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Posts by A J  

Joined: 21 May 2010 / Male ♂
Last Post: 31 Jul 2011
Threads: Total: 4 / In This Archive: 3
Posts: Total: 1075 / In This Archive: 876

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A J   
31 May 2010
Real Estate / PLN 2,500 the going rate for an apartment in Poland [210]

Have you? show me.

[stat.gov.pl/cps/rde/xchg/gus] - Have fun scrolling those Poland Stats PDF documents!

As I said, I can find you affordable apartments but they won't be in the centre of the city in the best areas.

I'm not talking about locations, but about supply and demand. For Poland's working class, the supply of affordable living space is diminishing. (Also due to foreign investors who bought property at an all-time low, who are trying to rent this property out at an all-time high.)

;)
A J   
31 May 2010
Real Estate / PLN 2,500 the going rate for an apartment in Poland [210]

cheap: i rent a small apartment to a guy for 100 pln / month and he hasnt paid for three months, cheeky bugger. Its about 45 m2's but i honestly dont know as ive never been inside.

Wow. I never knew you had a little socialist inside of you.

;P
A J   
31 May 2010
Real Estate / PLN 2,500 the going rate for an apartment in Poland [210]

Seriously? I have just given you the averages for every major city in Poland, I have given you the average wage, the minimum wage and low end apartments and you want me to what?

I want you to take a look at how many low end appartments are available, and then have a look at how many people are on a waiting list.

You are taking the top end and treating it as if it is the average, I hope you look back over what I have written because i am not going to write it again.

I do get your story. You didn't get mine. Me neither.

To take a top end apartment and make an example of how this is the average?

I'm talking demand/supply here.

;)
A J   
31 May 2010
Real Estate / PLN 2,500 the going rate for an apartment in Poland [210]

You should keep in mind that times are changing. Many of those poor people you talk about don't believe in all that religious and moral crap anymore, which practically makes them uncontrollable. It could make them a potentially lethal mob to those few spoiled pests who are trying to suck them dry. (Just keep taking from them and you'll see where the road ends.)

:)
A J   
31 May 2010
Real Estate / PLN 2,500 the going rate for an apartment in Poland [210]

I think this convo is getting a bit winded.

Which is the whole purpose of a discussion?

To some things up, a flat/house/whatever is worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it...

Okay. Let's suppose you are right for a second, and I'm willing to pay 1 € for that villa on the hill. Is it worth 1 € just because I'm not willing to pay more? I doubt it.

;)
A J   
31 May 2010
Real Estate / PLN 2,500 the going rate for an apartment in Poland [210]

What makes you think "they" are not? show me a shred of evidence.

Just take a peek at a few sites where they offer appartments in Poland.

There are top end rentals in every city centre, in every country, in the whole world, where it is beyond the average local to afford, why should Poland be any different?

I'm not saying it should be different. I'm saying there should be more affordable appartments for people with a low or average income, simply because there are more people with a low or average income than there are people which convex described. Right now, there are more expensive appartments than there are buyers. (Not only in Poland, but in all of Europe.) How come? Just explain that to me, since I'm so silly..

Domiporta has plenty of places that are much cheaper.

Plenty? In comparison to..?

Already been there. Didn't like it. Don't have a family because I want to get my ducks in a row before diving into that choice.

Me neither, but you know, sometimes people lose their jobs or situations change. You can't always predict the future. A manager today, might be unemployed tomorrow.

Think about size. If you want something nicer, it costs more money, ergo, you need a better job.

I wonder what would happen if everyone would have to find a better job if housing prices keep increasing like they are now, but when their wages aren't. You don't have to point out the obvious, because I get that. Don't worry. I'm talking about something else and you know it.

My girlfriend works for the exact same wages as people in Poland do. As does her mother, as do most of my friends.

Yes, but you don't.

Or for people that know how to read a newspaper.

Smart people don't read newspapers.

In the middle of the city, furnished, bills paid, with no commission. A Ferrari is just a car. People that can afford it can justify it.

Yes, but what if someone decides it would be fun to offer a Ferrari to everyone, knowing that most people can't afford one?

Yea, so? It shouldn't be a surprise for someone studying psychology that it will be extremely difficult to get a job, and even more difficult to get a good job.

Well, I'd call 6000 € a month a very good job. (But ofcourse I'm talking to Tony Stark here.)

Thanks for that little talk. I'll make my own decisions, as will people that don't want to tie themselves down to even more expensive mortgages.

You're right, and that's exactly why there are a lot of rich people who are clogging up the lower end of the housing market, which clearly was intended for people with average or low income. If you can afford something better, you should move your rich ass and allow someone else to live on his or her own. Or build more affordable appartments for those people. Simple.

There are a couple here making decent money. Very decent money when you look at the minimum wage.

I believe you, but I know a few electricians, plumbers etc. who run their own business.

There are affordable places to rent for people who have decided to be part of the working class.

Yes, there are, but not enough. For every affordable place there are a few dozens of people out there who are on a waiting list. (Sometimes hundreds.) How come?

I pay enough to cover this apartment and raise a family, even with all the money that the government will sap from that persons salary to pay for subsidized housing.

Well, if everyone agreed working class people should have a higher income, then the government wouldn't have to subsidize housing anymore. So maybe that's something to think about? (Yes, I know, I'm annoying.)

Especially when you keep in mind that working class salaries have been frozen or actually decreased over the last three decades, while middle/upper class salaries have increased by 60% over the last three decades.

;)
A J   
31 May 2010
Real Estate / PLN 2,500 the going rate for an apartment in Poland [210]

That is quite a silly thing to say, in every country there are top end flats, why should Poland be any different?

I've heard this excuse for quite some time now. I'm sure you've heard that once cheap appartments are being turned into top end flats? More and more people with a high income wish to rent, and ofcourse this is a very lucrative business. Now, if they were building more affordable appartments for people with a lower income, instead of turning the majority of appartments into expensive ''top end'' flats, then you may call me silly. Right now, you may not.

The offer was for top end foreigner, that can cost anything from 2500 to 4000 and should be a very high standard, large and in the centre of the city.

Most Polish people don't earn that kind of money and you know it. It's good for foreigners, but it's not exactly for the Polish. But thanks for the rest of your in-depth reply.

:)
A J   
31 May 2010
Real Estate / PLN 2,500 the going rate for an apartment in Poland [210]

The apartment isn't meant for a cashier.

I've seen a few appartments which actually were meant for a cashier once, and these were just a bit cheaper than this one.

Sure, that's incredibly reasonably for an apartment half the size, unfurnished, not in the center of Wroclaw.

I want to see you work for a few zloty somewhere, while trying to find a place for your family, see if you still have this opinion.

There are plenty of unfurnished holes in Krzyki that you can get for 1200 a month with everything paid.

I don't think people want to live in holes. (You sound a bit too arrogant there, sorry.)

Don't quite understand what the problem is.

No? Well, maybe you should work for the exact same wages people earn in Poland.

There are options.

For spoiled foreigners maybe.

The apartment that was referenced here was 2500 a month, furnished, all bills paid, in the center, with no commission. Is it a bit high? Sure.

A bit? It's excessive for Polish standards, trust me.

Is it excessive for what was offered? I don't think so.

I do. It's just a flat. (A bit bigger than most flats, but still just a flat.)

Would it be excessive for a student, or a part time English teacher, or a cashier at Tesco? Probably.

No. Not probably. I'm 100% sure it would be way too much for them. It would even be too much for a starting psychologist, nurse or teacher.

Would it be excessive for an engineer, a manager, a doctor, a lawyer, a pilot (we're hiring!),

How many people are engineers, managers, doctors, lawyers and pilots? Oh, and if you are an engineer, manager, doctor, lawyer or a pilot then you shouldn't rent anything, but simply buy property, instead of driving prices up for normal working people who can't afford to buy.

hell, a full time English teacher?

A full time English teacher - depending on which level he or she teaches - earns about the same as an Electrician, sometimes more, sometimes even less.

;)
A J   
31 May 2010
Real Estate / PLN 2,500 the going rate for an apartment in Poland [210]

Well, I pay 950PLN for everything.

Which roughly means 237 €. Sounds reasonable, if you take into consideration the Euro is about 4 times stronger. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you think this should be the average in Poland? I mean 2500 PLN a month? Even a Dutch person would call that pretty expensive for a flat!

:S
A J   
31 May 2010
Real Estate / PLN 2,500 the going rate for an apartment in Poland [210]

2500zl/mnth is quite a lot for a flat in PL

This roughly means 625 €. I would classify that as far too expensive for Poland's working class. (Not even talking about minimum wage there!)

*shakes head*
A J   
31 May 2010
History / If i could write European history i would unite Europe under Polish language [67]

But the question is, how do you know your language developed first?

I don't, and that's why I said it could be.

maybe it developed after another language and incorporated those sounds.

The English language changed. The German language changed. The Fresian language didn't change. (Some Danish and German people still speak Fresian.)

why not just resurrect the use of Latin as lingua france

I'd rather speak Polish.

;)
A J   
31 May 2010
News / Potheads attack police in Warsaw [40]

You are overreacting to a ridiculous degree when you say entire towns stink like reefer.

I agree. In Holland, it's perfectly legal to smoke it, and guess what? Only a few people actually smoke it. I live in a town with 20.000 people, and we have one small Coffeeshop. I think they have maybe a few hundred customers at best! Suffice it to say, my town doesn't smell (Or stink, depends on how you feel about it I guess!) like reefer at all. Believe it or not, but we actually enjoy our fresh air here!

;)
A J   
31 May 2010
UK, Ireland / The Daily Mail - coverage of the Polish people [161]

Then you have no idea,

So you're trying to tell me that psychology doesn't play a role in imagery, or any role in advertisements about beauty and health products for example? Or that psychology isn't applied to Life Style? Politics? Come on!

but I do ;0)

Ah. Ha. Hah. You're so funny! Could you please enlighten us silly mortals? Or does the Daily Mail Mafia pay you for your silence?

;)

No, we have the Sun the Star and and Daily Mirror, the Daily Mail is actaully a news paper that is targeted at the middle classes - so you are illinformed, ignorance is bliss, all you hear is Daily Mail!

Okay, I'll admit it, I *do* feel a bit dumb now..

:P

lol, we all know how our we feel in our countries, the press just prey on this and the DM do this well, but to be honest, all they do is inform.

Well, maybe I think that preying on the feelings that live among the populace could be vieuwed as an attempt at manipulation aswell you know.. Like all those polls for example. They only ask a few thousand people for their opinion, and suddenly that means a certain percentage of the total populace thinks this way? What if they've been selective? What if the results would've been completely different in a different area?

;)
A J   
31 May 2010
Real Estate / PLN 2,500 the going rate for an apartment in Poland [210]

If you want money, you work - and if that means that you have to work 60 hours a week, then so be it.

I would agree with this if you could garauntee everyone a fair wage and fair prices, and the opportunities to develop ourselves. It's easy to call the younger generation lazy scumbags and everything, but ask yourself this: Do those young people you complain about really stand a chance when they are actually working for less than a minimum wage sometimes? How the hell are they supposed to rent or buy property if this keeps up? I mean, if honest work doesn't pay the bills anymore, and if honest work simply doesn't get you anywhere anymore, then don't blame the younger generation for screwing up. The rest of society also plays a role in this. It's not like the younger generation suffers from a collective lazy syndrome all of a sudden. When you tell young people honest work is the right thing to do, then show them a fair wage. Give them a fair chance. Make housing prices and rents affordable again. Some people can keep blaming the younger generation if that suits them, but I can garauntee all of them that their younger generation will not survive this way. If you think foreigners will save society, think again, because the exact same will happen to them once they wish to settle down.

I'm fine with criticism, but keep it fair. Some folks really have to acknowledge that some things aren't balanced anymore, lest things will only get worse.

The alternative is starvation... just like it was when Britain was still "Great".

Don't forget about the chronically ill, mentally ill and handicapped people. They deserve some humanity from the rest of us. So that's a big no to your starvation comment, which is far too simple. (In my opinion.)

:)

A-J (Would like fair wages and cheaper houses tomorrow!)
A J   
31 May 2010
UK, Ireland / The Daily Mail - coverage of the Polish people [161]

All this fuss about the DM...Im sure they are gratefull for the marketing :D

Well, from what I've read here it must certainly be the shittiest newspaper in all of Britain?

I doubt any of you have ever work within the media so therefore I doubt any of you have any idea how it works!

I haven't, but I do know how media works. It's all psychology these days, even the smallest advertisement. It goes hand in hand with marketing and politics, and ofcourse it influences public opinion to some extent.

Does that sum it up for you, or..? Care to add some more?

:)
A J   
30 May 2010
Off-Topic / WHEN IS THE ENGLISH WEATHER IN POLAND GOING TO END....? [44]

Tacky shops and chavs mainly.

Sounds like my cup of tea really. I like chavs, especially those blonde, bubblegum chewing ones who aren't aware of the fact that they look like a supermodel. (Yup, incredibly sexist!)

;)
A J   
26 May 2010
News / Polish Policeman shoots down a foreigner in Warsaw [300]

AJ, are you some sort of commie?

No, I'm not, and I think I've told people a dozen times by now that I'm a Social-Liberal. (Or a Liberal-Socialist if you will!)

Being poor do not mean you have to turn up as criminal.

I never said that. I'm just trying to make it crystal clear that poor people resort to crime much more often than people who are wealthy enough to keep themselves out of trouble, regardless of what nationality or ethnicity they belong to.

I, for one, was born as close to poverty as possible in Poland. I was destined to care for someone else's sheep, pasturing them in the mountains. Just as my father and grandfather did.

I guess I'll be waiting for the happy ending?

Dont just whine about unfair treatment.

I'm not whining. I'm trying to make people aware of the fact that there are mutual benefits to banning poverty. Cheap labour might seem beneficial at first, but the less you're going to pay your working class, the less they'll be spending in your stores. A four year old could figure it out really.

Think of your perpectives, grind your teeth, say to yourself "No way in hell!" (Nie ma, kur*wa, mowy!)and work for years to get out of this sh*it.

Nie ma sprawy.

Poverty is not an excuse.

Again, I'm not saying that it is. It's just a fact of life that poverty leads to many problems in society. Corrupt leadership is no excuse either, and frauds and employers who break the law are criminals aswell. I'm not a Communist for pointing that out, am I?

If you start killing people or selling drugs, whatever your background is, it is your fault, not the one of the society.

The fault of society would be that some people aren't exactly willing to acknowledge that poverty is a problem that we as a society should have solved ages ago. If society isn't going to do anything about poverty, then its people really shouldn't be surprised to see more anger and more violence in the not-distant-future.

I'll give you an example: We have a few politicians here who claim that it's necessary to lower benefits. To decrease minimum wage. To increase the rent. We have an upper class here who's responsible for this crisis. Who's paying for this crisis? The single mother who doesn't have a husband and who already can't give her children what they need, and not the bank manager who earns millions a year, who's completely responsible for this whole crisis. So who's the scum here? Who's immoral? Who's deliberately throwing people out of their homes now? Who's making people desperate enough to commit crimes? I'm not even going to get into another argument about fault, because to me it's too damn obvious already..

;)
A J   
25 May 2010
News / Polish Policeman shoots down a foreigner in Warsaw [300]

All so-called "poor" blacks and arabs in Netherlands i've seen own at least a flat, a car, expensive clothes, jewelry and a playstation.

That's because those people you've seen have been working.

All because of the high welfare benefits

You don't know much about Holland, do you? You can only recieve an unemployement security here for three months, which will be 75% of your last earned salary. After that, you'll recieve benefits, which are listed below:

Benefits in Holland for 2010.
st-ab.nl/abwnorm29.htm

Younger than 21: Single: 213 € a month. (The cheapest flat you'll find in Holland is going to be more expensive than that.) Married: 426 € a month. Married couple with one person older than 21: 830 € a month. Single parent: 460 € a month.

Older than 21: Single: 617 € a month. Married: 1234 € a month. Single parent: 863 € a month.

This may seem much to Polish people, but you should know that the average rent in Holland is:

cbs.nl/nl-NL/menu/themas/bouwen-wonen/publicaties/artikelen/archief/2010/2010-020-pb.htm

600 €.

they get for sitting on their lazy a##es and pretending they can't get a job because of "discrimination" by employers (as if there can even exist significant discrimination in an extremely politically correct country like the Netherlands that severly punishes any employer who's only vaguely suspected of having ever refused 1 coloured person).

They only get severly punished if it gets proven, but a lot of employers use an awful lot of smart excuses to refuse someone.

CBS Statline Statistics in a report about discrimination.
art1.nl/nprd/factsheets/Discriminatie%20en%20beeldvorming%20op%20de%20arbeidsmarkt.pdf

Scroll down, and have a look at all the statistics in this report. The first graphic you'll see deals with people of all ethnicities who are working. (The word Autochtoon means Dutch nationality, and I'm sure you can figure out the rest of the ethnicities by yourself, because Dutch doesn't differ that much from English really!) The purple bars represent women, and the bordeaux red bars represent men. The second graphic deals with unemployment. Same story there!

Shame on you that you giving these lazy welfare-diggers excuses to rob and rape people because of their "poverrty".

I'm not giving anyone excuses. I'm only presenting factual information from the most reliable sources in Holland, while you're the one who's spreading lies and falsehoods, and you're the one who makes uneducated comments about poverty-related issues, and you're the one who can't prove anything of what you claim, simply because you're lying. Have a nice day.

:)

Exactly. So leave those who, by your admission, are predisposed to poverty and crime where they best belong: in the relative wealth of their countries.

I would rather support aiding and rebuilding programs myself, but unfortunately our right-winged and conservative Christian parties seem to like their cheap labour a little too much, and this includes Geert Wilders. Geert Wilders claims to oppose mass-immigration, but he obviously supports mass-immigration from within the EU. (No wonder, because he has an Hungarian wife!)

Go ahead and blame the Social-Liberals in Holland for this mess, because we never participated in any government. (So who's the libtard here?) Meaning the rest of the corrupt clubs keep us out, including your precious right-winged conservatives. It'll change eventually though, because you can't keep lying forever!

They'll be much happier there. And, at the same time, we'll be able to avoid the inconveniences of "conflicts and problems" that are sure to manifest.

You can tell the exact same to all the Polish immigrants then, because they obviously commit more crimes than some black minorities here. Because no one here ever mentioned anything about people from Indonesia or Surinam, which were former colonies of Holland aswell. These groups even have lower crime rates than the Dutch. Anyway, enough about my country. I think I've proven my point here.

You could show some deference to an elder.

Not if I think he's a closet-racist, because I don't have respect for closet-racists.

:)
A J   
25 May 2010
News / Polish Policeman shoots down a foreigner in Warsaw [300]

I stayed out of this debate as long as I could.

Why? We all know you were dying to say something about black people.

I know that I am not equal to you university educated youngsters.

I did not attend university either. You should know that lacking education doesn't always mean a lack of intellectual capacities.

I am 85 yrs old and my parents were Polish Immigrants..

And?

I keep seeing in here that there were statement made that poverty breeds crime. Bull Schidt!

It's been studied worldwide, by thousands of people, and all of these people came up with the same conclusions. Poverty is a relative concept. If I'm poor here, I'm still rich compared to someone in a third-world country, but being poor here is more of an exception, while being poor in a third-world country is more common. Being poor while you're surrounded by wealthy people means social isolation, which more often than not causes frustration and anger.

My parents along with all of the other Immigrants were dirt poor. This is true with all the other nationalities.

There's the reason. They weren't the exception, because back then a lot of people were poor. Do you know this saying? A shared burden is half the burden. It's true! It's much easier to accept your situation if you're not the exception to the rule, or when people of your group aren't the exception to the rule.

There was no crime.

I guess it's my time to say this is nonsense. For aslong as human societies have existed, crimes have been committed. America hasn't been called the Wild West for nothing you know. Infact, the first immigrants committed the biggest crimes of all. One of these crimes being genocide on the native population.

People worked hard and did without.. There was no welfare.. Everybody pulled his own weight.

They did, and like I've said previously, poverty among the populace was way more common than it is now. People weren't the outcast, or the exception if they were poor in those days. The feeling of being neglected, being treated unfairly, not being treated as an equal and the feeling of not being able to participate in society, that's the whole core of the issue here.

After two World wars, America grew into a mighty nation on the backs of Immigrants.

The very same immigrants who never had any of their priviledges, and who have never enjoyed any benefits of the growing economy. (So it really doesn't surprise me that there's some bad blood there!)

Today America is loaded with wealthy 1st and 2nd generation nationalities.. We were taught to be frugal by our parents.

Yes, and black people were taught not to socialize with white people, not to sit where white people should sit in the bus. (Even if the seat was empty.) or even visit any white people's establishments. And so on. If you're 85, then you know there was still segregation in America after the second world war.

Now, the real reason why some people do not want to admit that poverty breeds crime is because such people need an excuse to blame the ones they're treating unfairly, so that it seems justifiable. This whole subject has been studied intensively worldwide, and it's been proven. Get over it. Your magic trick doesn't work anymore. People don't commit more crimes just because they're black. People commit more crimes when they're poor. You can deny this all you want, but you can also look at statistics. Poor people commit way more crimes than people who are wealthy. None of your theories and none of your comments can disprove this simple fact of life.

Now, why do black people procentually commit more crimes than white people? Because they're black? Why do Polish people procentually commit more crimes than Dutch people? Because they're Slavic? No. Because they're poor and frustrated. It's not a mystery that black people are the poorest ethnicity in America. (Together with illegal immigrants.)

Go ahead, deny it. I know some of you will try to blame criminal behaviour on the culture of black people again, but the truth is that these people don't have a culture. It was taken away from them over all of those years of slavery when they weren't allowed to have a culture. These people actually lost their culture. I know that some of you will also deny the simple fact that Polish people commit more crimes than Dutch people again, a fact which some of you guys have proven yourself by posting the FORUM report. Again, I'm not using the Polish/Dutch thing to insult the Polish, but I'm merely using these figures to prove that poverty breeds crime.

To explain the whole problem in one simple sentence: When you have a group of people who have much more than they actually need, and another group of people who simply don't have enough, you'll see that's going to cause conflicts and problems between those groups.

:)
A J   
24 May 2010
News / Polish Policeman shoots down a foreigner in Warsaw [300]

Maybe Polish people do get exploited in Netherlands, but from the 6-7 years i've lived there i know for sure that no black or moroccan is exploited, yet they top the crime lists. So far for your excuse to commit crime.

You know for sure? How? Do you still live here?

Give me some examples of lies, falsehoods and manipulated facts or keep your mouth shut.

Well, like it or not, but you're spreading falsehoods and manipulate the facts when you use a list of fugitive suspects and somehow manage to claim that these are all the criminals who have committed crimes in Holland, while in reality, it's just one list of current fugitive suspects. It says absolutely nothing about the whole picture. You made it seem like the evidence that coloured people committed more crimes. I can show you other lists from earlier months aswell, and you wouldn't see any coloured people on those lists. Go ahead, you know where to find that site, so you can dig up the previous lists aswell. Sometimes there are more coloured people than white people on those lists, and sometimes there aren't. So that's why I'm saying it's false to claim coloured people commit more crimes when you're using such lists. Okay?

Nobody here has written that all people from a certain skin colour are bad, so what point are you trying to make?

Take a good look at The Racist Thread I've created again, and then tell me how your comments are not racist. Even ZIMMY pointed out such comments are racist, do I need to say more?

Just like MareGaea you first accuse people like me and DariuszTelka (if you read this: you are really excellent in writing what many of us are thinking but can't express because our English writing skills aren't as good as yours! keep on going!) of racism and then you come up with some ridiculous assumptions about us to back it up.

I'm not accusing you. I'm pointing out that a lot of your comments are racist. (Which is a fact.)

Again back up your insults or stop your lying!

I just did. (Again.)

Who do i try to silence? Who do i intimidate? Your mouth is getting bigger and bigger, just like many 3rd world immigrants in your country. At least you do a good job adapting to them, but as a typical leftie, i don't think you will have problems adapting to immigrants.

For your information: A lot of Dutch people consider Polish people third-world immigrants aswell. (I'm not one of those.) Something else you should know: I value European culture above all other cultures. I will always defend our freedom, and I will always defend our way of life. I will always put my own people first. Unfortunately, many of our people are not putting their own people first. I'm merely trying to convince people it's better to find a civilized solution somewhere in the middle, instead of trying to place the blame on one group of people. I'm objective from person to person. (Well, sometimes I lose a bit of my objectivity, but that's why I'm human!)

Poverty doesn't cause crime. Bad people cause crime. Like someone else pointed out, there are many poor people who don't rob or hurt other people.

I've said this earlier, and I will say it again: This subject has been studied worldwide. This is not my opinion. This is a fact of life. So are the Polish people a worse kind of people than Dutch people because they commit more crimes than Dutch people? (That's what you're basically saying.) I'm saying it's because of poverty. I've seen Polish people who were sleeping in stables, and I'm ashamed it happens in my country! I'm not using these figures to give Polish people a bad name, and I'm not trying to tell you Moroccans are doing so great in my country, because they really aren't! I'm simply looking at all these facts to come to a simple conclusion. An objective conclusion. Why? Because I hope to solve problems, instead of creating more problems.

So where are your articles? I haven't seen any.

Well, if you guys can give me a break for a second, then I might actually be able to take a good look into this, because the CBS has a really huge database. Every statistic about every little thing about Holland can be found here. (From how many toothbrushes have been sold to whom and whom commited which crime and when.) It's not something you dig up in a few minutes!

:)
A J   
24 May 2010
News / Polish Policeman shoots down a foreigner in Warsaw [300]

Why dont u send them back to Poland then?

You can find that explanation in the Forum link whatever-his-name-was provided. We can't send them back after they came out of jail, because they're EU citizens, which gives them the right to stay here. (And commit more crimes.)

The results I sited are taken from National Safety Monitor, a joint publication by Statistics for Netherlands, the Ministry of the Interior and Kingdom Relations and the Ministry of Justice.

Can you read Dutch? Or do you always rely on external sources? I will post statistics from the CBS, which is the only reliable source here. It's the only official source when it comes to statistics from our government. Nice try though. Oh, and another question, which period of time are you talking about to be exact? I'm talking about today. Not about last year, or the years before.

You can look it up yourself. No one denies the fact that some Poles did commit crime while in Netherlands, however you are trying to prove it’s due to the influx of Poles in your country and lying as to what the statistics are, purely on some demented logic of yours stemming from sudden fascination of crime statistics without bothering to check out the facts or compare the data to relevant years.

Some Polish people? We're actually talking about tens of thousands of people. I'm not trying to prove crime rates have risen due to Polish people. I'm just simply stating a fact when I say the most crimes are committed by Polish people. And if we're going to speak relatively, then they commit twice as much crimes as Dutch people. (Procentual.) Again, hard facts, which you can also read in the Forum report that your buddy provided us with. In the chapter about crime I believe. Do you even think before you post your links? Or are you just getting a bit too excited because Polish people are responsible for a most of the crimes which are being committed here?

The overall crime in Netherlands was much higher prior to Poles migrating there period, now stop trolling.

I can prove you're wrong, and I will. Infact, your buddy has already proved you wrong by posting that Forum report himself. Trolling? I'm serious. You can gang up on two Dutch people with all your friends in some desperate attempt to save your face by spamming us with questions, through sheer numbers, but that approach will not change the simple facts here.

You still haven't answered much of our questions. All I've seen so far from you guys has been denial and the manipulation of facts. So I suggest you follow your own advice, and stop trolling. Or you can start being honest, and acknowledge simple facts here, instead of trying to divert the conversation with procentual talk. Fact is there are more Polish immigrants in Holland than there are Moroccans. So as a group, in total, they commit more crimes than Moroccans. What's so hard to understand about that?
A J   
24 May 2010
News / Polish Policeman shoots down a foreigner in Warsaw [300]

Here's the evidence that you are lying:

You're desperatly trying the manipulate the facts again. These people are on the list of wanted criminals. These people are being searched for by the police department. This list says absolutely nothing about criminals who have been caught, because caught criminals aren't searched for. So what you really have there, is a list of fugitive suspects. Is this your proof that I'm lying? After the information one of your buddies posted here about 2006 and 2007? It was 2% of the Polish people back then, but I can garauntee you these figures are much higher now.

I'll post it after you've made some ridiculous accusations again. I didn't get to it yesterday, because someone else caught my attention. But I will, don't worry. I'm still waiting for you to answer some of my questions though, and perhaps this is why I don't feel like wasting too much time on you, because you're still displaying an inability to acknowledge a number of hard facts. You're also evading questions about your true nationality, and since I have told you my nationality, it's only decent to answer such questions. (Because it will prove my point that you're not the Poland expert you claim to be. Or even the Polish patriot you claim to be.)

;)
A J   
24 May 2010
News / Polish Policeman shoots down a foreigner in Warsaw [300]

How does that explain the fact that many poor people do not commit crime?

Those people are very strong-willed and have a strong sense of decency, and perhaps it also has to do something with pride. (Or fear.) But there are also people who see corrupt liars and thieves up in the office, people who really have nothing, and such people might think it's justifiable to steal, rob or take something away from the people they see as the biggest criminals. (Which infact, they are.)

I'm not exactly rich either, but I'm not going to rob someone, or steal anything. I know I'm better than that. I've been humiliated to the core though, simply because some people have this strange idea in their minds that it must be you who's too lazy to become wealthy. They expect you to fix everything they've basically recieved on a golden platter, (Which is my opinion of kids with wealthy parents.) but they fail to see they've made everything so expensive that it's incredibly hard to find your way out of such a situation. Some people don't respond well to this kind of public humiliation, which happens from time to time, especially when you've done something stupid. Some people break under this kind of social pressure. (I call it social repression though!) It's not a nice thing to experience, especially not when you know you've always worked hard for your money. I don't need your pity or compassion though, so that's not why I'm telling you. I'm already taking steps to get myself out of this situation, and I'm confident I will make it. Some people aren't confident though, and may have a very low opinion of themselves, or lack the capacity or the opportunities. Anger can be a ***** sometimes. (You'd be angry aswell if you know what it's like, trust me.)

But let me rephrase the question: Have you ever seen Tiger Woods rob someone? Does Obama have a criminal record? Aren't black people fighting alongside white people in the American army? Aren't they fighting to secure your financial interests? It obviously doesn't have anything to do with skin-colour!

Let me rephrase the question again: Have you ever seen a wealthy person break into someone's house for a few Dollars? Have you ever seen a wealthy person rob someone for a few Dollars? I'm willing to bet that you haven't, unless you've seen a cleptomaniac who's addicted to stealing.

;)

Agreed, however, it is a proven fact that crime rates are higher in poor areas and when a poor person steals or kills anyone, it's a criminal.

Poverty causes problems, problems cause crime. There are thousands of Psychologists, Economists and Sociologists who have studied this subject worldwide, and the results don't lie. It's a proven fact of life, but ofcourse these guys here have a better, and more plausible explanation. (They're starting to sound like a bunch of mini-Hitlers if you ask me!)

xD