News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]


Now that didn't work that way, didn't it?

Her "opening the border" (even as this is a misconception) threw a kind of big cog in the german and european wheel...and then since Silvester 2015 nothing was quite the same anymore as before...stability she got not!

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]


I was just asking because you kind of blamed the Brexit on Merkel...as if it would made a difference for the Brexiters who sits in the chancellery in Berlin...

But I see scapegoating the EU for every british pimple is still en vogue with some Brits! :)

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]

Will Britan then come back?

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]

That's true too...one can blame Merkel for alot of things but she is no wonder woman! :)

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]

And then what? Stay at home? Weakening the democracy through non-voting?

Or wouldn't that rather be the reason for the growing number of "Protest Wähler"? Voting for an enemy to show the party leader the finger, hoping to kick off a change in said party, so that the leader get's kicked out by the party because of the decreasing percents in the polls?

Is that really the best way?

I think the phenomenon of millions of non-voter and the rising numbers of protest voters are a consequence of an unlimited term...and the impossibility for the voters to change that in a election.

(Okay...that this unlimited term goes hand in hand with a repeated grand coalition plays also a big part in that. But that is also a consequence)

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]


But you know that the longer the term, the more disgraced the leader always became....He/She could have left with an better image if he/she would had gone on her own time earlier.

Does it has to be always this way? That the party/the voters has to drag him/her out of the chancellory at last against his/her will? Do you think that's okay?

Especially in the german variant of the parliamentary democracy...where the voter don't directly elect the leader but the party. People can still sympathize with a party, and want to vote for her instead of her rivals, but still grow tired of it's leader. What are they gonna do?

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]

Yeah...we should definitely limit the terms! It never ended well, not once!!!

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]

Crowie...can't you take it to a more fitting thread please?

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]


What brings that on? Haven't you been always rather a defender of her?

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]

Yes, me nodding means I agree! :)

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]


*nods*

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]


You see already how they are split...black against white...the liberal Mega Cities on the East and West Coast against the conservative inner "heart land"...

California is talking of secession, no joke...they don't need an outer enemy, they see enough enemies inside as it is...

Germany's and Europe's future?


True! :)

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]


And once the to be expected inner problems start to rise in your Empire/bloc/conglomerate, will you keep blaming the Vatican and others for it? Will you start using "foreign enemies" as easy scapegoat for your selfmade problems? Again? Will you go to war to defend yourself (or so you say) against them? Starting blood shed and destruction? Again?

Do you really want to go through all that? Again?

I don't!

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]


Not wrong...but logical!

You want to put millions of people with diverse cultural backgrounds all in one bloc.....that can't work, Crowie! Been there, done that!

Not "mind set"....real existing historic experiences!!!

You are not even starting with values but want to give all these millions just a common past, that they may or not may have all startet out as Sarmatians, the justification for your Empire/bloc. And you believe that would be enough for such a diverse people...

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]


I'm not the one dreaming of the rebirth of a slavic bloc....because of it's diversity it can't be either peaceful nor stable in the long run...to keep it you would need much pressure. That just isn't a nice future to look forward too.

Hopefully the only future conglomerate in Europe will be a truly european one...neither germanic nor slavic nor another one build on one identity strictly limited against another one. Europe is much to diverse for that.

How the Europeans will manage that, now with addding many more identities from far away, I dunno...but it's our only chance!

And I really prefer a federation to a conglomerate though....:)

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]


You always make one big error...you talk of the "Slavs" as one big homogenous mass with only one identity. With maybe only one common goal, their hate against all things Germanic/West.

But the slavic people are diverse, with different histories and cultures. (Even if you abit desperatedly try to give them the one same founding mythos in the Sarmatians).

The slavic bloc you want to build, with Belgrade as capital, would be doomed from the start when the many different slavic identities would chafe against each other. You would need again a brutal, bloody "iron fist" to keep them together.

Your dream of an slavic empire would become again a nightmare for many Slavs...

As I see it you want to repeat history.... But you must search for new answers, for new ideas...not re-make the old errors!

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]

In my future Europe there won't be this one capital wich rules all but many...many more than now! :)

IMHO, that is for me the only way a unified EU-Europe can work. As a federation of highly independent regions.

As it goes now it goes down...and that is not good for Europeans.

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]

PS: If you are mainly concerned with your hate against the nationstate Germany though, a future federal regionalization could be an answer for you too! :)

Imagine a regionalized Europe....where every regional identity will be valued and doesn't have to fight against another, fearing to be overwhelmed by strangers...


Agreed...and regionalization is the answer, IMHO...not the building of huge blocs containing many identities again. We have experienced that, it doesn't work.

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]

"North American Civilization"? In Central Europe?

But frankly I'm not so sure about building two powerful blocs inside Europe again...that leads only to war.

Europe needs to bundle it's powers. Not split in two again, that is weakening us only...

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]

And then?

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]

You could actually say that about every artificial nation state...but they have proven to be enormous successful for their time.

The growing globalisation shows the end though...starting with ending the folk the nation has been build on once....

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]

I would call it "regionalization"...more or less a deepening of an already federal character. And yes, I think that would be a viable future option. Germans always had a very strong regional identy, stemming from the "good 'ol times" of 500 (more or less) little and not so little kingdoms. It was not the worst time in german history.

I think that this could be an answer to a a growing splitting of an once homogenous people. "One government for all" becomes less feasable, it doesn't fit anymore the many groups and identities.

Big cities for example have different needs than the people on the flat lands...very big mega cities could even become their own region with a Bürgermeister as powerful as a former chancellor but with limited influence (only his town)...it would be an option and a way out.

These new times need new ideas....new strategies and new political ways.

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]


Na ja....this East German "mentality" you speak off seems to live on happily even as the unification is now nearly 30 years old and a whole new generation has been born and grown up in Germany including learning all about democracy and stuff in school.

Similiarities to the second and third generation of turkish immigrants which also seem to be less integrated than their parents and grand parents? Totally voluntarily! They too wandered through the same school system...that "teaching" seems to have it's limits concerning ethnical and cultural identity.

Maybe there is a natural limit of "integration" generally? Which makes the theory of a peaceful, stable multi-ethnic society again less probable....


Germany as a whole IS East Germany plus West Germany....:)


Agreed...and what happens now in East Germany is an inkling what could happen to (till now) still stable and peaceful West Germany once a real economical crisis hits. But now with additionally millions of immigrants!

I wonder if any of our political leaders has any plan for that besides empty phrases.

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]


Exactly! When Germany already has problems to integrate East Germans, how can you believe the integration of millions of non-Europeans will keep peace and stability in Germany?

Germans are already split and disintegrating...and all that as Germany till now is still one of the best countries to live in and provides much comfort and security for most.

The coming economical changes (digitalization) will be enormous and are difficult enough already for a quite unified homogenous people...but a split, infighting country made up of many disagreeing groups?

That can destroy us!


May be...there are alot different mentalities in Germany for example between Bavarians and Frisians! I wouldn't call it "wrong" though! :)

But the main difference had made the years between 1961 to 1989. It's useless to ignore that. That's the backlash now for this ignorance. There is a reason other eastern european countries are much closer to us than our west-german brethren.

And that story does not end now...

I can imagine that East Germany becomes a region...like Bavaria...with enormous federal independence and maybe even a party and politicians which care more about Eastern Germans than the rest...like the CSU.

That would be a logical consequence and maybe loosen some of the tensions. But that most leader in East Germany are Wessis is no longer feasable...it doesn't work anymore...

Just some ideas...

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]

I doubt he is happy about these people...I doubt he ever wanted THAT!

Genealogy / Slavs are descendants of Sarmatians? [600]

Understood....and we aren't going anyhwere, have lotsa patience and can wait! :)

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]

Aren't these religious fanatics the bane ouf our world?

Genealogy / Slavs are descendants of Sarmatians? [600]


Thing is Crowie...without any comprehensible links I could also "inform" you about the fact that the moon is made up from blueberry joghurt. One can choose to believe me or not...it would be a case of BELIEVE not proof!

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]

One word...the Balkan!

And I doubt the Habsburg Empire was more peaceful...all this "stability" was rather an illusion, forced through with an "iron fist" by a dictator (Tito) or a monarchy.

And I also doubt that western democratic countries count as multi-ethnic yet...since the far majority is still native and quite homogenous. But there are cracks showing already (burning Banlieus in France) where that changed.

The Brexit is also a quite peaceful but still enormous upheaval as in consequence of a rising demographical change through immigration...

And Germany has since 2015 at the latest also not the same quite serene feeling anymore. But it can still provide chances, jobs and a social net. Imagine that all turning around and down in the next crisis.

That topic has been of interest for awhile now:
google.com/search?num=100&newwindow=1&safe=off&ei=lui1W-jIGarKgAbXg6yoAg&q=stability+multi+ethnic&oq=stability+multi+ethnic&gs_l=psy-ab.3..33i21k1.47370.52625.0.53137.22.22.0.0.0.0.150.2240.7j14.21.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..1.21.2227...0j0i67k1j0i22i30k1j0i22i10i30k1j33i160k1.0.bByD7CrHvGk

Remember the desastreous 30 years war? White Europeans mass murdering each other where the only difference had been the christian leaning (catholics/protestants).

Our future societies will be much more diverse than that!

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]

Hmm....age plays surely a role but what about studies which shows that diverse societies are less stable/peacefull than others. With less stability the more diverse.

More or less a splitting of ethnic/cultural groups in one country...not one "Staatsvolk" anymore, but many.

I'm not so sure such instability desireable...we already get an inkling about what that could mean in today's infighting Germany.