News / Is it possible that Polish president was assasinated? If so then, by whom? [921]


That's all fine and good, but if nobody can even answer the question of whether or not it was installed/overhauled at the Russian facility then a f*ck-up shouldn't be ruled out. The plane only had about 130 flight hours on it, so if turns out that it had indeed been worked on by the Russians AND it wasn't functioning properly, what does that tell you?

News / Is it possible that Polish president was assasinated? If so then, by whom? [921]


Back to the question. Anyone? According to some sources, this plane only had approx. 130 flight hours. And it's not too farfetched to comapare a Russian aviation maintenance facililty can to an alcohol rehab facility with an attached trade school ;-)

News / Is it possible that Polish president was assasinated? If so then, by whom? [921]

Does anyone know when the TAWS was installed? Was it during the overhaul in December 2009 in Russia?

"If the safety device was working properly, it would be the first such crash of an aircraft equipped with the system since its introduction in the late 1990s.

The fact that the jet had a TAWS device "opens more questions than it answers," said John Cox, a safety consultant and former accident investigator.

"I really would like to know what was going on in that flight deck because no matter what kind of pressure other pilots have been under or what kind of weather they encountered, no pilot has ignored a TAWS warning. What is so different about this plane that it would break that chain?" Cox said."

"The aircraft had undergone a major overhaul in December 2009...The airplane had received a 5-year/7500-flight-hour warranty after the overhaul and the crash happened after just 138 flight hours."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Polish_Air_Force_Tu-154_crash

News / Is it possible that Polish president was assasinated? If so then, by whom? [921]


Thank you for that, Jed. Only your government, though, might like it.

News / Is it possible that Polish president was assasinated? If so then, by whom? [921]


Not if the pilot was expecting the ILS to be in place, as it was when he flew Tusk 3 days earlier--which is the point I am making here. Refrain from resorting to insults--it reflects poorly on you, not I.

On another note: What if the approach was changed from an ILS (Tusk's visit) to a PAR approach (Kaczynksi's)?

""They're available at some military airfields and allow the controller to talk you right down..."

"The PAR needs alignment every hour if it's not been used for an approach."

avweb.com/news/system/flying_the_par_198973-1.html

Wouldn't precise information be critial from traffic control? And if precise information was not given...? Or if it was neglected to be aligned....?

See the Miroslawiec report: aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20080123-0

"PRIMARY CAUSE: Inadvertent loss of spatial and situational awareness by the aircraft crew during final stages of PAR approach, which, within 12 seconds period before crash, resulted in the aircraft's bank increasing unmonitored and accompanying altitude loss, while the flight crew apparently was trying to establish visual contact with runway and approach lights."

In this case, however, the findings were made by Polish investigators...

News / Is it possible that Polish president was assasinated? If so then, by whom? [921]

Do not forget reports that Russians removed ILS AFTER Tusk's "official" invited visit, even though even Kaczynski was still to arrive. If any thing makes them look guilty, it's this. As for the question, if boy's video is evidence of no/little fog--why are there no more reports about it? Then ask yourself this, where is boy from? Russia. Would video help or hinder the "official" Russian of "fog" and "pilot error"? And is Russian media unbiased? They've been peddling in circles fog.... pilot error... repeated landing attempts...etc. Certainly the boy's video has been confiscated--soldiers were present with them.

News / Is it possible that Polish president was assasinated? If so then, by whom? [921]


Does anyone know where to find this, or if someone already might have this information? If so, could the link be posted? Thanks.

News / Is it possible that Polish president was assasinated? If so then, by whom? [921]

*SKYSOULMATE*

Here's my summary:

If both the TLS and TAWS were removed/tampered with, how would the plane land? (Not considering any other components).

These are both to ensure proper orientation at landing approach--TLS for the correct path approach and TAWS, which warns pilots when they are too close to the ground. Or aren't they? (Crash site: Look at the angle of approach and how low it was flying).

What would the result be if both of these were not working?

One or the other is critical to landing the plane, is it not? But neither?

During the landing approach, no other instruments are as critical to landing as this, are they not? Which would explain why the pilot would not have reported any instrument errors or malfunctions at altitude. All hell would break loose only upon the approach to land.

For an NDB approach, isn't the TAWS critical?

Article on the TAWS in passenger flight craft--as discussed by the manufacturer of the one that was in the Tup-154 and a crash site investigator:

usatoday.com/travel/flights/2010-04-13-fog-plane-crash-poland_N.htm

News / Is it possible that Polish president was assasinated? If so then, by whom? [921]

Is *SKYSOULMATE* around, does anyone know? If he is, can he help? He flies passenger planes which is exactly what the Tup was. It's not a ground-to air-craft--like helicopters.

News / Is it possible that Polish president was assasinated? If so then, by whom? [921]

Is SKYSOULMATE around anywhere? He flies passenger planes, which is exactly what the Tuo-154 was.

News / Is it possible that Polish president was assasinated? If so then, by whom? [921]

Why would you compare the presence or absence of components on one type of plane to those of a completely different aircraft? They are built differently for a reason, are they not?

News / Is it possible that Polish president was assasinated? If so then, by whom? [921]

This was not a Cessna we're talking about.

News / Is it possible that Polish president was assasinated? If so then, by whom? [921]

BUT FOR AN NDB APPROACH DON'T YOU NEED THE TAWS TO BE FUNCTIONAL?

News / Is it possible that Polish president was assasinated? If so then, by whom? [921]

CONVEX: Read my last 3 posts, please, if you could be so kind.

News / Is it possible that Polish president was assasinated? If so then, by whom? [921]

GET THE PILOT OR EX-PILOT IN FROM THE OTHER BOARD.

News / Is it possible that Polish president was assasinated? If so then, by whom? [921]

DURING THE LANDING APPROACH, NO OTHER INSTRUMENTS ARE AS CRITICAL TO LANDING AS THIS. WHICH IS WHY THE PILOT WOULD NOT HAVE REPORTED ANY INSTRUMENT ERRORS OR MALFUNCTIONS AT ALTITUDE. ALL HELL WOULD BREAK LOOSE ONLY UPON APPROACH TO LAND.

News / Is it possible that Polish president was assasinated? If so then, by whom? [921]

Stay on topic. ONE OR THE OTHER IS VITAL for the pilot to land the plane.

News / Is it possible that Polish president was assasinated? If so then, by whom? [921]

If ONLY BOTH TLS and TAWS were removed/tampered with, how would the plane land?
These are both to ensure proper orientation at landing approach--TLS for the correct PATH approach and TAWS which warns pilots when they are too close to the ground.

Tell me: What would the result be if BOTH of these were not working?

News / Is it possible that Polish president was assasinated? If so then, by whom? [921]


That's exactly my point. It could be removed and installed at will. There are 2 types of ILS: fixed and portable.

News / Is it possible that Polish president was assasinated? If so then, by whom? [921]

What would the result be if BOTH of these occurred:

1) the airport had the ILS removed after Tusk's visit, but before Kaczynksi's
2) the TAWS system on the plane was removed/tampered with during its servicing in Russia

News / Is it possible that Polish president was assasinated? If so then, by whom? [921]

Please listen, I think I know how the plane was sabotaged, exactly what equipment when and where. Let's debate politely and calmly. Seriously.

News / Is it possible that Polish president was assasinated? If so then, by whom? [921]

I have a theory. Let's test it ;)

News / Who will be the next President of Poland? [51]

Dedicated to z_darius with "most sincere, heartfelt, brotherly" looove:

youtube.com/watch?v=nTWcstwyM8M

Somebody, find out who sings this and let me know. See how much I love my brothers?--I even come bearing most thoughtful gifts for you *sarcasm off*

News / Is it possible that Polish president was assasinated? If so then, by whom? [921]

Neutral's always been good for Poland, like Switzerland maybe... ;););)

News / Is it possible that Polish president was assasinated? If so then, by whom? [921]


To put it mildly.

News / Is it possible that Polish president was assasinated? If so then, by whom? [921]

Check your source, Velund--Russia Today is state-sponsored propaganda. Especially when I hear something like this:


If they're moving it, why don't they just get Polish investigator's to arrange the remnants to be tagged and shipped to Poland. Confiscation?

News / Is it possible that Polish president was assasinated? If so then, by whom? [921]


I'd be scared to take a s**t, lol.
Ahem, Velund, I thought you don't have speakers and can't actually listen to the video. What's up with that?

News / Is it possible that Polish president was assasinated? If so then, by whom? [921]


I would be inclined to suspect it might be too old to apply here...


Ok, that would be great. Then we can have intelligent conversation. Right now it's going nowhere. And I will look into finding video of wailing choo-choo train for you ;-)

Ask others around on this forum to see what they think of the video. Oh, I forgot you mentioned earlier you didn't have speakers so you haven't actually "heard" the video...did you suddenly find some? I don't want to waste my time on a pointless argument if you're just jerking me around.


The presence/absence of trains and firetrucks does nothing to discredit what is actually said, heard, and seen on this video, otherwise.

News / Is it possible that Polish president was assasinated? If so then, by whom? [921]


You live next door to Kremlin? lol ;-)

News / Is it possible that Polish president was assasinated? If so then, by whom? [921]

Velund, I would have to hear it be able to offer a valid opinion. I'll try to find out more, but really it's a train. I read Polish reports (how refreshing for a change!) that no emegency vehicles were called until much later, in which Poles were questioning the reason for that, certainly later than the video that only shot within minutes. Again, refer to the overhead view of the site and the house are only a short dash away. And you can tell the Russian in the video was running because he's out of breath.