USA, Canada / US Polonia 70% for Kaczyński [343]

No, they should be disenfranchised for not having a clue. The party that they vote for is irrelevant - the point is that they often make their choices based on garbage Polonia newspapers which lift all their stories from Polish tax-paying media outlets.

How strange of Des, a self-proclaimed liberal, to be defending PiS though. Sums up the inherent contradiction in US Polonia society - and offers an excellent reason why they shouldn't be allowed to vote.

USA, Canada / US Polonia 70% for Kaczyński [343]


I think it's a lot to do with the English language reporting - when you see Jaroslaw Kaczynski being described as the "Conservative" candidate, you get the ridiculous situation where people come on here and assume that he's the "pro-business" candidate.


It's not based on generations, but rather several citizenship laws. It's a bit messy, but it depends on things such as - did the ancestor claim a foreign citizenship before 1962, did they join a foreign army - and some other stuff. But it can only be obtained from the mother or father (and before 1951, only the father if the parents were unmarried) - essentially, a bit of a minefield.


They aren't selfish, but they vote in our elections without paying taxes to the country - perhaps the ultimate act of unpatriotism.

As for the demands - nice to see that you think paying money to the Polish Government is "stupid". I mean - that's 38 million people you're insulting right there.


If they cared half as much about Poland as they say they do, they wouldn't hesitate. Why are you hesitating, Des? Is it because you would prefer to volunteer in Ukraine (which, admittedly, needs help even more than Poland does)?


Actually, most Poles don't want them voting abroad. We already know that they can't make informed choices ;)

USA, Canada / US Polonia 70% for Kaczyński [343]

I think we need to take a step back, guys.

It's obvious that the US Polonia have no real interest in helping Poland - while they're quick to write nasty letters to "enemies", they simply aren't interested in the real problems that Poland has.

I think it's very telling that I've invited several of them to actually come here (at my expense) and help Poland - and not one of them has even had the decency to ask for more details.

Perhaps that could be a novel solution - voting rights can be given to the US Polonia on condition of completing a year long voluntary service contract in Poland.

USA, Canada / US Polonia 70% for Kaczyński [343]


But you don't help homeless alcoholics, abused children, beaten wives, terminal cancer patients, pensioners who spend all their money on medicine, desperate people in former PGR settlements, civilians who struggle to adjust to life after serving their country and more. All these groups need help in Poland - where are you?

Tell you what Des - if you want, you can come and help in a public kindergarten here. They could really use a native speaker of English to help them - both teachers and children. The kindergarten is very poor, as the local council simply doesn't have the money to invest. The director is a lovely woman, who would arrange everything for you.

What about it? I'll even pay your flight ticket.

USA, Canada / US Polonia 70% for Kaczyński [343]


Do they? Polish citizens had an obligation to fight the Communists - did they? Naaah. They sat in America and talked about how patriotic they were. Then there's the part where many of them only obtained Polish citizenship after 2004 - because - surprise, it gave them an EU passport!


Would they? Perhaps Jonny might know best, but I suspect there's quite a few in the US that avoided their military obligations.


Nonsense? They reject Poland by refusing to pay anything to the country to which they claim to be patriotic to.


Poland is calling them right now. We have orphanages, schools, medical centres/etc all in need of people to volunteer. Where are the Polonia? Ah..that's right - too busy waving "pieorgies" in the air to bother with Poland's needy. Meanwhile, foreigners of non-Polish ethnicity come here and do the work.

If they were patriotic, they would pay taxes to Poland too. Poland needs the money more than them, after all.

When was the last time you helped Poland, Des?

USA, Canada / US Polonia 70% for Kaczyński [343]


No-one is too poor in Poland to pay taxes - there's VAT on virtually everything that you can buy. That's enough to enfranchise them.


The poor, the clergy, the unemployed and others all pay taxes in Poland. Some of them pay a large part of their income in taxes. The Polonia pay nothing, like a cheap slut.


Personal insults again.

Life / Looking to immigrate to Europe. How is life in Poland? [116]


It can be, is the best answer.

My local all-night drop in clinic, for instance, is fantastic.

USA, Canada / US Polonia 70% for Kaczyński [343]


It's called "no representation without taxation", a fair moral principle. If you can't be bothered to contribute, why should you have the right to execute, so to speak?


I'll be a Polish citizen in less than 3 years. And you?

As for "prostitutes reasoning", who are you to doubt the oldest profession in the world?


I hope so, there should be uniform rules throughout the EU - but at the very least, voting should only be on the basis of an ID card and not a passport.

USA, Canada / US Polonia 70% for Kaczyński [343]

27,000 too many. When was the last time many of them paid taxes, volunteered or in fact did anything for Poland?

As for meddling in Polish affairs - thank you, but we pay taxes here, so we have the moral right to comment on such things. Unlike the Polonia. The 80% vote for PiS just goes to show how utterly clueless they are about Poland and Polish issues.

Perhaps a basic test should be the question on the ballot paper "what is the Polish word for grandmother?". That would soon prevent Plastic Poles from voting ("Busia" being a wrong answer, obviously) while allowing legitimate Poles their say. A second test could be "What is the plural of pieróg"?

Really, the US Polonia are like red-headed stepchildren.

News / Will you be proud of tranny (transsexual) representing Poland ? [124]

Gotta love Palikot's sense of humour - while the PiS maniacs will be busy slandering her, he'll get on with his job in opposition and will build RP further, making sure that PiS never, ever again win an election.

Life / Are Polish people so chaotic and disorganized like Germans say? [89]


Actually, most motorways now are being built with private money, not public money.

For instance, the A2 from Sweicko to Konin (except the Poznan bypass) has been totally built with private capital. The A1 - same.

USA, Canada / US Polonia 70% for Kaczyński [343]

Now now. They send boxes of junk to Poland and expect that people will be thankful for it.

Strangely enough, I've actually met more non-Polonia Americans that have done stuff for Poland than the Polonia themselves. Shameful.

News / Poland Parliament elections in October 2011 [944]


The sad truth is that many of the PiS supporting types (and let's be honest, most PO types too) sat on their hands and did nothing.

Look at Rydzyk for a great example - he was a total nobody in PRL times. Likewise with Jaroslaw Kaczynski - almost a total nobody. Yet they snipe from the sidelines about people that were actually there.

Law / Not earning yet but spending from previously earned money and other Poland tax issues [22]


It still must be declared - when dealing with foreign income, it's best to declare everything and pay what's owed rather than trying to hope that the tax office doesn't find out. Of course, tourists don't have to pay - they're not resident for more than 185 days a year.


Such a letter wouldn't count - the only thing that's binding in Poland is a personalised decision from the tax office.


Exactly. Making a declaration is the safe way forward - of course, they might question it, but that's where documentary proof comes in.

As in any country - if you're resident for tax purposes, they can do what they want. Best just to declare the income and save yourself trouble down the line.

Law / Not earning yet but spending from previously earned money and other Poland tax issues [22]


Yes, if you want to go down that road. They'll be looking for 5 years of work history.


Technically, yes - you should be declaring this income. Poles can be jealous types - if the taxman comes calling and you've got a nicely furnished flat with all sorts of electrical goodies, but no job - it might arouse suspicion. However, your situation isn't uncommon.


If you spend more than 185 days a year here, yes.


Of course. You'll be resident in Poland, and will pay tax accordingly. For what it's worth - dividends are taxed at 19%.

Real Estate / Zameldowanie and the landlord presence vs rental contract only [6]

Apparently a written contract (with full details of who both parties are, including ID numbers and so on) is enough - but many 'landlords' won't want to give this because they don't want the tax office finding out.

Life / Looking to immigrate to Europe. How is life in Poland? [116]



I know plenty of people with decent careers outside of Warsaw.

I even know people in small towns who have decent careers. It's there if you want it.

USA, Canada / US Polonia 70% for Kaczyński [343]

You have to love the way that Americans feel the need to involve themselves in all sorts of things that doesn't concern them - they even want to interfere in Polish politics!

News / Poland Parliament elections in October 2011 [944]


What's amazing about it? Palikot doesn't incite people to openly defy the state, Palikot didn't openly court football hooligans, nor does Palikot talk about conspiracy theories and so on.


And what about their other policies that you conveniently forgot to mention?

As for the church - are you honestly telling me that you think that the Church should continue to receive handsome subsidies from the State? I mean, there are young people out there earning 2000zl a month and getting 1400zl in the hand - while priests are making far more and getting taxed less. That's not fair, is it?


They're not patriotic. When was the last time you actually saw PiS do anything for the country? These people aren't patriotic - if they were, they would love their country - and support its rulers, whoever they may be.


That's not what gives PiS a bad name. No-one has any issue with chanting Jaroslaw - the issue is with what he says.


Using petty insults like that won't get you anywhere.

Don't you see that the reason that PiS lost again is all because of this petty sniping and attacks on others? People have kept them in opposition for exactly this - they don't want to listen to the PM attack others, they want the PM to get on with the job of actually leading the country.

Anyway, the result of the election is very interesting. PO/PSL only lost 4 seats between them - which is a remarkable result. But interestingly, PiS lost 9 - it's a clear rejection of their strategy, even by people who previously voted for them. No matter how you spin it, the opposition totally failed to do anything in this election - and shows that PiS are simply unelectable for whatever reason. It's actually a disaster for PiS - because now, PO can be supported by any one of PSL/SLD/RP and still have a majority in the Sejm. The *only* result for them was that they managed to retain the "blocking vote" for constitutional reform - but again - if a mere 3 deputies "cross the floor" - then they'll lose that, too.

News / Poland Parliament elections in October 2011 [944]


No, that's nothing to do with it. PiS wants the companies to be run by the State so that they can guarantee menial, worthless jobs for all the unemployed, lazy moustaches who want a return to the Communist way of doing things - where they had guaranteed holidays, flats, cars, etc.


What makes you think that Poles don't have shares in Jeromino Martins?


Ah, PiS logic - give us the cash, but we don't want to actually..you know...allow you to do anything.


But there's one thing you're missing - PiS are ideologically opposite to the other parties. It's not just PO, but the PSL/RP/SLD too - all these parties are totally opposite to PiS.


You disagree with the free market, opportunities for youth, fair taxation for all, decent living wages, etc?


History shows that there's not much they can do - 30% is about their level of support. Unless they change completely, they'll never get the magic 40% number, and those changes will alienate the lunatic 10% or so.


Not quite. If they dropped a lot of the POLSKA NASZA POLSKA stuff - that 10% of lunatics who vote for them based on that crap would find someone else to support. As it stands, their strategy guarantees them perpetual opposition, but still 30%.

PiS aren't finished, but Kaczynski is.

USA, Canada / US Polonia 70% for Kaczyński [343]

This thread illustrates perfectly why the US Polonia should never be allowed near a Polish election.

News / Poland Parliament elections in October 2011 [944]


He certainly is able to rouse his electorate, that much is sure. What he knows - well - if we view politics as solely about winning votes, he does it well. But not well enough - he's now lost something like 14 elections and won 2 in his entire time as a political leader.


The media didn't destroy Kaczynski, he destroyed himself. A lot of the time, especially in the last year - Gazeta Wyborcza made a distinct point of reporting nothing but his actual words. Often, it was enough.


It's not PO dominance, but rather a clear rejection of PiS and their ideology. You might look at the 40-30% split and think 'hmm, close' - but when you consider that 70% of the seats in the Sejm have gone to parties that are ideologically opposed to PiS - it's a very clear rejection.


Do you have any evidence that the crash wasn't investigated properly? The military prosecutors would be *very* interested in hearing from you.


You do realise that PiS has their own problems with corruption, too?

I'm sitting in a Polish owned business right now that has gone from 2 employees to 40 employees (actually, technically, more like 50 when you count part time workers) in 2 years. This isn't the exception, but the rule. Incidentally, what's the problem if the businesses are owned by Germans, or indeed anyone else? Germans don't have a problem with Poles owning businesses there.

At the end of the day, telling people to 'wake up' and suchlike is just going to cause not 4, but 8 years in the wilderness. Palikot got 10% because people are sick of Solidarity/Communist politicans dictating to them.

News / Poland Parliament elections in October 2011 [944]


Yeah yeah yeah. When did you ever suggest that you supported NP and Korwin-Mikke?

Palivec - we can't even talk about Polska A an B anymore! Poland is firmly behind PO - that much is obvious.

It strikes me that if Palikot didn't have his movement, we would've seen PO actually score higher than in 2007.

Latest results -


As it stands - PO can form a coalition with any one from Ruch Palikota, SLD or PSL. Excellent news all round. The only issue is that PiS appear to have done *just* enough to win 1/3rd of the seats, so they will be able to block constitutional reform. However, it doesn't seem impossible that a few people will defect from PiS.

USA, Canada / US Polonia 70% for Kaczyński [343]

Indeed, it's a useful reminder that while Poles rejected PiS and their ideology by 70-30 - the American Polacks haven't got a ******* clue.

News / POLAND TO BECOME THE NEXT GREECE? [28]


You really have no idea about how the European Union works, do you?

Normal for Americans to not understand, though. Perhaps you could start by examining the exit clause contained within Lisbon, and remind yourself of how the Sejm, the Bundestag, etc can simply repeal Lisbon at any time they wish.

News / Poland Parliament elections in October 2011 [944]


Let's be honest here - you're just bitter that your men have lost. Again.

I think it's time to abandon straight faces and start pointing it out directly - you and your ilk are nothing but losers. I mean, all the way through, you never once made any claim to support NP and Korwin-Mikke, but now, you suddenly claim to do so. Utterly spineless, I'd say.

You can sit here ranting about PO all you want - the truth is that no NP supporter would ever dream of voting for PiS, apart from perhaps a tiny, tiny amount of people - but most of them absolutely abhor PiS and their socialist policies. And I know this - because I know a real supporter of NP who is very involved with them. Incidentally, NP voters also tend to be a bit more clued up and don't tend to resort to childish insults towards a party - that's PiS behaviour.

Still, no doubt based on the results, we'll see about 10% of people claiming to have voted for Korwin-Mikke's friends while they'll get about 1% in reality. Hahahaha, etc.

Ah well, we can look forward to another 3 years of total PO dominance. All fun and games, especially when the policies against the 30% start hurting them. Can't say I'm particularly bothered about such people.

News / Poland Parliament elections in October 2011 [944]


Most?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_voting

Only 12 countries enforce it. Not really "most", is it?


What rules? The rules haven't changed since 1991 - compulsory voting would achieve nothing here except a vast amount of spoiled-on-purpose ballots. Jeez, making Poles do anything is a bad idea ;)

News / Poland Parliament elections in October 2011 [944]

Democracy includes the right not to vote.

News / Poland Parliament elections in October 2011 [944]


We need to say nothing - your lot lost, why should we justify a thing to you?

From now on, your points, your views, they're all absolutely worthless as a PiS supporter. PiS are finished, hey hey, na na, goodbye.

Shameful that you're now claiming to vote NP though - are you really that honourless? Thank **** that at least some people are capable of retaining their dignity in defeat.


Don't quote me on this, but I think PiS already had lost it.


If this exit poll is right - the PJN/NP votes would have been *just* enough to give the magic 1/3rd amount.

(gumishu, I look forward to talking with you about how things are in the future - you're the only one who hasn't suddenly done an about-turn and claimed to vote for someone else - and I respect that. The mockery about rats most definitely doesn't apply to you)

By the way - as a PiS voter - how do you feel about Kaczynski's leadership from here? Are you still behind him - or do you think it's time for a change?

News / Poland Parliament elections in October 2011 [944]


Small percentage?

Nearly 50% of the electorate voted, or around 15 million from 30 million. Not a small percentage at all.