Life / Ideas for constructive Immigration methods for Poland. [30]

@Lodz_The_Boat

You should take the time to read and comprehend my posts before simply reacting to them.

So I'll try again in this simplified response:

Poland is a member of the EU. Do you understand? OK.

The EU has laws in place for its citizens to legally resettle and work anywhere within its member states. Still following or do I need to start over?

If Poland needs immigrants like you advocate there are millions of them already within the EU to draw upon. Many are even unemployed at the moment and looking for work. They are in Spain, Greece, Italy, the UK, France, Germany, Romania, etc., etc. etc.

They are young too and even highly diverse in their heritage especially in places like France and Britain. You even have older workers with a lot of education and experience already within the EU who can legally come to Poland to live and work.

But is this enough for you? Of course not. That's because you have an agenda.

Poland has valid laws on the books regarding immigration. You not liking them is your own problem. You should vote with your feet.

By the way, you can claim all day long that you are Polish and even from Poland but the more you write the more this becomes doubtful.

Life / Ideas for constructive Immigration methods for Poland. [30]


I'm not wrong at all. It's very clear what you wrote and it is no surprise that you don't like being challenged by anyone regarding it. This explains why you avoided responding to nearly all of the points I raised and asked you to answer.

Like I stated before you do not have a neutral position on this topic. You are biased for very personal reasons and you absolutely fail to understand that because of this you do not speak on behalf or in the interest of other Poles. Your generalities about your own unremarkable experiences in life and the supposed accomplishments of your ancestors mean nothing. And why should they when considering you are such an advocate for social change? You can't have it both ways.

Your position on how Poland should "move forward" along with the high regard you have for your own self-importance remind me of the communist era: totally discredited social engineering forced fed by personality cult party members who were the only ones to reap any benefits while proclaiming their programs were for the good of the whole of the society even while society was suffering because of it. Well, we all know how that ended.

Poland already has mechanisms to attract workers and students from fellow EU states. Poland needs to make this work since it is the established legal process. Poland doesn't need to throw open its borders to the rest of the world simply because you decided to marry a woman from Korea. That's your personal business and it is arrogant of you to believe it should now become the template for all other Poles to start following.

If you really are so pro-immigration like you claim then you should go spend the rest of your life in Korea with your family. You can set up an immigration assistance and settlement program over there. But you won't because doing so wouldn't fit into your agenda.

You are living in denial if you think others don't see that the "pro-humanist" label you carry is very small indeed.

Life / Ideas for constructive Immigration methods for Poland. [30]


Yes, but you still speak for yourself not the other 38 million Poles.


You assume "good" immigrants will always be that way. Not so. For instance, you don't want proof that they have enough funds to support themselves so where should the money come from if they become indebted and cannot pay their own way? Don't say Poles will need to have their taxes raised to accommodate them. Also, did you know that many homeless people used to be working middle class professionals? As far as incurable diseases being used to screen out the "bad" from the "good" are you suggesting immigrants should be deported if they contract HIV or a terminal form of cancer while residing in Poland? Some come down with these diseases and don't realize it until many months after they are infected. What is your time window?


You say immigration is natural but want it regulated by your own made-up manmade rules. Listen, I imagine being an immigrant can be a very lonely experience and that is why it comes as no surprise to see immigrants and immigrant families push for more of it. You simply want affirmation from the rest of society that your own personal lifestyle choice was correct. You have doubts and that's OK. You should just admit that you do.


The whole premise of your argument is that Poles are lacking and so there needs to be more immigrants to change the landscape. So why bother with the notion of Polonization if Poles themselves have such innate failings? If you are to be believed then Polonization can't be good for anyone.

Anyway, what's your take on Korea? Too homogenous? Facing its own demographic time bomb and therefore in desperate and immediate need of immigration from the third world? Frankly, this may be polishforms but Poland can't be the only nation on Earth to be constantly singled out on here for some genocidal social experiment while other nations and cultures are kept under a glass case.

Life / Ideas for constructive Immigration methods for Poland. [30]


This is the routine script parroted by those with a race to the bottom mentality which was forged generations ago by those who ran British sweatshops and American plantations.

Local workers often decline jobs because the wages are too low. Locals want to stay in their community and grow along with it. This can't happen on slave wages. This is why in your example you mention Ukrainians finding work in Poland but not locals or citizens from elsewhere in the EU. A low wage in Poland is still higher than many found in Ukraine or other non-EU countries. And exchange rates definitely make up for any hardships endured. Furthermore, it can't be the nature of the jobs because otherwise the Ukrainians and other foreigners would be back home doing the same line of work at comparative wages and there would be no need for them to go all the way to Poland to do it.

Therefore Polish politicians should be finding more ways to lower costs for companies in Poland (such as tax levels or regulations) while at the same time denying them easy access to cheap non-EU labor. If any businesses decide to close or leave Poland over this then it is only cutting to the chase. Wage increase demands are inevitable so Poland should not bother with companies whose only motive is short term profits. There are companies leaving or avoiding China entirely to set up shop in places like Viet Nam and the Philippines because they regard China as too expensive now. Who would have thought that just a few years ago? Ah yes but you would argue the companies had no choice but to leave since the locals didn't want to do the jobs and the Chinese have too strict of an immigration policy. Yeah, sure.

Another reality about locals not wanting to do the jobs is that many times they are locked out from doing them. Yes the employers are ultimately to blame but so too are the existing employees since many vacancies are inside knowledge and are still passed word of mouth so it is no surprise you see certain nationalities or ethnic groups dominating certain sectors in any economy around the world. This aspect has nothing to do with skill level or willingness to work at lower wages. It's called hiring your own kind.

Life / Ideas for constructive Immigration methods for Poland. [30]

The call for immigration to fill whatever gaps exist in Polish society fails to address why such gaps exist in the first place. If Polish schools are not turning out educated students with the right skill set or if Poles are put off from starting families or are having fewer children then there is a more deep rooted problem and bringing in immigrants will not solve it. Immigrants to Poland are very likely to have or want to start their own families. If the schools in Poland are bad then how will the immigrant children benefit? They won't. If immigrants are more willing to do any work at lower wages this will not spur economic growth but keep it flat.

The quick but short-term fix approach is simply to bring in even more immigrants and thus ignore the issues that are disincentivizing indigenous Poles from reaching their own maximum potential in life and at home in Poland. Even the video about the H-1B visa in America (a densely populated, multi-cultural, multi-racial country) demonstrates that theirs is a policy of treading water. It is an admission that they can't or won't develop enough home grown talent but instead continuously rely on the rest of the world to provide it. Such an approach reminds of the expression of having "brains on tap not on top".

Furthermore, since Poland is part of the EU any labor shortages should have been filled by citizens from other EU states. But the OP overlooks this and instead advocates immigration from non-EU countries instead. Why? The OP has admitted elsewhere on PF that his wife is Korean so he does not come to this topic from an unbiased viewpoint.

Love / How many Polish girls are married to foreigners? / How many Polish boys to foreign girls? [104]

@rankalee

Well, your posting is one of what seems to be a never ending stream on PF about why or how many Poles should go to bed with foreigners. There never is an answer is there?

It's a very odd obsession for so many people (or more likely just a few with multiple profiles) to have. It seems to me as if some just want to discover if there is any reality to their prnographic fantasies. That or there is so much hatred and/or self-loathing for all things Polish that there is a bizarre hope that Poland will be copulated out of existence since so many others have failed in the past to destroy it through war and oppression.

Love / How many Polish girls are married to foreigners? / How many Polish boys to foreign girls? [104]

@rankalee

Why is knowing a number of Poles who marry non-Poles important to you? If you ever got a correct figure what would you do with the information? I can't see any number you get ever proving anything.

UK, Ireland / First proper "Polish" School in the UK - The Next Stage of Ghettoisation [283]


Does you logic apply to Jews and their Kosher food markets or when Irish pubs open up all over Poland?

Travel / Poland in photo riddles [3134]


Catherine Tanagli in a triptych by Hans Memling titled "The Last Judgment" in the collection of The National Museum in Gdansk

More of this work can be seen here:
wikipaintings.org/en/hans-memling/the-last-judgment-triptych-right-wing-praying-donor-catherine-tanagli-with-archangel-michael-1471

Love / Please help in this long distance relationship (I live in Canada, she is in Poland) [12]

I've heard stories of people who start internet romances only to break up as soon as they finally meet in person. Go visit each other during a short holiday period instead. Planning to defer your or her studies for an entire year is misguided.

Travel / How much it costs a visit of Poland of one week? [7]


Yes, well, buying return tickets upfront are typically cheaper but whether this zohir cheribet plans on using them is another matter. He has already posted elsewhere on PF his desire to meet a Polish woman. For love of course! I find it sad actually to read over and over again that there never are any suitable women to be found outside of Poland.

News / American SM-3 ballistic missile site in Poland by 2018 [86]

If they have to be in Poland I hope their presence will gives no cause of concern for Poles and their families. Americans should strive to establish and maintain a reputation of being a good neighbor such as they do in Germany and not elsewhere like in Okinawa.

Wherever they end up the local community should completely avoid becoming economically dependent on this future American base. This has been the mistake made in the past by other communities in other areas of the world and it is always the locals who suffer the uncertainty and a spike in long-term unemployment when such bases ultimately get shut down.

I don't believe that Poland benefits from having this missile system other than proving to America that it is a trustworthy ally. The excuse given for basing this system in Poland is to stop missiles from Iran hitting Europe. But Iran has never threatened Europe with a military attack. In fact, Poland has diplomatic relations with Iran.

Even if you were to believe the Americans that this missile system is not to counter a potential Russian attack then the only conclusion that can be made is that the system is there to defend Israel from any possible Iranian counteroffensive should Iran be attacked by the West. In that case Poland should not become involved at all and this missile system should be put in Israel itself or some sparsely populated, less significant, and out of the way part of Europe; Scotland for instance.

Travel / How much it costs a visit of Poland of one week? [7]

I would guess probably anywhere between 2,000 and 4,000 Euros. That's taking into account your return flight, hotel, meals, shopping, local travel, etc. Poland is a large country and you didn't say which part you wanted to visit or what exactly you planned on doing during your trip. I also assumed you were traveling from and back to Algeria.

UK, Ireland / And you wonder why there is Anti-Polish feeling in the UK [187]

Poles are citizens of their own nation - a true and fully functioning democratic republic that has been hard fought for to retain.

Brits on the other hand have always been subjects of whoever their crowned rulers of the day have been. It's the same for them today as it has been since 1066. No wonder there is anti-Polish sentiment in the UK; it is sheer envy.

Life / Is it McPoland? [63]


I believe it is. When things become commodified and globalized they may seem to be tailored to the local culture but this is actually false advertising. They (corporations and multi-culturalists) never offer anything that is truly unique. Anything they present is commonplace or a watered down version of originality. It is also multi-cultural because all cultures are presented as having an equal footing with each other. That's why virtual every product sold or store built can be found in most other developed countries. They have to do this in order not to cause potential offense or sense of being excluded among their customers. And this standardization has cost savings as well. It's all about the bottom line for their balance sheets and not the preservation of any one culture.

Life / Is it McPoland? [63]

As you know there are many voices here on PF that decry Poland for not being multi-cultural. You can be certain that the majority of migrants (particularly from Britiain and America) living in Poland wholeheartedly welcome its McDonlandisation; crass commercialization is their own heritage after all.

Language / Learn Polish or Russian [86]


Your comments remind of why it is so fitting that an internationally recognized American icon is a clown that has a quintessentially Scottish surname: McDonald.

Language / Learn Polish or Russian [86]


It is ludicrous for you to describe Poles in America as peasants when it is you who is the de facto 21st century British commoner.

The real nonsense is your contempt for Polish immigrants being posted by you as an immigrant yourself to Poland.

Language / Learn Polish or Russian [86]

Poles were among the last big wave of Europeans to emigrate to America. America, even today, is quite a bigoted place but it was far worse in the past. It has a very long, dark history of discrimination (even institutionally) against all groups of people who weren't part of the business, educational and political class dominated by White Anglo-Saxon Protestant males. If you could trace your linage to some place like England, Scotland and overtime Ireland then you were OK. Beyond that you didn't fit in unless you went out of your way to change your identity. That's why most immigrants, Native Indians and blacks in America have Anglicized names (first, middle and last). I'm quite certain the ugly phrase "Speak English or Die" originated in America which says it all about where foreign language speakers fit it. And this pattern was reinforced by older immigrants towards the newly arriving ones.

So it is not surprising that knowledge of and resources to learn Polish withered away in America.

Of course it is different now in the US and accommodations are made for the newer wave of immigrants who speak Spanish, Mandarin, etc.

England and Scotland still have their own tawdry histories of racism and discrimination too but being in closer proximity to Europe and having joined European institutions helped to attenuate their natural tendency of acting bigoted towards non-English speakers. Still, the British rank in the bottom league when it comes to learning and being proficient in foreign languages. Some habits are just too hard to break.

History / Poland and Polish Anti-Semitism, c. 1918-1939 [148]


I can't imagine what sort of person would buy or want to read the memoir of a convicted pedophile.

Anyway, according to independent internet postings his grandparents on his father's side emigrated to America from Poland. But given Sandusky's own advanced age his grandparents certainly had to have left Poland when its borders lay much further to the east than they do today and during a time when Poland still had a large Jewish population. Nothing mentioned though about what religion they practiced if any so it shouldn't be discounted that he could very well be a blood member of your tribe. His father was from the US state of Pennsylvania which has had a significant Jewish presence for centuries. His mother is identified as being an Irish Catholic but interfaith marriages were never that uncommon in America. Furthermore, if you were to follow the pretzel logic of most of the expats (mainly British) living in Poland today and posting here on PF then Sandusky doesn't even remotely qualify as being "fully Polish". He is an American.

Also note the choice of spelling of his surname. Real Poles with their surnames ending -ski end it with the letter "i" where as the norm with Jews who have aped Polish surnames have typically chosen to end theirs with the letter "y". The infamous Clinton-era Jewish White House intern and tramp Monica Lewinsky is another example of this preference in spelling.

Life / Non-Polish natives mastering the art of selling at the markets [3]

Your account just proves that assimilation is far more important than multiculturalism. Even the leaders in the UK, Germany and France have acknowledged this.

There is no incentive to learn the local language and integrate in the wider society if the state provides or makes other taxpayer funded accommodations for most if not all of your daily needs.

Life / Freelance English teacher - Are Polish people unreliable? They continually cancel lessons... [22]

Poles are not unreliable; many just have very good intuition.

You already admitted you are frustrated and added you just want to make enough to move to Germany.

I think it is more a matter of prospective students picking up on your negativity and short-term outlook and realizing it won't be money worth spending.

It's only human nature to want to learn in a positive social environment where a student can be comfortable knowing his or her teacher is committed to delivering quality. You don't need to worry about getting any of that out of an iPhone. A teacher/student relationship is completely different from the purchase of a gadget.

Life / Poland needs more immigrants and their children - which nationalities are the best? [518]

The main topic of the thread makes the assumption that Poland needs more immigrants but no one has yet established why there is a need and how it would benefit all of Poland since immigration is a national issue.

The current Eurozone crisis should have shown the labor market mechanism within the European Union operate at its finest. Those EU countries currently suffering massive long-term unemployment (especially among the youth) in places like Spain and Greece should have seen job seekers from there move in very large numbers to those EU areas where the economic situation is at least stable if not more robust such as in Poland and Germany and where their prospects for employment would be better.

But this has not happened.

Granted there is a language barrier but this never stopped European immigrants in the past from moving to places like North America or even current immigrants from Africa, Asia and the Middle East from coming to Europe today with nothing more than ambition and empty pockets.

Younger people from the EU today tend to be quite educated, skilled and bilingual (particularly in English as the lingua franca) so this and the EU rules regarding resettlement should have made their transition all the more easier than that experienced by their ancestors or the current wave of non-EU migrants.

Even before the current crisis Polish citizens have been exercising their right to settle elsewhere in the EU and not all of them are or were fluent in the languages of their host countries or had exceptional talent that locals didn't.

What is absent in Poland is a nationwide demand from the Polish business sector to get people (qualified or at least trainable) to fill lots and lots of vacancies.

Although the labor market is always the slowest to correct itself compared to other traded commodities I don't believe there is demand in Poland that would justify a need for more immigrants. It isn't a matter of Polish politics throwing up barriers at every level either. Many other countries have far more restrictive immigration policies and attitudes. Poland always has had permanently settled immigrant communities from all around the world. They just aren't at the scale seen in some other countries.

But the market knows best and currently the conditions don't exist in Poland to attract immigrants. The supply of workers is there but there is no demand for them. That is why you have seen Poles in their millions leave. If businesses in Poland needed the labor they would be paying the wages to attract and keep it and you can be sure they would be twisting the arms of the politicians to get more immigrants in if they truly believed having them would make up any shortfalls.

On the other side of the border it is evident that even in dire circumstances most other EU citizens don't find Poland as a nation attractive to find work and settle in. They certainly have the right but they find the conditions don't exist there for them to want to go. This isn't to say that Poland has a problem because of this. You haven't seen a mass migration out of Spain or Greece to any of the other EU countries either like Germany or France. Both Spain and Greece still have high unemployment. If their job seekers left you would see a corresponding drop in their local unemployment rate. They may be thinking of moving but they obviously don't see their life chances improving by resettling anywhere.

As far as non-EU migrants go their motivations for making the EU a destination are different. Yes, better jobs prospects are at the forefront. But their is no pull coming from the EU since there is no genuine demand for their labor especially nowadays. Instead conditions like overcrowding due to unsustainable populations, rampant corruption, poor sanitation, hunger, war, etc. are all push factors which make them seek out the EU as a first if not ultimate destination.

The non-EU migrants simply show up. Poland and other EU nations have been very gracious and accommodating hosts to them too. Certainly without comparison if you were to reverse the situation.

Travel / Mexican going to Poland (Katowice). What do I need? [18]


Sorry but you misquoted. I never said those words; cldagy did.

News / British senior politician compares Poland to South Africa during apartheid [129]


The problems are not anywhere near the scale you would hope they would be. And any ludicrous notion that "one incident is one too many" ignores the reality that no one can control the thoughts and actions of everyone, everywhere. There will always be a tiny element in any society who will look to stir up troubles. That doesn't mean all of Poland or Ukraine are to blame if and when someone misbehaves during the games. You know this makes sense because we've already established your own unwillingness to accept responsibility for the crimes Britain has committed.

Of course Poland and Ukraine have considered safety and security measures needed during the games. However, Poland and Ukraine should not turn themselves into pervasive and intrusive police states just because you are used to Britain being one even though it is still unable to tackle its own ongoing problems of racism and related crime in the UK.

And if you think ordinary Poles or Ukrainians should be publicly tarring and feathering their own citizens or even foreigners who commit acts of hooliganism you are dreaming. There won't be any emotional dramas worthy of daytime TV just so you can be kept entertained. If any crime occurs it needs to be referred to local police and they will investigate. That's how crimes are handled.

Anyway, since you acknowledged that UEFA is corrupt then I really don't see why you should care what goes on with EURO 2012. You should just write it all off as a lost cause and go about your business elsewhere because I seriously doubt you have been writing to your MP or other public officials in Blighty to put an end to Britain's involvement in the games.

As you know there have been silly people whining on the internet and the media even before the games got started and virtually all of them have UK post codes, IP addresses or extended ties back in Britain.

News / British senior politician compares Poland to South Africa during apartheid [129]


You are mistaken. If the problems you claim are so shockingly bad in Poland and Ukraine then the games would never have been hosted there. Otherwise you need to admit that the games went ahead because of corruption in UEFA and for that reason alone the games should be boycotted.

Hypocritical Brits have been jumping up and down warning everyone about Poland and Ukraine and yet fans from all over the world have still been going to the games and there have been no mass evacuations out of either country. You must regard all these fans and players (especially the British) as complete idiots for walking willingly into two lion dens.

Britain has unresolved issues with racism at every level of its society. So where are your calls to have the London Olympics boycotted? Oh, that's right, "nothing to see here." Its "ancient history."

Feel free to lash out or cower.

News / British senior politician compares Poland to South Africa during apartheid [129]


I never denied there is racism in Poland. I've already stated in my other posts that racism exists in all societies.

However you and others are taking great delight in seeing the problem of hooliganism in Poland being blown completely out of proportion.

How can any of you pass judgement on Poland but then cower or lash out like a cornered animal when people use Britain as a comparison? You have to admit that Britain is and always will be the tarnished gold standard when it comes to racism and crimes against humanity.

News / British senior politician compares Poland to South Africa during apartheid [129]


I agree. One of the other posters tried to dismiss their criminal past as "ancient history" but this just reminded me of the phrase "ignorance is bliss".

It must be nice to be in Britain where the high standard of living still being enjoyed today was literally built off the beaten, bloodied and broken backs of others from all around the world. But the people they exploited were poor, non-white and from far away so it easy to assuage any guilt by simply forgetting it all. Let bygones be bygones they declare when confronted with their dirty deeds.

News / British senior politician compares Poland to South Africa during apartheid [129]


Of course the British are aware of their shameful past and present. It's one thing to talk about it amongst yourselves but it is quite another matter when Britain dons its whiter-than-white mantle of hypocrisy in a pathetic attempt to cover up its crimes as it chastises the rest of the world.

So, where are the reparations? When are you and your ilk going to pay up? Cash only please and it better be in the trillions.