USA, Canada / Getting a VISA to USA by a Polish person nowadays [339]

jwojcie wrote:


the number is 12,000. get the "speculation" fart out of your head for a minute and answer me this: Is the USA ok for denying 12,000 people from Poland if they ALL were going to overstay? What about 8,000? What about 6,000? 5,000?

This is NOT speculation, this is ME asking YOU a simple question based on the only numbers we have. YOU have no idea how many were planning on overstaying but a group of very well trained and educated consulars of the USA found 12,000 Poles, for whatever reason, "unfit" for travel and you don't like it. So, what numbers would be acceptable, ALL THINGS aside? The more you go on about speculation, the more you discredit your own discourse on the whole thing because that's all you have for the whole visa issue.....speculation.

If you ask me, if they are 50% accurate, the USA saves money. They still get your application fee and you don't go there and live illegally without paying any taxes into the system. Win-Win. Of the 50% that were legit, hell, how much were they really going to spend there anyway? Chances are they weren't even going to pay for a hotel, rather they'd end up staying with Uncle Pawel in Chicago or Aunt Joanna in Michigan. As for the ones with plenty of money, real estate and good jobs in Poland that plan on spending some cash when they visit, they almost ALWAYS get the tourist visa anyway. I've yet to meet an educated, financially successful Pole who was denied a B2 visa.

USA, Canada / Getting a VISA to USA by a Polish person nowadays [339]

jwojcie wrote:


of course there's a difference. someone with nothing going for them that scrums up enough money to get themselves a tourist visa and a plane ticket to america is much more likely to become an illegal alien than somebody successful in business in Poland who gets a B1 visa from his/her company. common sense.

jwojcie wrote:


107,752. I still don't know where the discrepency comes from (69,714) but let's go with 107,000.

If 107,000 were given a tourist visa, that means that around 119,000 applied based on a 10% refusal rate, giving us 12,000 Poles that were denied a B2 visa.

We've already established that 216, according to you, is negligible. Consider this: What if Krakow/Warsaw was.........50% accurate in their denials. That would mean that they prevented 6,000 Poles from overstaying their visas.

Is that a lot?

USA, Canada / Getting a VISA to USA by a Polish person nowadays [339]

jwojcie wrote:


oh no? I'm reading what you just wrote and it's conveniently got "from Poland" written into it, something post #156 OR #148 did not include.

also, it is wrong to "suppose" that this number represents tourist visas only. many people go to the USA on business and go there on a business visa, something completely different from a tourist visa. if you work for a company and they want you to travel somewhere on business, the chances of that employee being refused a business visa to spend a week in the USA on business is slim to none. I have met many people over my 4 years of teaching here that went to the USA on a business visa.

jwojcie wrote:


Ok, I just found your 157,116. Now, if you're using I-94 stats, this would still include Business Visa. I'd like to know what the number is without business visas.

Just looked into the numbers a bit deeper.

for starters, your original number of 133,591, although inaccurate, is still closer to the real number than 157,116. 157,116 includes ALL visas given to Poles in 2009 which is not the number we are looking for.

Something I recently dug up:

travel.state.gov/pdf/MultiYearTableXIX.pdf

According to this table, in 2009, 69,714 Poles were given a non-immigrant visa in 2009. Why the discrepency? This is about half of 133,591. Could this number be B2 visas only? It doesn't say so because a B1 visa (business visa) is also non-immigrant status.

I'm still looking for the 2009 B2 visa statistics. Then we can discusss this further.

USA, Canada / Getting a VISA to USA by a Polish person nowadays [339]

jwojcie wrote:



ok, so according to you, 216 is "negligible".

now, do you have data for how many Poles applied for a tourist visa in 2009?

USA, Canada / Getting a VISA to USA by a Polish person nowadays [339]

jwojcie wrote:


you caught nothing, hot shot. i brought that up to show just how easy it is for a pole to go to america and "get lost" among the polish community without even knowing a word of english. for a pole going to america and having plans of never coming back, it's a piece of cake, they have entire cities of polish people. as for a lithuanian? completely different.

Let's take a step back. Let's assume that the numbers you have are correct. 216 deportable Poles in 2009. The USA looks at that number and the result is a 10% tourist visa refusal rate.

So let's concentrate for now on the numbers we have: Is 216 a lot?

USA, Canada / Getting a VISA to USA by a Polish person nowadays [339]

ironside wrote:


right, and where does the percentage of refusals stem from??? oh, that's right. evil americans that have some mysterious reason to be utterly biased towards Poles.

ironside wrote:


you and I both know why countries like Lithuania are in the VWP. there are an estimated 10,000,000 Poles in the USA. that's 25% of Poland's population and TRIPLE the entire population of Lithuania.

ironside wrote:


which makes your argument as valid as mine. you have no data, neither do I, and the USA's policy on Poland still hasn't changed.

ironside wrote:


Yes, please. If you claim that the USA's decision to exclude Poland from the VWP is not valid due to lack of evidence, TELL ME what evidence would validate it? What kinds of numbers would make it valid? It's obvious that SOME number exists in your mind, otherwise you wouldn't request data!

round and round we go.

USA, Canada / Getting a VISA to USA by a Polish person nowadays [339]

ironside wrote:


oh but of course! the lord has spoken!

so ironside, with that way of thinking, everyone should be given visa free travel no? every single country? you wouldn't want to treat other countries differently than Poland would you?

jwojcie wrote:


you're completely avoiding the question. i'll word it in a different way:

IF.....the USA announced TOMORROW that 1% of all Poles that visit america on a tourist visa overstay their visas and IF out of those 10% that get refused every year, 1% planned on overstaying.....would those numbers justify Poland's exclusion from the VWP?

IF NOT, what numbers would justify Poland's exclusion?

You cannot beg for numbers without having an idea of what numbers would be acceptable and what numbers wouldn't. Otherwise, what would be the point even if you had the real numbers in front of you, no?

Answer the question.

USA, Canada / Getting a VISA to USA by a Polish person nowadays [339]

Ironside wrote:


yeah......my questions still stand.

USA, Canada / Getting a VISA to USA by a Polish person nowadays [339]

hey jwojcie, let me ask you this:

if the embassy in warsaw refuses about 10% of Poles who apply for a tourist visa, and of those 10%, 2% actually were planning on overstaying/never coming back, would that be a lot in your eyes? would that justify a 10% refusal rate? where is your line? where do you finally say, "yeah, ok, now I understand why Poles still need visas"..............???

in addition, you need to ask yourself, of the 90% that get the visa, a certain percentage of those overstay every year as well. so where's your line for that? if 1% of all Poles that go to America on a tourist visa overstay/never return, is that too many?

what numbers are acceptable to you all?

USA, Canada / Getting a VISA to USA by a Polish person nowadays [339]

back on topic:

basically everyone i talk to these days gets a travel visa, no troubles. anyone know anybody who applied recently and got denied? i'd be curious to what kinds of people are getting denied travel visas because i've yet to have a friend/acquaintance that didn't get one.

USA, Canada / CULTURE SHOCK! (of my Polish finance who visited the US) [210]

Teffle wrote:


it's uncanny, right?

USA, Canada / CULTURE SHOCK! (of my Polish finance who visited the US) [210]

Teffle wrote:


yes. precisely.

you wrote that the rest of the world "doesn't take baseball seriously".....which is incorrect.

you then blew it out of proportion saying that I somehow suggested that it's as popular as soccer throughout the world.....i never said such a thing, I merely pointed out the inaccuracy of your statement. .

you then tried amending, or shall i say backpedalling in post #194 by adding "doesn't really take baseball seriously."

and here, we can see your attempt to win the argument on a technicality:


and here, we can see your last, and even more embarrassing attempt to save face by using a diversion:


well hardy har har, "mate". moving on.....

you got carried away and made inaccurate assumptions, thinking i was just being another arrogant ignorant american who couldn't accept the fact that something "american" wasn't as popular world wide as something else. you were wrong.

now fess up so we can move on to the next useless topic.

USA, Canada / CULTURE SHOCK! (of my Polish finance who visited the US) [210]

Teffle wrote:


are you playing dumb now? you know exactly why i wrote that. because you wrote THIS:


ring a bell?

you can find baseball in central/south america, Dominican Republic, Cuba, Mexico, Puerto Rico, Japan, Korea, China, Canada, Taiwan.....which would suggest that your statement is incorrect, "mate".

USA, Canada / CULTURE SHOCK! (of my Polish finance who visited the US) [210]

Teffle wrote:


how did you make that deduction from what i just typed? of course it doesn't, everyone knows soccer is the most widespread sport in the world.

Teffle wrote:


oh keep your panties on! i mean honestly, take a deep breath and address what is at hand instead of making up imaginary arguments.

USA, Canada / CULTURE SHOCK! (of my Polish finance who visited the US) [210]

Teffle wrote:


are you serious?

all of south america is INSANE about baseball. Japan? even MORE insane. actually, most asian countries have plenty of baseball.

every year in August the USA has the Little League World Series, there are teams from all over the world that fly in to compete.

USA, Canada / American...Polish Resident...Returning to the land of milk and honey [103]

geeze convex, seems like you're having a damn good time. why would you want to leave all that? i mean honestly, why leave the states to go live in some little apartment in europe again?

USA, Canada / CULTURE SHOCK! (of my Polish finance who visited the US) [210]

tygrys wrote:


hell, there isn't any hockey here either.

USA, Canada / CULTURE SHOCK! (of my Polish finance who visited the US) [210]

resident grubas wrote:


yeah....ain't it great?

USA, Canada / Which countries are Americans usually traveling to? [114]

nunczka wrote:


well, i've been here 4 years and worked my ass off to learn the language....but MAN would it have been easier if my grandmother had spoken to me when i was younger, would have had a lot more nights out here hanging out with friends instead of losing my temper while drilling the 7 cases.

guesswho wrote:


what, about the USA?

USA, Canada / Which countries are Americans usually traveling to? [114]

Marek11111 wrote:


he's a waste of time. completely useless posts. he's here for one reason and one reason only, to bash america. i bet he's another one that has never even been there. oh wait, don't tell me, he did the 2-week NYC-Chicago-LA half-ass tour with a Polish speaking tour guide and now he's got the whole country figured out based on that and Google.

guesswho wrote:


what do you mean?

nunczka wrote:


my mother is 100% polish but was born in america and doesn't speak a lick of polish. her father died long before i was alive but i spent my whole life before I left for Poland with her mother, she lived with me and my immediate family growing up.

to be honest, she didn't speak highly of poland at all. she came to america, fell in love with it and was a very proud american citizen. she didn't even bother to speak polish to me at home, saw no point. she visited in the 70's for a few weeks and said she couldn't wait for it to be over. obviously, that didn't dissuade me ;)

when i told her i was going to poland, she wasn't too happy. she knew what i was in for but was also happy i was "exploring".....but i still got a funny look when i told her.

as far as visiting once i'm back in the USA....to see my in-laws, that's about it. i sit around the apt. sometimes wondering what i will miss about this place and my conclusion is about the same as my wife's....we'll miss her family, nothing more. basically every aspect of our life is going to improve 100 fold once we're in the states so aside from maybe the odd polish dish here and there that won't be readily available there (not many poles or polish shops where i'm headed) i can't really think of something that i'll miss to be honest. BUT, i guess i gotta wait till i'm there, maybe i'll think of something.

USA, Canada / Which countries are Americans usually traveling to? [114]

generally, people only rate things on the internet when they have something bad to say.

good thread, it's what motivated me to make my last thread, "Rate Poland 1-10". it's funny to see how people defend poland tooth and nail, yet when it's time to rate it, lots of 5's and 6's come out of the same people when rating 'Quality of Life', 'People' and 'Culture'.

PennBoy wrote:


now consider how many america bashers on PF fall into the same exact category.

USA, Canada / REFUSED A HOLIDAY VISA TO THE U.S CAUSE IM POLISH [323]

ironside wrote:




let the record show that Ironside believes that 90% of all illegals living in America are "doing fine" because he reads up on his "mass media". that would be his only source of information because he doesn't know even ONE illegal immigrant living in the USA.

geeze, i'd love to hear some more of your great wisdom you've gathered from the internet, ironside. lemme guess, everyone in america carries a gun?

ironside wrote:


tell me something, ironside. Poland is out, these other countries are in. Why do you think this is so? Do you think the USA just feels like being a total douche to Poland and not giving them visa free travel? Do you believe it's all a big conspiracy against Poland? Where would the USA get motivation for something like this, to purposely block out Poland? To settle some past vendetta?

food for thought:

latvia 2.2 million people.

belarus 9.6 million

lithuania 2.9 million

czech republic 10.2 million

slovakia 5.4 million

number of poles living in the USA = approx. 10 million

If you combined the population of latvia, lithuania and slovakia, you'd be equal to the number of Poles living in the USA.

just sayin'.

USA, Canada / REFUSED A HOLIDAY VISA TO THE U.S CAUSE IM POLISH [323]

ironside wrote:


yep, all those low risk countries.

ironside wrote:


define "reasonable".

ironside wrote:


really? how many illegals do you know? have you ever been to america? if you have, did you talk to any illegals there? what did they say?

USA, Canada / REFUSED A HOLIDAY VISA TO THE U.S CAUSE IM POLISH [323]

ironside wrote:


who else?

ironside wrote:


i read it again. so?

ironside wrote:


can't argue that one. it's not a perfect system. not surprisingly, considering you have millions of people living illegally in the USA looking for a better life entering from thousands of miles of coastline and country borders, flying in legally and not returning.....yep, that's a lot of people to try and keep track of. you'd expect the system to not be able to prevent them all from living there illegally, forging documents, evading taxes or whatever else.........BUT, when they get caught....ding! ding! ding!, you're illegal baby. time to go back home!

USA, Canada / REFUSED A HOLIDAY VISA TO THE U.S CAUSE IM POLISH [323]

Ironside wrote:


i opened a business bank account in Poland with nothing more than my passport. so what?

Ironside wrote:


Here's how you get a driver's license in California, the state in the USA with the most illegal immigrants:

* Visit a DMV office (make an Appointment(s) for faster service)
* Complete application form DL 44 (An original DL 44 form must be submitted. Copies will not be accepted.)
* Give a thumb print
* Have your picture taken
* Provide your social security number. It will be verified with the Social Security Administration while you are in the office.
* Verify your birth date and legal presence If your current name no longer matches the name on your birth data/legal presence document, see “True Full Name” and “How to Change Your Name” for more information.

* Provide your true full name
* Pay the application fee
* Pass a vision exam
* Pass a traffic laws and sign test. There are 36 questions on the test. You have three chances to pass.(Sample Test)

Looks to me like you need a SS#, birth certificate and proof you are there legally.

Ironside wrote:


yep. Latvia = less risk.

Ironside wrote:


so?


so?

USA, Canada / REFUSED A HOLIDAY VISA TO THE U.S CAUSE IM POLISH [323]

ironside wrote:


yeah, i guess that's why we still won't give poland visa free travel. we're trying to solve the problem of immigration and it's cheaper for us to simply not let people get visas in the first place than to try and chase them down once they overstay.

ironside wrote:


the same way you can be a criminal of something else and simply not get caught for several years. BUT, all the while that criminal knows what he/she is doing is illegal and shouldn't complain once they're finally caught and have to pay the price.

if you are illegal, you know what you are doing. when you get caught, don't act surprised.

Food / Your single best-liked Wigilia dish? [29]

i have very limited Polish food cooking skills so i have nothing to mention as far as my own dishes but I just wanted to mention my favorite Wigilia dish. hands down, it's barszcz with "little ears". so simple and so delicious. i can't wait to eat it next week.

Life / Why Poland is "surprised" by winter and snow every year? [192]

aphrodisiac wrote:


kinky!

USA, Canada / REFUSED A HOLIDAY VISA TO THE U.S CAUSE IM POLISH [323]

tygrys wrote:


because that is the consequence of being the big stupid dad in a sitcom. he goes to work, makes money, keeps a nice house and his kids want for nothing, yet he's the target of ridicule and blame for the whole family, his wife included. it doesn't matter what dad does or how well he does it, he'll always be dumb sitcom dad yet he keeps his mouth shut and keeps plugging away because he knows in the end what really matters.

Work / Native English speaker from the US better than from the UK to find a job in Poland? [24]

delphiandomine wrote:


and age has a direct connection to ability in many cases.

let's take Business English:

Is a 23 year old guy, fresh out of college who has never had any sort of professional career and probably never even a full time job able to relate to a 33 year old guy with an upper management position? Does the 23 year old have his own business experiences, strategies, intuitions....?

he talks about his boss riding him every day, you've never had one.

he wants to discuss his annual performance evaluation, you've never had one.

he wants to talk about corporate culture, you have never been exposed to it.

he wants to discuss business strategies and how they work in practice, you've never practiced anything.

You can talk words, but you can't talk business and it's a legitimate request when a student asks for someone "older with more experience".

Think of it this way: is it necessary for a language school director to have language teaching experience? no. the job doesn't require you to teach, rather your main responsibilities are to sell contracts, keep the peace, run the school in an orderly way, manage your teachers and other staff and be a good spokesperson for the school. BUT.....could and would having previous language teaching experience make you a better director at a language school? most certainly.