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Posts by z_darius  

Joined: 18 Oct 2007 / Male ♂
Last Post: 27 Jun 2011
Threads: Total: 14 / In This Archive: 3
Posts: Total: 3960 / In This Archive: 1099
From: Niagara, Ontario
Speaks Polish?: Somewhat

Displayed posts: 1102 / page 3 of 37
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z_darius   
23 May 2011
Study / Anyone know anyone/ any school that teaches Polish in/around Zakopane? [6]

That could be tricky.
The local dialect is incomprehensible to may Poles in the rest of the country. You'll need to ensure you get someone who actually speaks Polish so that the next time you order a shot of "pelenka" in the rest of Poland, they know you mean "wódka".
z_darius   
23 May 2011
Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]

The 'shit'.'sheet' opposition reinforces the axiom that absolute predictability in language is basically impossible;

Agreed, within the human scope there aren't all that many absolute rules, but they seem to be present within various classes of populations that could be classified based on their linguistic heritage. Chomsky's universals and the overall body of his research, incorrectly seen by some to be contrary to the above, deal with what I wold call a higher level of linguistic awareness and aptitude.

Interestingly, "shit" happens not only to Poles. Native speakers of Spanish are known step into it too.
z_darius   
23 May 2011
History / Poland's biggest historical blunder? [341]

Ah, the classical approach to Polish history: blame the British and/or the Jews for everything, what a refreshing change.

Kinda like the British breaking the treaties with Czekoslovakia in 1938 so that Germans could take it over and then blaming Poles for taking back a few hectares from the Czechs already betrayed by the British and French.

Mostly Americans who did that, actually.

In the US the destruction can be indeed mostly on the young democratic and freedom loving Americans. While taxation did play a role in the war of Independence, its direct cause was the British deal with those of the Indian Country (Illinois and surrounding States). The deal guaranteed that Indians would be left alone there and that no further expansion of the British into those lands would occur. You won't find that info in American curricula below the university level.

In Canada the situation was much better. The British appreciated the Indian help in fighting Americans so they did actually allow the "savages" to live as long as they were not too Indian. The residential school system setup by the British was of much help in trying to achieve the task.
z_darius   
23 May 2011
History / Poland's biggest historical blunder? [341]

Always assumed it would had played out that way which is far from sure...

I have not presented the scenario as a fact. We don't know how any of the imaginary changes of the past discussed here, by me and others, would have influenced the present time. It's been a popular view among some historians that had Vienna fallen, western Europe would have been wide open for the Turks to do as they pleased. Even during the events in question the alarm bells were clear and loud.
z_darius   
23 May 2011
Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]

The latest linguistic puke I saw yesterday in a Polish paper's headline:

Obama 'resetuje' stosunki w Europie.

My take is this: they hire people who spent significant amount of time in the US/UK, enough to be seriously comfortable with English and they ask them to translate foreign articles, with a few words of their own thrown in, to avoid copyright issues.
z_darius   
23 May 2011
Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]

My point about "czy" vs. "trzy" is that perhaps to a non-Pole, both sound alike, to a Pole, probably not, anymore than "vin"/"veingt" sound identical to a non-Frenchman, yet maybe subtely different to a native Frenchman-

I think we're back to the issue of interference (unlearning the old is sometimes harder than learning the new) and the degree of attention. Given a few moments to hear the sounds again a foreigner will easily discern between the sounds. Without practice, and equipped only with the native language (non Slavonic) the listener's brain will automatically search for the sound that is closest to sounds already within the listener's experience.

This happens millions of times a day when people say "shit" instead of "sheet", or "ass" instead of "as", "hut" instead of "hat", with the last examples (or in wider sense, vowels) being particularly vicious to Poles learning English.

The phenomenon of interference, or sometimes simple lack of experience in perceiving certain stimuli is true of many other sensory based interactions.
z_darius   
23 May 2011
Love / I need advice: divorce and my rights as a father in Poland [165]

Kurt, it seems you are the same guy who sought advice here on how to avoid paying taxes that you would have to pay if you establish Poland as your residence (180+ days per year in Poland).

Sorry to hear that the personal life is not going to well theses days, but perhaps it would be good for you to realize at this point about various ramifications of your proposed move to Poland. If wifey is a ***** she will make sure the Polish tax man will learn abut your British business. Heck, if she doesn't volunteer if will transpire when it comes to the money side of the possible divorce. Poland and UK have very, very close relations in the matter and if the Polish government finds itself in the position to ask the Brits about your income on the Isles, they will get the information down to every last penny you make.

As for the family law, the court will likely go for an upper range of national averages as they pertain to Poland's realities, but nothing as crazy as the American system where (mostly) fathers get sucked dry.

As mentioned above, seeking legal advice, save for trying to fix the family, is pretty much the best thing you can do.
z_darius   
23 May 2011
History / Poland's biggest historical blunder? [341]

The CIA black site in Szymany.

That's not even a blimp on Poland's history, and even less significant to Poland's standing than British government's theft of British children from their poor parents and sending them to the colonies, where in many cases their status was de facto that of slaves. I met a few Britons like that here in Canada. Uprooted and broken lives and destroyed families. Few of Poland's blunders come even close to the colossal fukcup that is now the legacy of the British rampage around the world that lasted a few centuries, and the world is still paying the price.

In my view, the Poland's greatest blunder was annihilating Turkish forces at the time of the Siege of Vienna.
Poland should have played it out, ironically, the British way - divide and rule and use others to fight your wars.

Poles should have waited for Vienna to fall, and for Turks to move on much further West, destroying some decently large patches of German and France. Polish attack should have been delayed, perhaps to when Paris was just about to fall, or shortly thereafter. Shortly thereafter would have been better since less French would have remained. Turkish would have perhaps chopped off a few of the Western royals' heads and the resulting balance of power might have prevented Poland's partitions from ever occurring.
z_darius   
23 May 2011
Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]

You argumentation here is very shady. Venus has its unique diameter, mass, spectral lines and their intensities that made this planet uniquely Venus. Classification of sounds in languages is by default a lot more arbitrary, given the criteria that are assumed.

This shows yet again that you don't have even an approximate idea about the methods linguists use. You accept spectral analysis used by astronomers but you reject spectral analysis used by linguists? How do you think speech recognition software is possible? Computer's arbitrary decisions?

If there is anything arbitrary here this is your statements about linguistics.

I did none of those things.

True, it was Anetk. You only chose not to comment on his obvious mistake. So in fact, I am grateful for the example of Swiebodzin jargon that showed him wrong.

I never claimed to hear /k/

You never claimed to /g/ either so either way, for all practical purposes you were ejecting the log establish facts that have been researched by linguists for centuries and confirmed by the more modern tools of the trade.

It'd be nice to understand light interference before mentioning it as an example.

It'd be nice if you first read my post more carefully before making this comment.

Meanwhile, trying to analyze "także", there's nothing that was automatically shut off

Since you still insist on the use of "arbitrary" when it comes to linguistics, and since yours are clearly statements stemming from your (also self admitted) ignorance in this area of study, the above doesn't need addressing anymore.

"Some" being the key word. My sister studied etnolinguistics and had only one semester of logic (if we classify it as part of mathematics and not the reverse), which is laughable!

First, I made no statements about our sister's curriculum.

Second, various academia offer various subjects, and may are a matter of choice. Much like pretty much any area of study. I met once an English Lit. graduate of a British University. During one of the debates (he was our teacher in Poland) it turned out he never ready Chaucer(!!!), because that was an elective. In an English dept. of a University. In London UK!

Etnolinguistics is just a field of linguistics the fact that someone who studied it had to take few to no math courses proves nothing.
z_darius   
21 May 2011
Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]

"Eye kant reed inglish tu wel."

Would the equivalent of the above disconnect between sound and script be possible in any language OTHER than Mod. En.??

he example you gave reminds me of my attempts to read a book in Czech. I understood approximately nothing. So I equipped myself with some basic phonetic skills of the language and I started reading he book aloud. Suddenly I could understand the essence of what I was reading. I still can't claim any knowledge of the Czech language.

But to answer your question, I think the example indeed shows how spelling/speech skills are interconnected through experience that can turn into linguistic interference. I kinda ran out of my morning slacking time so just off the bat:kantis reminiscent of kannt, inglish of inglisc/ingles, welis obviously well, I saw reed written by anglo-speakers where read should have been present. So the words are out there and some people are using them, it's just that either they are not English words, or English but "slightly" misspelled.

Further to my previous post on graphical ease of spelling, and directed to Koala and Antek, my impression is that you may be close to professions where you have o be aware of computer programing. Take an random procedure or function, say 50 to 100 lines of code and delete all EOL, i.e. make the code to be one long line and compile it. The compiler won't even flinch but good luck with visual debugging, or even basic understanding of what the function does. It's psychology at work. We need structures,visual representations etc. That essential part, in computer programming, is called... surprise, surprise... syntax.

But human ear easily ignores much worse noise, and what's more - missing speech portion can be easily "interpolated" by brain.

Turns out, we are quite analogue ;)

It's an interesting thread and I'll be back, in the interest of domestic tranquility I better do some work around the house.
z_darius   
21 May 2011
Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]

I'll have to give in and say that if phonetics experts say that's the same sound, I'll have to rely on it. But that's one big problems for me in general - it describes qualitatively, not quantitatively, which makes everything rely on blurry statements and authority, not on empirical data like normal exact science.

There is no power of authority involved. Phonetics an phonology is a science, and as such, it is subject to peer review. The fact that you lack the skill or the tools doesn't make linguistic statements false. The fact that I have no idea which of the little twinkling things on the sky Venus, and that I do not own even a basic telescope, doesn't mean Venus is not there. Looking at various stars I see some are obviously bigger than others. Is it because they are loser? Brighter?

That you hear /k/ where /g/ is present is not unsurprising either. That's the interference you get from, ironically, basic education i.e. the skill of spelling. The word is spelled with a /k/ so you assume that this is what you hear and sometimes, as it became apparent, the illusion is hard to get over with. Somewhat similar phenomena occur with our visual faculties. I'm sure you know of many examples of visual illusion where you see a bent line, but the line is in fact straight and you can check it with a ruler. The ruler is a tool you know how to use. Linguistics, as you admit, is not among the tools at your disposal.

An example a little closer to linguistics, and specifically within the sphere of psycholinguistics, is one where a few words are misspelled, such as:

Cna yuo raed tihs?

The snetence is obviosly misspeld so it uses strings that do not exist in the English language, and yet understandable. Why? The answer is simple. It's our education. We have read these same words for a long, long time, over and over again. We no longer read words letter by letter. Instead we ended up learning their shapes. That is a sign we did well in our early yeas of education, but it also made us skip some of those misspelling when we proofread text written by ourselves. Words' shapes look fine so we miss the detail. That is also the reason why ALL CAPS ARE SO MUCH HARDER TO READ. THAT IS BECAUSE WE NEED TO CONCENTRATE MORE ON INDIVIDUAL LETTERS TO UNDERSTAND THE WORDS. Thatisalsothereasonwhyweincludespacesbetweenwordssowecandiscernindivid ualwordsmoreeasilly and why some German word, too many non-Germans, are so hard to read unless you spent a lot of time practicing.

To use the astronomical example above; good luck finding Venus on a clear night sky in Manhattan, NY. Too much light pollution (interference). People simply do not get to see the stars anymore. Which leads us to a little factual trivia.

When a few years ago the entire North East of the US and Canada went dark (massive power failures) emergency departments of larger cities in the affected area received a significant, number of calls. I heard about thousands of people who were reporting strange, lit objects on the sky. It turned out those were the stars. Both sad and funny, but for us here yet another example of how our experience sometimes throws us off in the way we perceive pictures, sounds, smells, touch (cold can feel hot) etc.

It's not hard to admit defeat as there's no battle in the first place, unless you treat a discussion as such, which tells more about you than anything else.

See? You're doing this again. Like you did when you put so much stress on who left Poland when, and whether someone knows a local jargon. That caused a blow back effect, as it turns out living in Poland doesn't ensure someone knows it all about the Polish language.

It'd make much sense in that even a book like "A Hundred Years of Solitude" could be analyzed quantitatively (statistically) if you knew what data could be useful for your goals and how to extract it.

This is a common misconception among those, for the lack of a better word, uninitiated. The popular view is that linguists just talks about talking. Some talk about how people should talk. That's prescriptive linguistics and I am far from being its fan. Punch Lyzo instead :) Anyway, linguistics encompasses may branches of science and art and it is is much larger than can be perceived by a casual observer.

Mathematics, logic and statistical analysis is in fact of curriculum in some linguistics departments. The courses may bear names not immediately associated with math (such as Computational Linguistics), but math is an essential tool used in those courses. Interestingly, linguistics is also used by mathematicians and computer scientists. Chomsky hierarchy was the basis for compiler construction and automata theory.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chomsky_hierarchy
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automata_theory

So when you drop those few lines in the IDE of some compiler, wheather you're stuck with C++ or moved on to C# or Java, you are using the results of extensive linguistic research. Check the links just for kicks.

It's a fascinating area of study and I ad a chance to be exposed to it when I studied psychology. It was useful and I was getting my English Lit. degree and indispensable when I was taking compiler construction in Computer Science (incidentally, taught by a Pole, with a terrible English accent, from the University of Wroclaw).
z_darius   
21 May 2011
Off-Topic / How do Polish people operate? what makes them tick? [103]

How typical, attacking America and it's policies. The thread is about Poles. You got you a** kicked here because you expected to have thing provided for you. You had been given opportunities. Just because you did not know how to take them, you are bitter. That's it.

I was given opportunities and I used them. I can't see your point.

We are talking about people, everyday folks.

Until everyday folks EVERYWHERE realize they are being screwed noting will change, not for Poles, not for Americans.
z_darius   
21 May 2011
Off-Topic / How do Polish people operate? what makes them tick? [103]

No matter what anybody says, thinking and responding 'the American way' is great. When you debate something in this country, I mean when regular folks talk), they will hear you first - then respond.

You mean those rehearsed talk shows?
There is no debate in th US to speak of.
The rule of thumb is this:

Americans screw around in another resource rich country.
People of that country blow up a US ship or whatever.
The US states: they hate us for our freedoms
US either sends troops, or weapons and cash to support the local dictator
Americans buy yellow ribbon magnets (made in china) and to support the American troops they stick the magnets on their cars
z_darius   
21 May 2011
Off-Topic / How do Polish people operate? what makes them tick? [103]

This has to be today's record of packing as much BS into two sentences as possible, and I don't think anyone could reasonably dignify this with a response.

These words are not even a secret. You just refuse to believe that your taxes are used to kill innocent people all around the world. And yes, as a Pole, I am ashamed my country went for that too.

I will, however, point out the template behind your typical response, which can be paraphrased into "Even though I don't understand what you guys are saying, you're saying something critical about Poland so I'm going to respond with, America sucks, too."

I'll tell you what the template is: preemptive strike, that's what. And that is the American doctrine that seems to have gone through the core of the nation on all levels. Attack others and try to look better. Well, it's not working. Too many people know what America stands for these days. You're not one of those people.

And not that there are no reasons to criticize America, but the stuff that you invariably come up with is never insightful, never accurate, just the same stuff, repeated over and over, without any reflection or concern for truth.

What's repeated is the same state sponsored lies via what you call media in the US. You don't have the guts to learn the truth. You are a product of manufactured consent and you refuse to seek the truth. It is much too embarrassing for Americans to admit, so instead they will look out for yet another nation to harm and to ridicule.

I would agree with my wife here (for a change)... Someone told me that repeating the same thing over and over is a sign of being insecure.

Nothing original.
Others have already said that about you in this thread.
Greetings for your wife who apparently knows you well.
z_darius   
21 May 2011
Off-Topic / How do Polish people operate? what makes them tick? [103]

Why, because they're clueless about what is going on outside of their country.

You're a perfect example of that.

Believe me, I'm no an example you're looking for.
I am outside of my country and I know yours very, very well. And I wish your gangsters pack up and leave alone the 190 counties where you have military bases because everybody hates your for your freedoms. But that would require moe Amerians to go outside their country and see what's going on, since their government just keeps on lying.

clean up the mess your government presides over before you lecture Poles.

You have it backwards. You won't find Americans playing the victim card.

oh yeah?
hate you for your freedoms?
Oh, poor poopsies! Got bombed on 9/11. Imagine that!

They hate you for your crimes, and for the freedoms you either take away or help being taken away from them, and some hate you for your stupidity and complicity.

picture removed.

why's that?
don't we want to see where our tax is going?
z_darius   
21 May 2011
Off-Topic / How do Polish people operate? what makes them tick? [103]

POLAND is a country that foreigners criticise at their peril. Even the mildest mention of habitual unpunctuality, brusque telephone manners or bad roads can prompt a lengthy and emotional review of the outside world's insensitive and ignorant attitude to the country's tragic history.

I won't refer to Poland's tragic history so let me say this is no different than Americans.
Sounds like "they hate us for our freedoms", doesn't it?

picture removed.
z_darius   
21 May 2011
Language / Could a native Polish speaker give me all the rules for Polish pronunciation? [5]

Could a native Polish speaker, please give me all the rules for Polish pronunciation?

all the rules?
here on this form?

You won't get this here. Look on some external links, but for ALL the rules you'll need to get some serious literature.
grzegorj.jzn.pl/gram/gram00.html
z_darius   
20 May 2011
Law / Polish law on child smacking now vs. pre 2010 [7]

I think it's still in force

as a kid I really appreciated this little booklet. No two major tests on a single day, and a week advance notice was required, no name calling etc.

when you look at it, the actual laws passed by the Communists were terribly progressive for the time. I actually know one lawyer who praises a lot of the PRL law as it's written, simply for being detailed and very clear.

The theory was great indeed. They often are. Sadly, a lot of these rules end up being purely theoretical regardless of the political system.
z_darius   
20 May 2011
Language / Classical statements of love, in Polish [3]

classical is just names plus the date.
If you want something more unambiguous then perhaps "Załóż z powrotem" (put it back on)
z_darius   
20 May 2011
Love / American marrying Polish woman in Poland - Church problems [79]

The whole recognition issue by RC may be a pretty complicated thing. For instance, during commie times, a priest would not marry two people if they didn't have have civil marriages papers first. The reason was that RC marriage alone was not legally recognized by the government.

So one way of looking at it is that RC will recognize ALL marriages, but those marriages will not necessarily be recognized before God. The God thing is what warszawski mentioned and this is an important part that seems to have gone largely unnoticed. Further to that, RC church won't marry two people if one is still married, even outside any religion. At that point it's not a question of dogma but civil law that the Church would be breaking by allowing polygamy (depending on the country).

It may (stress on MAY) be a case that a priest could decide he wants to sea a divorce instituted by the same authority that had previously married the couple.
z_darius   
20 May 2011
Life / Flowers for my Polish teacher. What kind should I bring? [11]

A few "rules" to be aware of:

- make sure they are (relatively) fresh cut, no dried stuff
- chrysanthemums - best for cemeteries, funerals
- carnations - bring associations withe the commie era
- no potted plants
- no artificial flowers, no matter how good the Chinese factory is
- always an odd number (even number brings bad luck)
- red roses good if you want to show a sign of love, but never on the first date

that's all I can think about.
z_darius   
20 May 2011
Law / Polish law on child smacking now vs. pre 2010 [7]

Yeah, according to people who feel the need to overpower children.

Chief Justice Beverley McLachlin stated that under Section 43, criminal law does not apply when force "is part of a genuine effort to educate the child, poses no reasonable risk of harm that is more than transitory and trifling, and is reasonable under the circumstances."

Spanking by parnets in UK is legal too.

Because the Communist era laws, as written, provided a hell of a lot of protection and were somewhat ahead of their Western counterparts.

The protection of children in schools was certainly way ahead of the West, not only in corporal discipline. The by-laws were described in early 1970's in what was called "Kodeks Ucznia" (Pupil's Code). Is it still in force, or did the democratic processes manage to get rid of it?
z_darius   
20 May 2011
Law / Polish law on child smacking now vs. pre 2010 [7]

apparently, smacking a child can be a part of educational process

But I cannot imagine it was legal to use a belt in 2009 - that much, I can tell you for free.

why not?
z_darius   
19 May 2011
Love / American marrying Polish woman in Poland - Church problems [79]

Wrong again.
The marriage can be completely legal and still annulled.
You haven't checked what the term means, have you?

Something about even if it was civil wedding, the fact that I am not baptized means no way it can be, I guess?

By RC rules, if you were not baptized you can not be legally married by a RC priest. Ergo, your marriage was never legal.