History / Give back Lwow to Poland and Kaliningrad to Germany - is it possible? [198]


Yeah i did, last of them died out 600~ years ago.


Woah there buddy, Wrocław was ruled by Poland only untill 1241 when the Mongol invasion forced Poles to flee and the city got burnt to the ground, afterwards it was repopulated by Germans, by 17th century it was interchangably austrian and prussian.


If you're so brave why dont you go to Lwów and explain to Ukrainians how they should work for us, i promise to notify your mother you died a heroic death while running and screaming like a little girl :)))))


By all means if there's a way tell me.


We dont have people to settle Lwów, we dont have money to put it back to shape, those two problems (ignoring the completely unrealistic scenario that it is) are pretty much insurmountable.


Lovely, ever occurred to you that Germans wont care? Neither will Europe and even if they dont get Wrocław back we'll be wide open to a variety of claims, including Belarus, Lithuanian, Czech republic, we'll make an enemy of Ukraine and while Ukraine is and will be too weak to threaten Poland in a predictable future it will become a russian proxy in a way that seriously f*cks up Polands security?

You're unrealistic and unreasonable.


True true and what are a few minor revolutions and a few civil wars here and there.


Sh*t happens, look at where the Roman Empire is today, yeah nowhere but we're still around and kicking.

News / US shouldn't interfere in Polish election (Polish-American Advocacy Initiative) [60]


They rent buildings for the cheapest possible price to the Polish schools due to being in the city council, but then again NY council this time its Greenfield (Zielonka) and Koslowits (Kozłowicka), Greenfield is my distant aunts second uncle so we're not directly related but family is family:)

Poles have been in NY city council continously for the past 100 years y'know while Dutch were busy beating up Jews and selling soap in the docks market :)))))


Political, social, historical, you get Polish schools, bars, historic and literature associations, re-enactment groups, political factions etc.

Its all dedicated to Poles preserving their heritage and having some political leverage, for example no mayor of New York or Chicago would ever dream of f*cking with the polish minority since its a political suicide.

News / US shouldn't interfere in Polish election (Polish-American Advocacy Initiative) [60]


Just trying to bait you, kudos for not swallowing the hook:)


Last i checked there's no such thing as an american nation, a conglomerate of people if anything.

History / Give back Lwow to Poland and Kaliningrad to Germany - is it possible? [198]


But it does, newsflash for you Germans want stuff back, they're not willing to go to war or take it back via any sort of malevolent action, they dont have the population to do it either but they still want Wrocław back, if Poland re-aquires Lwów the question of Wrocław will rise the moment some Steinbach monkey comes to prominence in Germany.


See above, it is logical. Lwów was Polish, Wrocław was German, the situation is analogous.


Lets assume we get Lwów back what then? Do you kick the Ukrainians out? If not then how do you integrate them into Poland, if yes then where will Poland get engineers, doctors, teachers, policemen, firemen and all these people essential to running a large city to settle in Lwów? We have a shortage of these people already.

Rights or no rights, we've got a good peace in Europe and a good peace in Poland, there's no point in destroying it, not even for Lwów.

News / US shouldn't interfere in Polish election (Polish-American Advocacy Initiative) [60]


For me it is but then again i'm a patriot but it has its faults, none of them is being "tribal" though.


See? Thats why i claim Americans are morons, if you werent a little uneducated chimp who by some quirk of evolution aquired the power of coherent english you'd know that for 700 years out of 1000 years of its existence Poland was a major power in Europe and everyone who had a problem with it got their arse kicked.

The only time when Polands existence depended on foreign powers was post WW2 when all of Eastern and central Europe depended on the whims of Uncle Joe.


Do you mean Pułaski who thought you hillbillies how to use cavalry, Kościuszko who thought you hillbillies how to use combat engineers and built West Point?

Wait you must mean the Poles who saved Europe at Vienna from the Turks or Polish commanders who saved Western Europe from the Soviets in 1920?

Y'know in our 1000 years of history we've had so many outstanding military minds i can't decide who did you have in mind, unlike US which never had a single great generals and its merely decent commanders can be counted on both hands :))))))


Yes thriving ethnic 60 milion Poles while how many ethnic Americans are there? Oh right 0 :))))


They're just two iconic guys out of a lot more, i'm just using them since even you must've heard something.

We've organised your cavalry, your artillery, your fortifications, we thought you european drills and engineering even West Point was built by a Pole so calling people who contributed so heavily to the foundation of the United States, tribals makes America what?

History / Give back Lwow to Poland and Kaliningrad to Germany - is it possible? [198]


Hot water that is, Lwów was using old Polish and Habsburg pipe system that saw little renovation or maintnance after Poland fell in 1939, years ago the plumbing went down and it took a lot of effort and money to bring running hot water to some sections of Lwów, they solved it in 2008.

Also David while Ukrainians are poor they're not cavemen, for all their faults they're our neighbours i'm not pleased when Westerners sh*t on Poland because they've got more moola, lets not do it to others eh?


They already did that, Tsardom changed the name to Communism and that was it.

History / Give back Lwow to Poland and Kaliningrad to Germany - is it possible? [198]


Delphia is correct, they basically did their best to renovate stuff since Lwów apart from the centre ranges from a mild mess to a complete sh*thole, but they didnt have the money to finish it, same with loads of buildings and other streets, the plans were ambitious so they started loads of projects without regard to the money and now they're f*cked.

Things are going forwards though, citizens get running water in Lwów downtown 24/7 since 2008.


You went a little overboard calling Poland unstable and very overboard calling Russia stable.


Extremely hard, out of 5 major national uprisings only two Greater Poland ones were succesfull in Poland and we were a lot more organised and efficient then Russians or even Germans, we had the best army in Europe in one of them and they still failed.

Also against whom would Russians rebel?


The fact is Lwów survived intact and Ukrainians messed it up, Russians moonscaped Breslau and when it became Wrocław we rebuilt it, though not to its former glory, the job we did was pretty decent.

People like you want to exchange a city that Ukraine has messed up for 50 years for a city we've rebuilt practically from scratch and developed into one of Polands major metropolis.

History / Give back Lwow to Poland and Kaliningrad to Germany - is it possible? [198]


Yes they do but today Lwów is a dilapidated underdeveloped and ruined city and Kaliningrad is a third world AIDS infested hellhole.

youtube.com/watch?v=yTbp5Pbk-L8

A street in the centre of Lwów.

History / Give back Lwow to Poland and Kaliningrad to Germany - is it possible? [198]


No, both Lwów and Kaliningrad are poor regions that would require extensive investment that neither country can afford, also Kaliningrad is far from Germany and both Poland and Germany dont have the population to effectively settle these regions.

The problem associated with these two regions is that in an unlikely even that they come aquirable they come together with Ukrainians and poverty or Russians and poverty, neither is desirable.

News / US shouldn't interfere in Polish election (Polish-American Advocacy Initiative) [60]


The point of the point is that they dont live in Poland, they're anti-communist, anti-Russian and rabidly patriotic, while patriotism is commendable all of this is coupled with total ignorance as to whats happening in Poland so they always support whoever they see as the current anti-Russian hawk.


Thats actually not true, by and large Polish language is alive and kicking, some parts of my family moved to US from UK post WW2 but there's one branch thats living in NY since the first partition, thats almost 150 years and all of them speak fluent Polish.

Polish-Americans will gain the american accent to them since american engrish (not English) is what they use but in general Poles in US stick together, are medium to well off and keep the spark alive.

I'm neck deep into Polonia organisations in US, the Poles who'd drop their roots are a very small margin, most of them become lot more Polish then Poles here, i know of a grand total of three cases where Polish girls would marry a guy only if he agreed that a kid have a Polish name and learn the language, one case where a Polish man divorced an Asian-American because she was teaching their kid Catholicism is bad.

They're politically stupid but then again USA is generally a moronic country so Polonia aquired this trait, after all its their home, by and large Polonia everywhere except UK is a testament to the positive traits of our people.


60 milion.


You're still an idiot though, Poland had universities when Americans were living in log cabins and wiping with hands, your hillbilly nation is likely to not even exist if our commanders such as Pułaski and Kościuszko didnt teach your village militias how to wage a regular war so calling Poland "tribals" is a bit out of place, no?

News / US shouldn't interfere in Polish election (Polish-American Advocacy Initiative) [60]


Some cretin removed my post, i know a lot of Polonia Fuzzy, 2/3rds of my family a grand total of 21 people and assorted polish spouses and kids that i can't keep track of are from Polonia and both Torq and Delphia are 100% correct, Polonia is from another planet, utterly clueless as to what makes Poland tick.

News / US shouldn't interfere in Polish election (Polish-American Advocacy Initiative) [60]


I know a lot about Polonia since 21 members of my family live there and my uncle is the president of the second largest polonia association in NY and 8th largest such association in USA and they know nothing about life in Poland.

Polonia in USA has this idealised view of how stuff should be while not living here and not experiencing our ups and downs.

You should stop posting out of your arse, at least you're not insulting our flag like you used to mierna podróbko Polaka.

History / Wealth of the Polish nobility [29]


"Crown" was the blanket term used to describe Poland and its direct dependencies, it stretched as far as Lwów but beyond that it was frontier land analogous to american Wild West, its to this place that the russian serfs fled, either to Crimea or to the Sich.

History / Wealth of the Polish nobility [29]


These were Polish properties but not Crown proper.

History / Wealth of the Polish nobility [29]


Except that at the time you mention (dark ages) Byzantium was the only template for commerce, in reinessance period there was no such template so we have to count against purchase power of different currencies.

History / 1587-1588 Poland's War with Austria [22]


Poland was never destined to stay backwards but in the end the Constitution while an enlightened act of patriotism where the priveliged part of the nation sacrificed their priveliges for the freedoms of other was too late.


Which from their point of view was a logical, if malevolent move they had everything to gain from weak Poland or no Poland at all, especially Prussians.

History / Wealth of the Polish nobility [29]


Its easier then to actually measure it in hard money, cows were across all Europe the most expensive farm animal apart from the horse.


To Ukraine yes, to Poland per se not so much.


At the time everywhere money was measured via its purchase capacity against products that held a similar price Europe wide such as cows, horses for example varied wildly, a horse in Poland cost only 30% of its price in Germany while cow prices were pretty stable.

History / Wealth of the Polish nobility [29]


Sarcasm? There's plenty of lies propagated during communism small and big, from peasant infantry fighting for Poland at Grunwald to polish Commonwealth being a corrupt state.

The "poor opressed peasant" myth was produced purely as a communist construct to create the impression that reinessaince Poland was, despite its incredible advancement built on the backs of slaving working class.


They did not, Germans however did, russian serfs were rooted to the spot through a variety of tactics by their owners.

History / Wealth of the Polish nobility [29]


Communist myth Pawian, peasants in Poland were never hungry and their ordeal started only in XVII century, they were still much better off then their Western counterparts.

History / Wealth of the Polish nobility [29]

Most nobles in Poland were wealthy, if they didnt have a village of their own they had a particularly large farm, in 1586 an average Polish nobles income was 186zł with food and most of the animals provided for free since he had been breeding them for generations, after clothes luxury and livelihood this left him usually with around 90zł for investments.

A good young healthy cow in XVI century Poland cost 1zł so an average noble could buy 80-90 cows, at the same time a German noble of the same class could buy only 40, a British noble only 18, a Scottish noble only 10.

On average the Polish nobility was filthy rich, if you lived next to a river or a major trade route or a city the income doubled, sometimes tripled.

There's quite a few marriage agreements from XV and XVI century Lesser Poland between Poles and Germans which illustrate the dowry of both families, the German side' dowry was typically much much smaller.

Untill XVII century when the "Folwark" system was firmly in place Poland was effing rich and life was good.

News / Russia, Poland ready agreement on visa-free travel [71]


No its not, Królewiec is like Africa, say hello to 100+ thousand illegal workers and kiss our growing economy goodbye.


Yyyeah the problem is that Królewiec region is the cesspool of Russia, its THE poorest region of an already poor country, these people are just going to all pour over here, also the place has the highest amount of HIV infected people in Europe matched only by some African states.


Then they'll also take the jobs we will do and we'll be in a sh*tter we put you guys together with a small army of Pakis, Asians and n*ggers.


No more then our stuff, oddly enough fuel is one of the things they do not cheat on.

History / 1587-1588 Poland's War with Austria [22]

Which is still the golden period of Poland with strong (albeit elected) kings, thriving economy etc, to illustrate how effectively Polands magnates served her in that period, by year 1587 Poland had not lost a single war for 247 years and lost only a single battle (battle of Varna).

At the time there were: 5 wars against Teutonic Order, 2 wars against Swedish, a war against Muscovites and a war against Turkey and 27 smaller conflicts, not a single one lost and many of them fought by Polands magnates, while later on the noble democracy did fail for over a century it worked just peachy.

It was a progressive and enlightened system which had one weakness, it relied on the willingness to serve ones country entirely, there was little duty by law so when Polish society transformed from the most advanced to one of the most backwards in Europe the system collapsed completely.

Love / What do Polish Guys Like Women to Wear? [64]


Nothing in case of my Maja :)


They look like Soviet era combat boots.

History / 1587-1588 Poland's War with Austria [22]


Not in XIV-XV century, at this time patriotism and obedience were still strong enough that the vast majority of magnates served the country.


Zamoyski wasnt just any nobleman, he was the most powerfull noble of the most powerfull country in Europe at the time, the guy treated with kings as equals since the amount of leverage he held in internal politics was enormous.

News / Russia, Poland ready agreement on visa-free travel [71]


Yeah but the Russians are going to stay and while its OK to do with to Brits its not OK doing it to Poland:P

News / Russia, Poland ready agreement on visa-free travel [71]


We're going to get flooded by Russians...

News / Minsk threatens to take gas destined for Poland and EU [16]

Ya but we aint getting rid of them anytime soon, when you live in a gutter you learn to enjoy the smell of dung...

News / Minsk threatens to take gas destined for Poland and EU [16]


No Jola they dont.


In Ukraine it was Ukrainian mafia feuding with Russian mafia with Russia muscling Ukraine into the line, in Belarus its a bit simpler, Belarus owes Russia money and pulls claims out of its arse to avoid paying.

News / Who are you voting for in the 2010 Poland's presidential elections and why? [82]


Not everywhere, Poland is in the heart of Europe, we dont get to sit out any match Europe decides to play, we can be either a player or the playing field but we never get to just watch from the stalls.

Every country has its amount of political b*tching but objectively most countries get actuall elites, Poland lost its elites in WW2 and communism afterwards, rebuilding them is a b*tch since we need them now not 20 years in the future.


Americans get away with that, they're a rather stupid lot when compared to Poles, also they're not smack in the middle of a power struggle between larger neighbours.

News / Who are you voting for in the 2010 Poland's presidential elections and why? [82]


Not at all, i'm into politics a bit deeper than magazines but even so you can interpret various economic moves to see the course it all goes.

Germany wants a closer association with Poland for a variety of reasons that can be summed up with Germany being old and Poland young, Poland is a German investment to revitalise your economy and gain various bonuses but before all that happens your politics have to make sure who's on top.


You're understimating your politics, Poland does not have a political elite rather then people who're more or less moronic about the whole thing, Germany has a lot of skilled, ambitious and more importantly patient politics.


No its not, not with our political elite and deep political divide among the nation, just read the thread, Poles insulting each other over a political party they vote on rather then realise we're all Poles and on the same boat, Poland is everything but safe.