Real Estate / The current property boom in Poland is a bubble [342]

With the NBP having cut interest rates by .50 last week, I am not sure if property prices will continue to fall if mortgages get cheap. Cheap money usually inflates assets, does it not? Not good news really, because it's asset price inflation for credit-fuelled reasons, not growth and prosperity reasons. Not a sound thing.

Real Estate / The current property boom in Poland is a bubble [342]


Of course, their reporting could reflect an accurate trend now into Q1 2013, however the report is based on 2012's figures. Interestingly, they admit that developers have 2 years worth of regular flats to get rid of.

Real Estate / The current property boom in Poland is a bubble [342]


Some English teachers know more about the world of finance and commerce than those who are supposedly paid to, in fact, Pip. Someone who does something for a hobby might be a better sponge for knowledge than someone who's bored with it as a 9 to 5. But anyway, I think PW is an economist or businessperson.

Life / Problems with a dentist in Poland - is there any means of redress? [6]


Correct. My warning was ignored, and I gave that warning after the first treatment or consultation happened last year. I think I said, among other things, "He sounds like a dodgy BS'er to me. Find someone else!"


I know, seems there's not even a receipt. There might be X-rays but not sure how it can be tied in to prove the dentist did them and the rest of the work.

Additionally, he usually runs very late and a wait of 1.5hrs to 2 hrs in his surgery is not unusual. About 800zł has been wasted on him, perhaps a little less. The total he's received has been over 1000zł.

For all that, my Polish friend still kept going to him, convinced perhaps that such lateness and popularity was a good omen. Kinda reminds me of empty nightclubs that deliberately make a queue form outside.

It has overtones of someone in an abusive relationship who just seems to stay there for no known reason.

Moral of story for anyone in Wroc browsing the forum: 95% positive internet reviews of a dentist (or any trader) don't always mean anything, people can even fake them, and a busy waiting room might just mean people keep having to come back because the dentist messes up or keeps making fresh work for himself. If he doesn't issue a receipt, it could be a big, fat red flag. If he says anything like "Trust me/leave it to me I know what needs to be done/I know what has to be done don't worry" you might want to consider putting your coat back on and leaving the surgery.

Real Estate / The current property boom in Poland is a bubble [342]


I have found the majority of rental agents here to be exactly that. Promises were broken, BS was in abundance. Every bit as bad as the UK ones, if not worse. As I said at The Other Place. (I have found one, possibly, who is not too bad, but I won't know for sure until I get further into the deal. The rest were just try on merchants.)

Life / Problems with a dentist in Poland - is there any means of redress? [6]

They didn't tell me what the dentist had been doing. This is probably because I had said right at the start that I didn't like the sound of him, because they had told me a few things he'd said and it smelt like BS to me. But they didn't take my advice and find someone else, and continued with him. This doing the same tooth twice and charging twice has been going on for only the last month, but apparently before that he was dragging on with some very routine stuff. And to me, that seemed highly irregular.

Real Estate / The current property boom in Poland is a bubble [342]

Unfortunately, the figures I gave you were purchasing prices. Came as a bit of a shock to me. I like to think it's because there are few properties coming up for sale there, and perhaps that's why. Elsewhere here, things seem far less buoyant, with aged for sale banners a fairly common sight. But when you phone to enquire on price, you can see why the banners are yellowing or faded. If NBP reduces IRs, vendors who are leveraged will have even less pressure to sell -- the same disease as happened in Britain. On a plus note, I offered nearly 20% less on a rental and they accepted. AFAIK it had only been to let for a week.

Real Estate / The current property boom in Poland is a bubble [342]

Not everywhere, not so far anyway. Someone I know had access to some registry of prices last week, and was telling me flats in one of the better (but not the best) parts of Wroc (near the new church at Krzyka, and TVP Wrocław) are still selling at 8000 a sq m. They said that's not much off the peak price. They cited several examples there and in streets near the Skytower. I spoke to a surveyor earlier this morning and his exact words were "prices have come down a LITTLE bit". Make of that what you will. I still think rents and sale prices are disconnected from earnings. How long it can go on I don't know.

Life / Hey, Nice Airport Wrocław! Or! Day #1 for an American Ex-Pat in Poland. [128]

Hey, you never say that about my threads any more ;o)

Life / Where, Oh Where Do Poles Get Their Dogs? [18]


I agree, unless the newspaper ad is a family whose pet has had a litter.

Also, if anyone buys a German Shepherd Dog/Alsatian, it's very important to get a hip score -- an assurance from a vet that the parents were not prone to hip problems, because if they were the puppies are sometimes likely to lose the use of their rear legs in middle-age or younger, and this also can cause them to lose control of their bowels indoors.

Life / Where, Oh Where Do Poles Get Their Dogs? [18]

There are pet shops selling various animals in shopping malls, though probably not dogs, I hope.

Anyone buying a dog should be checked out, to make sure they realise the commitment involved. Sadly, this isn't the case most of the time (the UK's RSPCA and other dog charities there do that, despite large numbers of dogs and cats needing rehoming). The Sunday market in Wrocław probably still has the animals for sale section across the road from the main pitches -- there you will find dogs and cats etc for sale from dozens of breeders and sellers. If it were me, I'd buy a dog that needs rehoming, rather than a puppy.

Life / Hey, Nice Airport Wrocław! Or! Day #1 for an American Ex-Pat in Poland. [128]


As you have so far resisted that temptation, I shall herewith reward you with a link to an alphabetical list of idioms! Enjoy! :O)
idiomconnection.com/mostfrequent.html

Life / Hey, Nice Airport Wrocław! Or! Day #1 for an American Ex-Pat in Poland. [128]

I'm going to be a pedant! The phrase is always You're a natural.
EG: wrightslaw.com/blog/?p=892

Yes, I realise this may add to the weight of evidence to suspend me.... :o)

Life / Hey, Nice Airport Wrocław! Or! Day #1 for an American Ex-Pat in Poland. [128]

Seriously, you should write a travel column or something like that. You have the knack of drawing readers in with interesting language. Perhaps you could do your own version of Around Poland With A Fridge amazon.co.uk/Round-Ireland-Fridge-Tony-Hawks/dp/0091867770 or give Bryson a run for his money amazon.com/Bill-Brysons-Travel-Books/lm/15FBI4H84RNJZ

If it's just your natural flow of words, you're exceptionally lucky. If it's a skill you intentionally apply, it's well executed. I'm not sure people who aren't English language natives can fully appreciate the above craft in your writing, but they should take my word for it that generally you do exhibit quite a talent for leaping off the page.

Life / Hey, Nice Airport Wrocław! Or! Day #1 for an American Ex-Pat in Poland. [128]

Early days, and you've come back to some nice weather. Hopefully a good omen for ya!

You need an Urbancard, as it's the cheapest way to travel.

I'd recommend a one month city card at 90zł, or it you need to go beyond the city limits, use the ABCD express buses or use certain suburban MPK buses, I think it's 98zl (monthly).

Probably you remember this site, but if not:
urbancard.pl/en/index.html

(If you're a student, perhaps there's a reduction you can get -- I don't know about that myself)

Life / Hey, Nice Airport Wrocław! Or! Day #1 for an American Ex-Pat in Poland. [128]

Talking of hunter-gathering, if you're near a Biedronka, some have really nice walnuts for sale (29zl/kg - not cheap but they're mostly good)

Do you feel like you've come home or do you still feel drawn back across the Atlantic?

Real Estate / Best and worst months of the year to find a flat to rent in Poland? [39]

You're probably right. I think the expression in English is "Using a sprat to catch a mackerel." :o)

Viewed yet another yesterday, although am now tiring of trying to find anywhere. The flat has been empty for some time, the agent said someone lived there a month and was removed for being in debt. Not the best thing to say to me and I'm not sure how that can even be true, under the Kodeks. The flat itself had a strong odour of something not terrible but not good. The bathroom had a stronger and less pleasant odour. The agent said it all just needed ventilation. Well, I've seen empty flats before, they don't usually pong. This flat was built in 2004 or 2005 and is otherwise in fairly good condition. But the smell and talk of one month evictions puts me off, as does the price, and the agent's fee of 50% of one month's rent. I know many agents like to seem firm on price, and this one could capitulate if the flat doesn't let in a month or so. In which case I have to take a gamble on whether the smell will go, even if the agent did get the landlord to discount the rent by a good chunk (it'd take 15% off to get my interest). Seems to be a pattern emerging of landlords flying a kite more hopefully at this time of year, followed in a small percentage of cases by them getting real when it doesn't let. I was also enquiring about buying a garage -- there the market is quite buoyant for sure with them selling inside of 2 weeks each time I enquired ( 25000-28000PLN price bracket. )

I'm seeing enough flats still advertised a month or so after I first noticed them or viewed them to be able to say, fairly confidently, there looks like a bit of a slump in the 1500zł and above price range -- unless it's a sought after street or has something extra special about it.

Only a small number are reducing their price.

I am now offering at 15% below asking rents. I don't expect success, I have seen before that many are very stubborn and would rather lose 1500 a month for 3 or 4 months than take 250 less for 6 or 12 months. But that's up to them -- I'm sticking to offering only what common sense says the value is likely to be. And it has to be said, even then the prices are out of step with wages by a long chalk. In fact, I think many rents are about 40% too high.

Real Estate / Astounded by the poor value of residential property here in Wroclaw [92]

:o)

In other words, the rental agreement covers everything except some fixture or fitting within the rented flat which, for some legal reason, the landlord has a right to get access to. I'll look out for that one, nothing would surprise me here! (Although actually I am losing patience now with it and am thinking of going home to England for a few months or longer, because I just can't find anything decent to rent here -- there are always problems of one sort or another with each flat or landlord, and of course that's when I can even find a flat to have a look at!)

Some value in the occasional property that I've viewed, mostly the empty ones.

A few questions if anyone knows the answers...

1. Assuming the property is empty and I pay cash (no mortgage), what's the typical transaction time to completion (the apartment or house becoming mine, and getting the keys) ?

2. Do I need my PESEL when buying ?

3. Is it worth it to put in an offer on any flat which still seems too expensive or do Polish vendors typically refuse ? For example, 10% or 20% off.

Real Estate / Astounded by the poor value of residential property here in Wroclaw [92]

Thanks for posting. So, to summarise, the situation seems to be
It's hard to evict in less than 3 months unless a notary inserts a clause that the court would accept is consistent with the Kodeks' rules or guidance on evictions. In such an instance, a landlord can evict before 3 or 6 months of no rent payment. (Please do not think I am condoning withholding rent - I am not. A tenant should pay rent unless the landlord has failed in some significant way.) Some landlords break the law and harass tenants out in some way, such as cutting off power or water or 'sending the boys round'. Written agreements are valid but harder to rely on for obvious reasons. Landlords gain the most advantage by having a tenancy agreement seen and stamped by a notary.

Real Estate / Best and worst months of the year to find a flat to rent in Poland? [39]

I've no idea! I hadn't thought of bribes! You mean I have to bribe them to take me as a tenant? Like in Japan where tenants have to give gifts to landlords or something like that! That'll be the day, they can kiss my hairy backside.

I recognise at least 3 more on Gumtree that I first saw a month or two ago. However, the price only seems to be down on one of them.

Despite 100 or so hits yesterday, one of them is still unlet and relisted today.

It's a patchy rental market, but on balance it seems that stuff isn't letting that quickly unless fresh and exciting. One that I like has been let, but of course who knows if it will go as quickly this time next year at that price. These are strange times it seems... assume nothing!

Real Estate / Astounded by the poor value of residential property here in Wroclaw [92]

Oh okay, I'll have to return the baseball bat to Decathlon now!

This was the clause -- most agents use it (it says something about termination if rent's late by 7 days)

2.Wynajmujący może rozwiązać niniejszą umowę w trybie natychmiastowym bez okresu wypowiedzenia w razie zaistnienia którejkolwiek z przesłanek:
- zalegania przez Najemcę z zapłatą czynszu lub innych należności wynikających z umowy
najmu przez okres co najmniej 7 dni,
- używania przedmiotu najmu niezgodnie z jego przeznaczeniem opisanym w §2 niniejszej umowy;
- używanie przedmiotu najmu w sposób skutkujący jego zużyciem i/lub zniszczeniem ponad normalną
eksploatację przedmiotu najmu;

Real Estate / Astounded by the poor value of residential property here in Wroclaw [92]

Interesting, there's lots to learn here, but I note that even the large agencies write agreements saying "rent late by 7 days - landlord can end contract and remove you"

Real Estate / Astounded by the poor value of residential property here in Wroclaw [92]

Quick anecdote, from today.

Spoke to a youngish Polish man who runs a food kiosk. He has lived in the Midlands of the UK and Oxon but returned to Poland (and I spoke to him here in Wroc). Without any prompting from me, he told me he'd bought a house or flat (not sure which) in Krzyki in 2006 and (quote) "I don't understand why it's not worth double what I paid, it's crazy." I suggested to him it was because there's easy credit and mortgages here (the same mistake as happened in Britain and the US) and he denied that, saying "No, they've stopped that now."

I also mentioned to him about rental agreements. Right or wrong, I don't know, but he told me that if a tenant does not pay their rent here and there's a written tenancy agreement, the landlord has to wait another 3 months after that to get a court order to evict the tenant. He said this was why landlords don't like to do written agreements, along with the fact written ones mean tax liability.

What wasn't clear, because he had to go and serve customers, was whether a written agreement ALWAYS holds. Specifically, I wanted to ask him:

i. Does the written agreement dilute the rights under Kodeks (some other forum posters here have said it can, he said it can't and that Kodeks over-rides anyone trying to dilute it)

ii. Does a written tenancy agreement have to be stamped or witnessed by a Notary for it to have legal power? In other words, is a plain written agreement signed by just the parties involved (the tenant and landlord/owner) have reduced authenticity if a Notary did not stamp it and file it?

Real Estate / Best and worst months of the year to find a flat to rent in Poland? [39]

Me too, and there's such round Klecina and nearby, commercial stuff going begging because of unrealistic rent expectations.

One of the estate agents, I believe their catchphrase says 'friendly' or some such, doesn't even reply to my rental property enquiries (which are in proper Polish). So, some agents have sufficient tenants that they don't take an interest in new applicants. Also, some properties are letting in a week or two. In a nutshell: the market is patchy -- but the common theme is anything of good value does, of course, get a stampede.

On Gumtree, direct from landlords -- recognising a good few that I viewed a month ago and are still available at the same price (landlords either refused my offer or submitted a bad agreement)

Some of the flats on Gumtree in the sub 1400zl a month bracket are getting 100+ hits a day online. Yet, some are still not let.

Also, am noticing flats in the same block of the same size, just with a better sofa and maybe a TV on the wall -- 1000zl a month MORE than identical flats on the next floor. Hard to believe, but that's what some landlords are asking, despite the fact that a flat in adjoining block which is identical in size didn't even let at 1650 a month and has been reduced to 1500 and yet is still unlet (because its kitchen is a bit shabby and the flat has a bad colour scheme). Another on the same estate but the newer end is now reduced to 1450 having been on for much more since last August.

Landlords seem to try their luck, often for too long, and they lose thousands per month with no tenant. Why do they do that? Because every now and then some lucky landlord lets his or her over-priced flat for a very optimistic figure, and that sets a local price which landlords are reluctant to relinquish. As they hold on to their dream price aspiration, they lose tenant after tenant and the flat sits empty ("voided") for 6 months until they realise it ain't gonna happen at their price unless a big cheese from a big local corporate with an expense account just happens to take a shine to their leather settee and give them the stupid price they demand.

On one estate I leaflet dropped last weekend, nearly half the flats seem empty as the mailboxes are stuffed completely full with circulars and junk mail. I couldn't even get my little leaflet in, they were jammed. Yet will those owners or landlords get realistic on the price? Nie way, Jose.

Food / Where to buy British mature Cheddar Cheese and salted butter in Poland? [289]

Thanks, yes you're right, and it's made by Adams Foods in the UK (or it was last time). Probably next going to appear in May.

This is not a drill!

The LIDL British promotion scheduled for 03.06 has started early at some branches and they are already carrying the mature cheddar cheese. Last time it was A1 and in the many branches I checked it had sold out within a day or two.

That ends this message.

Food / Where to buy British mature Cheddar Cheese and salted butter in Poland? [289]

No, repeat no, Cathedral City at any Tescos here at present. Wyke Farms and Kerrygold only if you're feeling flush.

That ends this newsflash.

Real Estate / Best and worst months of the year to find a flat to rent in Poland? [39]


Ah, you're right! I just spotted her ad is still live, it says Data dodania: 13.02.13 (Data aktualizacji: 20.02.13) In her email she had told me the flat let the day after my offer was sent to her. Yet her update to the ad and date of her snotty email to me is days later on the 20th. She was perhaps telling porky pies or else she let the flat only on the day she emailed me, not the day she claimed.


Actually I don't mind them, my point is that the agent said it was such a secure gated estate etc, but actually it isn't, it's open to anyone to use as a shortcut.

By the way, re my post


-- I walked away, and within hours they got back in touch and told me OK OK we'll negotiate. Of course, now I've lost interest, because they had taken me for a bit of a rich twerp quite obviously. And I'm certainly not rich :D

Of course, not every flat has a lower rent this year than last year. But here's an example of a flat that was asking 1800zl last year, and is now available for 1500zl.

The tiles in the kitchen have changed but it's the same flat.

Another flat of the same size, however, in the same estate was let in 2 days for 1500zl. The above one has been hanging around for considerably longer.

Why, I don't know, it's all a bit strange.


This flat ^^ -- they didn't want to bargain with me initially but since I walked away they have been reduced to listing it for a full 10 percent less. And still no takers.

Meanwhile, another flat where the owner refused to split the deposit and first rent into two payments for me, is now listed with 2 more agents, at the same already quite low price per month. The majority of landlords volunteer to do an arrangement with me where I pay the deposit plus service charges and get the keys, then pay the first week or two's rent plus a month in advance 1 or 2 weeks later direct to their bank. Just a pity that those landlords never have flats I find attractive enough. I know I should be less fussy, but I want to live somewhere I like, at least a little bit!

Law / Zloty climbs as ratings agency upgrades Poland [34]

:o)

Thanks again for the link above, they're at least 10gr higher than the other one. Great stuff!

Law / Zloty climbs as ratings agency upgrades Poland [34]


Nothing would surprise me.


Thanks for that.