiatives to help the poor, right down to stuff like the Penny Dinners which are still running today.


Yes there are of course but.....again Towzrzysz you're judging it by Irish standards. Things we would consider unacceptable in Ireland and requiring intervention are met in Poland with a shrug of the shoulders. Where visitation rights are concerned for non-custodial parents, the law exists on paper that they have rights but there is no satisfactory way in Poland of enforcing those rights and bear in mind that's in a country which has had divorce for decades. It's one of the things that family law experts are constantly complaining about and saying needs reform:

"The enforcement of visitation rights of the non-custodial parent also needs reform as the current remedies for custodial interference are not effective".

but the wheels turn very slowly in Poland.

Food / Making American cheeses (Polish and EU ones are terrible!) [100]


Are you sure you can't find it? As Dolno says it's called 'kolendra' in Poland (coriander in English). Both the fresh herb and the dried coriander seeds in packets are widely available in Warsaw anyway.

Love / Urgent Relationship help - wife wants to stay in Poland [118]

Towarzysz Poland is a completely different society to Ireland. You must remember that Communism ended less than thirty years ago and that's a very short time in the history of a nation. Imagine Ireland thirty years after the War of Independence, so early 1950s............

Poland has been in the EU less than fifteen years and although that has made some difference, there is still a lot to do in the way of reforms and dismantling the old systems left in place from the Communist days. It's a post-Communist society. The legal system is based on Roman law, not on Common Law which we have in Ireland and which we inheritied from the Brits. Say what you like about them but they left us with a bascially sound infracstructure which supported the development of a modern democracy. Poland didn't have that luxury.

Work / Polish / Irish couple with kids moving to Warsaw - finding a job without any connections. [37]

Annitta would you not get your husband to contact the Irish Polish Chamber of Commerce in Dublin? irishpolish.pl

It would be a start at making some contacts and they may at least have some suggestions. You may need to put a bit of groundwork into this process for a year or so, building a network like Dominic says. Your husband sounds like a very energetic guy who will need to be active, definitely not ready for early retirement. This is really going to be your biggest challenge, you will probably settle down ok though you will miss certain things about Ireland that you've come to take for granted over the years you've been there. It's a much 'easier' place to live than Poland in a myriad of ways. Your kids will be fine, though the older one may take a few months to settle.

I would agree with the other posters about the Polish language. How much Polish does your husband have now? Even if you think he doesn't need it professionally, he will still need it in his personal life and for day to day encounters. Although many more people speak English in Poland these days, it's by no means everyone and the amount of English they speak varies greatly. You don't want to see him in a position where his ten year old daughter needs to accompany him to the post office or bank because he only has basic phrase book Polish or he can't make a phone call to query his gas bill and has to wait for you to come home and do it.