Work / I have to decide between two job offers, Berlin vs Wroclaw [44]

Berlin is big and busy. There is little sense of permanence. What you see today might not be there tomorrow. I frequently visited the city, both sides, in the early eighties. When I went back there in 2004 and later, there was little that I recognized except a few landmarks. It really changed a lot. I was a bit disappointed that a lot of the things that I wanted to see again had disappeared without a trace. I guess that's part of life, though.

Wrocław, on the other hand, is one of the most "comfortable" cities that I have ever lived in. It fits like an old shoe, in a good way, and it's really easy to get around with the tram system. You could actually walk anywhere that's worth going to in an hour at most, end to end. It's not easy to get lost. While not a major metropolis like Berlin, it has an interesting and diverse cultural scene that will keep you more than busy, regardless of your tastes. Stand-by tickets for the opera are only 10 PLN. 20 PLN for the best seats. I introduced a lot of students to opera thanks to that. The students add to the atmosphere. That was something that was true in the old West Berlin that I just didn't feel this time around. Although, in the summer, with the students gone, Wrocław can feel a bit deserted. It feels a lot more "genuine" than Kraków, which always seemed a bit fake and staged to me. Wrocław has tourists, but they never overwhelm the native population, even in the town square.

Wrocław is also the most "western" city in Poland. It feels more like western Europe than like Warsaw or Kraków. A couple months after moving there with one of my students, he asked me whether I was going Poland for Christmas before he realized what he said and corrected himself. That's how different it feels from the rest of Poland.

About the only thing that Wrocław lacks, or lacked when I was there, was a direct express train to Prague. Instead, you had to go through Dresden. And a better train connection to Warsaw, although that steadily improved during my stay there. And the gastronomic scene is a bit disappointing for a city of that size. I saw a lot of restaurants come and go during my stay there, including most of my favorites. As a die-hard foodie, I had to do a lot of traveling to Cieszyn, which, for a small town, has an amazing food scene on both sides of the border. Or a lot of my own cooking.

Love / English proposing to a Polish lady [31]


That's easy as pie. Ask her sisters or her friends. They will know.

Love / Urgent Relationship help - wife wants to stay in Poland [118]


Read again. My advice was to cut off all communication until he speaks to his lawyer, not forever. And then to conduct all communication in accordance with his lawyers guidelines.

Work / I have to decide between two job offers, Berlin vs Wroclaw [44]


Those things you are thinking about can only be enjoyed if you are financially secure. The only people who don't worry about money are those who already have enough. And there are very, very few professional expats from the subcontinent that fit into that group. They think about nothing else than advancing their careers and earning well, and ending their stint with money in the bank. They are not interested in Poland because of the "quality of life" while living like a hippie nonsense. Those would be the people who did not bust their a$$es going through engineering school.


In the real world, the lack of money is the root of all evil. Especially true for working expats with families to raise.

Work / Polish / Irish couple with kids moving to Warsaw - finding a job without any connections. [37]


Pretty much useless in Poland, especially if he doesn't speak Polish. Had a Polish friend, an experienced CFO, try the same and it didn't take off. Businesses have gotten stingy with that sort of thing since the economic crisis started, and that sort of market still has not recovered. If he has any chance it all, it will be if he finds a good job BEFORE he comes to Poland. Don't count on him finding one after he comes to Poland.

With a total net income of about 20,000 PLN, you won't have problems living comfortably by Polish standards, even if he doesn't find work. Saving for the kids' college funds and your retirement would be the main things holding you back. And him sitting around the house with nothing to do.

Love / Urgent Relationship help - wife wants to stay in Poland [118]


You really, really, really need to talk long and hard with a good divorce lawyer. ASAP.

Work / Salary expectations for CAE engineer in Poland? [7]


That's a long shot. Entry level engineering jobs generally pay 5000 or 6000 PLN. 10,000 PLN usually requires at least some managerial or technical specialist experience. You could always ask and see if they bite, though. Since that is your rock-bottom limit, there is not reason not to ask for that much. They're still getting you for less than half of what you would receive in Germany, so there is no need to be shy about naming your price.

As for the girlfriend, it's a story I've seen played out time and time again during my twelve years in Poland, and it's a common theme on this forum, ad nauseam. Polish girlfriend misses her family and wants naive foreign boyfriend to move back with her, telling him that he can easily find work there. It practically never works out for a whole bunch of reasons: He can't find a good job, he can't manage living in close proximity to the "in-laws", he's socially isolated and dependent because he can't speak the language.... and so on. Usually, the relationship ends on a sour note. I've had too many guys crying on my shoulder over nonsense like this.

If you think you can be one of the exceptions, knock yourself out. You might been because at least you have some saleable qualifications in contrast to most of the poor suckers who fall for this line. And a big plus is that you can cut and run back to a well paid job in Germany if things go sour. Another big plus is with 10,000 PLN a month you won't have to put up with any BS from the in-laws.

One last thing: find that job BEFORE you move. Don't count on finding one after you move.

Work / Polish / Irish couple with kids moving to Warsaw - finding a job without any connections. [37]

@Annitta

A lot of that depends on what qualifications your husband has (I'm assuming he's the non-Pole). At his age, really the only thing that would pay well is a job as a higher-level manager, administrator, consultant or highly qualified technical specialist in technology or finance. There aren't very many other options that pay well enough to support an ex-pat family. Some specifics would help.

To many unknowns. What are the kids ages? Do they and your husband speak Polish well? Are the kids going to require private schooling, which is very expensive? What are your long-term goals, especially regarding your kids' education?

Generally, the problems couples like you face are that the non-Polish partner is unable to find well-remunerated employment, that the children will require expensive schooling, and that family income, and, more importantly, savings potential will be much lower than in the west. Savings potential is usually the deal breaker, especially for a couple that has kids to send to private school and college and that has to save up for retirement.

Why, exactly, do you want to move back to Poland? And are your husband and kids aboard?

Will they be able to leave their friends behind and adjust to a new environment?

Work / I have to decide between two job offers, Berlin vs Wroclaw [44]


A sentiment I share. I had a wonderful time in Poland. But I am highly qualified and experienced, and had cash enough in the bank so that I did not have to worry. I had NO competition while in Poland, and was able to name my price, or afford to be generous, just for fun. And I speak the language, and went to great pains to learn about the culture.


That's a non sequitur. I can recommend it only to a select, and small, subset. For most, it's a lousy option. Especially when so many better options exist. And they do.

Think of the poor Indian student who realizes that he just got suckered into paying his parents' life savings for a degree that will qualify him for washing dishes or cleaning toilets.

Or of the poor Indian engineer who figures out that he is earning a quarter of what his colleagues who "shifted" to richer countries are making, as would he if he had done a proper job search.



For an expat professional, quality of life is virtually synonymous with savings potential. Everything else is window dressing.

Work / I have to decide between two job offers, Berlin vs Wroclaw [44]


There is that, that is true, and there is the fact that savings potential is abysmally low (the prime criterion for prospective professionals) and that the quality of courses taught in English is dismal. The fact that the local language is not a "plug and play" language nor is "portable" like major western European languages is another consideration. Low R&D spending is yet another factor.

I also can't figure out why Jon is enthralled by the idea of immigration, especially from the subcontinent or Africa. It's not a magic solution to any of Poland's problems, like the Turkish and Yugoslavian gastarbeiter were for Germany's labor shortage in the 60s. It pains me that Poland has stooped so low as to rip off unsuspecting students from poor countries to raise cash. This scam disgusts me to the core.

Work / I have to decide between two job offers, Berlin vs Wroclaw [44]

@jon357

Transients do not build support networks, and wages and job opportunities will have to go up a lot before Poland becomes an inviting place to settle that can compete with the richer countries.

Any popularity that Poland enjoys as a destination is due to its being perceived as a backdoor to the richer countries of the EU.

And no, there is nothing inherently good about this. Or inherently bad. It's just an unwise move in most cases, and practically never the best option available to the poster in question.

Work / I have to decide between two job offers, Berlin vs Wroclaw [44]


Mostly written by Indians, who, unlike Italians, have to pay a substantial amount for travel, visa and relocation. And who are almost all engineers that could earn substantially more in richer countries. Or students who do not have enough to pay for their studies and hope in vain to find part-time work to pay their way.

There is a huge difference between an Italian and an Indian, and it doesn't have to do with race.


Most of the students that start don't finish, either because they lack funds or because they come to the realization that a degree from an English-speaking course is worthless on the job market. Most of the workers abscond to greener pastures or return home within a year or two because the wages are so low. Few stay longer, and even fewer settle.

Work / I have to decide between two job offers, Berlin vs Wroclaw [44]

@jon357

Careful about the assumptions there, young man. Or you'll make a fool of yourself again.

Love / Urgent Relationship help - wife wants to stay in Poland [118]

@BritboyByd

I hope you asked them about the repercussions of each alternative in terms of property, alimony, child support, visitation rights and custody.

Work / I have to decide between two job offers, Berlin vs Wroclaw [44]


4300 net is a different story, especially as you don't have to pay much for travel and visa. As long as you stay away from the unholy trinity of alcohol, tobacco and girls, you will even have a little left over for a rainy day fund. No major savings, but at least enough to pay your way back to Italy if things don;t work out.

For people from outside of the EU, the cost of travel, visa and residency permit is quite substantial.

For orientations sake:

Studio apartment, all inclusive, rent fees and utilities: 1500 PLN.

One bedroom ditto, 1900 PLN.

Food and household expenses, about 1000 PLN. Less if you cook all meals from scratch at home, more if you eat or snack away from home a lot.

Public transit, about 100 PLN.

I won't give a figure for internet/TV/telephone because people's expectations and requirements vary widely.

Budget about 300-600 PLN for basic clothing and occasional living expenses.

So that's a minimum of about 3000 PLN right there, before entertainment and travel, and health care.

So yes, you could do it, if you are modest and careful. As for Berlin, it would be quite difficult to live the same lifestyle on 1350 Euro,

Work / I have to decide between two job offers, Berlin vs Wroclaw [44]

@jon357

There's no putting lipstick on this pig.

Work / I have to decide between two job offers, Berlin vs Wroclaw [44]

@Wulkan

Living on 1350 Euro in Berlin would be, as Jon points out, even worse. Though I do have to agree about there being more opportunities, especially for unskilled laborers. There's no shortage of unskilled labor in Wrocław.

Work / I have to decide between two job offers, Berlin vs Wroclaw [44]


He would, because he has to deduct the cost of his travel, visa and residency permit from his net wages, and he cannot live as cheaply as a native Pole because he does not know the language, the city or the culture, and does not have a network of family and friends to rely on. Nor is there going to be any social help or rainy-day fund if he needs it. Nor any way out.

Work / I have to decide between two job offers, Berlin vs Wroclaw [44]


Regardless of what they are, living like a cockroach in Wrocław is hardly an attractive option, The oven sounds much more attractive.

Work / I have to decide between two job offers, Berlin vs Wroclaw [44]


Oh, no, it isn't. Nothing $ucks more than being in a foreign country without two pennies to rub together and no way out.

Work / I have to decide between two job offers, Berlin vs Wroclaw [44]


If he's looking abroad for jobs in that wage range then he might as well stick his head in the oven and get it over with already.

Wroclaw and Berlin are both wonderful cities to live in.... IF you have cash. If not, you might as well be back in Kolkata or Lagos.

Love / Urgent Relationship help - wife wants to stay in Poland [118]


In Ireland, too, every single lawyer wants you to keep you fat gob shut and your hands in your pockets unless they specifically tell you exactly what to say or do and when to do so. In a court case, a client with loose lips is their own worst adversary.

Work / I have to decide between two job offers, Berlin vs Wroclaw [44]


On 4300 gross, the only fun he will be able to afford is masturbation. Without tissues or hand lotion. The relocation costs are going to take a huge chunk of out his net earnings. With zero savings, ne will be effectively trapped.

Work / I have to decide between two job offers, Berlin vs Wroclaw [44]

@bahamut88

For 4300 PLN a month gross, it is not worth coming to Wrocław. Once you figure in the cost of your travel, visa and residency permit, you will have enough only to live the most frugal lifestyle, with zero savings, and maybe even lose out on the deal.

Same with the job in Berlin. It's peanuts and you would have to sleep under a bridge.

Love / Urgent Relationship help - wife wants to stay in Poland [118]


Talk to a lawyer first before doing anything. What might seem innocent to you can, and will, be used against you in a court of law. Your lawyer will advise you what to say and how to behave. You're paying him to keep yourself out of legal pitfalls. Until then, work with your bank to document every single penny you have sent to Poland.


It works the same in every legal system. American, British, Polish or Burkino Fasan: it's best to let your lawyer do the talking, and act only on strict accordance with their instruction. No lawyer on the planet wants their client to open their fat gob unless specifically instructed to do so.

Love / Urgent Relationship help - wife wants to stay in Poland [118]


Do yourself and your lawyer a huge favor and cut off all communications with her. Do not speak or write to her or anybody else about this except for your lawyer. Do not respond to any communications from her, no matter how much you are tempted. Let your lawyer do all the talking, and butt the fcuk out. They have a job to do and the only thing you can do is damage. Don't send any money unless your lawyer tells you to.

As far as the kids are concerned, you need to talk to your lawyer about that. Nobody here can tell you anything useful.

About the watch, what you did is common theft, not "gathering evidence". You need to speak to your lawyer about that pronto.

Many a potentially pain-free divorce has been ruined by one or both of the parties not being able to keep their legally uniformed gobs shut. Trust your lawyer to do the groundwork for you, and don't interfere with his game. That's what you are paying them the big bucks to do.

Work / Salary expectations for CAE engineer in Poland? [7]

@CAE Engineer

You'd be lucky to get a third of that in Poland, half at the very best. But it is not wages that are important as much as how much you are able to put in the bank at the end of the month, and that's going to be a lot lower.

On top of that, Poland is a country with low R&D investment, so jobs of this sort are usually in outsourced floor production, which is boring and poorly paid.

The opportunity loss in terms of savings potential would make any job in Poland rather unattractive. The reason you are finding so little information on the internet is because very few western engineers are tempted to come to Poland, especially for entry-level jobs.

Good opportunities exist only for highly experienced, high qualified engineers with management, administrative. consulting or highly specialized technical experience who work for western companies and are willing to be transferred to Poland at western wages. But if you are just starting out, then it will be at least ten years before you would be considered for such a position.

What are the "many personal reasons" you speak of? If that means a member of the opposite sex, forget about it. Their chance of making it in Germany or elsewhere in the West are astronomically higher than yours of making it in Poland.

Work / English childcare in Poland? Other work opportunities? [6]


Sorry. That should be "not many employers",

Work / English childcare in Poland? Other work opportunities? [6]

@okfriend

As you are a non-EU citizen, an employer would have to get a work permit to hire you, and those are hard to come by. In order for you to get permission to stay, they would also have to give you a full-time position with a real full-time contract, which many employers are willing to go through the hassle of providing.

Positions like the ones your friend mentioned usually go to people who already have permission to stay in Poland. For real jobs in education, your qualifications will have to be recognized by the government, and that is a long, drawn out and costly process. Probably not even worth considering. Call centers might hire you, but they pay poorly, and the work is crap.

You should also be aware that positions in child care are extremely poorly paid. Even if you were to land a real full-time position, you would barely earn enough to survive, and would not be able to save up even a modest rainy day fund.

My advice is to take advantage of all the opportunities available to you in Canada to up-school yourself, get relevant and saleable work experience, and build up a network of real-life contacts who you can rely on to find better work. None of those opportunities will be available to you in Poland. Poland is not a nice place for those who do not possess a solid education and relevant work experience in select fields that are in demand (mostly IT and finance).

Why did you think of coming to Poland?

Study / How to get into a Polish university? [7]


They get it from the Polish state, which guarantees free secondary education to all citizens, regardless of age (as do most developed countries). Two of my students went to such schools, both while still teenagers; one because he missed a year of liceum when his mother died and he couldn't deal with it (went on to be top of his class in Bohemistyka at the University of Wroclaw and finished his masters with distinction), the other because he failed in his first year of lyceum (now finishing his third year in a very demanding course in civil and environmental engineering at the University of Detroit Mercy on a full-ride scholarship). Most of their classmates were in their twenties and thirties, and some even older. There were both full-time and part-time (zaoczne) programs available.

However, if the OP intends to go that route, it will take two years of full-time study, and loads of reading, to be able to pass the matura exam, even with the help of a tutor.