History / State People in early Poland? [10]

I don't know. In English, the adjective comes before the noun. In Spanish, it comes after the noun. In Polish, both word orders are common. I wouldn't rely too much on machine translation.

News / What should Poland do to solve the population crisis? [101]


Oh, okay, I understand. Well, I hope that's not what happens.


That is true to a degree. There are many people, in Eastern Europe especially, who would have kids if they could, however. I'm for removing barriers and encouraging others to consider it.

And since many Europeans have collectively decided to forego having children, they will either collectively change their minds or face irreversible decline. It's up to them what road they take. And the best government can do is to encourage them in the right direction.


There is some truth in that, but, in Eastern Europe at least, people who cannot afford kids aren't necessarily drug addicts or alcoholics. A lot of them work long hours or can't make ends meet. Communist pro-family policies didn't produce that much pathology.


We need people, educated or uneducated, to have kids. Education is something the State can provide the kids with if they want it. A country can have all the doctors in the world, but if it doesn't have builders, there won't be any hospitals.

Some people need to think up new ideas, and others need to do the heavy lifting to put them into practice. I wouldn't be too prejudiced against the poorly educated. They can be valuable citizens too.

News / What should Poland do to solve the population crisis? [101]


Unlikely, but not impossible.


"Growing" European children sounds horrific, as though human beings were a crop. It sounds downright Orwellian. And realistically speaking, it's not going to happen, and money spent on third world surrogate mothers would be better spent on supporting natural mothers at home.


That's extreme and totalitarian.

I think all that is needed is that the government support parents so as to make children an attractive option.

It's no coincidence that Polish women who go abroad often turn into baby factories. Many men and women naturally want children. We don't need to force people to have children. We just need to take care of the things that stop people from fulfilling their natural drive to reproduce.

History / State People in early Poland? [10]

Where did you hear about these people?

Law / Tax rates after I open a "Spółka z ograniczoną odpowiedzialnością" (LTD)? [6]

sp. z o.o. - spółka z ograniczoną odpowiedzialnością (literally, "company with limited liability"), I believe.

Life / Heroes/heroines of Poland's pop culture [27]


Marek Perepeczko, an actor who played Janosik, a legendary Robin Hood-like figure based on a Slovak national hero.

Language / Quick question on Polish language fundamental [40]


I once heard a Polish mum correcting her child's speech, and she said something along the lines of "To jest błęd." The correct word is "błąd."

And I once got into an argument with my primary school teacher because she marked me down for spelling "a lot" as two separate words instead of one. Of course, she was well-meaning, but after consulting the dictionary, it turned out that I was right and she was wrong. I wasn't being a smart alec about it, but I still ended up in her bad books for the rest of the year.

The moral of the story is that you can't always trust people who should know better, because quite often they don't. This applies to native speakers vs language learners too. Learning a language is complicated enough, and it's always good to double-check to avoid having to learn complicated rules that are actually just another (well-meaning) person's whims and fancies.

Language / Quick question on Polish language fundamental [40]


That's interesting, because English makes a distinction here. "I went to the store" means you went there and came back, and "I have gone to the store" means that's where you've gone and you're still there. "Poszłam" can be interpreted both ways in Polish.

pam, I really can't see why anyone would say you were wrong for using "poszłam," because it should be clear from context which meaning you intend. "Byłam w sklepie," I guess, is a periphrastic way of getting the there-and-back meaning unambiguously, but it's just another way of getting the same meaning across. In English you could say "I've been to the store" to pretty much the same effect. Which form you use is really up to personal preference.

Maybe your friend corrected you in a very specific context, or maybe they have a very strong personal preference for a particular form to the point where alternatives sound unnatural to them. Without further context, I can't even suggest that your friend might be a grammar nazi, since "poszłam do sklepu" is perfectly-formed, grammatically correct Polish. The only situation I can imagine where you might be wrong for using "poszłam" is, as gumishu suggested, if you drove to the store, since "poszłam" has an implicit meaning of "I went by foot".

Regardless, "poszłam do sklepu" can express both "I went to the store" and "I have gone to the store," and it implies neither that you're still at the store nor that you're no longer there. It is not necessary to add anything else, because it just says that at some point you went to the store, and whether you're still there or not is left up to context. By all means, you can avoid using "poszłam" to keep your friend happy, but I don't think you need to extrapolate your friend's suggestions into an all-encompassing grammatical rule.


I think this might be the case here as well, although I can't say with certainty without the specific context in which you were corrected.


I stumbled on a subtitled Polish translation of a Russian pop song a few days ago,
youtube.com/watch?v=jnCZ0lqBoAM

and, tbh, the words are so similar in the two languages, that I can't see the point of translating it. A glossary of maybe a sum total of five or so words that were significantly different would have sufficed. That said, language more advanced than that used in a commercial pop song can be significantly different, but still not drastically so. The languages definitely seem far more similar than English is to its closest relatives, Flemish, Dutch and Afrikaans.

Language / Quick question on Polish language fundamental [40]


Not a native speaker, but I had a head start. Both my parents are bilingual and very good English speakers, and they didn't really try to teach me Polish and spoke a mix of English and Polish to me, so the semi-Polish language I acquired as a child was a sort of weird but interesting, bastardised Polish/English patois with 4 cases instead of 7 and mostly English vocabulary, unintelligible both to native Poles and to English speakers. And I would code-switch between that weird language and English.

When I came to Poland for the first time, I was in for a shock, since I could only understand fragments of what people were saying, so I started learning, and if I'm lucky, I can sometimes pass for a native speaker now. I have to say, though, the most rewarding experience I've had from learning Polish was not in Poland, but in Russia, talking with an oriental-looking man on the trans-Siberian somewhere around Irkutsk, when it dawned on me that Russian is just Polish with a weird alphabet and a funny accent, and that I can feel quite at home in the biggest country in the world, lol.


Of course, that's exactly right. Potatoes, pot-ah-toes :)

News / Highlights of passing year, in Poland (or elsewhere) which made hot discussions in PF [57]

I think it's still a massive faux pas. "Polish death camp" is an ambiguous term, especially since another common adjective to "death camp" is "Nazi", so it's a tough thing to swallow for "Polish" and "Nazi" to be used in the same context, in the same position, in the same phrase, but with different implications. You could also say "German death camps", but even I would avoid such language so as not to equate all Germans with Nazis. In any case, Poles quite understandibly object to being associated with death camps.

And just because someone is intelligent doesn't mean they are always right. It may make it more likely, but even that is not a given.

News / Failures of Poland and Tusk`s government [191]

Well, as they say, a broken clock is right twice a day. Who knows, it could be the year for the doomsayers.

There was once a man who proclaimed the end of "boom and bust" in a not-too-faraway land, and hardly had a year passed after he made that statement that a decade of uninterrupted boom did eventually turn to bust.

News / Today's release of UK govt papers under the 30 year rule - JPII and the US look bad [18]


Intelligence doesn't always correlate with wisdom :P


Yeah, after the British government eased up on the religious repression, Catholics gradually became quite a mainstream religious minority. In the 19th Century, a large part of Anglicanism distanced itself from the Protestant tradition and shifted to Anglo-Catholicism, so for a time, the doctrinal difference between the two was miniscule. With secularisation, they drifted apart again, with Anglicanism following modern trends and becoming increasingly fragmented, and Catholicism trying to stick to its guns, but both have declined to the point that they're not relevant anymore, and nobody cares enough to be prejudiced.

History / Ukrainian-occupied Eastern Poland [135]


Well, what would the basis of those rights be? If it is the historical ethnic composition or cultural contributions in the form of historical landmarks and such like, then sure, Poland has territorial claims, but making, let alone asserting such claims is messy business.

Historically, the boundaries between people of various ethnicities were quite blurry before the 20th Century, so it's not at all clear-cut. And based on the above criteria, sure, Poland would have a claim over at least some territories currently belonging to Lithuania, Belarus and the Ukraine, but Hungary would also have potential claims over Romania and Slovakia, Russia over Ukrainian Crimea, Germany over Russia's Kaliningrad oblast and Poland's western territories, and before we know it, we've got World War III on our hands.

I'm not saying the borders drawn up at the end of World War II were the best they could have been. But that's what we've got, and Poland ended up with a reasonable chunk of territory for its population. Sure, perhaps Poles would have preferred Poland's borders to have been further east and would have preferred Vilnius and Lvov over Szczecin and Wrocław, but Poland had little say on the matter because it lost the war and was lucky to have ended up with what it got.

UK, Ireland / Finding a polish language course in Northampton? [9]

You don't need to do a course to learn a language. You can do it in the comfort of your own home.

Have you learnt a language before? What languages do you speak?

History / Ukrainian-occupied Eastern Poland [135]

Ironside, have you thought about the practicalities of restoring the old political boundaries? What would you do with the resident Lithuanian, Belarusian and Ukrainian populations? Would you deport them à la Stalin? Would you allow them to stay and potentially rebel?

What benefits would that bring to Poland? How harmful would it be to Ukrainians, Belarusians and Lithuanians? What would international relations be like? Do you realise that many of those nations would ally with and seek protection against Poland's aggression from Mother Russia? Do you care? The Ukrainians, Belarusians and Lithuanians are the nations that for much of history voluntarily co-operated in making up the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Imagine if all those years ago, they allied with Russia instead. Does Poland need any more enemies?

History / Ukrainian-occupied Eastern Poland [135]

I was thinking that, lol.

Language / Polish and other West Slavonic languages and "pozor vlak" :) [48]

I have no problem understanding and speaking with Czechs either. But Slovak is 90% identical to Czech and sounds a bit more like Polish, so it doesn't surprise me that people find it easier.

History / Ukrainian-occupied Eastern Poland [135]

Unfortunately, the Sorbs are on the verge of complete assimilation now.


Ruthenians are non-Russian Eastern Slavs who frequently identify as Ukrainian. What point are you trying to make?

Language / Polish and other West Slavonic languages and "pozor vlak" :) [48]

Since this thread has been resurrected, I might as well add my input.


Slovak vocabulary is very close to Czech and it writes words in a very similar manner, but pronounces them a lot more like Polish. For example, "teplo" means "warm" in both Czech and Slovak. Czech pronounces "teplo" as "teplo", but in Slovak, it sounds like "tieplo" or "cieplo," which is very similar to Polish "ciepło."

Even though Ukrainian is an East Slavic language, Polish and Ukrainian share a lot of common vocabulary as a result of borrowing. East Slavic verb conjugation patterns are quite easy to understand, and even though it forms the past tense the East Slavic way (e.g. "my byli" (Russian) vs "byliśmy" (Polish) vs "byli jsme" (Czech)), this East Slavic feature has permeated many Polish dialects, and is easy to understand whether you're familiar with it or not. Ukrainian has also adopted some West Slavic grammatical features, such as using "ja maju" ("I have", "mam") instead of "u mienia jesć" (Russian).

So even though Czech and Polish have very similar vocabulary, they have diverged too far in pronunciation for easy intelligibility. And even though Ukrainian and Polish are from different branches of the Slavic family, they have converged in terms of grammar and vocabulary, most likely due to shared history.

History / Ukrainian-occupied Eastern Poland [135]

What good would going back to the pre-war border and going back to Breslau, Danzig and Stettin do now?

News / Failures of Poland and Tusk`s government [191]

So he says, "2013 will be better for Poland than what the pessimists think."

Well, probably, since some doomsayers predict catastrophe every year. I don't think it will be a catastrophe. But I doubt it will be better than 2012.

Polish bond prices are as much dependent on foreign and internal investors as they are on the NBP. If the Bank cuts rates, which is what central banks do when faced with a potential recession, then of course bond prices are going to go up, because the Bank will have to buy more of them to meet its interest rate target. In fact, the NBP can effectively control bond prices if it so chooses, because it is the issuer of the Polish national currency, and can issue as much as it wants to buy as many bonds as it pleases. Doing so is inflationary but useful in times of crisis, and Greece is f*cked because it doesn't have that option, having surrendered monetary sovereignty to the German-run ECB.

Unemployment could potentially go down if either a) there is continued economic growth or b) the government employs more people.

I'm sceptical about there being significant economic growth in Poland in 2013, but it's not out of the question. Even if there is little or no growth, however, it's entirely possible that unemployment will go down in the second half of the year, as Tusk predicted, especially if it goes up a lot beforehand, or if the government undertakes public works projects to boost the economy.

I hope Tusk is right, but I'm not so sure.

Language / Quick question on Polish language fundamental [40]


"I'm full because I have already eaten four pieces of cake."

Actually, that's really good. You could have said "zjadłam" ("I have eaten"), and most people would probably say it that way, but in this example "jadłam" actually isn't wrong.

If you're not sure, it's good to err on the side of the imperfective, because as opposed to the perfective, it has no emphasis on the completeness of an action, and can sometimes be interpreted both ways.

It seems that where English insists on a particular tense, Polish can be quite forgiving. "Jadłeś śniadanie?" and "Zjadłeś śniadanie?" are both correct and could both be understood as "Have you had breakfast?"

"Jadłeś śniadanie?" can also mean "Were you eating breakfast?" which is what you'd expect. And "Zjadłeś śniadanie?" could be understood to mean "Have you finished eating breakfast?".

Now we're getting into the realm of nuance and poetry :)

But, this isn't intended to confuse you. My point, and you've probably already figured it out, is that Polish tenses can be quite airy and vague and dependent on context. Now, that's great for you because even if you think you've made a mistake, there's a good chance that it's correct Polish anyway, with maybe a slightly different nuance or emphasis. And that's probably another reason why English tenses are hell for Polish speakers! There's not much room for error when it comes to producing natural-sounding English.

"Jestem pełna" is an anglicism, but it's meaning is clear, and I must have accidentally said "jestem pełny" hundreds of times. Don't worry too much about anglicisms. People seem to enjoy them. Just take note if they correct you. And I don't worry too much if I slip up, so you shouldn't either :)

Oh, and the way a native Pole might have phrased it is, "Już się najadłam, bo zjadłam cztery kawałki ciasta."

("I have already had my fill, because I have eaten four pieces of cake.")

History / Ukrainian-occupied Eastern Poland [135]

Yes, of course it does! Germans have lived in and contributed greatly to the culture of the cities that are now a part of Poland. Poland's borders are a compromise, and they are a compromise that I am willing to accept.

History / Ukrainian-occupied Eastern Poland [135]

TheOther

I think you missed the part where I said, "Historically, it's been on par with Kraków as one of the most important centres of Polish culture".

If that's not a legitimate reason, then Poland shouldn't exist at all and Poles should have just thrown their hands up and not bothered regaining independence.

History / Ukrainian-occupied Eastern Poland [135]


Of course there is. Historically, it's been on par with Kraków as one of the most important centres of Polish culture and a much-loved city by former Polish inhabitants. That's why losing it during the war was so painful to many Poles, more so than losing Vilnius, and that's why there continues to be a degree of nostalgia towards Lvov.

But I am happy for Lvov to remain Ukrainian now and forever.


I agree.


Lol, I wouldn't worry about such claims. I've only ever heard things like that on internet forums.


You're right.

And I thought that relations between Poles and Ukrainians were generally quite good. I can't think why they shouldn't be. Ukrainians and Poles are close historically, linguistically and culturally, and it would be in their common interests to co-operate.

Unfortunately, nowadays, they're being pulled in opposite directions, with Poland blindly following the West and Russia exerting ever-increasing influence on Ukraine.

History / Ukrainian-occupied Eastern Poland [135]


No. What I'm saying is that throughout its entire history, the inhabitants of Lvov and surrounding areas have been both Polish and Ukrainian. While it would be nice if it were a part of Poland or, at worst, a border city, that's not the way things have worked out.

I am prepared to accept the status quo because:
1) Ukrainians have historically been a part of Lvov too
2) Reclaiming the city would be hugely impractical
3) It has become the capital of Ukrainian culture, more so than Kiev, which is mostly Russian speaking.
4) Whereas reclaiming the city would be of modest benefit to Poland, it would be hugely destructive to Ukrainian language and culture.

I sympathise with Ukrainians, who have suffered Russian oppression for most of the last century, and while I recognise the legitimacy of Poland's claims to Lvov, I accept the status quo because executing that claim would be hugely oppressive and destructive to the Ukrainians, and I wouldn't want Poland to be the oppressor.


The Panorama Racławicka of Jan Styka and Wojciech Kossak is a Polish masterpiece, originally created in Lvov. In 1980, it was moved to Wrocław, where it is now one of the main tourist attractions.

Stanisław Ulam, mathematician
Kazimierz Wajda, actor
Adam Zagajewski, poet
Julian, Alfred Zachariewicz, architects
Gabriela Zapolska, writer
Włodzimierz Trzebiatowski, chemist, physicist, mathematician
Witold Taszycki, linguist
Fr Józef Teodorowicz, theologian, politician, patriot
Bartłomiej Józef, Szymon Zimorowicz, poets
Henryk Zbierzchowski, poet

Artists:
Franciszek Tepa
Karol Adwentowicz
Aleksander Bandrowski
Ewa Bandrowska-Turska
Wiktor Bregy
Waclaw Brzeziński
Jerzy Czaplicki
Jadwiga Dębicka
Adam Didur
Adam Dobosz
Bronisława Dowiakowska
Ignacy Dygas
Ferdynand Felman
Władysław Floryański
Jerzy Garda
Anna Gostyńska
Stefan Jaracz
Jan Kiepura
Janina Korolewicz-Waydowa
Jadwiga Lachowska
Tadeusz Leliwa-Kopystański (Enzo Leliva)
Józef Mann
Stanisław Mierzwiński
Helena Modrzejewska
Maria Mokrzycka
Eugeniusz Mossakowski
Aleksander Myszuga
Matylda Polińska-Lewicka
Ada Sari
Marcella Sembrich-Kochańska
Wanda Siemaszkowa
Ludwik Solski
Eugenia Strassern
Irena Trapszo
Janusz Warnecki
Wanda Wermińska
Helena Zboińska-Ruszkowska
Roman Żelazowski

News / WOSP Poland charity - is it value for money? [60]

No, you're not stupid. He hypocritically poses as a rebel, but he's totally in cahoots with Big Business and the post-communist establishment. Many people don't like him. The WOŚP charity isn't that bad, but it serves to legitimise people, organisations and ideological trends that aren't that good.

History / Ukrainian-occupied Eastern Poland [135]

There's no need for namecalling. We can all agree that Lvov has a very significant Polish history and has significant cultural importance for Poles in general.

Where we disagree is whether Stalin's border should stand. And each of us has his reasons.

I say yes, Stalin's border should stand. Ideally, assuming the loss of Poland's eastern territories to the USSR was inevitable, I would have liked Stalin to have made Lvov a border city and allowed Poles to continue living there, even if the city belonged to the USSR. But that's not what happened.

Ironside feels the city should be returned to Poland.

Pawian feels the city should remain Ukrainian.

I too am prepared to accept the status quo, in recognition of the fact that significant numbers of Ukrainians have also historically inhabited Lvov and the surrounding areas.

History / State People in early Poland? [10]

Never heard of them. "State people" doesn't tell me much. It sounds like it could be a tribe, or a profession, or a social position...

Is that a translation of a Polish term or a proper noun?

I vaguely recall that the Poles arose from various, related West Slavic tribes, one of which called themselves Polanie. Incidentally, there may have been an East Slavic tribe who went by the same name, and they became the Ukrainians. But my memory is fuzzy, so I can't vouch for the accuracy of this information. All I know is that at least in the tribal context, "state people" rings no bells.

Care to provide some more information?

Law / Driving a Poland's registered car in the EU ? [3]

I think it might be six months in the UK. Check the legislation of the country you intend to stay in.

I don't think it would be difficult to get away with staying longer than six months without registering.