UK, Ireland / The more subtle differences: Ireland/Britain v Poland [310]

Waving drivers to drive over the crossing when they stop to let someone cross.

Weighing bread in a shop.

Changing the glass for a new beer without asking (maybe I've just been in some dodgy pubs).

Writing and referring to people surname before given name in offical situations, so "Kowalski Jan".

Having to write parents' names on official forms.

Sitting in the car waiting for the police officer to come to you when they pull you over (although maybe that has changed in in Ireland/Britain in recent years)

History / Stolen Lives, a new controversial UK novel to legitimize Poland's communist goverment [4]

Looks good.


Have you read "Nine Lives" by Waldemar Lotnik?

serifbooks.co.uk/books/history/?book=27

UK, Ireland / Why Manchester rules over Warsaw :) [65]

Funny, working for a summer language school/camp this summer. Along with over 100 kids of over 15 nationalities, we had a special group of over 30 Japanese catholic schoolgirls (yes, double your fetishes!).

One day they went on a trip to Old Trafford and then to a major shopping centre. On returning, the Japanese team leaders complained to the course director that there had been no sightseeing tour, like in London, and they weren't shown anything cultural!

UK, Ireland / Why Manchester rules over Warsaw :) [65]

Manchester has a bigger gay quarter.

Manchester was one of only two cities in England (indeed, UK) which had a branch of the Guardian Angels patrolling it (those guys in red berets, like in NY... and it's true)

Manchester has a fantastic Chinese quarter with some of the best food imaginable.

Language / Undertsanding case structure (or 'you can't translate English directly into Polish') [10]


But the whole question of langauge is semantics. I'm not trying to be awkward, I'm showing you what my students come up against all the time when they study English.

Example.
My English is good, I speak English very good, I speak English very well.
My health is good, my health is well, my health is very well.
I feel good, I feel well, I feel very well.
I am good, I am well, I am very well.

Now, why do some of these constructions work but others don't? These are the kind of mistakes/questions a Polish student of English comes across.

Asking 'why?' isn't a problem, it's asking 'why?' using one language as a (superior) model. It's a bit like taking a sponge cake and a cheesecake and asking why they have different ingredients and why they need to be cooked differently.

Another thing to remember is the systems and classifications imposed on a language are done so after the language has developed. They are largely artificial. Example, why is the Polish word for 'man' a feminine word? It isn't... it is just that the classification of words ending in 'a' was deemed 'feminine' by a philosopher.

Why does Standard English not allow double negatives ("I've never done nothing to you") when almost every other language in Europe does? English used to have it (it was removed by philosphers!) I could say 'because two negs make a pos' but then why does it work in other languages (and in non-standard English)?


I made this point too! (slinks away to sulk)

Life / Jehova's witnesses in Poland - how to deal with them? [110]

I have, met an 80 year old couple in a Lemko mountain village whose family had converted in 1920's.

On a more day to day level, I either just say 'no thanks' or speak English and they give up. having a book on the occult can scare them away or mentioning you used to be a member but left. Apparently they are supposed to avoid such people.

Language / Undertsanding case structure (or 'you can't translate English directly into Polish') [10]


The thing is you are considering it from an English viewpoint. If you look at things from a Polish viewpoint you find similar problems with English.

"I'm on the train" maybe if you are in India or Africa, but in Europe you are inside a train.

"The plane takes off" takes what? where? it doesn't "put on" Can't imagine a 747 dancing to 'The Stripper" It doesn't 'take' anything.

But you could say "The plane takes itself into to the air"

Trying to make sense of it from an English point doesn't always work (or you have to stretch it). Also, the simple matter of rules of word order come into effect.

A Chinese guy once asked me why English has past tenses: "Why you say, 'I went to shop yesterday'" (note he didn't use 'do', it's a pointless word) "We say, 'I go to shop... I go to shop today, I go to shop yesterday, I go to shop tomorrow.'"

So, faced with such logic, how can I explain why it is important to have a past tense in English when a few million Chinese manage life and the Olympic Games without one?

OK, some of your examples

Jestem cały dzień zajęty. I’m busy the entire day.
here it has gone off a bit, what is wrong with saying’ jestem zajęty cały dzień

Because time phrases fit into a different structure in Polish. I mean, could you say "I am the whole day busy" or "I the whole day am busy"? You could, but it sounds weird.

Kupuję narzeczonemu prezent. I’m buying my fiancé a present. kupuję mój narzeczonemu prezent

Try "I bought my car for 10 pounds" or "I bought for ten pounds my car" or "I bought for my car ten pounds".

Zabrali mi telewizor. They took away my television set. why say away when there is no word for away?

You don't have to say 'away' in English either. But you would to emphasize the television going some distance, maybe never to return, rather than to the next room. The 'away' just shows it is to another place, possible unknown.

Rzuc czymś we mnie, moźe ci będzie lepiej. Throw something at me, maybe you’ll feel better. where is the word’ feel’ how do I know what it is supposed to know.

Well is it that you will be better or only feel that way (it might not be real)?

News / Does it seem to you that Russia loves Poland now? [35]

From what I hear from Polish friends, the Rssian people themselves seem to have no problem with Poland... it's the ruling administrations which have the problem.

Work / Moving to Poland (from the UK) to take a teaching position. Tips? [34]


Yeah, my RBS account is listed at my Polish address and they still occasionally block the card!

If you are thinking of staying long term, maybe inform any pensions/insurances you have.

Oh, get out of the British habit of saying 'thank you' at every cash transaction (until the end). If you say 'dziękuję' when you give a waitress/taxi driver etc money it basically means "keep the change".

Carry some loose change for public toilets.
Don't expect drivers to stop at zebras, and if one does, don't expect the next one too; he's too busy looking at the one who did stop and wondering why... while he drives across the crossing you are walking on.

If you have large baggage (suitcase, rucksack) you have to buy a ticket for it on the bus/tram.

Love / Polish Girl Doesn't Want To Touch. [240]

If she wasn't prepared to talk about it then for what does her opinion count?

UK, Ireland / Interest in Polish language grows in Britain [19]


Well, living in Shropshire, near the Welsh border, it was something I heard a few times when people dared speak Welsh in England, also heard it about Pakistanis, Indians etc. When I was studying in Belfast one colleague was teaching Protestants Irish. I areas like the Shankill it might have been surprising, but one of the reasons students gave was that they wanted to know if the Irish speakers were talking about them.


French, German and Spanish are widely taught but often don't start until secondary school (11 years old). I think another thing is that in Britain, at least until recently, it wasn't common to hear European languages being spoken on the street (at least in smaller towns etc). I lived in the Midlands in a new town and only met French people once in 20 years, so I didn't get to practice my French much. Likewise, 'foreign films' were usually on late at night because they were considered for arty types. Older generations are often a bit suspicious of subtitles. So you didn't even hear foreign languages much on TV until recently. My wife is amazed that I have hardly any knowledge of the French films she grew up watching in Poland, and have hardly any knowledge of European actors.

Love / Polish Girl Doesn't Want To Touch. [240]

Wow, we can be really nasty when we feel we've been spurned.

I bet he's too scared to come back now.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]

alternatively, go to UK and claim chid benefit there.

Love / Polish Girl Doesn't Want To Touch. [240]


How about just bringing in a friend and getting all hot and steamy with them. if she gets upset then just say, "Oh, you seemed to be making it clear you weren't interested'?

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


But is that not a good thing? If they had married there would be more failed marriages.

Personally I think divorce is often too easy. I was stunned when, at a class reunion, I met an old friend and commented that our other friend had just got married. The reply, with no trace of irony or joking was, "Congratulations, first or second?"

I also think the days of pressure to get married early and for economic reasons allow more relationships to develop. True, they might break up but I also think this is better than more broken marriages. I think marriage is a serious commitment, not just to be taken for social staus.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


A woman scorned is scarier than a piece of paper!


This is the point I would make. Some people do not need religion or social pressure to treat another person with respect.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]

That's wonderful. Thanks for sharing. However, there is one point which interests me particularly:


So it wasn't religion or social stigma it was the lady herself.

Now, why should this only happen in a married couple? In an unmarried couple there can be a similar fear of retribution.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


But isn't that the point? Today you could leave such a marriage but some would consider this a failure rather than a positive step.

I've known women who badly wanted to stay in their marriages, despite knowing the guy was around creating a new generation with half the girls in the pub. Why the heck did they want to stay? Lonliness, for one thing. So, would it have been a successful marriage if he had stayed?

Love / Polish Girl Doesn't Want To Touch. [240]


indeed, particularly as we don't know her side (neither does he, by all accounts).


But she might have the decency to tell him face to face. It's not as if he has (to our knowledge, anyway) said, "put out or get out".

There might be a number of reasons she is tensing up, and they might have nothing in the world to do with her being Polish.

Love / Polish Girl Doesn't Want To Touch. [240]


a lot quicker than if he went down.

The choice thing is my phrasing. This is his point. He has no choice because he doesn't want to offend her.

Funny, I'd have thought a hand on the knee was a bit more than holding hands.

Love / Polish Girl Doesn't Want To Touch. [240]


Yeah, he says he can put his hand on her knee but not hold hands. he then says he has a choice of which direction to move and upwards (crotchwards) would be too much too fast.

Mind you, if he did move his hand in that direction I'm sure she'd hold it quick enough.

Love / Polish Girl Doesn't Want To Touch. [240]

He is not, according to his own testimony. he actually says he does not want things to move so fast. He is talking about holding hands (maybe you think that's where babies come from) and a reciprocation of affection.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


But if it is miserable, staying together 'for the kids', abusive, unfaithful etc but still together, is it still a success? Do you see what i mean?

I have a relative who was married (and she's not one to take these things lightly and she wasn't a kid when she was married). It failed after some years. She later found another man, "shacked up" had kids and later got married and have been together around 30 years. Now has grandchildren.

Had she stayed in the other, bad marriage, then things might never have worked out the same, better way.


I agree with a lot of what you say, but surely one of the reasons people shack up is to see if they are compatible. Another point is that there have always been those who have had multiple marriages/divorces and those who had affairs etc, but stayed together. Often it was the richer in society who were able to divorce because their money put them above socieities morality.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


But what is your definition of 'succeed'?

It could also be argued that the breakdown of the social stigma allowed a greater honesty about the failures of marriage.

The thing is that there was always a social stigma to non-marriage (live in sin) even in civic society (tax laws, rights to property etc) so the only marriage worth having was a church one in a churchy society.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


It is not necessarily a bad thing in some cases, but it means the numbers are artifical. It's like saying a religion has the fewest cases of converts to other faiths when that religion preaches harsh punishments to those who leave it.

I mean, the catholic church places great stock in the chastity and non-marriage of priests (even slagging CofE for allowing it) and yet it doesn't stop SOME priests breaking their vows (although some parishoners don't want to hear about it).

Can you be sure that people do try to find answers rather than just live in misery? I've known a few people make a better go of it the second time around (married or not) with a new partner. Living in a dead marriage would have been a sentence for them.

Love / Polish Girl Doesn't Want To Touch. [240]


that would be 'touching' with added interest

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


Because of the social stigma of getting a divorce (which isn't acceptable in RC anyway). Just like RC is probably the only church with no drop-outs, because once a catholic always a catholic (even if you're lapsed).

UK, Ireland / Ed Miliband, new Labour leader, talking about Polish immigrants yesterday [62]


Undercutting prices/wages? Illegal? Not really, everyone does it in some way.
The thing is that there are levels of undercutting, like when a builder works for 25 an hour and someone does the job for 15. !5 an hour is a reasonable wage in UK, I believe. The companies just say "Accept the wage or we go to a temp agency and get a load of Polish workers cheaper". It's not necessarily the Polish workers who are undercutting, it's the companies using them.

Interesting point: In a local Polish gmina I heard of the local government advertising tenders for a contract. There is some restriction on taking the most expensive tender (supposedly to stop corruption). The trouble was that the cheapest one was the biggest bunch of cowboys going. Delays and bad workmenship, but a low price. Seems advertising a fair price for good work isn't the way to do business.

Love / Polish Girl Doesn't Want To Touch. [240]


So, culturally, if a Polish girl was in Poland and was living free in someone's flat, receiving cash and food, and (seemingly) making no offer to contribute to the running of the house, how long would it be deemed appropriate/acceptable?

I'm not talking of a trade-in for affection, I'm talking about not appearing able to appreciate the other person's feelings.


Quite right, but is it fair to anyone who shows affection to not, at least, explain that you are not ready for something yet... and may never be? OK, the girl might be afraid that she's suddenly found herself in a 'business arrangement' or she might be scared that she will lose his friendship, but surely she should take some action herself to reduce the tension, even if it is by asking a 3rd party to explain things.

UK, Ireland / Ed Miliband, new Labour leader, talking about Polish immigrants yesterday [62]

Why, when asked about immigration, is it always the "Polish" question which is answered? What about all the Africans and others who come into Britain, why don't they mention them?

Also, who is EM to say things like that about Polish workers when it was labour who had open door policy when only about 2 other countries in Europe had the same?