Law / Business in Poland and Polish reality, How are you doing in Poland? [82]

Hi Christian,

Indeed, I thought about airport trips to both airports: Krakow and Katowice but unfortunately the bus is too big for that purpose, it's a 30 seater+driver, and usually people with small buses like up to 25 seaters to these sort of trips (I would say 9 seaters mainly), fuel consumption is much lower in them, also they seems smaller and easier to drive, and trust me, you don't want to find yourself in the situation where you having less than 9 people which you need to take...

Law / Business in Poland and Polish reality, How are you doing in Poland? [82]

Rosstech is fantastic, I will able to indicate the faults with my cars and fix the issues myself, it will even provide you with original part number of item you require. I have currently two audi cars and I decided to buy all of the stuff as my biggest worry was that if you go to tradesman, they often don't fix what need to be fixed but they are trying to max out their profits straight away, not all are like that but have noticed. On audi cars that happening less (still happen to one which is RHD) than to the other car brands I used to drive, I do remember there was a huge problem with jag and then bentley. They all seems to go crazy even if bentley is a VAG car really. Anyway I'm glad that this car was sold, it would have been a complete waste in Poland.

Law / Business in Poland and Polish reality, How are you doing in Poland? [82]

Hello,

To be honest I'm not so sure about my skills as a mechanic, in old days I used to change breaks and oil, that was a fun work and to change discs with brakes I spent almost the whole day :) however I do have VAG Ross-Tech software and as I mentioned before I'm a programmer so I'm able to fiddle with newish cars, I do however love old cars, I can perhaps polish them, do some auto-detailing work, again this is only for fun, I cannot imagine converting that to profitable business, specially when I make more money now sitting next to my mac...

Law / Business in Poland and Polish reality, How are you doing in Poland? [82]

Hi Polishinvestor,

It does sound like you have a built up portfolio so indeed you can manage this yourself, I was able to invest money in my life but whatever I did it required my presence to be done correctly. Oh 12 years it's such a long time, you can certainly become an expert in that length of time, I'm here from last June (July really!) so I cannot compare it :)

Definitely time is running much slowly here and therefor we should be more healthy here, shall we?
Trust me, in the town/village I'm in there is nothing to do at all hence why I'm thinking of jumping on a bike when the weather improve a bit.

As you can see I'm a newbie here so I need to pick up the knowledge really fast, like with that bus business, was thinking about that last night, I will give it a time till May and then decide, will more likely sell it as piece of metal on the wheels would not gain any value, well it could if it is David Brown car, like friend of mine purchased DB5 for around 40K GBP ages ago, then he spent almost 60K up to date on it, it looks brand new and it's worth around 1M easily! This is another way I was thinking of making some money while in Poland, the labour is quite cheap and people don't value classic cars yet, not at the same level as we do in UK. WHat is your opinion about classic cars/bikes, if you are in that sort of thing?

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Law / Business in Poland and Polish reality, How are you doing in Poland? [82]

Great, thanks, this I suppose is good to gain a pocket money but it's also with high risk so not to bother spend over 5K on that sort of thing... Back in UK I'm using Cazenove, this is a great company which can manage your private wealth. Again all money I builded up and got from parents back in UK are staying in UK so in Poland I can only play with whatever I made here and whatever is left from selling my house back in UK. At least this is some sort of challenge and hopefully after few years I would be able to show my mum that I was able to achieve something in Poland, she was feeling very negative about me moving to Poland, a good thing was that she accepted my wife but beginning wasn't easy... How many years you live in Poland for? Have you sold up everything back in UK and then moved here? How often you are going back? I refuse the answer you don't miss it at all, unless missing bit is a syndrome which you will get rid off after few years:)

Law / Business in Poland and Polish reality, How are you doing in Poland? [82]

Excellent, thank you very much for that lead, I will definitely check that. I reckon I have maximum of 10 years which can be used for a good investments. I need to start to spend my time more actively, right now I'm opening a fridge about dozen times per day, I used to play tennis as well while I was back in UK, I must say I was more active then, was socialising quite often as well, here it's only us really, we used to go out to restaurants about 3 times per week but now it's just a pure stress when you go with little one as she doesn't want to sit tight so it's looks like that: wife is seating and eating her meal (or other way round), I'm walking with the little one and then we change, not a great fun, apart of her family we don't have much friends here either. I have loads of friends in UK thought. So you are saying that family keep you busy...

Have you ever tried sites like kokos.pl to make some on side profits?

Law / Business in Poland and Polish reality, How are you doing in Poland? [82]

Hi Polishinvestor,

That is true, my biggest worry on the property market is dealing with people who are non-payers, this of course can happen even in biggest cities, perhaps the percentage is lower. This is perfect, I would love to have a contract for 5-10 years, at least you are not dealing with troubles every year. Can you really find a good commercial property for around half a mil? That would be ideal, and taking into account you have a long term contract you don't need it to be within let say 30miles... Off topic may I ask you what is your hobby? I'm trying to find something which I can do and enjoy every moment I'm here, close by there is a golf course but winter is not ideal for it, same with cycling, I will be buying new bikes this spring and probably will travel around on the bikes...

Law / Business in Poland and Polish reality, How are you doing in Poland? [82]

Oh wow, I'm impressed, didn't know that investment of around 500k can bring you around 4K, I thought there is much smaller return, we have a flat already, this is a tiny (less than 40m2) flat based in Grodzisk Mazowiecki, my wife used to live there when she was studying and before she moved to UK (this was also before we purchased house we are in at the moment) property is about 20years old, in very good condition, we pay insurance on it, tax from income and we are renting it through agency, we got about 600PLN per month from that, property is worth around 150K... So returns around 4K would be fantastic. In regards to Spanish market, I mentioned before I have some friends there, the idea is to write down a proposal for them so they can look after it for me, I'm hoping to draft an agreement so that way I know that they will be happy with what they got and also we will have some small return, idea is to buy a house and convert it the way that building has two entries, one is used solely for us so we can go there on hols and second one will be for tenants. I think idea is fantastic but it does need more research as this would be probably about 800-1m PLN investment and I need to see if I can look at the same return as you mentioned when dealing with commercial. For example I can buy a house back in UK (places like Kingston on Thames or Surbiton), there areas are popular within students, again have someone to look after it, and from 250-300k GBP investment I can get around 2.5-3k GBP return, this also sounds great, but with that kind of investment I would need to take a mortgage as there is always something to do with the house. I'm now very much interested in commercial property but I have no experience or knowledge about that sort of market here. What sort of businesses renting that sort of property?what will happen if they got bankrupt?

Law / Business in Poland and Polish reality, How are you doing in Poland? [82]

Yes that is true, anyhow this wasn't strictly my idea, this was a family member idea (father in law) who has some experience, some contacts, free time and actually is in not any urge for money. So I thought this is perfect opportunity, he was able to catch few jobs which are adhoc I would say, they are some schools calling, there is some stuff already reserved. This month itself should pay for itself and make some small profit, at the moment(since November) after paying everything we were able to gain 800zlots! I know this sounds like a joke to anyone who read this right now but it's still winter and this business is in rather sleep mode, anyhow I will be patient and I will give it a time till September to see if it will fail or maybe it will be ok... We will see... I must say that Polish market is not so easy, back in UK I was able to be involved in many different businesses and whatever I did everything brought me back a nice profit, only down side was that I had to put my own time into that and I had to watch it constantly otherwise everything was dramatically going down. These days I'm so busy with my projects now so I would rather be happy with small return but at the same time this would be a nice task for my wife who thinking about going to find a job, I personally think it's a nonsense, we have little daughter and even if I work at home I don't have much time to look after little one during the day, so taking extra person in to look after little one, house etc would probably cost as much or even more than she is going to earn somewhere in town, other thing is time, she will be stuck for at least 8hours per day, and will need to travel to/from work which is also time and money... Because of it our lifestyle will change dramatically. I like it the way it is that is why I rather find a solution so she can feel needed and she can work at home. I hope all of it make sense. Yes commercial property is not a bad idea, where are you investing? Poland (town/village) or UK/Europe? It has crossed my mind to purchase a holiday house let say in Mallorca( I have some friends there so it should be straight forward to find a deal), I know again this is also risky, but it's a property so the value will certainly go up. Can rent it as a holiday house to Poles or anyone else, I think all Europeans will be very picky in terms of holidays and I expect them to avoid all Muslim countries (this is natural trend) so they will go to places like Cuba, Dominican Republic etc or Europe: Croatia, Spain, Portugal... I think this could be a nice idea but before I will do anything I will need to sit tight and write down all cons and pros... We are more likely talking about 200-300K euros so ideally I would not put that sort of budget into any danger...

I could not agree with you more on properties, I know in general this is the safest bet but on other token I would love to build something that my wife can start and maybe in future my daughter can continue, I'm not saying she must continue but at least she would have this as an option... My career should be safe for another 10years, then who knows, I'm constantly learning and improving my skills but I can see the shadow of future growing every day/week/month... As I mentioned before kids would be able to do everything what I'm doing when they will be 15-18years old, I'm sure some of them can do it now!

Law / Business in Poland and Polish reality, How are you doing in Poland? [82]

Hi Grzegorz_

I can see the same problem, most of businesses in Poland are established already, our local competition not only have more expensive prices but they also have old buses, usually they use up to 25 seater VANs (converted Merc Sprinter etc), we have a problem bus with aircon, 32 seater, TV, DVD, etc, so if I would be end user I wouldn't even think of using that service... I was talking to our accountant, he said that business is still fresh and we should give it a go for a year so then we can always sell it if that would not work... I don't want to go outside the Poland, this would be too risky, insurance is not cheap anyway and in case of any failure on the road (if in Poland) I cannot see a problem of sorting out replacement so people are not waiting, also to recover the bus here is easier. Once I go to Germany, this can go to thousands of euros in terms on recovery, replacement, etc...

Hello Polishinvestor,

That is absolutely true, I could buy a number of buses but simply there is no point, I rather keep adding them once I see that there is enough interest in this field. Quality of work I must say is really high as well, everything is done properly so safety is number one. That is true, I meet few people who are in that sort of industry and they are doing OK for themselves, they usually have this as a family source of income, so me thinking: all cost + 1800 per month it should be justified.

In terms of investments, I'm pretty safe at the moment in terms of my income but of course we need to think about the future, we are not alone, we have a baby and I want all the best for her. Private school in UK + some extra tuitions etc would cost me £30K per year, in Poland education is much much cheaper, I'm not so sure about quality/level of that education but I guess we can always have some private tuitions etc.

My other plan would be to purchase a flat (up to 7 years old) in Poland, or old house, and rent it, once our little one will be 20years old she can decide on what she wants to do with it. She can then sell it or keep renting it. Other idea is purchasing a house back in UK (this of course would be with a mortgage), plan for wife is to make some courses: accountancy which seems always in fashion and another one we are considering is INSURANCE BROKER, this seems to be a fantastic job role, of cousre both you can easily manage from home and this is what we really want...

That I agree with, best you can do is invest in what you know the best, this is what I'm doing for myself and I'm ok now but I cannot imagine myself in that sort of business in 10-20-30 years, I'm 32 this year and programming is great but I reckon all I do now, kids would be able to do when they would be 12-18 years old in school :)

So perhaps take from it till you can... and hence why I'm so desperate to take on new ventures as even if I would not have massive profits, we would be able to live from it...

Hi Pweeg,

I agree with you, in this particular example that was mainly my father in law, who have some contacts and know the business as he is in it for ages. He said it is very profitable but we need to be patient. I don't really agree and I'm afraid I don't want to argue with inlaws as this can cause even more issues. Anyway he works for us, and he is paid per each job so that way we know he is helping as much as he can.

I have some money invested back in UK but there is no way of making 6%, unless I'm missing something... Question with that business would be on when to stop, sell it let say September or wait till next year?

Law / Business in Poland and Polish reality, How are you doing in Poland? [82]

Hi Roger,

I used to live in West Molesey next to Hampton Court back in UK... However before that we were in Sweden and Canada for few years, we have moved to UK when I was 14... My mum is Swedish, dad was born in UK, but his father was Polish and married to English woman, I know this is all complicated but I'm a walking mix!!!

Roger,

Just to add, I was born in UK and then we traveled a lot, dad was an engineer working on oil projects, so we were everywhere!

Law / Business in Poland and Polish reality, How are you doing in Poland? [82]

Hi Grzegorz_,

Really? 90% ? how come it's so bad? I meet few people round here and they all seems to be doing OK, well I don't know their personal circumstances but I could easily place them within middle class bracket, again I'm not a wiser...

That is true, I have purchased one bus, I could go nuts and buy 2,3,10 buses, and then what if one cannot even make for itself, all I wanted was to create some income for my wife, she can then deal with people (emails, phones, meetings), and she can have perhaps that 1800PLN per month, taking what bus need to make I will be happy with 4200PLN per month, that is rubbish return from the investment, old days you could get more out from keeping your money in the bank!!! I reckon that flat in Katowitze or Krakow will make you similar money (not 4200 as this is including all taxes, maintenance, ZUS etc, with flat you will get probably around 1200PLN per month but value of the property will surely go up in next 15-20 year, with bus, you will be lucky if it would be worth 1K in 20 years :) )

Again I don't have huge expectations from life, I do understand that Poland is not like Cayman Islands (old days again), I just wanted my wife to have equivalent income to any crappy job she would pick out in this town. A minimum wage thing, but benefit of it would be mainly working from home so she can spend time with the little one, and she can work for herself, that is it really.

There is possibility that we are doing something wrong, firstly we are not established for 10-20-30 years like others so maybe that is a problem, I have to say we cannot cover the costs and I can perhaps try and see to that till summer, I don't think there is much point on "burning" the money long term... What I observed here in Poland is you need to have some sort of connections who can help you out, again I will try what others suggested and just see on how this will pants out :)

Law / Business in Poland and Polish reality, How are you doing in Poland? [82]

thanks for that Polishinvestor,

Reading that text was like reading some crime story from early 20's :) stealing petrol, how this would benefit me to pay someone less money for petrol and not getting any invoice/receipt? I need them to claim all my expenses... Also cash to hand it's I suppose ok if they don't run for the whole week/month... But again I will make sure that all is written on paper. This Polish attitude is really strange to me and reading about that is all new... We had stories about gangsters back in UK, take Carlton Leach from Essex story... But that was ages ago... I actually never heard a story of someone being kicked out from his own car and beaten up, that is ugly... I'm a bit speechless now... I will give myself time till next spring to see what else will happen in Poland and if there is any chance for little business here, if not I will be preparing for a big move, I'm missing UK so much, I used to complaint about it some time ago but I don't think that I will just get by in Poland. Don't get me wrong, country looks really nice, so many places to ride on your bike, huge garden, nice big house, cheap running costs( I earn UK money) but certainly I have a problem with people here, I'm here since June last year - I don't have a single friend, going to shops can be a challenge so I'm trying to go every other couple of weeks and just buy loads, usually my wife is dealing with it, I'm not leaving house currently, planning to go out once it will be warm, get a bike out... If possible I would love to avoid selling up here to buy again in UK, my wife wouldn't like it, she has parents here and she is very close with them, for her Poland is a home, for me feels like long awkward holidays. I also prefer to be with family... So not sure how my story will pants out. Ideally I want this business to move on, so wife can be independent (this is what she wants and she made it very clear but I cannot imagine her going to work for some rubbish money, she will do OK at home looking after this bus business and child)

Not sure about me as at this stage I cannot see myself as a "happy Englishman in Poland"

Law / Business in Poland and Polish reality, How are you doing in Poland? [82]

Thank you again for such a detailed response,

With organising trips, I believe you are right but there is a long way to actually starting doing them successfully, as a newbie I don't expect to see much interest but it's definitely worth research as the course itself is cheap as chips!

With that web design project, this is what I do for living, well actually more advanced than that, more into programming stage, I'm again under shock, that would mean if you have a task/job which needs to be done you will consider yourself lucky if that project will be done with one tradesman but more likely 2+ why they are doing that? I would hate it, I would personally hate finishing/fixing started by someone job... I would probably even not go for it.

That is a shame that I'm not in Poznan as we could do some business together, my expectations as you see are not huge, all I'm hoping for is to cover all business expenses+ my wife can have a wage, then I will be happy... I don't even think in terms of taking all invested money from it, it's a tool to make money and I'm not greedy, just feeling absolutely shattered when I read proposals like the one I have mentioned, that is beyond the measure.

Thank you for the link, I was basically thinking of charging 2.50zl/km based on minimum 150km and during one day trip, of course if that will consume more time like waiting overnight etc I will charge extra for drivers time + 20-30% for me, which I believe is fair.

500km both ways, so 250km each way trip including overnight stay I would happily charge 1300-1350pln, so you have an idea on how aggressive my prices are...

Another shock- they are kids so safety is important, I'm as a parent, I will never let my daughter to drive inside some wreck, safety is very important, things like insurance, tyres, checks, oil must be always done... Again this is my attitude I brought from UK to Poland and even if this sounds right it is not right in terms of Polish market...

You have an excellent idea about these night clubs, I will act on it tomorrow, will email them first to see if there is any response, another thing I have noticed in Poland is that Polish people are not great in terms of emailing...

I need to look about the trips with stopping at bus stops, I know you then need to pay monthly for each bus stop, Chrzanow charge you 1500PLN per one per month, which is very expensive...

I have contacted schools, funeral places, travel agents and churches, had some interest from schools perhaps as alternative/spare contact, it looks promising to have something from local tourist agency but there is no response from churches at all, I think they are not interested or they have their own people for that, again we are newbies on that market.

Good idea about shopping centre, but people have loads to choose from, There is new gallery called Galena in Jaworzno, Silesia in Katowitze and two big ones in Kraków so I don't think there would be any traffic going to Gliwice...

On another matter, how long do you live in Poland for? Which country have you moved from? Great to see someone so helpful here, I really like these forum, personally thanked the admin for creating it. So many of us here! We need to keep together!

UK, Ireland / Living in England - the reality. I am now returning to Poland. [30]

Hi Zuzanna103,

Just read your message, I'm so impressed on what I just read... I'm in opposite situation that you are really, coming from UK to Poland, and lucky enough to have work in UK, paid off house and some savings... Otherwise reading that: "I think honest and hard-working Polish should be made fully aware of what really goes on in England. If you are not a criminal, thief or liar you will not prosper in England. " I think it would be fair to write it like that: I think honest and hard-working Englishman should be made fully aware of what really goes on in Poland. If you are not a criminal, thief or liar you will not prosper in Poland. I have been in Poland many times in my life, now I'm living here from June last year and I really can say what you said with changing the countries around in your story...

I think you would not face the problem if you will do research before going to UK and have let say 3 months of average UK salary with you, this is trip to another country, it is a life changer and you were taking a huge risk so you couldn't expect to have everything served on the golden plate... If you were in the wrong company you could apply for work in another companies, I'm sure there is still thousands of companies like that in whole country.

In regards to nasty experience with some polish tradesman, unfortunately these things can happen - again doing research before using a company would help a lot! All you can do at this stage is to write nice review and copy and paste it everywhere you can, that way at least you may gain some personal satisfaction if that is what you want...

Unfortunately with estate agents - this is again coming to research before using a firm. I can see two problems in your story: lack of money and lack of preparation/research. Sorry to say that but you have failed on both and hence why you had to deal with such a nasty experience.

Why have you left Poland? What country you want to go next?

Law / Business in Poland and Polish reality, How are you doing in Poland? [82]

Thank you Delphiandomine, I do appreciate your response on that.

Exactly there is another factor as you said such as very long summer holidays, in Poland kids have time off from late June till 1st of September! Very interesting course, my wife has some free time available so I'm sure she would be very keen to take that course, also we are thinking about accountant course too, this seems to be OK to have even for own purpose. My only worry is that I work hard for my money, I had house in UK which was paid off within first 7 years, selling it and moving to Poland was a heart breaking decision for me but I did that for my other half, also I knew that I would be able to work from home plus life in Poland should be cheaper than in UK, well we have house with no mortgage here, it's not fantastic but it is just OK for our needs... I'm apparently in good location - Chrzanow - this is placed just between Krakow and Katowizce, also it's close to Oswiecim (Aushwitz) so I could imagine it should be loads of interest...

Today we had an opportunity to take a contract with local school who is organizing some sport-trips for matches etc, wife get back to me with that list and I was shocked on how someone can even propose anything like that. They have a budget of 5000PLN, and there is 46 trips which needs to be done, some of them are short like 15km, but longest is 500km, average was 90-250km. Total number of km is 5115, so it's easy to calculate that they want to spend almost 0.98PLN per km, also taking into account number of trips - 46 - we will have 108.70PLN per each trip. Now costs - petrol for all 5115km would be around 3.5K, there would be another expenses like viatoll but this will depends on where you actually go so I'm not gonna focus on these, driver will also need some money but where is the money, suddenly from 5K we have 1.5K and driver need to be paid! that is then 32.60PLN per trip! This is not possible to make at all, I have no idea who come up with the budget of 5K but they said it's absolute minimum. Wife couldn't understand my negative reaction to that. There is another thing to say, some of these scheduled trips are happening on the same day, not often but there is few with 2-3 similar trips at the same day, that would mean that you need to have second and third bus with drivers or ideally you need another company who can do that for you. Taking into account lowest prices you will ADD money to do this job. My question here is - is that done so someone naive can take a job, sign a contract and lose money on it? People are really that stupid? Doesn't matter on how you would calculate that this is not possible to make a penny/groszy on it at all...

Do you know on how to sort out a school contract? This was the only one which was mentioned and they gave us a week to think about that, I expect them to never call us again if we refuse that offer (joke not an offer)...

I'm not quite sure about moving to international transport, I think it is too risky at given moment, we just have one bus, and taking it abroad we may actually lose on it, it is 10years old, I can understand someone who take brand new bus on leasing etc - they can just go over the Europe - no problem. But this one would be too risky and pricey, in case something will fail...

Yeah with that night runs - I have adverts on google, facebook, czymdoslubu.pl, slubeo.pl, from November we did only one trip like that and looks like people called us as someone else failed so they had to find a bus...

I don't really know on what to do. We bought the bus for cash, I know that even selling such a vehicle in Poland it would be a massive problem as I've been told that people in Poland don't buy cars for cash, they usually buy with leasing or on loan.... And when they do they feel that they have loads of budget available so they can afford pretty new vehicles...

I'm stuck with it really...

Any other ideas on what can be done with it, how this can be used?

Life / What income/assets and worth, will give you a "rich" status in Poland? [22]

I must say this is very interesting topic, I know that in US these classes are not really shown, Russia has super poverty or extreme wealth, UK has classes in old, traditional way... Really would like to see everyone's input on that one :)

Life / Moving to Wroclaw - is 10000 ZL a good salary for a family of 3 (Husband, Wife & Infant)? [5]

Hi Vicki82,

1) It is good enough for very average lifestyle if you have your own house, otherwise you will need to pay quite a lot in terms of rent, I must add that baby does cost quite a lot, we have 16 months old daughter and we are spending something around 1000-1500PLN just for her, food for me and wife is around 2000PLN per month without going out, insurance for two cars + petrol + maintenance it work out as 1000PLN per month, so all will depends of your needs really. Of course everyone is different and have different outlook on life...

Also I would be a bit worry about saving matter, 10000PLN and you have 3 people with you so it might be a challenge.

2) You will be fine to manage your stay, but spending 5000PLN on travel around EU won't be possible, suddenly your life budget just got chopped in half, you would be able to manage maybe 2-3 trips to EU countries per year!

Unfortunately I'm unable to help with number 3...

Life / Eating out in Poland, is it expensive? [28]

Hi Chrison2wheels,

Poland is not a heaven, I have noticed that people here are trying to make as much as they can every time they deal with you, doesn't matter if that is a builder, electrician, programmer, or pizza place. They just don't think long term so you have two groups of people here:

- the competition killers - who will offer lowest possible rate so no one else can do it cheaper
- people who wants to become rich immediately...

Please do bear in mind that if you are planning to retire here, food would be the last concern, you will more likely have to deal with other tradesman too!

Coming back to food subject - yes there are some cheap places but unfortunately most people would not enjoy that sort of quality (quality of food and quality of service).

If I will have that choice of moving to Poland or Thailand, I would pick Thailand immediately (couldn't do that as my wife is attached to Poland so much hence I just need to pick all the best from this choice! )

Good luck to you anyway

Law / A Polish company have not paid me [13]

Hi butterflybrit79,

I would suggest you make an invoice and send the email to them with the attachment and please make sure you cc that email to some legit law firm (if principal matters) or made up email address which looks like a law firm (scare tactic), please also make sure they are receiving the email from you, this could as well end up in their junk mail so maybe it's worth giving them a buzz to check that they actually received your email.

Good luck with your recovery!

Study / Studying in university of Warsaw or Lodz and part-time for Computer Science (Programmers) - POLAND [6]

Hi Bukhari,

If you really want to live & study in Poland - think about Krakow or Wroclaw as they are more friendly to foreign people. On other token - you are young man and if programming is something you want to do - why not go to UK - London perhaps. Quality of education is very good indeed and I'm sure you will be able to meet loads of friends there. I'm not saying that Poland is a place where you are not welcomed but recently there is loads of incidents happening towards foreign people. Today I read that some Sikh was attacked in nightclub, again every story like a stick has two ends. I would be more careful with choices... UK will be safer and better. Again this is only my opinion, I live here (Poland) and moved from UK. Was it a right move? Not sure, it's ok to live here, country in beautiful, people are not open minded like in UK but I don't blame them. They can see on what is happening in western Europe....

Work / New business start-up in Poland - opinions and ideas [32]

@delphiandomine,

I thought that only Poles will pay smaller ZUS and this is not a subject to immigrants... Again I don't know 100%, that might be some deductions etc.

With food, you made me worried... Do I spent a lot? Baby milk (Bebilon 2 thing) is about 100PLN per month, then you have nappies and other baby stuff, baby cost us about 1K PLN in general, dog (cocker spaniel) about 400 PLN, take aways roughly 500PLN per month, then you have sweets, fizzy drinks, regular food and we really need to spend 2.5K per month....

Work / New business start-up in Poland - opinions and ideas [32]

Hi BasPK,

If you are planning to move here you need to have somewhere to stay, obviously if you want to do business in here that would be pricey - you need to pay around 1K PLN only for having a company (regardless if you make a profit or not), then obviously tax of 20% - from your income,

for your business you need good internet connection and backup - I have two lines, one with Orange - that is 80mb/s for 90PLN and mobile internet with play (in my location I cannot get over 20mb/s) for another 90PLN, as you are from outside of EU you cannot buy property in Poland, so you need to rent - you don't want to live in small villages as they may suffer from electricity cut, luck of internet etc = so no business, you need to rent in the city - you should be able to find something for you and your family for around 3.5K PLN, you will have maintenance cost like electricity, water, heating etc, that should cost you about 1K per month, you need food - we are family of three with small baby (10 months old) so we spend about 2.5K PLN per month (I would say we are saving and not really going out), now car and insurance, perhaps you will buy a car, I don't know what sort of car you want but something reliable can be purchased for 10K PLN-30K PLN as a one off payment (cars are much more expensive here than in UK) on petrol you will spend (going shopping etc) I'm guessing 200-300PLN per month, insurance for it and other costs would be probably about 200-300PLN per month, life insurance for you and your missus - 300-500PLN per month (if you want something descent), private school - in my area they cost about 350PLN but they are not English schools - they are expensive..., for Gym you shouldn't spend more than 200PLN per month, mobile phone - if you will be calling your family probably from 100PLN, these are averages, everyone has a different lifestyle, but from what I have calculated you need around 10K to survive... so you need to earn around 12K+ there is no saving to be made... Of course if you want to rent office or something - these prices are going dramatically up! I think you will be better of going to UK, if you can work anywhere you can get nice house in Bristol for 900pounds per month (that is 3 bedroom! ) you can still work from home, visit some potential customers etc etc, food will cost you less, kid can go to good school etc. I don't want to put you off but this is as realistic as it can get...

Work / New business start-up in Poland - opinions and ideas [32]

Thank you very much delphiandomine , that look descent, we have couple of macs in home, we have nice camera (was nice when we purchased it) Nikon 5100 with two lenses and proper flash, she finished a course as well in Krakow... I may need to talk to wife about that as she has no idea on what she wants to do...

Work / New business start-up in Poland - opinions and ideas [32]

Thanks cms, I would consider that but I would need to check on what sort of return I will be looking at... Professional couples are always the best, specially in big cities! Transport company - my father in law had something like that, small local firm, he had two buses, but he retired and he didn't wanted to carry on with this, however he is walking encyclopedia when it's coming to know-how for that business, also he knows loads of people within that business - from both ends - customers and other companies + drivers... Again I can already see a risk in that sort of business as the investment is quite big, the bus itself it would be something for 70K PLN with probably 400K KM on the clock!!! so you can imagine on how many things can go wrong!

Coffee shop - nice but more on shelf with dreams, gambling - nope, thanks.

That is a very interesting thing, is book-keeping very popular in Poland, I wonder on how many weeks you need to learn to be trustworthy and educated book-keeper... I would think about that surely!

Hello again everyone!

How about other idea, again something with a minimal profit each month...

Work / New business start-up in Poland - opinions and ideas [32]

Delphiandomine - she finished some marketing school back in Poland only because that was "trendy" back in the old days - if I could summarize it that was waste of time as she never wanted to work in it. That is why she wants to do some courses, she finished photo course but there is so much competency around, also equipment you need to change quite often etc, she doesn't feel strong in that, she likes fitness, but she cannot teach any of it! It's difficult... I was thinking of a course for some sort of insurance broker for her, not many people like that in Poland, you work for yourself and you need to obtain the license, course price is around 1.5k-2k pln so not bad... Any other ideas are more than welcome;)

Hi tictactoe, that was an idea but to make it successful, shop would have to be in Krakow, Warsaw, Poznan etc - big towns where there is many of us, Polish people seems to hate our food (that is a feedback got from many Poles I know), You can buy UK food in many stores like LIDL or Biedronka so there is no point importing anything, plus food there is more expensive - especially meat! With e-commerce, I was thinking about something but food wouldn't be great - we don't have Saturday delivery in Poland, also deliveries are pretty slow, it will cost premium (if that would be possible) to deliver for next day... :)

Work / New business start-up in Poland - opinions and ideas [32]

Thanks Sparks11, I would consider that, but when I did some research, if I by a place let say in Chrzanow or any similar small town for up to 150K PLN I would be looking to get 500PLN per month, is that right? Plus 20% of tax from it... This is what I discovered looking at olx site. Again I don't think I want a lot in return - 1K PLN per month I would consider fair from 150K PLN investment, that is 12.5years to have your money back :) With Coffee shop - I always liked the idea but I must admit I don't have any experience in that and I don't know the subject. Maybe you can have some ideas on what my wife can do, what course she can attend? She is 30 and I'm 31... We don't have any mortgages or loans, we do have some small savings and I work, plus I get salary from UK every month - that may finish one day so I thought is sensible to start up something...

Smurf - I'm not great in sport - I'm sure if you have a good knowledge you can make some money that way. Back in UK I used to go to places like William Hill or Coral and play roulette, I was quite successful by putting some money on blacks :) however I cannot see myself as a gambler so I would like to avoid that way of making money - this is purely luck base these days, also house always win :)

@InPolska thanks for that, I will avoid the subject, I have to admit that I like to know on what my money do and where they sit, I also never put my eggs in one basket, therefor I'm trying to find out some idea. I do appreciate that people who has these sort of golden ideas already do their businesses but I don't think I could be a competition for many of them, specially if business is locally oriented and I'm in different part of Poland, if anything that may only work for good!

Work / New business start-up in Poland - opinions and ideas [32]

Thank you InPolska, that was my worry, I should say that budget for this business would be up to 150k PLN, ideally however around 100K PLN so not a chance getting any luxury at that price... I don't expect massive income, I would like around 1k-2k PLN after all expenses paid per month... I don't mind if that would kick in after 3-6 months and not straight away... Was also thinking about some transport company with buses, start with one bus and offer services to companies in 30-50km radius so can offer transport for employees, schools - for trips, weeding/funeral or even place to place... I know that is rather expensive to start, good 16-19 seater is 70K PLN, on top of that you need license which cost about 4K PLN and some advertising done... Other idea was a little coffee shop, something we seen in UK, with good coffee, sandwiches, Polish Zapiekanka, maybe jacked potatoes as never seen them here, etc... Again there is loads of places like that around and I'm not sure if my budget is enough. Any other ideas? :) I'm trying to get my head round it.