USA, Canada / American father's son is in Poland, [he's] told to pay child support.... [30]


Stop excluding women from blame. I blame the vast feminist organizations for this nonsense. They have been very effective and male manginas and other female fellow travelers have done absolutely nothing to prevent these perversions in law, and there are more of them than you care to realize. Just to rattle off one out of dozens of examples; women have special health department offices which men are denied.

It would seem that when it comes to law as well as culture women are quite comfortable being special; "animals more equal than other animals" to quote Orwell. That's my complaint.

Women who say, "I'm not a feminist" but continue to go along without doing their part for real equality are also to blame. Like most modern women, you live on the surface. Try digging a little deeper.

USA, Canada / American father's son is in Poland, [he's] told to pay child support.... [30]

I've known of other cases which involved women kidnapping the child from the custodial father and years later, sometimes many years later, demand that the aggrieved father pay child support even though the father was given no visitation rights let alone was unaware of the child's location.

The fact that this was even attempted is proof of how 'entitled' women feel when it comes to their superior rights.

USA, Canada / American father's son is in Poland, [he's] told to pay child support.... [30]


I knew that this is the sort of reasoning that defenders of this injustice would use. Your question could be true for anyone during any litigation. In any case, the U.S. courts didn't seem to find him abusive. How do you know she wasn't abusive?


Ever hear of parental alienation? It's when a custodial parent constantly says negative things about an ex spouse and the child or children grow up hating the other parent.

keepingfamiliesconnected.org (nice video with the article).


Are you daft? From the link: "But Serrano has Cook County court orders that say the boy was "unlawfully removed" by the mother to Poland, Serrano should have full custody of his son, and, as the custodial parent, he does not owe child support."


He was lawfully collecting money just as millions of women do when their spouse dies. Not surprisingly, you bought into the "deadbeat dad" nonsense; that's how successful the feminization of the west has been. Always doubt the male; always believe the female.

USA, Canada / American father's son is in Poland, [he's] told to pay child support.... [30]

On the surface, it would seem that the judicial systems are Draconian for men. Here, an American father was given custody by a U.S. court; the child is kidnapped by its mother, who flees to another country, and has the rules changed in her favor.

You will not find an example where men "kidnap" their kids and have laws swayed in their favor.
-

Skysoulmate: "My mother used to chair a local chapter of the Feminist Party (feministiskt initiativ - F!) in Sweden but she left it because of their strong anti-male views."

...and yet, some women in these forums still don't get it. They prefer to protect their many advantages and not demanding 'real' equality.

Love / Polish men what is the worst thing a girl can do upon first impression? [360]


As evidenced in these forums, obviously a lot more than you (do).


You keep repeating that sort of self-congratulatory theme. Perhaps you'll eventually convince yourself.


lol, Have you not looked at your posts? Half of your comments are insults. Look, I don't care if you write like a woman, look like a woman, or have an effeminate nature. People are who they are.


Besides being self-congratulatory, you also project poorly. Are you really unaware of how juvenile your self serving masterbatory comments are? Only phonies keep throwing their 'feelings' up against the wall that often hoping that some of them stick.


The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) demands that there can be no discrimination when applying for jobs. Of course, rarely does a woman apply for work such as this. It seems that "equality" stops when it is real.


I've been calling this 'pick-and-choose' equality for years. In the U.S. it got so tiring to hear feminists constantly shriek, "women can do any job a man can....." and yet, they so conveniently ignore the many men who drive long-haul trucks across the U.S. or the men who are bomb technicians, or any variety of work that demands danger, let alone dirty work. This is the essence of my complaint; it's the hypocrisy so many upper middle class and upper class feminists display in their daily rants. They never want to see the whole picture.

Love / Polish men what is the worst thing a girl can do upon first impression? [360]


Some activities however, are manly. I won't name the dozens that qualify but let's take Hazmat diver for instance, those guys swim into clouds of toxic waste, or oil rig worker. Not too many "equal rights" feminists are lining up for those jobs, eh?


Strike One!


Strike Two!


Strike Three! You're out!

Love / Polish men what is the worst thing a girl can do upon first impression? [360]


The two are not interwoven as one. A man can be effeminate (see MareGaea) and be self-reliant.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effeminacy

Ordering pizza every day (like a lot of college kids do) doesn't have anything to do with being woman-like.


Again, the two are not necessarily related. Lots of 'sissies" as you call them, know how to take care of themselves. Lots of so-called macho men can be slobs.


Blond or brunette? ....maybe a redhead? ...but of course you are correct. What kind of relationship can it be if one party has to do everything?

Love / Polish men what is the worst thing a girl can do upon first impression? [360]


Your benevolence to the women here is so generous that you shouldn't have to ask for their gratitude. Real men know that such benefaction goes without saying. lol


Your self-congratulations which are now legendary, have no finite end.
Oh, as to PM's, so far I've received 697,017 and counting. Thankfully, the elves I've hired to read them for me are working for only half the minimum wage. But allow me now to tell all the other posters to stop flooding my Inbox.

========================

f stop: "A man's man..."

Oh, so you've heard the rumors?

Love / Polish men what is the worst thing a girl can do upon first impression? [360]

Oh no you don't; I'm not going there. If some men wish to be effeminate than it's their decision and none of my business. Just to tie this in with the topic at hand, I'm sure that's something that turns off most women at first impression.

Now go put some Kefalotyri or Feta cheese on your Psomi or Olive bread and drink it down with Ouzo.

Love / Polish men what is the worst thing a girl can do upon first impression? [360]


You challenged the assumption by some here that MareGaea is female. Look at post #310 and you'll find that Ironside may have that same impression. Another poster on another forum does as well. Frankly, that doesn't really matter; we just wanted to know.

I'll take a vote. How many of you here feel that MareGaea may be a female?
(Several dozen hands shoot up)

Love / Polish men what is the worst thing a girl can do upon first impression? [360]


You and I and other posters here get that same impression.


Fair enough. The only caveat would be if a die-hard feminist began spouting her feminism within minutes of meeting some unlucky guy.

Love / Polish men what is the worst thing a girl can do upon first impression? [360]


As usual I'll step up to the plate. That's a baseball expression but this time the plate is a dish.

independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/news/do-men-really-make-the-best-chefs-1938708.html

From the link; "...celebrity chef John Burton Race says: "It is a fact that men are the best cooks, professional or not. Industrial kitchens may have heavy equipment, but men are the best cooks because they are more passionate and take cooking more seriously."

As to cleaning, I've known many more women who were such perfectionists that not even a hint of a mess was tolerated (with the possible exception of cat hair).

Love / Polish men what is the worst thing a girl can do upon first impression? [360]


Here's what you don't want to know; it is feminists who constantly publish how brutal men are and they have been the ones who counted the slaps, and light punches as women being brutalized. Their literature on this is everywhere and magazines and newspapers publish this nonsense. Many such articles miraculously appear around Father's Day.


If several hundred diverse and unrelated studies cannot convince you than nothing can.


You notice that too eh? Writes like a woman. I suspect it may be true or MareGaea is just a very effeminate man, and there's nothing wrong with that.


It's just in my nature to show proof unlike some posters here who merely have their own self-congratulating opinions.


If you were having a drink and a cigar with me at the club than no. ... but the internet is full of links that we all use, isn't it?


Only feminists and their pseudo fellow-travelers. Of course compared to the thousands of anti-male books, magazines, articles, special reports, etc propagated by various feminist organizations, my retorts are mere snowballs compared to their avalanche of male hate.


Never said that, never would. Only a simpleton attempts to distort honest discourse to this low level.


That stuff you are smoking allows you to hallucinate doesn't it? Try writing fiction, you're a natural for that genre.


You prefer to live in a dictatorship don't you? I cannot tell you how many feminist apologists like you would stymie free speech. I understand how painful reality and truth are to people like you. For the record, I would not censor your opinions. Forgive me for admitting to being on a higher moral ground on this issue.


If I exaggerate than so do all those professionals from the Feibert link. You really want to know about real exaggerations and lies? Just ask me and I'll link (sorry) you some feminist literature. Do you really believe that one in four women are raped? That's what they say along with lots of other nonsense.


Don't fear that which you disagree with.

Like you just did, I find that lots of women personalize a general topic. Nevertheless, it's hard to disagree with what I stated since the proof and evidence is all around us. Do you really need examples?


Absolutely correct! Perhaps you could start by demanding justice for men in court during divorce proceedings, or in child custody cases, or simply demand that women be conscripted just as men are, or start a campaign demanding that women pay for their fair share on a date, or (let me know, I've got dozens of possibilities for you).

Love / Polish men what is the worst thing a girl can do upon first impression? [360]


If you actually took the time to read how the hundreds of studies were done than you would not ask such a dumb question. You can google these studies (as I did with about 40 of them).


Here we have a woman who started the first womens shelter in England because she cared about battered women. This was an epic event and many more shelters came out of it. Hard to believe that you don't care. Guess your agenda is more important than facts.


Another lie, you really are falling down on this one. She never stated that. Her big sin with feminists was that she tried to treat women and men equally. Feminists who firebombed her couldn't handle that. As to "confirming things to" myself, I don't have a need too. Those events were in the news. But then, facts are unimportant to liberals. Only feelings are.


Heh,heh,heh, you really are unaware of how desperate you sound. Your misrepresentations, some of which I've corrected, are here for all to see.


If you had looked at my links you wouldn't ask that question. I'll make it easy for you; heres one:

csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm


That's not even the point. Many women hit men and know the men in their life won't strike back. Relationships are 'dynamic'. People know each other and each others weaknesses. They use them against each other regardless of size.


I've linked that one too (sigh). I suggest you brush up before asking questions that have already been recently answered in these threads.


Just linking


See above link.

Love / Polish men what is the worst thing a girl can do upon first impression? [360]


I suppose that the "if it's even true" comment is typical because people have been fed all the feminist nonsense about women being "victims" only and men of course being the perpetrators. Also, the blame game has been big; "deadbeat dads" etc, is constantly fed via articles and even promotions. I blame the media which is generally liberal for perpetuating this myth. I do suggest that people use cognitive dissonance more often so that what they believe to be true is questioned even if it doesn't fit their beliefs or agenda.

Fact is, women abuse their children more often than men if all categories except one. That one is sexual abuse. Even here, people are unaware of the facts. Lots of interesting articles here:

canadiancrc.com/Female_Sex_Offenders-Female_Sexual_Predators_awareness.aspx

Love / Polish men what is the worst thing a girl can do upon first impression? [360]


You have done no such thing. Your attempts at 'spin' are pathetic.


Let's focus on one thing here otherwise you'll continue to spin the liberal bullcrap I've heard so often. How are "271 scholarly investigations: 211 empirical studies and 60 reviews and/or analyses", almost all not connected to each other "not reliable" as you put it? Some of these came from university studies which tend to be liberal. All came from professionals with no ax to grind. Given this, you only seem to prove things to yourself which is a far cry from reality. Seems like you are the kind of person who can look at the color red and say that its black.


You only prove things to yourself. Ms Pizzey was a feminist who started the first womens shelter in England. She learned the hard way what feminism was about when they threatened her, fire bombed her, and slammed her every-which-way because she did not confirm to their male hatred. She is the face you fear because she does not confirm to your jaundiced liberal beliefs. Women like her are a threat to your agenda. Instead of understanding her experience and her truth, you slam her.


You have it exactly backwards again. Feminist organizations claim that any overt physical or even oral action against a woman is considered "abusive" or even "battering". Men who get punched in the arm don't complain about it. Women who get punched in the arm are considered "battered". As you know, men complain far fewer times than women do and our culture is largely responsible for that.

Its noticeable that you seem to convince yourself of your own arguments. You frequently state things like, "compare my thrashing of zimmy" or "my rebuke...." etc. Your method of communication is so self-serving but I forget the name for this condition. Essentially, it is an attempt to prove to yourself that you are right. It's a kind of defensiveness that I've found to be prevalent in liberal circles. It should embarass the writer (or speaker). You do this so often that it makes one wonder how insecure you really are.


Women inherently mate with men who are their equals or better. Wealthy men not infrequently marry a waitress, secretary, etc. It seems to be the way of nature. That's because men cater to beauty or attractivenss and women cater to money and/or social strata.

If men did "quit {their} jobs", than the whole infrastructure of western civilization would collapse. No repairs on bridges, roads, buildings, no electricity, air line pilots, no plumbers,

auto mechanics, oil rig workers, long-haul truckers, etc, etc, etc. The same effect would not occur if all women quit their jobs.


I dont disagree. Indeed, there are too many single parent families (only 10% headed by men) in our society and I could trace much of this breakdown to the government which attempts to nanny-state women. But the point is still valid. It's one of those that feminists whistle past because it doesn't confirm to their agenda that "women are victims" and "men are oppressors". I would think that women would be tired of that old drum beat by now.

Love / Polish men what is the worst thing a girl can do upon first impression? [360]


It's painfully noticeable that you regurgitate all the false feminist figures and rhetoric that's been around since the 1970's. They've done a good job with their self-serving propaganda. People like yourselfpreferto believe them.

Spend 1/2 hour looking at the bottom line of the statistics in this link which is objective because none of the 542 studies are related to each other. They were all done independently, That should bring you up to date, that is, to 2010.


Are you not aware that most child abuse is committed by women? Are you shocked because that fact doesn't fit in with your feminist bullcrap? I'm almost embarrassed for you because you buy the feminist line hook, line and sinker. Most up-to-date people just shake their heads when they hear or read the kind of bunk you spout. That's because they are tired of the same old fem-lies.


Ms Pizzey's life experiences speak for themselves. She started out trying to help women but soon realized what a wicked cabal the feminists were. Feminists like yourself are terrified of her because she's been there and done that; and she speaks from her experience.


Wrong! The feminists have shown that they want one-sided laws and advantages for themselves and there is absolutely no empathy for males. It shows in too many ways for me to address here but I'll quickly mention one; feminists oppose shelters for men and have often appeared at hearings demanding that only women be provided for. Their history in this is a sordid one.


The government does indeed have an agenda because by its very nature it wants to be a nanny state. The more dependence on government, the more it grows and that is the nature of the beast. Also, figures given to government agencies are often skewed because for instance, men don't report women's abuse as frequently as women do. Women are encouraged to report it, men are told, "take it like a man" or are laughed at if they do. In short, there are cultural and sociological reasons which do not tell the whole story. Of course, independent numerous studies like the "Feibert" ones gather all objective information available which includes non-reported violence. If you had the courage to go through these studies than you would have noticed that even the women themselves admit to being violent even though their male victims never reported it.

I'm off to the beach before it rains........

Oh, I almost forgot, child abuse info: faq.acf.hhs.gov/cgi-bin/acfrightnow.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=70

From the link: "According to the National Child Abuse and Neglect Data System's most current report, Child Maltreatment 2008, of the approximately 772,000 child abuse and neglect victims in 2008, the largest percentage of perpetrators, nearly 80 percent (80.1) were parents of the victim, including birth parents, adoptive parents, and stepparents. Of the parents who were perpetrators, more than 90 percent (90.9) were biological parents, about 4 percent (4.4) were stepparents, and about 1 percent (0.7) were adoptive parents. Other relatives accounted for an additional 6.5 percent, and an unmarried partner of a parent accounted for 4.4 percent of perpetrators."

In 2008, approximately 56 percent (56.2%) of child abuse and neglect perpetrators were women and 42 percent (42.6%) were men. For the most part, female perpetrators were younger than male perpetrators; of the women who were perpetrators, about 40 percent (45.3) of women were younger than 30 years of age as compared with one-third (35.2%) of the men. These proportions have remained consistent over the past few years.

Lake Michigan awaits.........as does volleyball

UK, Ireland / Oxford Polish bride 'heartbroken' over arrest - accusations of sham marriage [126]


You attributed this quote to me - it isn't mine.

Would you sign that 4-part contract noted in post 81?

UK, Ireland / Oxford Polish bride 'heartbroken' over arrest - accusations of sham marriage [126]

Here's another way women can marry more than once for the money, money, money...

the-spearhead.com/2010/06/19/another-woman-caught-shaking-down-soldiers/

UK, Ireland / Oxford Polish bride 'heartbroken' over arrest - accusations of sham marriage [126]


Marrying someone for money makes you a prostitute - and this rose doesn't smell as sweet.


Ah yes, personal attacks yet again. I'm not concerned with anecdotal examples but by the overall numbers and the reasons for them. Perhaps you should try to expand your narrow minded viewpoints. Here is an example (not mine);

A hypothetical question for the women:

Suppose you’re in love with a man and the two of you are considering marriage. As you’re getting close to committing, he tells you that he’d like you to sign a pre-nuptial agreement. The agreement states:

1. If the marriage results in children, he will stay home to care for them or take a lesser career move to be more free to care for them.

2. You(the wife) will be primarily financially responsible for the support of the family — even if he’s working.

3. If the marriage ends in divorce, he will retain custody of the children. You may see them four days per month.

4. You will pay him (at least) 40% of your take home pay every month if the marriage results in divorce. This amount will be set as a dollar amount and will remain in effect regardless of any change in your personal financial circumstances.

Would you sign that, or would you judge that to be a bad deal? Because basically, ALL men in the Western world are signing that pre-nup when they get married.

To the male readers here: you identify with the above, but my friend Patrick put it simply but truthfully.

Love / Polish men what is the worst thing a girl can do upon first impression? [360]


Is it possible for you to contribute something substantial to conversation? It's also noticeable that you are afraid to comment on what 'real people' write. Since you are an apologist for feminism, what do you think (not feel) about Erin Pizzey or is she too much truth for you?

ifeminists.net/introduction/editorials/2004/0818rolph.html

From the link:

"At the same time as the Communists were plotting to take over the feminist movement, here in Great Britain, a diplomats daughter was about to open the worlds first domestic violence shelter. Her name is Erin Pizzey4 and she is one of the bravest and most intelligent modern women I have ever had the pleasure to talk to. Let Erin explain, in her article "THE PLANNED DESTRUCTION OF THE FAMILY"5 what happened next:

By now I was very firmly 'the enemy.' Men, at this point, took the whole movement as a joke but it was no joke, as many homeless men deprived of their children will tell you. Savaged by feminist lawyers and therapists, men have routinely been deprived of their homes, their children and their incomes.

Love / Polish men what is the worst thing a girl can do upon first impression? [360]


I never mentioned Oppenheimer. stop the straw-dog premises! Besides, we all know that intelligence is not one dimensional. When I talk with university professors, I find that many of them are intelligent in the conventional sense but lack a certain smartness and often common sense. Additionally, there is a form called 'street smarts'.


I may even agree with you on this but that isn't the issue. You once again totally missed the point. When feminists shriek "equality", they ignore what you just stated. They pick-and-choose careers in those area they want but ignore the tough jobs. Look at Denmark. Feminists (and socialists) demand that women should make up 40% of various boards, political appointments and upper management. That, of course is sheer stupidity, let alone sexism. Yet, these same feminists don't demand that women become 40% of oil rig workers (among dozens of other male dominated jobs). Men and women are different and this sort of nonsense has no place in civilized society.


They don't get paid less for the same job. They often get paid more for the same job. Did you not comprehend my previous post and link? You really are still living as if it was the 1950's.


You never did confirm or deny if you are female or a feminized male. Please do so. Reading the above makes me think you lied about your gender.


That's the clincher. You are female. Only women write like that.
Men like myself who are considered 'security objects' have no reason to marry because we have too much to lose. As I've often stated, no man should marry until the court systems become equitable to men.


My, but your envy is pronounced. You really are a very poor judge of people.


You just stated that you leave stuff out and ignore other facts. Perhaps it's your English so I won't be too harsh. Nor did you specifically refute the facts.

I presented more definitive info than you did and by a large margin. You merely capitulated.
The threads are here for all to read.
Oh, one more thing. I welcome any moderator of these forums to meet me in person and find out for themselves who I am.


Since you live in England and have been in a shelter, I am curious as to what you think about this article by Erin Pizzey who opened up the first womens shelter there.

fathersforlife.org/pizzey/planned_destruction_of_family.htm

Additional follow-up: ifeminists.net/introduction/editorials/2004/0818rolph.html

Love / Polish men what is the worst thing a girl can do upon first impression? [360]


You sound as if it's 1970. First, if women really wanted "equal jobs" than half of all oil rig workers, long-haul truckers, auto repair, refuse workers, fishermen, hazmat workers, etc, etc, would be women. Fact is, women gravitate to jobs which don't involve dirty and dangerous work. Don't insult yourself by pointing out exceptions which only prove the point.

As to "equal payment", the facts are these;
1/men are paid more for doing the dangerous work (men make up 93% of all job related deaths because of the kind of jobs men do - pay is higher for such work)

2 women take more time off from work because of illnesses and because of taking care of kids thus losing years of seniority.
3/ In the U.S. men on average work more overtime (5 hours per week more) thus boosting their wages.
4/women doing 'the same work' as men are paid the same. Individual exceptions always exist and that's true for men to. Some jobs pay women more for the same work men do.

Examples include modeling, and women who work in so-called male professions since companies want to boost their female percentages in these areas.

Much of this is common sense stuff, but then phony elitists like you don't have any.

womensissues.about.com/od/intheworkplace/a/HigherEarnings.htm

From the link:
"......over 80 occupations that not only bring home the bacon, butearn women from 5% up to 43% more than men holding down the same jobs. They include sales engineers (who make on average $89,908 - 43% more than their male counterparts earning $62,660) and automotive service technicians and mechanics (average earnings $40,664 for women, $31,460 for men - a difference of 29%)."

--------------------------------------------

MareGaie: "You have said nothing that I didn't say"

It should be obvious that I've stated the exact opposite, but than, you need an IQ above 70 to understand that. Amazing.

Love / Polish men what is the worst thing a girl can do upon first impression? [360]


I chewed you up and spit you out so I don't blame you for quitting your losing argument.
I do blame you however, for being a pretending elitist and a phony. At any rate I accept your capitulation.


This surprising response to Izvirai contradicts your statements that codify men as being merely good for impregnation. You should at least try being consistent.


Lol. only elitists and pretenders speak in the third person. Were you quivering when you decided to insult me instead of responding to honest discourse? You have no idea how

low brow your comments have become. By the way, my IQ is 158, after reading your futile posts, it would seem to be about twice yours. Now stop quivering!

UK, Ireland / Oxford Polish bride 'heartbroken' over arrest - accusations of sham marriage [126]


Right, marriage in western societies is a sham. As to the divorce rate of 50%, it is so high because women initiate 75% of all divorces. The major reasons being, women get to keep the kids and few men do so men don't want divorces. Also, women can collect money in forms of alimony, child support and of course the state also enables them with various forms of aid. If men received fair treatment in courts than you'd see some changes to this.

Love / Polish men what is the worst thing a girl can do upon first impression? [360]

You're wrong; I'm not "a bit antifeminist", I'm very antifeminist. In previous threads I've more than proven the hypocritical nature of feminism as well as the antimale bashing so prevalent in feminist literature and deeds.

That's it for today as my daughter is taking me to see Denis Leary who is appearing at the Chicago Theatre tonight. I'm guessing that MareGaea probably prefers the immature "Vagina Monologues". :)

Love / Polish men what is the worst thing a girl can do upon first impression? [360]

Dutchie only insults herself, besides, my comments are retorts to initial insults.

Love / Polish men what is the worst thing a girl can do upon first impression? [360]


My,my,my, you really are too emotional. You're a female pretending to be a male aren't you?


Well now that depends on the animal doesn't it? We can outrun a snail (maybe you can't). This is true for all the rest of the attributes such as smell, hearing, etc. Different species have different strengths. Humans have the best one - our advanced brains.


Since humans dominate earth it would seem that we are the most successful creatures and not weak at all; but of course it takes logic to observe something so obvious.


I put a lot of stock in the brain. You seem to minimize it. Well, start using yours.


Nature's not doing a good job of it since there are almost 7 billion humans.


You are female aren't you?


Ah, there is the rub eh? I was right, you do believe that humans are no better than bats or any other living thing. Well, you and a skunk do have lots in common.....


It's not a question of feeling we're special; it's just fact. I've never seen an animal build a skyscraper or discuss abstract concepts; or muse about the universe, or invent complicated languages, or fly to the moon, or do a zillion things that demand specialness.


....and that's special too.


So girly of you to constantly mention male in a negative light. Is it that time of the month for you?


My ego landed many years ago. A big ego only enslaves. Now, I live my life with something additionally special, something other creatures don't have, it's called free will. But if you want to continue comparing yourself to a donkey, your free will allows you to do it.

Love / Polish men what is the worst thing a girl can do upon first impression? [360]


Nah, we can put all of earth's people in Texas and there still would be elbow room.


The "only difference"? Our brain is the whole ballgame and a nice piece of evolution it has been to get us to this point.


The arts, music, etc, make life liveable. Not many of us would want to bring children into the world without these things as well as luxuries. But my point with these almost god-like qualities which include virtues is that they separate us from all other species thus making us special. Of course many lefties don't think so and believe a crab is equal to a human being. Your simple definition regarding procreation at its base level suggests that you are one of those.


Stop projecting how you feel,unless of course you really have to.