Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]

Fun fact about the word "coach":

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_words_of_Hungarian_origin


Yes, the English word "manager" can be translated as "zarządca, kierownik". Nevertheless, the Polish word "menedżer" means something different than either of those other Polish words. The meaning of the loanword =/= original English meaning.


You do realise how difficult it would be to use "megabyte" in ordinary Polish texts? The spelling had to be adjusted for everyday use. Or do you think we should write "centimetre" instead of "centymetr"?


I use Google a LOT in my work, and believe you me:

1) you can pretty much google anything and find it
2) 289 finds on Google is a pathetically small number.

Everyone I know use "usuwać" and "cofać" for delete, cancel.


I would love to learn more about this "plain Polish" of yours ;-p
Linguistic Purism, anyone?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_purism

Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]


I would have thought coach = trener, but see:

karieramanagera.pl/edukacja_i_rozwoj/coaching/trener_nie_rowna_sie_coach

"Trening" is definitely not the same as "ćwiczenie."

Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]


The problem here is that "developer" is not "budowlaniec"; "menedżer" is not "zarządca" or "kierownik". Each of these words has a separate meaning.


Aren't you taking things a mite too personally here? IMHO those computer-related words which could receive Polish names - already have. People have stopped saying e.g. "deletować" or "kancelować" ages ago. I can't imagine Polish equivalents of words like "megabyte" though - it's like insisting to have Polish words for "kilometre" or "litre".

Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]

So basically you go in the direction that is so deplored by the person who opened this thread, amirite? ;-)

Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]


So what terminology do you use where you are now?

Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]


Calm down or you'll give yourself a heart attack ;-)


Too late to laugh now. Ofsajd has been renamed "spalony" a heck of a long time ago.

Language / Polish Poetry: Should one only translate into one's own native tongue? [39]


God forbid, no! Why would I? I just wanted to point out that there are a lot of cases in which the "translation into native language only" theory remains just that - theory. Unless we can clearly define what it means to be a native speaker, what a mother tongue is, and what is that elusive "feeling for language" that is required of a good translator - we remain unable to set down such strict rules for what is a very intuitive, largely subconscious, and often misunderstood process: the translation of poetry. It is obvious that every translation is both a sacrifice and an invention of sorts. Whether the end product is "good" IMHO depends much more on the talent and sensitivity of the translator(s) than on their translating into or out of what is called their mother tongue(s).

Language / Polish Poetry: Should one only translate into one's own native tongue? [39]


You don't even have to take my word for it, as I do not need to prove anything to anyone ;-)
I just used myself as an example of someone who has more languages than one and their division into "native / target / source / fluent / whatever" is just not obvious enough to start building clearly defined theories around. It's easy if you start with one language and then study another at school, it's entirely different if you are exposed to two or more languages pretty much at the same time in your early childhood. E.g. I learnt to read in English, Czech, and Polish at practically the same age.

Language / Polish Poetry: Should one only translate into one's own native tongue? [39]


Exactly. That's why I try not to have too many wonderful theories about translation, language, or literature. ;-)


Exactly. That's why I try not to have too many wonderful theories about translation, language, or literature. ;-)


Yeah, but which IS their mother tongue and why should we assume that mother tongue = absolute fluency? As I said above, what I perceive as my mother tongue (Czech) is the "weakest" of my three languages, because though I have full passive command of it, I might struggle to produce certain types of utterances myself. I have received no formal schooling in Czech and have never lived in CR for longer than several months at a time. I have, on the other hand, received several years of English-language education, studied English at university, worked with English all my professional life, and have been now living in the UK for over 5 years nonstop. Frankly, there are moments when I feel much more fluent in English than in Czech!

Language / Polish Poetry: Should one only translate into one's own native tongue? [39]

benjamins.com/cgi-bin/t_bookview.cgi?bookid=BTL%2062

Have a look at the book preview thingy. Seems like a really interesting read.

Language / Polish Poetry: Should one only translate into one's own native tongue? [39]


Why exactly? Assuming the translation may seem "unusual" if judged by English standards, but contains no actual stylistic, lexical or other errors? To me, literary translation should convey the spirit of the original, not try to mould the original according to the expectations of the target readers' tradition.


Co dwie głowy, to nie jedna ;-)

Language / Polish Poetry: Should one only translate into one's own native tongue? [39]


But if I'm Polish and translating a Polish poem into English, then I should be mainly concerned with the Polish side of things - let's say I use an unusual style or rhythm, break with the English poetic tradition if need be, and maybe introduce a little "Polish soul" into the finished English text. Is that wrong? (This is a general question, I don't translate poetry for a living).

On the other hand, if an English poet translates a Polish work into English, they might not fully grasp the "secondary and tertiary connotations" of the original, and so produce a flawed translation. Is that not a major concern as well?

This is probably a dilemma that cannot be truly resolved unless two or more translators work together.

Language / Polish Poetry: Should one only translate into one's own native tongue? [39]


Well, my earliest schooling was in English (6-10 years of age). Does it make me an English native speaker? Is English my mother tongue? No, Czech is my mother tongue and this is the language I would probably use to cry for help if in mortal danger - because my mother spoke Czech to me. I have never spent a single day in a Czech school, though.

Nevertheless, I feel very comfortable translating into English, and if faced with a choice I would much rather go Czech to English than English to Czech. Go figure.

Anyway, it's definitely not as black and white as you would have it be.

Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]

No no - szlafmyca is the pinnacle.

Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]


Carefully re-read Julian Tuwim's story as quoted by Strzyga above, and then tell me where exactly in it you see the classy, scholarly, and scientific application of German loanwords.


Where do you get these outlandish ideas from?

Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]

Amen to that.

Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]


OK, you asked for it:

drink - napój wódczany ("alkohol" is a borrowing!)
pub - gospoda brytyjsko-irlandzka
film prno - taśma obrazkowa nieprzyzwoita
sex shop - sklep płciowo-zabawowy
laptop - liczydło nakolanowe
notebook - liczydło przenośne małe

...shall I continue?

;-p

Language / It's just semantics! - in Polish or otherwise [15]


Meanings shift with time. In the past, "awanturnik" meant adventurer, not someone who picks quarrels with everybody ;-)

Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]


AFAIK there are lots of German borrowings (and probably French as well, not speaking of Latin and Greek) in Russian. The alphabet and pronunciation do a good job of "hiding" them from the eyes and ears of foreigners, though ;-)


Think of all the words you know and probably use as a member of the American melting-pot - when you buy Chinese / Japanese / Mexican / Italian food, for example. Start with that and then dig deeper. I bet many of your "typical American" words are actually borrowings from all over the world, but because you have grown up with them, and they are deeply familiar to you, you don't ever think twice about it.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Lists_of_English_words_of_foreign_origin

Just to introduce some balance into the subject. Borrowing words is nothing to be ashamed of - as I said, everyone's doing it! :-)

Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]


It will take what it finds useful and throw the rest away - as usual. All languages are like that - not just Polish and not just today ;-)

Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]

The Polish for car wash is myjnia. Nevertheless, the garage owner might have wanted to attract foreigners to his establishment, hence the English ;-)

Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]

One that springs to mind immediately is "five o'clock" (variously spelled and pronounced) as a type of afternoon party, there's also lipstick (lipsztyk etc) for today's "szminka" (which BTW is another borrowing, this time from German), girlaski for chorus girls or starlets, auto or automobil for today's "samochód", aeroplan for today's "samolot", bicykl instead of "rower" etc. etc. Read any pre-war memoirs or newspapers and you will see for yourself.

Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]

No doubt about that :-)
But there have been other trendy borrowings in Polish in the past, pre-WW2 and even earlier, which have gone to their lexical graves. So in a way, I am speaking from (collective, linguistic) experience. ;-)

Life / Reasons for moving to Poland [291]


Well, I know a bunch of Poles who don't share this "dream" of yours...

Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]

They aren't really being incorporated - most of them are just being used (as in exploited) for the hell of it. Once the novelty wears off, they will be replaced with something even more outrageous or amusing ;-)

Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]

Ubrany w fartuch biurokrata zasiadł za biurkiem w swoim ratuszu. Z dachu nie kapie, solidny parkiet, więc melancholia go nie trapi. Zakąsza pomarańczą, popija egzotyczne wina. Ot - typowy dzień specjalisty do spraw zapożyczeń leksykalnych. ;-)

To all those concerned by the alarming rate in which Polish incorporates new words - the above is perfectly good Polish, isn't it? Well, can you find all the borrowings from other languages I stuck in there?

UK, Ireland / John Drennan: "Poles in fear of starved Irish influx" [15]

This is exactly why I read the DM every single day! It's good clean fun :-)

UK, Ireland / John Drennan: "Poles in fear of starved Irish influx" [15]


Shall I remind you that the only culprit ever caught red-handed, with a slaughtered swan on his person, turned out to be a rather different nationality than Polish (or European for that matter). The man was a bit the worse for drink and admitted he wanted to sample the swan in question. This was reported on by the Daily Mail itself.

News / Poland gets a little bigger:) [82]


Hey! I'm half Czech and I resent your racist / nationalist remarks ;-p

Travel / Pics of Warsaw by the Guardian's David Levene [107]


Where did I ever say I wanted to see ANY extremes? All the while I've been clamouring for a balanced view. I don't have an idealised opinion of Warsaw at all. In a former lifetime I even used to hate the city.

I'm just curious why Levene shows us wide-angled shots of Praga and Ursynów while carefully cropping most of his central Warsaw and Old Town pictures...


Easier said than done. I haven't lived in Warsaw for a long time... I just pass through. I kinda actually like the place now though ;-)