Life / Who is poor in Poland? [720]


That is true. My grandmother had a farm in a tiny village near a small town and a distant cousin and myself went there last summer. We met some people who were other distant cousins and they did indeed appear to have a much harder time than those in the bigger cities.

But, as we both agree, no one was starving. And things were much better than in the recent past. There is land there sold for vacation or retirement and I could see it as a nice place for that, but not for a career.

Life / Who is poor in Poland? [720]


And I also thought it had to do with the destruction of WWII and the need to build more apartments and houses.

When I went in 2000, my Polish bf and his family would have been multi-generational too. If we would have married, we would have lived there. I think his father made about $500 American dollars a month and his mother was a kindergarten teacher. They were not poor, but always looking for ways to earn more or do better. They had high hopes for their children.

Here in the States, I am multi-generational, too. My older son was doing well, but had an accident and lost his business and ability to walk for several years. He is able to walk now without crutches and a cane, but no longer can do what he once did to support himself. So, he and my two grandchildren live with me. In some ways, it is nice because we are all very close.

Life / Who is poor in Poland? [720]


Antek said he is NOT an employee or professor within any university, but is a consultant and provided a link as to what type of consultant work he does. It is a specialized career that involved hard work and knowledge. No where was it implied that he is a big shot. Those are your words.

I like and agree with his assessment of there being poor people in Poland, but it is an o.k. place to live. I grew up in a middle class family in the USA and it looks to me as though I could live there comfortably. I could not say the same thing for Mexico. Where ever I went, there were poor children begging. If you gave something to one, the others would flock around much like when you feed one seagull and more and more arrive. I never saw anything like that in Poland.

I have no idea what it is like to have grown up there as I was a child in New York City. However, in my late teens an early twenties I had a best friend who was born and raised in Poland and came to the USA in her late teens.

Her grandmother still lived in Poland (Gdańsk), and she often went back to visit during communist times. I vividly remember her stories about her grandmother waiting on long lines to have some meat and other nice things to offer when her grand daughter visited. I remember how we sent care packages to her former school friends who needed vitamin drops for their children and many other things. I heard about multi-generations sharing homes, the uncertainty of getting new furniture. Empty shops, Coca Cola under the bar for the right price, and how the famous Polish ham was exported and Poles had none.

My first trip to Poland was in 2000 and it was nothing like that and each year that I go, I see more and more improvement. So when Antek says there are poor, but it is an o.k. place to live, I believe him. When I attempted to defend Polish drivers.....he candidly admitted that Polish drivers were not the best. So, I feel he calls it like he sees it and is being as objective as he can be.

It is his opinion and seems valid to me. Everyone else is entitled to their opinions. Life can be hard for any of us anywhere. I really like reading about everyone's experiences and opinions, but I feel bad when someone who brings a lot to the forum is picked apart personally. I respect all those who feel opposite and realize that not everyone has had a bed of roses in Poland. But, it is so much better than it was before and that makes me feel happy.

History / What was it like in 1989+ in Poland when the Soviet house of cards fell? [237]


Thanks GW.....you know I am a powder puff, but not an airhead. :-)

No offense taken though, we all have our opinions.

History / What was it like in 1989+ in Poland when the Soviet house of cards fell? [237]

Well, I feel sorry for you. I really do. I never claimed to understand what it was like growing up in Poland. But, I can recognize a sincere person.

History / What was it like in 1989+ in Poland when the Soviet house of cards fell? [237]


No where in the story is he laughing at the Russians. He was feeling grateful for how much things had changed in Poland due to the end of Communism. Big difference. And whatever he has posted has been to show that while poor and rich are relative, things are much, much better than before. He is an optimist and attempting to encourage his nation to look on the bright side, to use the new found tools which were not available in Commie times.

I also heard from another musician in Poland who is severely disabled and in a wheelchair. His basic needs were met in Commie times, but now due to more freedoms, he found he could learn the guitar, play and sing, write stories. Now he is self-supporting about about to marry. A dream he never thought would happen.

Life / Who is poor in Poland? [720]

However, Harry, it is besides the fact as to the financial status of modern-day Poland.

Life / Who is poor in Poland? [720]

Thanks Monia.... :-)


Although that was brought up as a positive point to show how well Poland has done and how far it has come, it is kind of a side issue and does not relate to the topic, directly. The next thing we know there will be all kinds of posts about whether or not Poland collaborated. :-/

Ah....we posted together....thanks Antek for clearing up that matter.

Life / Who is poor in Poland? [720]

Excellent points, Antek. When I visited Poland, I never had the impression that I was in a country that was very poor. I could tell it was not as well off as Germany or the USA, but I could see that a good life was very possible. And I also noticed that even the poorer villagers seemed like they lived better than poor I've seen elsewhere. Of course this is just my impression.

The statistics below seem to support the conclusions that you have made above:

Rank Country Population below poverty line (%)
1 Zambia 86
2 Chad 80
3 Gaza Strip 80
4 Haiti 80
5 Liberia 80
6 Sierra Leone 70.2
7 Mozambique 70
8 Nigeria 70
9 Suriname 70
10 Swaziland 69
11 Burundi 68
12 Zimbabwe 68
13 Niger 63
14 Rwanda 60
15 Tajikistan 60
16 Comoros 60
17 Bolivia 60
18 Guatemala 56.2
19 Sao Tome and Principe 54
20 Senegal 54

Definition: National estimates of the percentage of the population falling below the poverty line are based on surveys of sub-groups, with the results weighted by the number of people in each group. Definitions of poverty vary considerably among nations. For example, rich nations generally employ more generous standards of poverty than poor nations.

Source: CIA World Factbook - Unless otherwise noted, information in this page is accurate as of January 1, 2009

Life / Observation of Polish drivers, by and English anthropologist. [94]

Thanks Gumishu. Maybe on my next trip to Poland I can try it out. :-)

Life / Observation of Polish drivers, by and English anthropologist. [94]


I was not sure how far it went because on that trip, I did not travel to Warsaw, I only knew that we headed in that direction and did not need to use the old road.

Is further construction planned?


Yes, that is what I was talking about. I covered my eyes a lot. lol

Life / Observation of Polish drivers, by and English anthropologist. [94]


I guess it goes back to another comment made earlier about how few cars there were in the late 1980's and early 1990's. Driving is relatively a new thing for many.

I do remember driving to Warsaw in 2000 and thinking how light the traffic was going into the city. I could see a big difference this past summer.

History / Poland's biggest historical blunder? [341]

Thanks Antek! And I note that you answered the original question with candor.


Got admit....I do get a few big laughs out of this place! :-D

Life / Observation of Polish drivers, by and English anthropologist. [94]


LOL That's a good one! I'm definitely no authority, but I have been to Poland for three visits of three weeks each and drove all around the country. I had heard all this stuff about what terrible drivers there were in Poland, but I never saw one accident.

On my last trip, I drove about 600 km within two weeks.

I must admit on my first trip, the lack of a passing lane and narrow shoulders on the road from Gdańsk to Warsaw made another car overtaking us a bit exciting. However there is a brand new road now from Gdańsk towards Warsaw and I was on it the week it opened in 2008. Very nice and no problems with drivers.

History / Poland's biggest historical blunder? [341]

I think this is a good place to insert some wisdom: "It is what it is." Squabbling about what happened and who has been tougher, smarter, more generous, more powerful or in better shape now versus then, etc. is so pointless. What will happen if everyone agrees it was this way or that way? Nothing.

From across the ocean, it looks like everybody needs each other to prosper. But yeah...it is understandable that the past still haunts. But it is the past. You know the saying, nothing can change the past, and all the worrying about the future cannot accomplish anything. Now is the only time we have where what we do makes a difference.

And now I will take my Plastic Polish/German American self and be quiet..... ;-)

Love / I need advice: divorce and my rights as a father in Poland [165]

I agree with you that the courts have become skewed. It seems to me that there is overcompensation going on in the western world for conditions that are still prevalent in some parts of the world. Women have not always had things to their advantage, but have often suffered. Sometimes paying with their lives. That being said, I would like to see the court system fair.

But, my point was less about the legal system, than who you choose and how you choose. It is hard for either sex to see the merits of someone who shows caring and love at the outset. That person can be perceived as boring and without other options. And it could be he or she might make the best partner.

The difficult person seems a challenge and unconsciously we tend to think that makes them more valuable. Often, the opposite is true.

Love / I need advice: divorce and my rights as a father in Poland [165]

I wish OP good luck. And to Zimmy, there are hurts on both sides of male/female relationships. It often seems like the generous soul picks the user type. Both sexes equally so.

It comes down to the chase, and the difficult one seeming like a better prize.

Love / I need advice: divorce and my rights as a father in Poland [165]

Not likely, but remotely possible that if you show her that you can stand your ground, she may realize she is losing something she really wants. It sounds like you have constantly given more because you may love more. Sometimes, women are more attracted to a man who can be nice to them, but keeps them from walking all over them.

She holds all the cards right now, but by standing your ground with her you may be able to bluff that you hold some cards too. Like a bit of indifference to her. She is used to you wanting to make it work, moving to Poland to satisfy her desire, paying for all her expenses, cooking so she can be free to take care of your child. And she knows you love your daughter. She thinks she can do anything she wants. And she may have the advantage of the law. Take the initiative.

Do what it takes to prevent the child from being taken away. Tell her you want the marriage to work, but it will be best to work on it here where you already have a good life and income. And that if the "bump" between you improves, then maybe all three of you can move to Poland. At this point, the stress of a move would make things worse.

Off-Topic / How do Polish people operate? what makes them tick? [103]


Not so sure this is done by Polish people in general. But, if there is truth to this, it is sad because Polish people have so much to offer.

What you refer to is a common coping technique used by insecure people. I see it here in the States, too. Maybe, instead of getting upset with the person, we can say something to put them at ease.

And if we are tempted to do the same thing and say something nasty in return, think of this simple illustration that I read somewhere, "If I snuff out your candle, my candle fails to shine any brighter."

Law / T-Mobile replaces Era [21]


Yes, you are right about that. Sometimes we have to move on whether we want to or not. I have a hard time discarding something that works perfectly fine for something newer. My good digital camera has an out-dated media card and I have a difficult time finding a lab to handle it. :-(

A dedicated camera will always be better than a mobile phone camera. Maybe one day they will equal a better camera, but for now I believe the lens is too limiting.

My other phone took not-so-great pictures and this one is night and day. It is as good as an inexpensive point and shoot which means I can get all those unexpected pictures that I would otherwise miss.

Law / T-Mobile replaces Era [21]

I am with T-Mobile and whenever I am in Poland it roams to ERA. I've been happy with T-Mobile, but a little concerned with what will happen when AT&T takes over. Perhaps, the deal will be shot down. There are those in America attempting to avoid any one cell phone provider becoming too large.


I just recently bought an older smart phone made by Nokia. It still has the old-fashioned keys for texting. It looks and operates a lot like my "dumb Nokia." It has Symbian software, but I believe in the future the viruses will be attacking the Droid phones and IPhones.

What made me get a smart phone from 2008 rather than a new touch screen model is the fact that this Nokia (N82) is considered to have one of the best cell phone cameras. Even compared to newer cameras with more pixels. It has the type of flash on many point and shoot cameras and it has a covered lens. On my recent vacation, I felt happy to have one device that could connect to the Internet without a data plan, and take pretty darned good pictures.

Nokia is cool because it is compatible in the USA and in Europe. No frequency problems. :-)

Life / IS Poland in danger of becoming the next multi cultural sink hole? [201]

It only became homogenous after WWII. Poland does have a tradition of being home to many people because of the Golden Freedoms. People all over Europe who were persecuted came to Poland because it was a tolerant country. French Huguenots, Jewish peoples and many others. There were those who came because of special skills that were needed, too. It was a mixed blessing for Poland and for those who came. But who could have known the future.

My own family roots are completely from Poland, yet I am only half Polish at most.

Love / American marrying Polish woman in Poland - Church problems [79]

Hi Coopermouse, I understand your situation, too. I used to work in a photography studio and we often took wedding pictures of couples who married on the beach, in the park or just a reception hall with a notary republic or justice. Often, they did not know the person who married them, it was just a civic ceremony. So, naturally, there would be no religious divorce document to show the priest in Poland.

I hope showing him the civil record of the marriage and explaining again that the divorce papers you have are the only ones since you did not have a church wedding, Catholic or any other.

History / Info on Poland in 1988 - researching a short film [21]

There is an excellent documentary called, "The Beats of Freedom." It was embedded somewhere on another thread. I can't find that thread, but I remembered the video, and found it on youtube. It was a wonderful look into the Polish punk and rock scene. It will add a lot to your understanding of what it was like to live in Poland at the end of the 80's.

youtube.com/watch?v=xsFAv5Nvn2c

Food / What's your favorite Polish beer? [870]

Kasztelan Jasne Petne because it tastes good, and is brewed in Sierpc near where my family originates.

carlsbergpolska.pl/Firma/historia/Pages/Historia.aspx

Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]


O.K. Good. Then I used it all right. Mainly I was attempting to move through crowded areas. But, if I bumped into someone who was not much older than me, I could just say, "sory." Unless I was so clumsy that I knocked the person over, and then I should use the standard, "przepraszam."

Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]


Wow...so I sounded out-of-touch the whole time I mumbled "przepraszam" on the bus, and in crowds. I am not for putting English words into Polish, but I have to admit that I find "Sory, sorki, sorka, sorcia" a whole lot easier to say.

Genealogy / Polish birth, death and marriage records in Russian scripts? [16]

Yes, Pat. I have about a hundred records in Russian! But of that number, only a handful that are very important to me. I went to the Polish Archives directly and in a team of researchers, we requested all the village books we could get our hands on in the time we had booked. We scanned them for our surnames. If any of us spotted a surname from one of the others, or our friends back in the States, we put in a request for a xerox copy. We did not make them directly, but came back the next day to pick them up. We had thousands of copies and divided them up between us before flying home.

So, some may not really pertain to me, but I have a nice sharp xerox of the original parish books! It was unbelievable. Books two hundreds year old books and just plunked down on the table for us to browse!

I have not been to a FHC for a long time. But, I also have some records from that source as well. To save time, I began writing to the Archives for extractions of records. They do a great job, but you get the Russian or Latin or whatever language the records are in, typed into Polish. Which is fine, because I can read it.

However, in the case of my grandfather, I found that his birth certificate showed he had a different surname as a baby in Poland than the one he used in America, and that he was apparently born to an unmarried woman who later married and had his brothers and sisters. Since that family name was my maiden name, I began to wonder if all the research I was doing was for nothing, if the name had no biological connection.

By flying to Poland and getting the parish books, I found what many records have.....a later added marginal note. I was so hoping.....

It turns out that the biological father recognized his son a year and half later, married the mother and then they had the other children. I had help on translating that one from two people, but no longer have a source of help. It also was hard to tell if he just adopted the baby, or was the father. But, he was the father.

I also have documents pertaining to my other grandfather, grandmother and great-grands and I'd love to see what is written on the originals. You know from the FHC records that you can tell what occupation they had, who were the witnesses, etc. In the extractions you only get the name, mother and father and perhaps where they lived.

So, I am stuck. But, I've been so immersed in genealogy and gone on so many trips that I am taking a break anyhow.

PS. An after-thought. The Russian records often say the individuals were illiterate. I know that all my grandparents and great-parents could read and write. So, I concluded that because they could read and write in Polish or German, but not Russian, they were classified as illiterate for that reason.

Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]


My grand daughter in first grade is already at this level. I believe she would whole-heartedly endorse these changes. ;-)

Genealogy / Polish birth, death and marriage records in Russian scripts? [16]


Yes, although I am not a Polish speaker, I can decipher the Polish texts quite well, so glad they stuck with the Latin alphabet. I learned just enough Russian, to recognize my surnames, but I am at a standstill, too.