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Posts by Pro_Svet_Spb  

Joined: 10 Apr 2010 / Male ♂
Last Post: 16 Jun 2011
Threads: Total: 1 / In This Archive: 1
Posts: Total: 41 / In This Archive: 38
From: Russia, St.Petersburg
Speaks Polish?: no

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Pro_Svet_Spb   
13 Jun 2011
History / Why did Russia attack Poland in WW2? [178]

Poland only attacked her weaker members (just like Germany and Russia).

Bigger fish eat smaller fish... i 100% agree

Again did Poland follow through on these actions? No.

They done something before and if that happened ones it could happen again:

On April, 25th, 1920 — Poland without declaration of war has attacked Russia which is bleeding profusely in civil war, and under the Riga contract has appropriated a part of the Ukrainian and Belorussian earths.

In October, 1920 the Polish armies have grasped Vilno and Vilensky area at Lithuania, inconsiderately having broken the Suvalksky pact.

P.S. I like all people, Russia and Poland should stay together with other eastern countries, but they let Americans to rule them....
Pro_Svet_Spb   
13 Jun 2011
History / What do Poles owe to Russians? [193]

What about what >?Could you specify? we own them a good kicking and a century or two of occupation

Poland was going to occupy NOT SIMPLY Russia, but also to destroy:

On September, 25th, 1938 in conversation with the American colleague the Polish ambassador in Paris Lukasevich has declared:

«Religious war between fascism and the Bolshevism begins, and in case of rendering of the help of Czechoslovakia by Soviet Union Poland is ready to war from the USSR shoulder to shoulder with Germany. The Polish government is assured that within three months Russian armies will be completely crushed also Russia won't represent more even similarity of the state».

I think we are quits.
Pro_Svet_Spb   
13 Jun 2011
History / WW2 - The other side. What USSR, also that the Polish government has made not to admit WW2 [45]

I think everything is clear :Minister for Foreign Affairs Molotov has well told about efforts of Soviet Union on a preservation of peace in Europe at session of the Supreme body of the USSR on August, 31st, 1939:

«You know that the English-ex-Soviet negotiations about the conclusion of the pact of mutual aid mind aggression in Europe have begun in April. However, the first offers of the English government, as it is known, were absolutely unacceptable. They ignored the basic preconditions of such negotiations — ignored a principle of reciprocity and equal obligations. Despite this, Soviet government hasn't refused negotiations and has in turn brought the offers... But these negotiations have encountered absolute obstacles... These negotiations have encountered that Poland which should guarantee in common England, France and the USSR, has refused the military help from Soviet Union. To overcome these objections of Poland and it was not possible. More than that, negotiations have shown that England and doesn't aspire to overcome these objections of Poland, and, on the contrary, supports them. It is clear that at such position of the Polish government and his main ally to business of rendering of the military help from Soviet Union on an aggression case, the English-ex-Soviet negotiations couldn't give good results. After that it became clear to us that the English-ex-Soviet negotiations are doomed to a failure.

What have shown negotiations with England and France?

The English-ex-Soviet negotiations have shown that the position of England and France is penetrated through by glaring contradictions. Judge.

On September, 25th, 1938 in conversation with the American colleague the Polish ambassador in Paris Lukasevich has declared:

«Religious war between fascism and the Bolshevism begins, and in case of rendering of the help of Czechoslovakia by Soviet Union Poland is ready to war from the USSR shoulder to shoulder with Germany. The Polish government is assured that within three months Russian armies will be completely crushed also Russia won't represent more even similarity of the state»

What are your opinions as a Russian when it comes to those Bolshevik 'leaders'?

My Grand-grandfather was a guard of the last Russian Tsar, by the way he was a half Polish, so what i can say...

I've never was a member of the communist party, and i hate that in 1st class there was portrait of Lenin in front of textbooks..

But was a good side of that time...no drugs, no desease, free education, appartments, good medicine, less crime....
Pro_Svet_Spb   
13 Jun 2011
History / What do Poles owe to Russians? [193]

Yeah Typical late commie approach. Definitely, we own them a good kicking and a century or two of occupation.

How about that?:

In December, 1938 in the report of 2nd (prospecting) department of a general staff of the Army Polish it was in plain terms specified:

«The partition of Russia underlies the Polish policy in the east... Therefore our possible position will be reduced to the following formula: who will take part in section. Poland shouldn't remain passive during this remarkable historical moment. The problem consists in that it is beforehand good to be prepared physically and spiritually... The Overall objective — easing and defeat of Russia» («Z dziejow stosunkow polsko-radzieckich. Studia i materialy», T.III. Warszawa, 1968, S. 262, 287).
Pro_Svet_Spb   
13 Jun 2011
History / WW2 - The other side. What USSR, also that the Polish government has made not to admit WW2 [45]

Soviet Union under Stalin was an evil empire

On April, 25th, 1920 — Poland without declaration of war has attacked Russia which is bleeding profusely in civil war, and under the Riga contract has appropriated a part of the Ukrainian and Belorussian earths.

In October, 1920 the Polish armies have grasped Vilno and Vilensky area at Lithuania, inconsiderately having broken the Suvalksky contract.

On May, 3rd, 1921 Poland a military way has begun capture of the Top Silesia. Allies have warned Berlin that intervention рейхсвера will mean war. As a result by October, 1921 to Poland the considerable part of the Top Silesia from 80 % of all industry and the basic part of coal stocks has departed.

In October, 1938 Poland has attacked Czechoslovakia, having snipped off at last Teshinsky area where lived 80 thousand Poles and 120 thousand Czechs. Thus the industrial potential of the grasped territory was the main acquisition of Poles: the enterprises located there gave in the end of 1938 almost half of pig-iron and a steel, made in Poland.

During all 20-30th years Poland didn't leave intentions to annex Lithuania. Have especially inspired Warsaw Hitler's aggressive actions in Austria in March of 1938. By the way, with Hitler's fascist mode the Polish management long time was in rather good fellowship, having concluded the non-aggression pact in 1934. When Hitler 1938 carried out on March, 11-12th annex Austria, Warsaw has tried to do the same with Lithuania (which called precisely «the Polish Austria»). On March, 15th, 1938 in Warsaw and Vilno have passed the Antilithuanian demonstrations under the general slogan «Forward on Kovno!» (To Kaunas — capital of Lithuania of that time). To Lithuania the ultimatum has been delivered, and to the Lithuanian border is concentrated over 100 thousand Polish armies. And only the position of the USSR and France has kept Poland from military intrusion.

The Poland does not looks very peaceful country at all ))

Making pacts with Stalin and believing in his good intentions was pure stupidity with tragic consequences

What else to do if everybody against you :

Poland constantly tried to grasp the free city of Danzig, arranged provocations, and only protests of Germany and a resolute position of England and France haven't allowed it to carry out the plans.

On December, 28th, 1938 just appointed the envoy of Poland in Iran J.Karsho-Sedlevsky has told in conversation with the adviser of embassy of Germany in Poland R.Shelija:

«The political prospect is clear for the European East. In some years Germany will be at war with Soviet Union... For Poland it is better to support absolutely definitely to the conflict Germany as territorial interests of Poland in the west and political ends of Poland in the east, first of all in Ukraine, can be provided only by in advance reached Polish-German agreement. He, Karsho-Sedlevsky, will subordinate the activity as the Polish envoy in Teheran to realization of this great east concept as it is necessary to convince and induce eventually also Persians and Afghans to play an active role in the future war vs USSR.

Recognition of Ribbentropa after a meeting with the Minister for Foreign Affairs of Poland Bekom on January, 26th, 1939: «Mr. Bek didn't hide that Poland applies for the Soviet Ukraine and on an exit to Black sea».

Or here the deputy minister of foreign affairs of Poland count Shembek directs on December, 10th, 1938 the instruction to the Polish ambassador in Moscow Grzhibovsky:

«It is extremely difficult to us to keep balance between Russia and Germany. Our relations with last completely are based on concept of the most responsible persons of the Third Reich which assert that in the future conflict between Germany and Russia Poland is the natural ally of Germany».

In December, 1938 in the report of 2nd (prospecting) department of a general staff of the Army Polish it was in plain terms specified:

«The partition of Russia underlies the Polish policy in the east... Therefore our possible position will be reduced to the following formula: who will take part in section. Poland shouldn't remain passive during this remarkable historical moment. The problem consists in that it is beforehand good to be prepared physically and spiritually... The Overall objective — easing and defeat of Russia» («Z dziejow stosunkow polsko-radzieckich. Studia i materialy», T.III. Warszawa, 1968, S. 262, 287)
Pro_Svet_Spb   
13 Jun 2011
History / WW2 - The other side. What USSR, also that the Polish government has made not to admit WW2 [45]

All that happens in relations between our states was a consequence of the accepted decisions of our heads of the states, and they not always are will of the people...

Here is some facts:

On March, 16th 1933 At the World conference on disarmament the British prime minister has suggested to allow Germany to double number of German army and on as much to reduce number of the French army.

1933 - Refusal of Poland to take part in the offered USSR "East pact". Poland and Germany have suggested the USSR to conclude such pact without France and Czechoslovakia but on such conditions the USSR has refused

January 1934 - Nonaggression pact between Germany and Poland.

1936 Introduction by Germany of armies in the Rhine area. Poland has supported this step. In the answer France has declared that has no more obligations to Warsaw. Great Britain has taken of a neutral position. Later Poland also has supported Anschluss Austria.

On October, 2nd
1938 Polish armies occupied Czech Teshin and territory adjoining to him . Thus, Poland together with Hitler's Germany participated in occupation and a partition of Czechoslovakia and input of the Soviet armies to Poland was not unique and not the first similar action of that time.

1939 British government has suggested Soviet Union to give unilateral obligations to neighboring countries. Obligations to the USSR it was not provided.

1940*) the French government under the agreement with the English government has offered the general M.Gamelenu and admiral F. Darlanu to develop the plan "Direct intrusion to caucasus". The Deputy The General staff of the Air Forces of France a gene. Berjoro: "from r thow Near East approach to Baku(USSR) … will begin Then it will develop in northern direction towards to the armies coming from Scandinavia and Finland to Moscow. [P.Stehlin. Temoignage pour l'Ristoire. Paris, 1964, p.215]

*) Certainly, the most part of these plans it has been caused by the Soviet-Finnish war. But it is interesting to compare them to statements during time of "strange war" (after an attack of Germany to Poland)

1942 London Polish government refuses to send the armies formed in territory of the USSR, on front and has deduced them to the Near East (it was just during Stalingrad fight).

It is obvious that the facts and the statements, similar the aforesaid, always try to trace foreign policy departments of all countries. And, most likely, appreciably then all it was known to a management of the USSR. Therefore there is nothing surprising in the followed list towards Germany. And to accuse Russia of it probably nevertheless hypocrisy. Or, the modern language, "display of double standards".

If have something to add from your side you are most welcome...

P.S. From my own: i like people from around the world, just government makes them look bad.

With Kind Regards,

From Russia.
Pro_Svet_Spb   
13 Jun 2011
History / Why did Russia attack Poland in WW2? [178]

On January, 12th
1940 Memorandum of the French ambassador with remarks concerning the breadboard model of the collection of the English-ex-Soviet negotiations prepared by the English party:
"As a result of reading of these documents the impression is made that from the very beginning and till the end of negotiations Russian government persistently aspired to giving to the discussed contract as much as possible universal and effective character.

It is represented that this aspiration of the Soviet government effectively to block all ways for the German aggression irrespectively from that, it is sincere or not, constantly faced the English-French restraint and obvious intention of two governments to limit sphere of Russian intervention … As a result in the planned collection will find the acknowledgement is glad those arguments who - is sincere or not - asserts that the government of the USSR was threw on the party of Germany only owing to fluctuations of England and France, their unwillingness unconditionally to act on the party of Moscow...

English "the Dark blue book" risks to cause thereby the extremely undesirable polemic in present conditions ". [PRO, FO, 371/24395, pp. 70-72.] [4]
On January, 18th
1940 Question on the publication "Dark blue book" is discussed at session of the British office. Halifax has spoken against her publication. As a result the office "has agreed that the offered publication" Dark blue book "about negotiations with the Soviet government in the summer of 1939 is represented now inexpedient". [PRO, FO, 371/24395, pp. 87] [4]

On January, 19th
1940 *) the French government under the agreement with the English government has offered the general M.Gamelenu and admiral F. Darlanu to develop the plan "Direct intrusion to caucasus". The Deputy нач. The General staff of the Air Forces of France a gene. Бержеро: "from r thow Near East approach to Baku … will begin Then it will develop in northern direction towards to the armies coming from Scandinavia and Finland to Moscow. [P.Stehlin. Temoignage pour l'Ristoire. Paris, 1964, p.215]

Spring
1940 *) the Plan "MA-6" (Great Britain) and "RIP" (France) about bombardment of Baku, Grozny and Batumi (intended to allocate 90-100 planes of type "Glenn Martin" and "Blenhejm" shown in 9 groups). ["Forses aeriennes francases", decembre 1961, p.842].

On March, 16th
1940 *) Doklad Gamelena about "war Conducting" (about intrusion into the Soviet Transcaucasia) [J.Bardoux. Journal d'un temoin de la troisieme. Paris. 1957. p.203-204]).

On March, 20th
1940 *) Meeting in Aleppo (Syria): by June 1940 building of 20 airdromes for performance of plans "MA-6" and "RIP" will be finished.
On April, 17th
1940 *) Vejgan (a clod. English forces in Syria and Lebanon) Gamelenu: "preparation of air blow will be finished by the end of June - to the beginning of July". [M.Weygand. Memoires. v.3. Paris, 1950, p.71].

Spring-summer
1942 London Polish government refuses to send the armies formed in territory of the USSR, on front and has deduced them to the Near East (it was just during Stalingrad fight).

• 1933 - Refusal of Poland to take part in the offered USSR "East pact". Poland and Germany have suggested the USSR to conclude such pact without France and Czechoslovakia but on such conditions the USSR has refused

• January 1934 - Nonaggression pact between Germany and Poland.

On March, 7th
1936 Introduction by Germany of armies in the Rhine area. Poland has supported this step. In the answer France has declared that has no more obligations to Warsaw. Great Britain has taken of a neutral position. Later Poland also has supported Anschluss Austria.

On October, 2nd
1938 Polish armies occupied Czech Teshin and territory adjoining to him (also [3]). Thus, Poland together with Hitlerite Germany participated in occupation and a partition of Czechoslovakia and input of the Soviet armies to Poland was not unique and not the first similar action of that time.

On April, 14th
1939 British government has suggested Soviet Union to give unilateral obligations to neighboring countries. Obligations to the USSR it was not provided.

1939 Soviet-Japanese conflict on the river the Halhin-goal. During the same time Great Britain concludes the contract with the Japanese government.
June
1939 Confidential negotiations of Great Britain with Germany on sections of spheres of influence. Germany was offered Russia and China.
October
1939 Consideration by committee of chiefs of staffs of Great Britain of a question "About positive and announcement negative sides Great Britain wars of Russia (it even before the Finnish war!).

It is obvious that the facts and the statements, similar the aforesaid, always try to trace foreign policy departments of all countries. And, most likely, appreciably then all it was known to a management of the USSR. Therefore there is nothing surprising in the followed list towards Germany. And to accuse Russia of it probably nevertheless hypocrisy. Or, the modern language, "display of double standards".

If Russia was with the Allies why would they back stab Poland.Was it for revenge or Coal.

On September, 30th, 1938 Warsaw has sent official inquiry to Berlin: whether she can count on a benevolent position of Germany if as a result of forthcoming intrusion of the Polish armies into Czechoslovakia there will be a confrontation between Poland and the USSR?

It means that Poland was already ready to begin war with the USSR at any moment!

So whom at that point in time to Stalin followed be afraid more — Poland or Germany?
Pro_Svet_Spb   
10 Apr 2010
News / New Polish president and Russian/American relations [37]

Can Poland not stand and have relations with both in your opinion?

In this tough world you can't be an ALIEN (NATO or Warsaw pact as example)

As far as i know Poland did not get many benefits after join EU?