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Posts by Magdalena  

Joined: 15 Aug 2007 / Female ♀ 		Last Post: 27 Jan 2015
Threads: Total: 3 / In This Archive: 3
Posts: Total: 1827 / In This Archive: 1094 		From: North Sea coast, UK
Speaks Polish?: Yes
Interests: Reading, writing, listening, talking

Displayed posts: 1097 / page 21 of 37
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Magdalena   
18 May 2011
History / Info on Poland in 1988 - researching a short film [21]

Its funny how there is so little literature on what must have been an amazing time in Poland.

It was an amazing time. Check out the Riviera-Remont Club in Warsaw (probably defunct now, I wouldn't know) for other interesting concerts and music events. I remember a Dutch (?) punk band called The Ex playing at Remont, somewhere around the same time. They were great! :-)

There was a lot of Polish bands fooling around in the eighties, some relatively unknown, others very popular, Armia, Siekiera, Moskwa, Dezerter, Brygada Kryzys spring to mind... But there were lots more, and we had lots of fun :-)

Also, many foreign bands would play in Poland, like Cabaret Voltaire, New Model Army, Fugazi... (they were all still rather unknown at the time, maybe that's why it was so easy to invite them to Poland).

Contrary to what many think about commie Poland, young people then were very knowledgeable about the international music scene, knew all the latest trends, and as to the music they listened to, the ideologies they embraced, and the clothes they wore...! Today's youth is sooooo tame in comparison! ;-)
Magdalena   
18 May 2011
News / Dumbing-down in Polish schools and the Matura [185]

You could give me access to books, calculators, whatever. I wouldn't be able to do anything. I only passed my matura examination because for several years the maths exam was not compulsory ;-)

The only parts of maths I ever understood were trigonometry and theory of probability (all forgotten by now anyway). Those were the days...
Magdalena   
17 May 2011
Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]

No average human is interested in linguistics; people just speak.

So why did you start the discussion in the first place by denying facts you are not really familiar with?

The fact that the person wants to be assured that the Earth is not flat

But you did not want to be assured that the Earth is not flat - you told me outright that the Earth WAS flat and that I couldn't challenge your perception because I lived on a different planet (if we are to extend the metaphor).
Magdalena   
17 May 2011
Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]

If we had Earth is flat argument and I behaved like the two of you, the discussion would go like:

I think saying "go educate yourself" to someone who would behave like your imaginary discussion partner would be absolutely justified. There is no convincing argument for a round Earth that would not have to go into a lot of detail, probably with illustrations (if I did not believe in photos, that is).

But that is beside the point, because what you did to our discussion was more along the lines of:

"Blood contains red and white blood cells".
"No, it does not. I have often bled and the colour is red. I have never seen any white in blood. How can you deny my actual experience?"

<Link to a wiki article about blood>
"But that is just theory. You cannot tell me what MY blood looks like. It's red, I tell you."
"You cannot influence the contents of your blood. You DO have white blood cells, you just don't know it".
<More links>
<Links remain unread>
"You are so high and mighty about your white blood cells and your stupid hematology. I know what I see and that's what matters. My blood is all red"

<FACEPALM>

;-p
Magdalena   
17 May 2011
Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]

Diacritical marks are there for a reason and should not be removed. Your question is rather pointless, as it's absolutely obvious that removal of diacritics would lead to confusion (in any language that uses them).

I am not worried about the future of ogonki. After some years of neglect during the early expansion of computer technology, they are now back on track and going from strength to strength :-)
Magdalena   
17 May 2011
Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]

You gave no reason why the links are relevant to the discussion. Why should I click them?

I did give a reason. I said that we had to start at the very beginning (as it became obvious you and Antek do not have, or pretend to not have, the relevant knowledge). And I said that reading those links would give you something to think about. I apologise for not summarising them in my own words for your reading pleasure. Also please bear in mind that I provided those links only after a prolonged and fruitless "discussion" in which Antek kept insisting that since I don't live in Poland, I cannot speak about Polish phonological rules. The Wiki entries were not mine and I hoped they might be taken more seriously than I was.
Magdalena   
17 May 2011
Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]

When I see 5 links listed instead of a brief explanation followed by links for references, I won't click any of them.

As I said - there is no brief explanation really when you have to start from the very beginning. Additionally, when I enter a discussion on a topic that's new to me, I tend to at least check what Wiki has to say before adding anything. Also, not clicking links that had been provided to you is like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

As I said before, the discussion is pointless.

Yes, it is pointless, because you do not read what your opponents have written and are not interested in facts. You are only interested in listening to the sound of your own voice.
Magdalena   
17 May 2011
Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]

Imagine if we were discussing the nature of light

Sorry, but you lost me right there, because I would never ever discuss the nature of light with anybody, because (as I said) I am totally hopeless in the physics department.

But if the subject did come up, and I were involved, I would have a look at your links, and if I were interested in the subject of the conversation, and really wanted to learn something about light (which, unfortunately, I quite candidly confess I do not), I would read them and try to understand at least something.

but swarming with links without a proper commentary is exactly that.

Imagine I said something truly preposterous about light, and it is blindingly obvious that I know nothing about the subject. What sort of proper commentary would you try to provide? You would first try to give me a general overview of the matter (by providing links, I assume). I can't begin to imagine what sort of commentary you would have to provide to me to even get me started. You could type all night and I would still be clueless. The burden on educating myself should lie with me, not you.
Magdalena   
17 May 2011
Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]

I'd sort of expect you to present an argument in a compact form that leaves no doubt, quote relevant parts from the sources you're referring to etc.

It's not very easy to present an argument in a compact form that leaves not doubt when I have to assume that you are a stranger to the terminology, methodology, and basic premises of phonology. I trust you are intelligent enough to read the info I link to and come to your own conclusions. I know nothing about physics (literally nothing) and would never try to discuss physics with you, but if you provided me with interesting links, I would at least try to read them before dismissing them.

"Go educate yourself, moron" is not an argument.

You know as well as I do that I never said that. If you think that was my intention, you are wrong.

także: wymowa: IPA: [ˈtaɡʒɛ], AS: [tagže].

That's not advice. That's description pure and simple, taken from an objective source at that.
Magdalena   
17 May 2011
Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]

Nevertheless, if a biologist describes these facts to you, you don't tend to question them.

As in to suggest "I'm an expert and I'm not to be questioned".

Please go back to that particular post and re-read it very carefully. It might help a bit.

Again, don't swarm me with links, please.

Well, am I supposed to sit down and write you a comprehensive lecture on phonology? It would be really much easier if you did some background reading on the subject and then came back to discuss it.

Someone trying to give advices how to speak present Polish rather comes to Poland and stays there for significant amount of time. NOW.

Show me ONE single instance of me or z_darius "giving advice" on how to speak Polish. Not paraphrasing, quote please.
Magdalena   
17 May 2011
Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]

It's so simple Magdalena: You lost the connection with Poland. I deeply believe so.

And I simultaneously forgot everything I ever learnt at university as well? What about the links I posted? All those guys are probably totally wrong as well, only you are right, but cannot present a single valid argument, which is probably due to the fact that you don't really understand what it is that you are opposing.
Magdalena   
17 May 2011
Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]

You're simply not authentic.

Not authentic as what? What has writing and your lovely Grandma got to do with pronunciation? What has it all got to do with "także"? This is starting to really amuse me. Please, proceed.

I'm not used to "take my word for it" arguments.

As far as I remember, I said "DON'T take my word for it".

My argument was that 'g' is used for phonetic transcription as it;s the closest sound but not quite the same,

pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fonem

That should explain what you describe as "closest sound".
Magdalena   
17 May 2011
Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]

claim to be the ultimate wisdom in your field.

No. I never did that. But unless you suffer from a speaking disorder, your pronunciation of your native language will follow a set of rules you are not even aware of, in exactly the same way you don't really "know" how your heart beats or your stomach digests food. Nevertheless, if a biologist describes these facts to you, you don't tend to question them. Why do you then question and deny the existence of phonological rules, when every time you say "wtorek" you actually say [ftorek], and every time you say "także" you actually say [taɡʒɛ]?

We are only stating how we pronounce it.

How very modest of you, indeed.
Magdalena   
17 May 2011
Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]

For example, a music expert will tell you "kobza" is special instrument played in Tatra Mountains, and the right name for bag-pipe is "dudy".

That's all very interesting, but what on earth does it have to do with the actual (as opposed to imagined) pronunciation of the word "także"? For a technical uni graduate you don't seem to have a very organised mind. You're jumping all over the place and your "arguments" completely miss the point.

Linguists are scientists with no effect on living language.

Yeah, exactly like chemists are scientists who cannot influence the laws of chemistry, and architects cannot change the law of gravity and build houses in the sky. So what?

I find it amusing when two non-Polish residents try to convince two Poles that they speak wrongly because linguistics says otherwise ;)

Oh but I am absolutely sure that you pronounce "także" in accordance with the rules of Polish phonology ;-) You just don't seem to know it.
Magdalena   
17 May 2011
Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]

Come back, live with us, breathe the same air, that would change the whole thing.

<Sigh>

I think we need to start from the very beginning. Pronunciation of words is not ruled by individuals, and where they live, or don't live.

pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fonetyka
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fonologia
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerzy_Rubach (one of my teachers at Uni, he was really the best!) ;-)
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regu%C5%82a_fonologiczna]
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mi%C4%99dzynarodowy_alfabet_fonetyczny

This should give you something to read and think about.

I have to add, scientists in other branches of science (non-linguists) are a lot more humble and I never heard anyone saying "lol you have no credentials, Polish education sucks yaddayadda" as you two here are doing.

Well, then try to tell a biologist that frogs are mammals, or a chemist that water is an acid. Let's see them humbly accept those revelations.
Magdalena   
17 May 2011
Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]

Magdalena, you do not live in Poland since 1992, either.

And pray, how do you know that, dear sir? You really are a fountain of information. I thought I knew my own biography, at least. Let me put you right - I moved out of Warsaw in 1992. Unless to you, only Warsaw is Poland. ;->

Why do you people insist you could teach the living Polish? By book?

We are both linguists by education. As you very rightly stated earlier, linguists describe the language. Well, we are trying to describe it to you, but you seem deaf and blind to the simplest facts.

I didn't ask wiktionary, I asked you.

And I am referring you to phonetic transcription, as used by linguists the world over. Don't just take my word for it. Check it for yourself.
Magdalena   
17 May 2011
Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]

PLEASE, do not teach Poles speak Polish.
I can even kneel if you like.

Please, stop making yourself sound absolutely ridiculous.
You are talking through your hat here. You haven't the foggiest about phonetics and / or phonology.

Do you pronounce the same sound in 'tygrys' and 'także'?

tygrys: pl.wiktionary.org/wiki/tygrys

także: pl.wiktionary.org/wiki/tak%C5%BCe

Check for yourself.
Magdalena   
16 May 2011
News / Dumbing-down in Polish schools and the Matura [185]

I don't expect you to know about the Bologna process and the equivalence of qualifications.

Well, I do know a lot about those. The standard industry practice is to translate literally any educational terms used instead of replacing them with the nearest foreign-language equivalent. "Matura" is a colloquial term and does not appear on any official documentation. Even "świadectwo maturalne / egzamin maturalny", though they sounds quite formal, are not actually used on certificates. The only terms officially used are "świadectwo dojrzałości"/"egzamin dojrzałości". Therefore, the translator should use the term "maturity certificate / maturity examination", and is free to add a footnote with a short description of what the term signifies within the Polish educational system. BTW "maturity certificate / maturity examination" are terms officially used in all Polish-language EU documentation on the subject.
Magdalena   
13 May 2011
Feedback / Why PolishForums? Give us your stories! [60]

I do a lot of google searching as part of my work. It was inevitable that I would come across Polish Forums sooner rather than later... ;-)