PolishForums LIVE  /  Archives [3]    
   
Posts by Sokrates  

Joined: 19 Jan 2009 / Male ♂
Last Post: 1 Oct 2011
Threads: Total: 8 / In This Archive: 1
Posts: Total: 3335 / In This Archive: 1313
From: Poland
Speaks Polish?: Yes
Interests: Many and varied.

Displayed posts: 1314 / page 31 of 44
sort: Latest first   Oldest first   |
Sokrates   
17 Apr 2010
History / Battle of Grunwald 1410 The biggest medieval battle. Germans smashed. [174]

Can you get some more information about the Battle of Berestechko?

If someone doesnt delete my post again...

The exact opposing forces are still subject to debate since Poles inflated both numbers and Ukrainians dont have historical written records of it, the most reasonable estimates are:

Poles:
30.000 noble levy.
25.000 thousand regular troops.
10.000 Royal corps.

Grand total 65.000 troops.

Cossack/Tatar alliance.

80.000 Cossacks.
20.000 Tartars.

Grand total 100.000

The Cossacks were commanded by Chmielnicki and Tartars by chan Islam Girej. The Poles were commanded by king John Casimir, present were also both polish crown hetmans Mikołaj Potocki and Marcin Kalinowski.

Other polish high commanders were prince Jeremi Wiśniowiecki and Stanisław Lanckoroński.

The battle lasted 3 days from june 28 to june 30.

28. June.

The forces met at the town of Beresteczko, the first day of battle opened with light cavalry skirmishes.

Polish noble levy and noble dragoons met with several companies of Cossack cavalry, the Poles quickly gained the upper hand but Islam Girej threw several large units of mounted Tartars into the fight.

Polish commanders commited a noble dragoon regiment of Jerzy Lubomirski and a light sign regiment of Aleksander Koniecpolski, despite this Cossacks and Tartars repelled the polish attack.

The battle escalated as polish light cavalry was being slowly pushed back in the direction of its army positions.

As the evening neared Poles responded with a massed cavalry charge of armoured and winged hussar units under Czarniecki and Wiśniowiecki, these insantly swept the Cossack and Tartar light cavalry from the field but further advantage could not be taken due to the late hour.

29. June.

Emboldened by the success of their previous day countercharge the Poles prepared for the general assault of the allied positions, all of Polish cavalry (approximately 35.000) was assembled in front of the camp in battle formation.

The polish commanders moved their units too far from the camp however effectively preventing the powerfull royal artillery from supporting the fight.

At the same time Cossack-Tartar alliance was crossing Plaszówka river with a 45.000 strong cavalry unit, the largest cavalry engagement of the XVII century was about to begin.

The Plaszówka crossings were guarded by several companies of Zamoyski dragoons, after a brief firefight they fell back faced with overwhelming numerical superiority, the allies have crossed the river, at noon all 45.000 allied cavalry assembled at the other end of the plain facing the polish formations.

At around 12:30 Tartars and Cossacks begin assaulting the left flank of the polish army under Jeremi Wiśniowiecki with significant success, several polish dragoon regiments are rolled back under pressure.

At around 13:00 a flanking charge of the light sign regiment of Stanislaw Rewera Potocki annihilates several tartar sotnias and forces the allies to stop the attacks.

The Cossack and Tartar forces previously attacking the flank join with significant reinforcements and attack the polish centre where light sign regiments of Szczawiński and Lanckoroński are broken and scattered.

The allies then attempt to attack the fortified main polish camp but the artillery and infantry massed behind the fortifications stopped the attacks dead, flanking charges by heavy polish cavalry supported by dragoon fire result in extreme allied losses.

15:00

Cossacks and Tartars flee across the field pursued by Polish armored and light sign cavalry, however at one point the Poles fail to break off the pursuit and reach the main body of the Cossack/Tartar forces, the allies quickly encircle the Poles causing severe losses.

A royal winged hussar unit is severely decimated, Jan Sobieski is briefly captured.

Polish reaction is instant, Lubomirski leading 3000 Winged Hussars, Arquebusiers and Armored breaks the ring of allied forces and allows the decimated polish units to retreat back to the main line.

However the Tartars do not stop there, exploiting the gap between the polish centre and the engaged forces of the right wing they attack the centre and again decimate Lanckorońskis regiment, the battle rages for a full hour before a counterattack of light signs, noble levy and the regiment of Stanislaw Rewera manages to throw Tartars back.

At the end of the day Poles lost approximately 300 men and failed to gain any advantage, the second day belonged to the Cossack/Tartar alliance.

June 30.

As the armies stood ready to resume the fighting the allies were unaware of the polish change of plans, this day the full might of the army, the infantry and artillery would be brought to bear.

The army was reasembled, regiments of german type infantry (polish infantry trained and armed in the western fashion) and regiments of hungarian type infantry were led out from the camp, artillery was positions outside of fortifications.

The german and hungarian type infantry were assembled in a checkerboard pattern together with dragoons, backed by royal guard infantry and companies of reitars and arquebusiers.

11:00

Seeing that Cossacks are fortyfing their Tabor (defensive mobile camp) Wiśnowiecki leading 18 companies of winged hussars and armored and flanked by two light sign regiments charges the right wing of the Cossack army.

The countercharge of the allies is trampled into the ground instantly by heavy polish units, the infantry is overrun seconds later and the Poles start attack the Tabor itself, the situation is rescued by the flanking attack of Nurrad-din who's tartar cavalry manages to stop the polish assault.

Polish king John Casimir insantly sends units of levy and light signs, £ęczycki and Sieradzki regiments allow prince Jeremi to redirect his attack to Nurrad-dins relief force completely destroying it.

This engagement allows the scattered cossack regiments to rally however, when the tartar force is destroyed Wiśniowiecki again attacks the cossack line and this time completely destroys the defending regiments effectively besieging the tabor camp.

At the same time 15.000 tartars under Amurat are still not engaged, this force had to be destroyed.

Polish royal corpse is ordered forward at around 14:00.

Moving in checkerboard pattern infantry and dragoons stop every 40 meters to fire, supported by light artillery the entire vast formation of 7000 men moves slowly across the field, Amurat attacks the royal division time and again but is repelled by a hail of fire suffering horrendous losses.

At the same time Wiśniowiecki is again repelled from the Tabor by Nurrad-din and forced to fall back to the royal division, however at this point many of the most valuable Cossack cavalry have been slaughtered.

The tartars whos losses by now reach half their total force and continue to lose hundreds of men, the inability of Cossacks to aid in the assault having lost much of their cavalry and the slowly approaching royal division finally lead to tartar Chans nervous breakdown.

At 16:30 an event that would finally break the spirit of the Tartars happened, the Polish kings retinue moving behind the ever advancing royal division was shot at by a small tartar unit.

In retribution polish artillery general Przyjemski located the Chans command positions and ordered heavy artillery barrage killing most of the tartar brass in one single strike, the tartars were finally broken, Islam Girej ordered retreat, Chmielnicki attempting to stop the retreating tartars is abducted by them.

Initially the tartars retreat slowly but a massed charge of polish cavalry together with rolling artillery barrages change this retreat into a panicked bloody rout, the tartars flee from the field.

The battle was over.

The siege of Tabor.

After the battle the Poles besieged the camp, siege artillery caused horrific losses each day as Cossacks attempted to build a crossing across the river Plaszówka, an assault was imminent the only thing the Poles waited for were superheavy siege guns from Lwów and Brody.

On the morning of the 10 July Cossack commander Ivan Bohun left the camp with several companies of cavalry for reconessaince, the starving and frightened Cossacks interpreted it as their commander abandoning them, panic broke out, polish army used it to storm the camp.

30.000 Cossacks were killed, among them women and children.

The total Tartar-Cossack death toll in the battle and siege was over 70.000 and 15.00 captured, Poles lost 850 men.

I had to abandon loads of details but the detailed description would go into 100+ pages.
Sokrates   
15 Apr 2010
News / GERMANS WANT TO GERMANIZE KOPERNIK (COPERNICUS)! OUTRAGE! [1016]

Read the thread again about his "polish studies"....and there wasn't "german agression" at that point....

Point in fact he defended polish interests of a polish king, he commanded a polish regiment and the infantry that assaulted the city was made up of Germans sooo...

All his studies were in in latin, latin was the official administrative language of Poland, he never wrote a single scientific work in polish or german languages.
Sokrates   
14 Apr 2010
UK, Ireland / Polish and Irish should love each other [65]

So judging by that Poles would be equal to - Slovakians, Iraqis, Indians, Koreans, Iranians, Greeks, etc....

Hell no, Poles are descended from Jesus himself.

True Poles are equal to Poles only in the eyes of Sokrates, why taint other nations with the same brush.

See? You're finally seeing the light, i'm willing to adopt Russian girls though.

Sok, you are full of provocative bull sometimes.

Lies and slander Sean, lies and slander.
Sokrates   
14 Apr 2010
News / Who will be the next President of Poland? [51]

what do you guys think who can be next president of poland.

Komorowski.

He is acting prime minister for now.

He's acting president, Tusk is the prime minister.
Sokrates   
14 Apr 2010
UK, Ireland / Polish and Irish should love each other [65]

Irish (and British) - the best people I've ever met. The most recent tragic deaths of two Poles in Dublin should not create hate between Poles and Irish. Let's love and respect each other, guys. Love and peace!

Irish are not even human beings, why would i love them? They're almost as bad as English, Scottish, Germans or French, not as bad as Americans, Spanish or Russians though.

Ireland is not, never has been, nor ever will be "slavic".

Better start learning Polish b*tch, the "lets work in UK" is just a cover up, our stormtroopers are coming.

the assistance the Irish gave to the Poles in their insurrections

Stalin was Irish.
Sokrates   
14 Apr 2010
News / Kaczynski to be buried at Wawel ?! [289]

What's the criteria for greatness and how did Lech meet it?

He wasnt great he was average and thats that, he didnt achieve or even strive for anything that would justify Wawel.

Last parliamentary elections showed, that most of Poles prefer liberal left to a vision of Kaczyński brothers,

Way to overinterpret.
Sokrates   
13 Apr 2010
News / Kaczynski to be buried at Wawel ?! [289]

It is a controversial decision. Then again, people are often buried away from where some would like them to be

Jesus Sean, i dont know whether its because you're so extremely leftist or just not Polish, its Wawel, people buried there are not only great Poles, they're human beings of huge caliber even when you disregard their nationality, its just not right.

I'm not sure protesting is right as well since there should be no divisions between us at a moment like this but still, Wawel?
Sokrates   
13 Apr 2010
News / Kaczynski to be buried at Wawel ?! [289]

Together with the extinct Polish nobility,

Last i checked they were alive and kicking, quite a lot of them around too, dinners at Brzeska always full.

Poles are emotional people and it seems emotion has now superceded common sense.

Quite a lot of Poles are opposed, in fact there was a demonstration in Kraków about 2 hours ago.
Sokrates   
13 Apr 2010
News / Kaczynski to be buried at Wawel ?! [289]

How?

For example by having Sikorski stay in Poland instead of attenting EU meeting which resulted in our loss of official positions.

PO is infiltrated by german christian-democrats to a massive extent, while the exact reason for it remains unclear it cannot be good and their moves due to which Poland loses more influence (and harbors and industry) show that Poland is victim of outside influence and inside treachery.

Thats not to say PiS was flowers and sunshine but better home grown idiots than people on foreign payroll.
Sokrates   
13 Apr 2010
News / Kaczynski to be buried at Wawel ?! [289]

most every person I knew thought he was the joke of Polish politics.

Thats mainly because of how he said things, not what he said, Kaczyński was acutely aware of our national interest and attempted to protect it against all odds, PO on the other hand simply sold Poland to Germany.

Thats not to say he was not a clumsy arrogant fool but unlike Tusk he was a patriot and felt for Poland.

In the end i prefer an honest fool over a classy cynial prick.
Sokrates   
9 Apr 2010
History / Why did Hitler kill so many Jews in Poland? [261]

could go to work killing Jews with more bestiality in the East than in the West as he knew that in the West this would never be

Still a focking moronic racist arent you? Of course it was tolerated, France was far more anti-semitic then any other country in Europe bar Germany.
Sokrates   
7 Apr 2010
History / Why are Jews pestering Poland for "proper" WW2 monetary restitution/reparations? [750]

Don't you think german kids were not beaten for being unwilling to learn???

Not like that no, also their parents were not being sent to prison for supporting them, the event of Września was the first of its kind in that students were flogged or arrested.

Another time when students were flogged was when they sang Pole instead of Preussen during music class, thats normal to you?
Sokrates   
7 Apr 2010
History / Why are Jews pestering Poland for "proper" WW2 monetary restitution/reparations? [750]

That's the official Polish version of history. You call it occupation while the rest of the world calls it annexation.

Which is pretty much the same.

Oh please, we are talking modern Prussia here who even gave Jews equal rights and citizenship not Nazi-Germany!

Yet children were beaten to the blood for refusing to learn religion in German and people were booted from their homes for being Polish.

Poles were citizens like Huguenotts, Jews and other minorities...Prussia was rather multikulti to it's high time!
It was all legal done after treaties...you know...like the Treaty of Versailles much later!

Nope, Poles were members of an occupied nation, being occupied is different than being a minority, it wasnt legally done because Poland did not agree to it, invasion and forcefull theft of property to which you have no claim is legal how? Based on your logic gassing Jews was legal as well.
Sokrates   
7 Apr 2010
History / Why are Jews pestering Poland for "proper" WW2 monetary restitution/reparations? [750]

They BOUGHT lands from the Poles??? What a mean thing to do!!!

Given that it was racially motivated, yeah a pretty mean thing to do, it failed mostly because Germans didnt want to move and Poles organised an even better counter-purchase movement.

"Non-citizens" being booted out? Well, that happens in one form or another in most countries today too...

Hold on champ, Germany stole the lands these people were on, Prussian goverment had no legal right to even name Poles as Prussian citizens or Poland as Prussia, we can agree that might makes right but then it again boils down to common theft.

As far as I know most Poles actually WERE prussian citizens during the partitions (in Prussia that is)

We're talking about Poland here, primarily Poznań and the Greater Poland.

Give me more!

Google Children of Września, Polish language was banned as an official language in Poland.

PS: I just doubt more and more living in the prussian part of the partitions was the "living hell" some Poles like to see it:

I'm not saying it was living hell but it was not fun and games, bottom line is Poles were denied their national practices in their own country.

"...In this age of Science and Industry, Prussia boasted one of the most modern societies of Europe and it's polish citizens were free to reap the benefits!"

In other words Polish national conscience would not be bought with moola, if anything thats a thing to be proud of.
Sokrates   
7 Apr 2010
History / Why are Jews pestering Poland for "proper" WW2 monetary restitution/reparations? [750]

Are there other cases? A law or something? Because knowing my Prussians there might be something wrong with the planned house rather than a law against Poles having property...

Apart from colonisation comitee that bought up Polish lands to re-sell them to German colonists (lands that Poles had to sell for the lowest market price) and the so called "Rugi Pruskie" that saw 26.000 Poles booted from their homes and lands because they couldnt provide evidence of being Prussian citzens? Plenty.
Sokrates   
7 Apr 2010
History / Why are Jews pestering Poland for "proper" WW2 monetary restitution/reparations? [750]

If only it was that simple. From what I understand those that have tried have been fobbed off.

1. Proof of ownership is needed.
2. Be prepared to pay for any rebuilding and investments the state did.
3. You need to be a direct descendant.
4. You need to be prepared to face issues that Convex describes, there can be as many as two Polish Commonwealths none of which are continued in todays govt.

The people you described have often been some distant relative or just a person without papers to validate their claims, of course they've been told to shove off, no one is giving out money for free just because people feel they're entitled to them.

Huh? Do you have a link for that?

He means the germanisation strategies of Prussia, Poles needed state approved permit to own lands and the Prussian govt did everything within legal bonduaries to abuse this law.

A famous example was that of Michał Drzymała, when Prussians denied him right to erect a house on his property he bought a circus wagon, the Germans pulled a number on him telling him his wagon cant stay in one place more than 24 hrs so he moved it 2 feet each day.

It took several years to dislodge him but it portrays the attitude of Germans in Prussia toward Poles, still they did work within legal bonduaries even if they tried to abuse them at every step.
Sokrates   
7 Apr 2010
UK, Ireland / Female health in Britain - Polish view [105]

That's irresponsible, and guys are missing out on a good occasion to show care and maturity, and hold your hand before your first pelvic.

WTF?
Sokrates   
6 Apr 2010
History / Teaching our kids about Poland's History [57]

Since we all know that Poland's history is not well known in the world, we must ask ourselves what exactly can we do about it?

Quite a lot, make a good movie for example, the last good historic movie was "The Deluge" "With Fire and Sword" sucked dirty orifice by comparison.

Also good marketing, make PC games about our history, enter the mainstream with MacDonalds version of it, our history is enough to make 1000 awesome movies yet no one touches it because Polish cinematography sucks.
Sokrates   
5 Apr 2010
History / Actually, there never was any Polish-German hatred [149]

Well, most of the original Silesians are now in Germany...whereas most of today Silesians are former eastern Poles...

If you mean Lower Silesians then yeah, if you mean Silesians as in Silesia then no, most of them are natives.
Sokrates   
5 Apr 2010
History / Jagiełło's blunder or design? [6]

To overthrow the Teutonic state would have removed the pretext for Polish-Liithuanian alliance. If Lithuania, which wasbigger territorially than Poland at that time, had gone it alone, the Polish Comonwealth might have never come to pass. Who is right?

Lithuania was technologically two hundred years behind Poland and the Teutons and it had less than 1/10th population of Poland, there was a very real threat that Poles might end up being a new teutonic order for Lithuanians, the continued existence of the TO was required for the alliance not to turn on Lithuania.
Sokrates   
29 Mar 2010
History / The heroic jump of the 1st Polish Independent Paratrooper Brigade [81]

Bratwurst Boy: GREECE for fucksake???

How is Greeks being retards about their economy relevant?

Bratwurst Boy: Economical and social basket cases even as they are hanging for years on the tits of the EU! Poland is above them already if you like it or not! ;)

Poland is also above Ukraine or Belarus, being above third world countries or a bunch of spendy idiots doesnt change our here and now situation.

jonni: That's true.

You're not people, you're a person, sometimes.

jonni: You feel qualified to speak for all 40 million?

Of course not but i'm more "qualified" then you, being Polish and all.
Sokrates   
29 Mar 2010
History / The heroic jump of the 1st Polish Independent Paratrooper Brigade [81]

Bratwurst Boy:Well...not anymore I would think. Right now Poland looks good compared to some "older" western countries.

In what regard? C'mon we dont have any political elites, our economy is in shambles when compared to all large western states.

So you're sitting wherever, writing the usual bile, nastiness and vulgarity while claiming to be "suffering" from something?

Yep pretty much.

While others, actually in Poland, old enough to have really suffered just get on with life.

So do i, i never really mistread anyone based on my political or historical views, of course someone could make a point that i verbally abuse people like you but thats only because you can be a f*cking idiot sometimes.

Interesting that you use the word "we". Opens a whole Pandora's Box, that does...

We the Poles, we the Germans, we the French, you know the whole nationality concept thats been around for the last 140 years?
Sokrates   
29 Mar 2010
History / The heroic jump of the 1st Polish Independent Paratrooper Brigade [81]

jonni: I see what you mean. My point though is that those who raise the same points evey day were not there. Most are under 30. Those who survived those times tend to have a pragmatic attitude.

But we suffer the indirect consequences so your point needs to be flushed down a toilet like so much ****.
Sokrates   
28 Mar 2010
History / The heroic jump of the 1st Polish Independent Paratrooper Brigade [81]

Of course, you still had to put people somewhere and its easier to rebuild destroyed cities, even from scratch rather then erect new ones.

Today we discuss it as political issues but back then Poland had over four milion homeless people and winter was coming, taking German homes wasnt a matter of retribution but a matter of survival, even as late as 1947 there were families living in makeshift barracks waiting for homes to be rebuilt or city districts to be de-mined.