News / Polish Independence Day March in Warsaw. Is it going to be the biggest march yet? [1530]


Oh no, don't take an identity that I've never claimed or wanted away from me! You're the one who wants to be Polish...

News / Polish Independence Day March in Warsaw. Is it going to be the biggest march yet? [1530]

I posted a link to a poll a day or so ago that shows the majority does not support it. Find our own poll...


Did a pseudo-Pole just say something?

News / Polish Independence Day March in Warsaw. Is it going to be the biggest march yet? [1530]


pesky Pollish people who live in Poland? Do you have any evidence that the march in the form it's had in the last few years enjoys broad support among the Polish public? The only real data point I could find shows quite the opposite (which jibes with my experiences talking with Polish people in Poland).


As an American from the South, I find the term "Yanks" to be very offensive (as it only refers to northerners).

News / Polish Independence Day March in Warsaw. Is it going to be the biggest march yet? [1530]

As I keep being reminded here, "real" Poles don't care about the country's international image.

News / Polish Independence Day March in Warsaw. Is it going to be the biggest march yet? [1530]


Which enemies of the homeland do you wish death upon? How do you want to kill them?

g5.gazetaprawna.pl/p/_wspolne/pliki/3154000/3154887-marsz-niepodleglosci.jpg

News / Polish Independence Day March in Warsaw. Is it going to be the biggest march yet? [1530]


That is absolutely true, I'm a (sort of proud) American and was raised areligiously.
That is absolutely irrelevant to the fact that I'm right; A large majority of Polish people (those living in Poland) don't like the march in Warsaw in the form it's had the last couple of years where most of the publicity is taken by thuggish skinheads carrying banners that say things like "Death to the Enemies of the Homeland".

I have no super strong opinions on the parade (which is a mixed bag with lots of less threatening groups too) all I'm claiming is that a majority of Polish people don't like it and that's backed up by recent reliable polling. While claims that a majority of Poles support the march in its current incarnation is supported by..... what exactly?

News / Polish Independence Day March in Warsaw. Is it going to be the biggest march yet? [1530]


I've lived in Poland a lot longer than you, probably speak and read Polish better than you, and you want me out of the country? Or don't want me to express my opinion when it's different from yours?

Did you ever express if your opinion in the UK, non-English guy?

News / Polish Independence Day March in Warsaw. Is it going to be the biggest march yet? [1530]


Just don't complain when other countries take the banners seriously....

g3.gazetaprawna.pl/p/_wspolne/pliki/3154000/3154897-marsz-niepodleglosci-657-323.jpg

What guarantee that those charmers won't declare _you_ an enemy of the homeland....

News / Polish Independence Day March in Warsaw. Is it going to be the biggest march yet? [1530]


He has a history here.... I think he didn't understand (though ignorance of the written language or reading too quickly).

The sample size is pretty normal the paper that commissioned it is not really left wing at all.

It jibes with my experience on the ground in Poland where most people don't want anything to do with the white power football hooligan parades....

News / Polish Independence Day March in Warsaw. Is it going to be the biggest march yet? [1530]


I think Dirk doesn't really read Polish....

News / Polish Independence Day March in Warsaw. Is it going to be the biggest march yet? [1530]

Somebody finally got around to asking the real Polish public, and.... it seems they don't like the march as much as some armchair Poles in other countries do. Only about 2 % of those surveyed would like to take part in it.

wiadomosci.wp.pl/sondaz-polacy-nie-chca-isc-w-marszu-razem-z-narodowcami-6314605494847617a

News / Polish Independence Day March in Warsaw. Is it going to be the biggest march yet? [1530]


I agree, I don't like the thing but it's not the mayor's call minus extenuating circumstances which I don't thinke exist (yet).


Yeah, it's become a hot potato that the political establishment doesn't want

News / Polish Independence Day March in Warsaw. Is it going to be the biggest march yet? [1530]


But that doesn't explain why every other non-crazy party is avoiding it like the plague... If it were just PiS being control freaks then other parties would jump on board. But they're not because the disreputable quotient is too high.

News / Polish Independence Day March in Warsaw. Is it going to be the biggest march yet? [1530]

Back in reality, far away from the mad dreams of pseudo-Poles abroad, PM Morawiecki explains why the government wants no part of the great patriotic march.

Apparently he he talked to organizers in an attempt to the march into a: "marsz państwowy; potężna i radosna manifestacja na 100-lecie niepodległości" (a state march, a powerful manifestation of 100 years of independence)

The organizers refused "by powiewały na nim wyłącznie biało-czerwone flagi, żeby nie było żadnych transparentów" (that only white and red flags fly over it, that there be no banners)

He also said the organizers cannot guarantee the safety of participants and bystanders

He encourages everyone to take part instead in a "patriotic picnic" on the same day....

more at:
wiadomosci.wp.pl/mateusz-morawiecki-wyjasnia-dlaczego-nie-pojdzie-w-marszu-niepodleglosci-6314282831554177a

News / Polish Independence Day March in Warsaw. Is it going to be the biggest march yet? [1530]


I completely agree, but the Warsaw march is kind of an effed up event (that has almost no support from most people in the country) Mention the march to a bunch of young 20 somethings and watch their faces collapse....

News / Polish Independence Day March in Warsaw. Is it going to be the biggest march yet? [1530]


I think you answered your own question, the armchair Poles live vicariously through figures that most people in Poland want nothing to do with....

News / Polish Independence Day March in Warsaw. Is it going to be the biggest march yet? [1530]

Meanwhile, back in Poland the mayor of Wrocław has outlawed a march there

wroclaw.onet.pl/wroclaw-prezydent-zakazal-marszu-polski-niepodleglej/hpdk42v

And Warsaw mayor is threatening to call off the march if flares are used...

wiadomosci.onet.pl/opinie/gronkiewicz-waltz-o-mozliwym-rozwiazaniu-marszu-niepodleglosci/4qbkw9z

News / Polish Independence Day March in Warsaw. Is it going to be the biggest march yet? [1530]


Polish culture can handle lots of immigrants who want to assimilate and can and will work in Polish conditions, it can't afford to turn a few thousand non-assimilating immigrants into welfare pets as happens in much of Western Europe.

News / Polish Independence Day March in Warsaw. Is it going to be the biggest march yet? [1530]


Yes, what people who don't actually live in the country don't realize is that there's no broad enthusiasm for that particular March (even if some sections of it aren't as bad as the worst). Those who really like it tend to be non-Poles, armchair Poles abroad and people that most Polish people try no to make eye contact with.

If it had broad support then politicians would be falling over themselves to attend instead of carefully avoiding it.

News / Polish Independence Day March in Warsaw. Is it going to be the biggest march yet? [1530]


Things have improved regarding the things you mention. Where I live cars almost always stop for pedestrians now (not the case a couple of years ago) and the culture of drinking has greatly declined since the end of communism. My first time in Poland, in the summer in the 1980s, there were drunk people passed out on the sidewalk or in parks all over the place (you could barely go a day without seeing one) and these weren't homeless bums they were dressed normally. I think last summer I might have seen one...

But social policy itself can only do so much and a lot of the problems you mention are unavoidable parts of increasing prosperity.


For Poland, it largely means deciding what to do without too much input from outsiders.

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]


Because the filthy thieves that run the place are too busy stealing it!

News / Polish Independence Day March in Warsaw. Is it going to be the biggest march yet? [1530]


I'd have to pay more attention to it (I've really tried to ignore it and once even left the country to avoid thinking/hearing about it)

First draft might be:

Blue pill version: Oh my god, nazis and skinheads and riots and breakage, oh the breakage! Don't get me started on the litter!

Purple pill version*: Polish pride! Damn those Germans! And Russians! and Globohomos! Patriotism! God, honor and country! Soros must be really mad at us right now!

Red pill version: Big mess of a bunch of different groups, some of which are pretty dodgy and some of which aren't that bad or maybe pretty okay. Everybody freaks out either negatively or positively.

*Purple pill has different meanings, either partial red pilling or reverse blue pilling (uncritically believing stuff from sketchy news providers that aren't necessarily reliable) I tend toward the latter

There's also the black pill version: All is lost, we're all going to die, despair......

News / Polish Independence Day March in Warsaw. Is it going to be the biggest march yet? [1530]


Because everything is politicized in Poland...


It's from the Matrix (where Neo is given a choice of returning to his old life by taking the blue pill or discovering the true nature of reality by taking the red pill)

Itis now used as a cover term for a lot of things

blue pill - accept what people tell you and what you hear in the mainstream media

red pill - realize that a lot of what goes in the media is not really true and discover a new 'truth'

for example

Rotherham

blue pill version - nothing to see here (then finally the admission that a few totally random people of the male persuasion may have taken certain liberties with random people of the female persuasion but there's nothing to be alarmed at and maybe the police could have been a bit more quick about tackling the problem but what are you going to do? maybe it's all for the best....

red pill version - gangs made up overwhelmingly of muslim men (mostly of a pakistani background) systematically groomed and sexually abused young women from vulnerable backgrounds (most of whom where ethnically white English) and police and some government figures knew about it and did nothing because they were afraid of being called racist (which would effectively end their careers)

News / Polish Independence Day March in Warsaw. Is it going to be the biggest march yet? [1530]


From what I've heard his most ardent supporters are Russians abroad, especially those who aren't very materially successful...

News / Polish Independence Day March in Warsaw. Is it going to be the biggest march yet? [1530]

Along with forum favorite Vova Putin, word is they'll sign a friendship agreement (on a bridge crossing the Wisła) and then repair back to Warschau and Варшава respectively to start municipal improvements.

News / Polish Independence Day March in Warsaw. Is it going to be the biggest march yet? [1530]


To difficult for PiS....


The natural assumption.

News / Polish Independence Day March in Warsaw. Is it going to be the biggest march yet? [1530]


the point is the government hasn't really organized anything instead... just bad planning, as is typical with PiS....

News / Polish Independence Day March in Warsaw. Is it going to be the biggest march yet? [1530]


Not to mention the hastily put together last minute idea to make the 12th a free day. In principle I think it might have been a good idea had it been planned and announced a lot earlier.

PiS is just bad at the day to day business of governing (why they spend so much time trying to distract people with trivia get them riled up by nonsense controversies like reparations).

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]


The thing is that.... you don't much get that. There is one language of public policy and religious variety is kept out of the public sphere and cultural practices also have to be channeled within a range of acceptable variation. It's not a monoculture but it's not muliticulturalism either in any real sense (and to the extent that it's starting to become multicultural the same sort of conflicts as plague Europe appear).

At one time the US could take people of any linguistic racial or religious background and turn them into Americans within a couple of generations (with a few bumps along the way), but those days are over and you shouldn't think you're getting the old US model when you'll be getting the newer Balkanized one.

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]


What's her desire to eliminate cultural and language and religious differences? I don't like that, do you?

This is the "liberal imperialism" described by Hazony: "Dogmatic and utopian, it assumes that the final truths concerning mankind's fate have long since been discovered, and that all that remains is a way to impose them"