Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


To be monogomous? If that is the case marriage is definately not for you.


Actually what I am talking about is marriage. I can have a relationship with my dog, a coworker, or a teamate. I am talking about a much stronger committment.

Why is it a shame that I think you should be married prior to starting a family. Why am I brainwashed to think that committing to one person (your spouce) is a natural progression before committing to having kids. I should think if you want 2 kids it is quite practical to be able to commit to one before committng to two more.

I am sorry that marriage does not mean the same thing to you as it does to me. Marriage is much more than a piece of paper.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


If it won't change you than whats the problem???? There are benefits given by the government to registered couples that an unmarried couple will not receive. These benefit both the married couple and the children.


Yes and yes she is probably the most giving person I know. I am not going to argue with you what makes a perfect marriage there is none. If you read all of my posts you might have a better understanding of how I feel about marriage.


If this is your interpretation of marriage, I suggest you don't get married. Like I said getting married is not for everyone. Living together is easy. Marriage is much more than just signing a long term lease.


Well at least we can sort of agree on something. If an individual is not strong enough to take on the responcibilies of marriage ..they certainly should not have children.


Why do all you have to skip right to the end of the relationship. I use relationship here because this shouldn't happen in a marriage between 2 caring individuals. The question that should be asked is why is the spouce drinking?? Is he/she an addict, are there financial problems, a recent tragedy. What steps have been taken to resolve those issues by both parties involved. Marriage is a team sport people. There is no more individuals. What happens to one happens to both and both should support eachother through anything. It is not a blame game. Do i condone violence in marriage ...no. Do I think the kids should be removed from that environment ...yes... My point is it should never get that far.

Genealogy / Advice to translate pages from a Polish book into English? (Genealogy) [16]


Well if you visit the church or call I am sure you will be able to have someone there help you. It would be free minus a bit of gas and your time. If you would like to contact a pro that I have used and highly recommend here is his link: polishgenealogy.com.pl

Good luck

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]

I would like to know what makes marriage immoral? The union of two individuals is a moral one. It is the shortcomings of individuals entering into marriage that causes the problems. Not the institution itself.

I am still a little in the dark about this legislating morality statement? How is requiring two individuals to register thier relationship in order to receive certain benefits from the government legislating morality?

I mean the government gives us all numbers to keep track of us for taxes/benefits/etc. Is it legislating morality when it gives me my social security card?

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


Has the world got "This Selfish" that it does not understand what parenting is all about. Once you have a child any parent should have its childs self interest at heart 1st and foremost. Dead relationship- who cares its all about the kids now. A person chooses to get married for better or worse- not only when we are young and 50 pounds lighter or when we don't need a lot of money and everything seems within our reach.... its during the bad times too when our spouce loses his/her job and money is tight and our spouce is drinking too much because they feel like a failure...it is in these bad times where we teach our children the most...self respect, perserverence, self sacrifice by helping our spouce through these hard times. Divorce only teaches our children one thing...that thier parents failed to keep thier word.


it doesn't have to be. There is councelling. Mistakes will be made but running away from a problem is not the answer. I suppose you are an advocate of bankruptcy also. My debts /committments are not my problem let someone else bear there burdon.


You are talking about an extreme case here not the norm. I would not even clasify such individuals as parents and they should lose thier parental rights.Some couples should have thier kids taken away and be forced to sustain the child (financially) in a more loving environment. This is also an extreme solution but the long term damage on the child might be mitigated.


Teaching a child to run away from thier responcibilities is not good parenting. Teaching your child self sacrifice, compromise, and love is the answer.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]

You think that getting divorced is healthy and guarantees happiness????

Even in an ideal situation where an individual can learn from one's mistakes and chooses correctly the second time around...there are torn loyalties for the child between biological and step/parents....not to mention the time involved being reered by only a single parent.

As for kids repeating a parents mistakes.. that is on the parent not the child. not all people should become parents until they learn what being a parent entails. The same way a person should not get married until they learn the requirements.

teflcat

OP is referring to unmarried individuals. I could be wrong though.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


They don't. Any dictionary will tell you this.


Now your getting it. If someone decides to have children out of wedlock.


Same in the Usa. but the law tends to fall more on the childrens side of the equation...It makes the paternal father responcible finacially (at least in theory). In reality society fits the bill unless the father steps up. Do I think we as a society should help our youth to insure a better future for all....the answer is yes. Do I think a woman/man should be able to drop kids with multiple partners and society suffer for it ...the answer is no. It is not backward for a government to want a person to get married before having kids. It is the natural progression of things. You meet your partner. you commit to a partner. You register your relationship. You have kids.


Sorry if I misquoted your meaning. I am unfamiliar with this term. I took it to mean pathology. If I am wrong please let me know.


Not all people should get married or have kids for that matter. To answer your question yes I would. Why because the child may learn from thier parents mistake and not jump into marriage with the wrong partner, or learn how to be more diplomatic rather than hostile. Or depending how irresponcible the parents are may learn nothing at all. This is more difficult in the case of divorce (not impossible). Parents tend to use thier children as pawns in an ongoing battle with thier former spouce ( this can be done subtely or more dramatically) This destroys a childs view of the opposite sex promoting trust issues. This in turn leads the child to think that marriage is a bad thing. This simply is not the case. The commitment is not the issue. It is the selfishness and non conformity of the individuals getting into the marriage that destroys the bond rather than the instrument itself.

There are amicable divorces and nasty divorces. Divorce as a whole is a negitive influence on children. It is perceived as a nasty battle.

Marriage is a beautiful commitment..something to aspire to. It is the individuals that destroy the commitment not the commitment that destroys the individuals.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


some sort of artificial bind or contract to trap two people together is both unfeasible and unfair

these are your words to describe marriage. If a person thinks its a trap they obviously would want out ...unfair if you think that kind of commitment is unfair I can draw the conclusion that you don't want the commitment.

My word dillusional was used to describe a person who thinks that someone breaking up anothers committed relationship as moral which is what you stated. I wouldn't want anyone to destroy your committment to your partner either ....Does that make me dillusional or immoral.

And the idea that a government may promote another relationship as higher, or more beneficial, just because it's been stamped by a clerk in an office, is to do an injustice to all other forms of relationship and therefore commitment.

The government is not trying to promote any relationship it is trying to document the relationship so its citizens can apply for benefits .etc. They are in no way reducing the relationship that you have. Should a women or man be able to claim multiple partners and receive multiple benefits. The answer is no. The government should not have to document every relationship that a person has in thier life just the ones that a person feels are permanent. This is one of the purposes of a civil marriage. Documentation.

The married women that I know, once they're married, forgo their own career ambitions, some even take it as one of the perks of not having to work. Soon after that the partnership becomes lopsided: she resents having to explain what she needs the money for, he resents the financial burden. She takes much more sht from him than she'd have to do if she had her own income, losses her self esteem and becomes insecure about re-entering the work force.

This sounds more like the diary of a divorced women rather than every married women. There is no reason for a women to give up her career just because she wants to get married. If a women/man does not want to give up her career they should discuss it before getting married. How they are going to raise thier kids... all the dos and don'ts should have already been discussed before hand.


Where did you grow up.....ouch!!


Not sure what this has to do with the topic at hand but I personelly loved my pet Kc. Not sure if that made me a better Catholic or not?????


Maybe we should go back to when women were just property and had no rights...that would just eliminate those problems for men after marriage is over.... bad j/k

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]

No one person is perfect, nor one government. In what way does government promote or has placed into law that cohabitation is bad or illegal. Does it promote marriage , yes but it does not illegitimize cohabitation.


On what criteria is cohabitation moral? If someone falls in love with someone who is already married and breaks up that marriage. If you don't find this immoral. You are dillusional. Marriage is more than a piece of paper it is a (higher) commitment . As stated earlier it is not for everyone.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


How is marriage detrimental to women?

I also support the idea that marriage is detrimental, but not for f stop's reasons. My commitment to my partner is my own choice, between me and him/her. Putting an external pressure on that relationship, some sort of artificial bind or contract to trap two people together is both unfeasible and unfair. It may have been "morally noble" in the dark ages when women were denied all the other basic human rights and had to look to their man for support, but not any more.

Marriage is a committment and a choice. It sounds like you don't want to have a committment at all.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


If you are referring to 2 people in 2 separate marriages that want to sleep with eachother and destroy 2 family units whether there are kids involved or not...you are damn right I support a law to punish both individuals.

I would think this is common sense.


A bit off topic but...How is paying your taxes morally wrong. If you have a problem with your local tax structure you may want to run for a government position and change them. Tax law is not perfect. And how is 2 people shacking up to pay one rent instead of 2 any different. We can nit pick all day.


Not sure what this means??

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


Not exactly what I said .. I said that marriage is a positive thing.


To think that kids are not given a more stable environment in a relationship between a married man and women vs. an unmarried couple is dillusional.

You can honestly say that if/when you have children you would not want them to get married and have your grandkids. Take religion out of the equation. You would want your kids to just shack up with someone and have a couple of bastards out of wedlock. That is ridiculous.


Where did you get this from??? I merely stated that marriage is a positive thing.

If you are referring to my second statement. I would think that this would be common sense. I don't go around killing everyone I have a problem with. Morrally wrong. I don't go around stealing from anyone. Morally wrong. I don't go around banging my neighbors wife. Morally wrong. (not criminal but it should be)

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


Sorry if you feel I went off topic. I merely agree or disagree with some of the statements made and chose to comment. for example:

Stability- absolutly agree

Child rearing- already commented but don't agree entirely... not everyone can be a good parent but if they can be a good
parent they can most probably be a wonderful spouce. Getting married doesn't automatically make you a
better parent. It can make it easier fiscally (single parent/divorcee) and give a child a stable structure to
strive for (sets good example) but I am sure there are many well adjusted happy bastards running around
in the world.

Domestic violence - Have to disagree with you here. There are as many married jerks as there are unmarried. Married
abuse tends to go on unreported in greater numbers I am afraid, but these numbers are
becoming more and more skewed because of falling marriage rates. It looks like there are a greater
number of reports for non-married couples but percentage wise they are very close.

Child abuse- sorry to generalize here but in this case you are dead wrong as most child molesters tend to be married.

Duration of family unit - Agree

Long term implications - We all have problems in the long run.


I think it absolutely should. We as a society should encourage positive choices. What is wrong with imposing moral laws.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]

Infidelity is automatic grounds for divorce even in the eyes of the church. There is no reason for these women to feel like a failure because the failure was not theirs.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]

Society has destroyed the sanctity of marriage as a whole. There will always be non positive influences on your child, however , I would state that a person capable of being a loving parent is perfectly capable of being a loving spouce. People today do not take marriage seriously. Civil divorse has cheapened it. Gave everyone a get out of jail free card. If people would be more concerned about the welfare of there spouce instead of there own selfish needs there would be much less divorse today.


Marriage is not for everyone and I do not fault anyone who isn't. Do I think children should be born out of wedlock ...ideally no.

If a couple is willing to commit to the responcibility of raising a child I think they can be equally committed to a successful marriage.

Genealogy / Mixed-Blood Poles in America (Do we count?) [118]


I don't mean to burst your bubble but there are a hell of a lot more Polish Americans in Pa than there are in NJ. Philly has over 65,000 of them alone.

Genealogy / Advice to translate pages from a Polish book into English? (Genealogy) [16]


OUR LADY OF THE BRIGHT MOUNT CHURCH
Los Angeles, CA 90018
3424 W. Adams Blvd
(323)734-5249
Polish Mass: Saturday 5:00 pm; Sunday 9:00; 12:00 am

This was a quick google search but I am sure there are many more sources of Polish speaking individuals in your area. When I spoke with the priest in my local area they were extremely helpful. My grandparents were married in a Polich Catholic church in Ny.

Genealogy / Why Polish aren't white?? [272]


I might give u a culture in the broadest sense but it is not an ethnicity


If the lower classes you are referring to are black I would say they are just not lumping all whites together. White in America depending which class/race of people you are talking to is not a term of endearment.

Now if you are referring to whites who said this ....I would place these people in some white supremacist group or are just ignorant morons that have not caught up to the rest of society.

Genealogy / Why Polish aren't white?? [272]


Relevance??


Sarahk did say some of you


I am curious which ethnic minorities you are referring to?

Genealogy / Why Polish aren't white?? [272]

joepilsudski
As do most politicians that have true power.

Genealogy / Why Polish aren't white?? [272]

They can be be considering Jewish is a religion and not a race.

Genealogy / Advice to translate pages from a Polish book into English? (Genealogy) [16]

I can give you the name of a Genealogist who may be able to help if you wish. Where are you located?

Genealogy / How common is it for other people of Polish origin to discover they are actually Jewish? [127]


Racist no just practical as in olden days women were considered property and were raped and traded/ sold all the time. I call this law "The Mutt Law"

Scarlet unless you are a practicing Jew I wouldn't worry too much about it. You are what you are. My wife is a practicing Jew, however , I am raising all of my children Roman Catholic. I respect my wife's beliefs as she does mine. The only difference between a Jew and a Christian is one more belief. We are all African anyway.

Genealogy / "Code" and "Name" in the Polish Baptismal Certificate? [3]

Is that what the expert said classified them as gentry? There are from what I have heard signs that relatives may or may not have been gentry. For example the term land owner was a give away. Most baptismal records I have seen contain both parents names, some even contain the grandparents as well as witnesses.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


Not sure what Catholic church you are attending but all Catholic churches require marriage preparation classes prior to getting married.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]

1. after marriage life is finished--- This is one of the biggest problems with people getting married today. This statement is true but in a good way. One's individual life is over and becomes one with thier spouse. Two people are supposed to act as one in the best interest of the family. Sounds like your parents did great.

2. after marriage life is sad--- Having children is sad?????

3. marriage is a state full of grudges and remorses-- life in general can be full of both of these. You can't blame marriage for an individuals short comings.

4. when you are married and you have children then you are stuck for good--- This is the biggest disapointment out of the 5 statements you made. You should want to be with your spouse forever. Marriage isn't untill we see someone who looks better, makes more money, or we are feeling a little down. It is permanent or should be (civil law screwed that up) It wasn't your parents that gave you this idea ..it was society that has allowed the end of marriage to become too easy and almost expected in todays selfish society.

5. when you have children then you are obliged to sacrifice in the sake children unless you want to be called bad mother/father.--- I really hope you don't have any children if you don't feel this is a good thing.

a) rises in the conviction of being the bee's knees
b) has remorses that ruin their parents lifes, feels the pressure to fill parents' ambitions and if he/she won't be succeed then has even worse remorse of letting down parents

I am not sure what to make of a). Were you an only child?? If you have remorses about your parents lives thats on you not them. Have you ever heard of the 5th comandment.

Have you ever spoken to your parents about thier marriage? A true parent is proud of thier child regardless. As there is no such thing as the perfect marriage , there is also no perfect child.

I am sorry you are feeling down about life , I hope things turn around for you. Your parents as far as I am reading seemed to everything right. Not sure why you have interpreted thier marriage the way you have.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


This is true and I agree. Relationships should develop before jumping into marriage. All these couples that get married within 6 months while infatuated with eachother don't know squat about thier partner. But is moving in together and starting a family a viable alternative. I am on the fence about a couple having to live together with thier spouse prior to getting married. What can you learn from this that you can't learn from dating someone for ample time.?

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


In most religions infidelity is grounds for divorce anyway is it not?

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


Being married does not have to equate with being miserable. Congrats to both you and your partner. It is a pleasure to see another couple able to handle the pressures of anothers company for a long time married or unmarried.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


There is very little social or religious stigma associated with divorce today. Turn back the clock 50 years and there is a huge difference. I am not trying to say an unmarried couple can not have a successful relationship.. I just think it is much more difficult in todays social atmospere.

The answer I gave was based on the fact that we were in fact single. No strings attached. The fact we are married makes me strive to make it work even in the poor times.

People keep talking about about failed marriages. How many failed relationships have we all been in. I would venture to say there are a lot more failed relationships out there than marriages. Is this only because there is some economic deterance involved with getting divorced or is it people still try harder when they are married?