Law / Bureaucracy in Poland [53]

Just your PESEL I think ;) ;) That way the police can identify you and give them a job too ;) ;)

Be sure to report this posting to GUS, Soggy :)

Law / Bureaucracy in Poland [53]

That would be too simple. Throw in complications and you keep your job by giving yourself a new task. Poles have a hard time of it too.

History / WAS KATYŃ GENOCIDE? Polish officers were killed [237]

It doesn't matter. It was a crime conducted during a war. The label is just different.

History / WAS KATYŃ GENOCIDE? Polish officers were killed [237]

Torq, the important thing was that the Soviets invaded and took Polish POW's. It doesn't need an official declaration in this case.

History / WAS KATYŃ GENOCIDE? Polish officers were killed [237]

Nope, there was a war going on from Sep 3 1939. Also, they were classed as POW's. Furthermore, civilians were affected, a major part of a war crime.

The leader knew that there would be a war and it was a war crime in nature. Besides, the invasion had already happened.

History / WAS KATYŃ GENOCIDE? Polish officers were killed [237]

Torq, the Soviets had already crossed the border and the war was already under way. It fitted the billing of a war crime because it served the ends of a wartime objective. It was wilful killing designed to further their ultimate post-war objective of imposing communism with the bare minimum of resistance.

Also, another important aspect of war crime is the inextricable link with the orders passed down from the leader. Stalin endorsed it and it funnelled down to the soldiers, NOT hitmen, to kill Polish inteligentsia.

History / WAS KATYŃ GENOCIDE? Polish officers were killed [237]

M-G, I didn't say otherwise. I've already classed it as a war crime and it didn't have the character of genocide. I was making the point that it isn't numbers that decide the matter. Numbers are relative in this case anyway.

History / WAS KATYŃ GENOCIDE? Polish officers were killed [237]

Genocide has a certain nature to it. I should know, I did so many cases on it in International Criminal Law. It doesn't strictly depend on the number but the character of the crime.

Law / CHINESE TO BUILD POLISH ROADS.... [92]

Well, I fear they may be winning as undercutting is the name of the game amongst some business types. Not everyone plays ball as you know.

Law / CHINESE TO BUILD POLISH ROADS.... [92]

But surely the Russians can't beat you in your own backyard!? As you said, you may be in a spot of bother if companies are satisfied with those standards (quality, getting what you pay for etc) but surely they know that quality guarantees are worthwhile and paying a bit more makes sense? Still, it is the crisis after all ;) ;)

Law / CHINESE TO BUILD POLISH ROADS.... [92]

I've discussed this with many Americans and they all agree that the feelgood factor needs to return. Yes, we are all at the mercy of the big and powerful who throw good money after bad but, at the same time, our awareness of how the economy works and impacts on our lives so directly is raised. We should see it as a learning step. America needs to look inside and see just how exactly the concept of 'the self-made man/woman' came about.

Anyway, this is a digression again and I'm heading for a deserved warning from the Mods. How come you haven't had dealings with the Chinese? Conscious decision or it just happened that way? It will be funny seeing Chinamen building roads here. Little men controlling such big drills etc etc :)

Law / CHINESE TO BUILD POLISH ROADS.... [92]

Through this controlled and steered recession, you mean? To tie this in with Poland, former President Kwaśniewski recently had talks with high-level officials and found that the strings are being pulled and there are those who can take us out of recession whenever they want. I don't completely believe that as you need to reactivate business concerns across-the-board by stimulus packages and also the restoration of confidence (key in a country like America). Still, Bernarki has a lot to answer for.

Personally, I welcome more foreign contractors, albeit on a limited scale. Poland was the beneficiary of much inward investment and its profile was raised by this injection of foreign capital.

Law / CHINESE TO BUILD POLISH ROADS.... [92]

I just hope that people don't lose their interpersonal skills and lose sight of what it means to work in a team. Yes, times are tough but it's better to come through tough times together. After all, it is the people that do the vast majority of the work and not the government. There was a classic Bushism on this somewhere (on tough times). May national spirit long be with us and none of this divisive nonsense by globalists (in the name of harmony would you believe, pff...). No dispersion!

As for the Chinese, well, they may surprise us by showing some know-how in an area where they aren't renowned for their expertise. We just have to wait and see.

Law / CHINESE TO BUILD POLISH ROADS.... [92]

Well, the US way of doing things has clearly rubbed off on them. I can assure you that it is the prevailing mentality amongst that kind of worker here. I have lived here for just over 5 years.

Yeah, invariably that's the case. You just need to use your nose and sniff around :)

Law / CHINESE TO BUILD POLISH ROADS.... [92]

Well, that's hit or miss. Theoretically, the need to ply your trade so you can keep putting food on the table should be reason enough in itself. However, if you know the mentality here, they will likely be cursing the Chinese and refusing to accept that they were in any way part of the decision to look elsewhere.

Law / CHINESE TO BUILD POLISH ROADS.... [92]

It's sth of a miracle when a small country with 125,000,000 people can create so many jobs and not rely on outsourcing or can fully implement JIT/kanban technology on their own.

It did strike me as surprising that the job of road building was given to the Chinese. Maybe it was just the idea that anybody would be better than the locals who have been stalling and stuffing up for years.

Law / CHINESE TO BUILD POLISH ROADS.... [92]

We have to accept that a worker is often just a means to an end. Japan has maintained its concept as a worker being a huge and honoured asset to a company but this concept has dwindled elsewhere.

Also, the decision may not have been made out of cost concerns (though it probably was). Poland has been forging different ties with China for quite some time, there are threads about it elsewhere on this site. That's no bad thing!

Law / CHINESE TO BUILD POLISH ROADS.... [92]

Still, Poles (and others here) pay taxes to ensure that public services are carried out. It isn't specified who performs those services. Also, Poles will have to accept the cheaper labour idea when it finally comes round. They have accepted jobs under the minimum wage in the UK and have indirectly tampered with the system in so doing (though not entirely their fault of course). It's hardly unifying, it's more an extension of Thatcher's compulsory competitive tendering notion. It's business! Reliance need not be the norm if you have a plan B.

Law / CHINESE TO BUILD POLISH ROADS.... [92]

RN is right here. They need to legitimise the need for intervention over a situation which is spiralling out of control. So many different natives in so many different countries is what they are striving towards.

They open up avenues in different ways, largely through legal apparatus.

Law / CHINESE TO BUILD POLISH ROADS.... [92]

Good point, PennBoy. This is the way the world is going, what Thatcher would have wanted. Compulsory competitive tendering was actually introduced to the NHS and it has spread its wings well beyond that. I'm happy when sb calls for a national body to do it but foreign companies with better profiles/credentials pop up and are in such a position that they can engage in price wars. The top dogs can introduce all kinds of pricing strategies to win. It's not such a bad thing in this specific case as Poles have been calling for improvements in road standards for a long time and progress has been really slow.

Law / CHINESE TO BUILD POLISH ROADS.... [92]

By that time, they are all well into their vodka and warming foods, chatting about how good a job they did on the roads while the poor sods are playing dodge the pothole. It was a pothole here that almost killed me on my bike. A bystander said I was lucky to be alive. I didn't have my helmet and my last recollection was thinking 'oh sh*t, I've had it, I'm a gonner'. I remember looking at my bike in disbelief when I got out of hospital. Mangled was an understatement. Still, it was repairable.

I have NO recollection of being put in an ambulance. Rumour had it that I was straight out. Thankfully, nobody stole my wallet, LOL. I apparently asked my then girlfriend about 50 times if I still had my keys and wallet. Explains my current brain damage, LOL (or Scottishness)

Law / CHINESE TO BUILD POLISH ROADS.... [92]

Good point! They recently redid a road connecting Gliwice to Zabrze and you still descend into potholes. I bet they flipped a coin with the condition, 'tails I don't fill it and heads you don't fill it'. Bloody jackas*es!

Law / CHINESE TO BUILD POLISH ROADS.... [92]

As long as they don't build the accompanying roadsigns, all will be well ;) ;) The Poles will drive into the nearest bush when they see those signs.

I wonder if they have the 1 man working, 5 men standing but all getting 2000PLN idea, LOL

Prolly not, they haven't been fully introduced to vodka.

News / The chances for Warsaw to become capital of eventual Slavic confederation? [183]

So Crow, I get the impression that you still carry the scars from the Yugoslav War and I don't blame you. Did you have any friends in Bosnia at that time? Do you think Poland really commands enough respect to be seen as a leader of a federation?

News / The chances for Warsaw to become capital of eventual Slavic confederation? [183]

More appropriate?? Upon what do you base that conclusion?? Russians would NOT understand if Warsaw was the centre of a potent force.

As for NATO, you are right. The missile shield was just a betrayal but Kaczyński was very direct with Obama in setting out what Poland wants. Poles are beginning to see that NATO is an organisation for the political elite and loves business. 10 years ago, under Kwaśniewski, they didn't. I can ask my students for you about the alleged guarantee of security. I think they doubt the sincerity of NATO.

News / The chances for Warsaw to become capital of eventual Slavic confederation? [183]

Yes Crowie, and how about answering my question? You ducked it before too. Moscow or Warsaw, what would be your preference and why?

News / The chances for Warsaw to become capital of eventual Slavic confederation? [183]

Would you vote for Warsaw ahead of Moscow, Crow? What factors would influence your decision? Remember, Poland is in NATO and Russia, of course, isn't.

News / The chances for Warsaw to become capital of eventual Slavic confederation? [183]

And what do you make of the recent move by the Slovenes to lift the blockade on the Croats? How would Serbia be affected if Croatia joined?

M-G, Crow is right about the Mujas and how they were assembled from various Arabic nations. The one-world government movement notion cannot be met with resistance from 'stubborn' (aka heroic) nations like Serbia.

Viva la resistance!

News / The chances for Warsaw to become capital of eventual Slavic confederation? [183]

And what if Warsaw started to become overly friendly with Croatia? Do you really think the Sejm has the same vision as Belgrade? What would be they key priorities of such a confederation? How would you stand up to Germany, the US and the UK?

News / The chances for Warsaw to become capital of eventual Slavic confederation? [183]

Crow, what's so precious about Slavs? Why not have normal partnerships? If Poles argue with decisions from Warsaw, how do you imagine Belgrade to react? Or has Belgrade been weakened by the loss of Milosevic? Tadic doesn't get the press that Milosevic did ;) ;) ;)