History / What was it like in 1989+ in Poland when the Soviet house of cards fell? [237]

ok, let me explain the delusion about the ham & cigarettes story
(btw, the reason for the exact weight measurement was not a threat of imprisonment or Russian mentality but the fact that ham was a very precious commodity, 10 grams over and the store is losing money, 10 grams under and the client starts arguing...)

So Antek went to Russia and felt sorry for the Russians for not having access to quality clothing and cigarettes, grateful for his own situation, and trying to encourage them. Well, this is basically how people from richer countries feel about going to Poland now - grateful for the fact they don't have to live there, but sympathetic for the situation of the Polish people. But while he was very happy to play the role of the "rich guy from the West," he gets indignant, and petty, and resents being given advice himself. I would call it hypocritical if he was aware of it, but he's not, so I call it delusional.

Life / Struggling young Polish couple - try to solve their problem [176]


as I said before, I don't know what they're educated in or what they do, and why it's not working, but it obviously isn't, so they have to try something different. start a small business. find a niche market that they can make extra money on, if it takes off, quit their day jobs and invest more money in it. I gave you a few examples before.

or, if their own business is too scary, figure out how to make more money with their current skills, or learn new ones.

Life / Struggling young Polish couple - try to solve their problem [176]


no!
sorry, Havok.
it's not where you live, it's what you do. if they're contemplating leaving to wipe the as*es of some old rich Germans, hell no. but if they can find a real, professional, well-paying job, why stay in misery?

News / For all Americans worried about Schengen in Poland, dont worry about it. [142]

if you're talking tourism, yes, more Americans go to the Caribbean, but they go on millions of business trips every year across the Atlantic, there's a ton of money to be made for everyone this way, and whenever there's loads of money involved, restrictions melt away...

funny thing, we've never been to Mexico, even though it's so close, we have been to Europe multiple times.

Life / Who is poor in Poland? [720]


yes!

ok, maybe I can explain it on a different level, and hear me out, Maarysia, because I'm NOT trying to put anyone down, this is as honest piece of well-meant advice as it gets.

I work with a guy whose mother is from South East Asia, father from the US, the guy was born here. His mother had never left her home country, very backwards, low standards of living by American standards, until she met her future husband and she came to the US. A lot of things seemed silly, naive, so very different than what she was used to, people had different habits, different manners, they'd smile even though they didn't know her, they came from different walks of life, they'd all have different opinions, they'd argue about things she had no idea about or didn't think they'd matter to anyone. It was all extremely confusing at first, she had no higher education, no idea about business, no experience with anything other than running a household, didn't know how to find a job, how to adapt to people's expectations, pure craziness. Her husband was very patient, though, and he'd explain things, one by one, he'd let her meet different people, hear different opinions, get a driver's license, get a job, figure out for herself what life in America is about.

Well, a decade later or so, her husband died, and she took the kid (the guy I now work with) back to Asia, and she started her own business, based on what she learned in America. In her own words, going to America was the closest thing to having a crystal ball, if you keep an open mind, because what people in the US took as a matter of course about running a business, in her old country was new, unheard of, almost ridiculous to her old friends and neighbors, but it was extremely successful. It was like going back from the future and taking with you all the information about what's going to happen.

So, the guy came back to the US to go to college, he married an American and stayed here, but his mother is still over there, making more money a year than both of her parents made in their whole life.

It's a true story.

See, Poland is like the country that stayed back in time. It's moving forward, but it's not where other countries are today, including the US. So what Havoc and others are saying, instead of

snickering and arguing, and shutting off everything that doesn't conform to the Polish way of life, perhaps it would make more sense to see what more successful people in more advanced countries are doing, and try to do the same. Think about it, what people considered normal in the West 20 years ago was pure crazy talk in Poland. Now the stuff is beginning to be the norm in Poland. But if you looked at the West twenty years ago and tried to do the same, people would obviously call you nuts back then, but you'd be twenty years ahead of time in Poland, and now that the majority of people are just getting used to it, you'd be successfully on the top of the game!

You're taking what Havoc says too literally, it's not about you joining the Navy, silly, it's about knowing what you want to accomplish, being smart, and keeping an open mind, even if it means throwing away the beliefs you held your whole life.

Life / Who is poor in Poland? [720]


lol, c'mon people, boys wil be boys, everyone's got something to brag about... some people have food, some people have vets with an SUV...

NOBODY wants a small fridge. If you think it's stupid to update your house in order to sell it, you obviously either lack the marketing streak or have very limited experience with property market outside Poland.

Life / Who is poor in Poland? [720]

Maaarysia
you're assuming that you'd buy a house with old crap in it... the truth is, you'd expect to buy a house with new or at least up-to-date stuff in it. it's easier to leave your washer and dryer, and fridge, and stove behind, because they don't cost a fortune, and you'll get new ones with the new house. it's a selling point - appliances, kitchen and bathroom cabinets, etc. if you don't see what you like, you tell the seller to lower the price.

Life / Who is poor in Poland? [720]


lol, M, sorry, that's such a clueless question... are you really expecting an answer?

Life / Struggling young Polish couple - try to solve their problem [176]


oh, that's awesome!

ok, here's a few pretty good travel-related ideas - and you don't need a lot of money to start:

some time ago we happened to be in Philly, and we went on a very interesting walking tour that was historical, but not the stuffy official boring lecture - it was a kinda quirky, some little-known amusing stuff about Ben Franklin, some very funny anecdotes about Betsy Ross, it was an hour, a whole bunch of people showed up and everyone paid like $25 or so. very entertaining.

there's a bunch of those tours in each big city here, which you probably know, some are themed (like "ghost" tours, etc.)

some other time we went on a bus tour (actually, it was more like a van, with TV screens for everyone) through the places where they filmed well-known movies in Philly - the guide would talk about the movies, make it funny and entertaining, they'd show clips from Rocky, Treasure Hunt, Philadelphia, all bunch of movies, hour and a half, about 20 people, I can't remember how much it was but much more than would cover the gas, the driver's wage, the vehicle, etc.

then we went to Scottsdale, a few weeks ago, they had a food tour - the woman would take a bunch of people, I think it was 20 or so, on a walking tour through a number of restaurants in the Old Town, we would sample some food and wine (and I mean, sample, a few bites in each place), she made money, we had fun, the restaurants would showcase their food so people would come back for a real meal. I forgot how much we paid, but the woman was saying she was running the business pretty much by herself, making a few tours every week, pretty much paid a full-time wage for a few hours of work a week.

tourists are a good source of money, Krakow is a great city, people would pay a local to show them around, point them to the right restaurants, etc. Or, they can do more of a concierge-type of business - make restaurant reservations, scope organized tours, help foreigners with getting train tickets, or whatever a person not from Poland would find difficult when visiting. minimal initial investment, decent profit if you know how to get the word out and make the experience entertaining.

Life / Struggling young Polish couple - try to solve their problem [176]


that's pretty neat. if they find a niche and they can make their service unique enough, they should be able to make good money.

do they live in a city?

Life / Struggling young Polish couple - try to solve their problem [176]


I hear what you're saying.
LOL, I have to admit, I'd study to be a certified carpenter myself, if the only other option was to live with my in-laws...

Life / Who is poor in Poland? [720]


ugh. I stand corrected. I hope I never have to buy a house in Poland then.

but to the other point, about subsidized housing, very good idea. there might be some pitfalls in practice and some chance of corruption, but it would definitely help.

Life / Who is poor in Poland? [720]

a house is not to make a killing, it's a place to live.
even in Poland well-maintained houses with modern kitchens and bathrooms, and solid construction in a quiet neighborhood close to shopping and a highway appreciate faster than neglected sheds without running water in the middle of East Bumblef*ck. c'mon, harry, you can grasp it, right? when you were selling your house, didn't the real estate guy tell you to clean the mess, put the chickens where they belong, and put on a fresh coat of paint?

Life / Struggling young Polish couple - try to solve their problem [176]


it depends how much they feel like waiting till someone else takes a shower in their bathroom every morning, using the same toilet as two other strangers, or overhearing each other's private conversations (or other activities) every day :)

Life / Who is poor in Poland? [720]


have you ever bought or sold a house?
you're assuming that all homes go up or down in prices at the same rate, which is not true. Some neighborhoods appreciate more than others. If you invest in your house and get new windows and appliances, e.g., you fetch a better price. a kid knows that.

Life / Struggling young Polish couple - try to solve their problem [176]


true. I still like the idea. You can save a lot of money if you learn how to lay tiles or hook up light fixtures yourself. there are some things they would definitely need a professional for. I hope they have a buddy or a cousin who is a plumber or roofer, who can do the work at cost.


yes!

Life / Struggling young Polish couple - try to solve their problem [176]

i agree, renting a place only works in certain situations (like, you need to be able to move frequently), otherwise it is a waste of money. I still think it's better than living with parents.

doesn't the military offer housing for professional soldiers? I thought it did, but I admit it was just my assumption.

they obviously need some career advice, can't offer much since I don't know what they do or what their education is.

invest the money they borrowed from their family and start their own business instead?

i wouldn't advise them to go to the UK, unless they can get a real job, not construction or housekeeping, because even if they make some extra money, after they're done, they're two years older, back to the same situation in Poland, and nothing to add to their resumes to help them get better jobs.

Life / Struggling young Polish couple - try to solve their problem [176]

well, if the bank thinks they don't make enough money to make the monthly payments, there might be something to it, particularly if you're saying they can't even afford rent. (and you have to remember, owning your place costs much more than just the mortgage payment)

can they borrow money from family, as opposed to the bank?

join the military, get free housing?

they really need to do something new, out-of-the-box. living with parents is not healthy in the long run, and unless they're willing to take risks, nothing's going to happen. at the end of the day, they need to figure out how to make more money.

Life / Who is poor in Poland? [720]


good one

that's true. it's not a matter of spending, because most prices in Poland are the same as in the EU, and some items are even more expensive, like electronics, except Poles make only a fraction of what their western European counterparts make. so no matter the price of apples or potatoes, wrt to the wealth of the population, Poland is closer to Romania than Germany or the UK.

It's obvious. Why does it make sense for hundreds of thousands of educated Poles to go working as housemaids or kitchen helpers or nannies in London, rather than for Brits to come to work in Poland? Because what the Poles can make as housekeepers in London makes is much more than what they would make in Poland, even with their education.

as for the comparison of people living in poverty, it goes by the national line of poverty. So even if what the Polish government considers the Polish poverty line is twice as much as Albanian, it's still three times lower than the poverty line in the UK. So, you can be technically poor in the UK on the same income that would make you middle-class in Poland.


Antek, because Germany didn't open its borders until now, much later than the UK or Ireland did.

News / "Shale Gas Revolution" will make Poland a Leading Country in Europe! [202]

here's what's going to happen, most likely, and I realize my prediction is as good as anyone else's:
- the 5.3 trillion cubic meters will not make Poland a superpower. It will help with not having to buy natural gas from Russia, so in that respect, it's good, it will reduce Russia's influence over Poland.

- there is little expertise in Poland in shale gas extraction, so Poland has to call on experts from the US, so you can already see large US energy companies getting involved, as well as the French. It means that while there will be some new jobs created for the local population, a lot of the profits will end up outside Poland.

- Poland's environmental regulations are pretty much non-existent, particularly with respect to the chemical mixture used for fracking. The dangers of fracking exist everywhere (locals near fracking sites reported being able to set their tap water on fire - and that's where tap water quality is supposedly closely monitored...), no point in pretending it will be any different for Poland. So to balance the few highly-connected individuals who will make a whole lot of money, a lot of regular folks will suffer from chemical contamination of their immediate environment and reduction in their property value.

The sad truth is, companies like Exxon and Chevron are extremely to start drilling far away from American backyards, where they can still make a lot of money and not be subjected to the consequences of negative public opinion.

It's a mixed blessing, just like the Gulf oil reserves, and I sincerely hope that someone in Poland will come up with a better way of bringing the gas up to the surface. This is where the real money is - technical innovation.

Life / Who is poor in Poland? [720]

Well, who cares about what you heard on the radio? Your "I heard on the radio" argument is pretty much the same category as "I saw a trailer park in America."

Perhaps if you stopped just for a second trying to come up with "gotcha" arguments, you'd figure out the difference between, "I can't afford to eat meat every day" and "I don't eat meat every day."

What are you going to bring up next? Albania has more goats than France, and is therefore richer?

Did the sales data track where the meat is consumed? Is it possible the people are crossing the Polish border to buy cheaper groceries?

Life / Who is poor in Poland? [720]

And I have already told you, you're statistically insignificant.

And to your hypothesis about DVD and computer ownership:
page 116:
DVD
urban areas of 500,000+ 59.3%
urban areas of 500,000-200,000 61%
urban areas of 200,000-100,000 58.6%
urban areas of 100,000-20,000 58.6%
urban areas of 20,000- 59.8%
rural areas 51.5%

the data for computers is pretty much similar, with 52.7% of rural area inhabitants owning one.

Ok, what's your next desperate attempt to deny the obvious?

Life / Who is poor in Poland? [720]

ok, can someone explain how it would benefit the majority of respondents to under-represent their living conditions? What exactly do you get for saying you can't afford vacations, clothing or meat? Is the government going to write down your name and send you a pork chop, a sweater, and a train ticket to Zakopane?

Life / Who is poor in Poland? [720]

Are you trying to convince me or yourself?

Did you see the questions to say that they miss the point? Did you check to see whether the surveys were voluntary or how they were conducted? Did you try to find out how they treated vague responses, outlying responses, or sampling methods?

The questions were not about, How Much Money Do you Make? This is a tax question. The question was, Can You Make Ends Meet - very easily, fairly easily, easily, with some difficulty, with difficulty, with great difficulty. Can you afford going away for a week every year? Can you afford leisure activities? Do you have indoor plumbing in your house? Is there a computer in your household?

This has nothing to do with working under the table, and since Monia discredited the GDP, kinda funny you bring it up again.

You know, I don't care which detail you dispute, I don't give a damn about your attitude about statistical research, or how you argument your denial to yourself. The objective fact remains that millions of people live the reality that is described here, and that's why people are constantly leaving, every day, every year. The only people coming in are from places that are even worse off, and even they treat Poland as a stop rather than a destination. Plus a few misguided westerners...

Life / Who is poor in Poland? [720]

Antek, if you want to post something, you need to start making more sense.

do you mean that your four computers should offset three other households' lack of such a basic tool? so if you have one SUV per village, do you count it as five regular cars? if your neighbor goes on a two-week vacation, is it the same as if he went away for one week, and you went away for the other? I guess you could say your four computers and your vet's SUV double your national durable goods index.

you can deny it all you want, but apparently most of your fellow countrypeeps don't feel like they're rolling in it...

Life / Who is poor in Poland? [720]

wow, 4 computers per household? awesome. I'm totally floored, Z, you're so smart! This totally proves that the Statistical Office data is completely wrong!

Life / Who is poor in Poland? [720]

you're not making any sense, Antek. are you asking about the methodology of the surveys? have a look, it's a statistically validated random-sampling survey, it's all explained there. or are you trying to say they faked all the thousands of questionnaires?

it's your own government that collected and published the data, not the CIA, or some other American imperialistic conspiracy to make you feel bad...

the cover page also says they welcome suggestions, so go ahead, give them a call.

Life / Who is poor in Poland? [720]


I guess you need to take it up with your central statistical office. the data was from 2009, published in 2011:

stat.gov.pl/cps/rde/xbcr/gus/PUBL_wz_dochody_i_warunki_zycia-rap_2009.pdf

that included samples from all generations, all types of incomes (workers, self-employed, pensioners, etc.), towns of all sizes, rural areas, households of 1 to 6+, degree of urbanization, educational background, all regions, so I'd say it's pretty representative

and since the data was anonymous, like the census, I don't see what it has to do with taxes, and why would it benefit the respondents to grossly underestimate their means, and why it would be such a wide-spread, nationwide phenomenon that everyone lies?

Life / Who is poor in Poland? [720]


most people did say just that, to your own statisticians. The surveys didn't ask, Hey, average Pole, what's your GDP, or PPP? They asked, Do you feel like you can afford to live on your income, and an overwhelming majority said no.

Life / Who is poor in Poland? [720]

ok, who cares, there's been a whole generation that grew up since Poland has been "freed" and there's been little progress...

now, interestingly enough, the Polish national bureau of statistics publishes their findings about the living conditions both in Polish and in English.

here's what you can read if you care to scroll to Table 32 - Self-Evaluation of the Households Financial Conditions

- 51.9% of households cannot cover unexpected expenses of 680PLN from their own resources

- 15.7% make ends meet with great difficulty, 20.1% with difficulty, 34.3% with some difficulty

- 60.4% declares no fiancial possibility of going away for one week of family vacation

- 18.8% cannot afford to have a meal with meat or fish every day

- 26.4% cannot keep home adequately warm

- 38.5% cannot buy quality clothing

in addition, there are still people who do not have running water at home, flushing toilets, baths or showers.

just over 50% of households have a dvd, and just under 60% have a computer or a car

about 25% have difficulty with accessing banking or postal services

22% cannot afford leisure activities that involve spending money (cinemas, concerts)

19% cannot spend a small amount of money on themselves without consequences

14% cannot afford to replace worn-out clothing