UK, Ireland / Britain... What the Poles did for us. [444]


So you're a Briton though ;-)
Yes they did, of course but after 8.05.1945 not as much as Americans.

And as you've mentioned Soviets.
They started war together with Nazis. You've forgotten?
I have respect for brave soldiers, but look they were from the evil empire. And in 1945 they weren't fighting for Soviet independence (ironic attribute for all these nations in Soviet captivity) but for new dependencies.


Illusive. Comparing to former power.

UK, Ireland / Britain... What the Poles did for us. [444]

It was wrong deed to act against your Polish allies who fought long, hard and bravely to save their independence.

Britain lost 2 times: in WW1 and WW2. Each time they tried to win the war, they needed help from younger cousins across the Big Pond. And each time they power diminished while American augmented.

If you're an American, I understand your line about Japan. Americans fought really bravely. Respect. Anyway, my comment was about Britons and their peace from Soviets, not about Americans and Japans.

UK, Ireland / Britain... What the Poles did for us. [444]

Come on, Jonni. UK bought a peace and some semblance of Imperial reconstruction. However wrong deeds give bitter fruits. And Britons lost his Empire.

UK, Ireland / Britain... What the Poles did for us. [444]


So it was sold cheaply, wasn't it?

History / just before the war the Polish/Ukrainian szlachta learned Ukrainian [243]

Your citation patchwork became unreadable.
Klaczkiwśkij vel Kłym Sawur. The one source you probably mean were testimonials of Jurij Stelmaszczuk, one of his subordinates, chief of Turiw Group of UPA.

But it isn't only one source. Klaczkiwśkij was a chief of military organization in Volhynia and this organization made genocide. So who's responsible? Martians?

During the the 3rd OUN Congress in Zołota Swoboda on 21-25.08.1943
Mykoła £ebed and Mychajło Stepaniak criticized UPA tactics in Volhynia describing anti-Polish attacks as bandit actions. However a group of OUN activists defended Kłym Sawur demanding to repeat such tactics in Galicia. Most active defenders of Klaczkiwśkij were: "Horbenko", "Hałyna", "Iwaniw" oraz Szuchewycz (according to Stepaniak).

Don't append yourself to the list of defenders of killer.

Life / What is it with the Polish love of antibiotics? And Why do Poles get ill more? [40]


Somebody can call it a fashion. But I was instructed in this subject by one of doctors. It's just quicker. They want to save some time, because they allot only few minutes to diagnose a patient.

But you're right, old Poles (age of 60+) like to go to a doctor. Newer generations has no time to do it. However it is always a matter of personal attitude. In my family we do not use antibiotics for colds and flues and trying to be healthy with some success.

I was struck how different are Britons' and Poles' behaviours in dressing. Britons just toughen their children up from small, Poles are always well-packed as onion with all these shirts, sweaters, caps and scarfs.

Life / You are Polish if... [433]


OK, You're right. I was wrong, even while kidding. You are definitely impolite.
And as far as modesty concerned, maybe you are modest in your real life. But something makes you show up here on PF and expose how brave you're in fighting with Polish (or maybe also French, German) infirmities.

History / just before the war the Polish/Ukrainian szlachta learned Ukrainian [243]

So let's analyze this war criminals parade (haven't you know any more appropriate to be you hero):

Roman Szuchewycz - vice-chief of Nachtigall Batallion, and next Schutzmanschaft Batallions merited in beating Jews, burning down synagogues and terrorizing Belorussian and Polish villagers, he accepted and defended methods of Kliaczkiwśkij when he was attacked by some more civilized members of OUN central authorities. And as a chief of UPA gave an order to expel or liquidate Poles from 'our [Ukrainian] lands'.

Dmytro Kliaczkiwśkij 'Kłym Sawur' - the worst from your list; the exact genocide maker - chief of the UPA-North group, responsible for the great carnage of Polish villagers or Volhynia in 1943-44; his subordinates and incited Ukrainian peasants killed 50-60 thousand Polish neighbors and in effect made fled the rest cleaning this area totally from Polish 'element'. From 1150 villages and colonies with 31.000 Polish farms Ukrainians under UPA totally destroyed 1048 settlements with 26 167 farms. From 252 churches and chapels 103 were burned down. They even wanted to wipe down any sign of Polish presence there. Let's cite an UPA order from February 1944: "7a. destroy all walls of churches and another Polish cult sites, b. cut down all trees near the [burned down earlier] buildings, so there will be no sign there were living somebody..."

History / just before the war the Polish/Ukrainian szlachta learned Ukrainian [243]


And Polish fighters were right, Nathan. The only mistake is the name of the military unit.
It was so called 'Volhynian Legion' or 'Ukrainian Self-defense Legion' known officially in German sources as '31. Schutzmannschafts-Bataillon der SD'.

They were fighting from 15 to 23.09.1944 against Warsaw Uprising fighters from "Radosław" & "Kryska" Units.

So your nationals have their part in Warsaw Uprising.

History / just before the war the Polish/Ukrainian szlachta learned Ukrainian [243]


And you forgot to mention that Bandera was a chief of the terrorist group which made attempt on Polish Home Affairs Minister, Bolesław Pieracki and kill him in the very centre of Warsaw (Foksal Street). It was on 15.06.1934 and was the main trigger to open the Bereza internment camp.


Wołyń churches where orthodox, not Uniate, you should know this.

History / Does Poland deserve credit for the 1989 Revolution? [87]


Don't forget late Ronald Reagan, who pressed Soviets economically with arms race in which they simply can't afford to participate. They had to remit. Once the screw was unscrewed the domino had to collapse and collapsed.


Once again you've misunderstood, BB.
I respect only whom I know for his works, fights, achievements - errors not, rather braveness to try. I simply don't know who were these prehistoric guys who were my 100th great-grandparents. I don't like to pretend I know, just as you entertaining yourself with. And this is what I think as meaningless and obscure: reaching unreachable and making history from prehistory.

I know my family roots since XVIIIth century and have more than 100 persons in my family tree. I'm proud of it and what they did. You're right they deserve it. I know where some of them fought and with whom, and why the other didn't fought anyway, and what they build and lost in the Eastern Borderlands.

But I know my limits. I'm proud of Kazania Świętokrzyskie, Rey, Kochanowski, Chodkiewicz, Żółkiewski, Zamoyski, Sobieski, even while the most of my family name bearers wasn't even in Poland while they were alive. I'm proud of the big state Poles managed to built, and I'm ashamed how they ended it. Enough?

History / Does Poland deserve credit for the 1989 Revolution? [87]


In any case. It's because sometimes the reason of pride is so distant, meaningless and obscure and moreover sensitive to revolutions in research. I just worry about you in case you're not so Germanic German. By the way, have you checked your DNA?

Yes, I am a modestly proud Pole. But I'm not looking for funny Sarmatians, Ants, Sklavinoi, Polans to define myself.


And who the hell is Arborrghini? Certainly I'm not a Lamborghini. Since there were so many ethnic influxes to Polish ethnos (and outflows from as well), so I feel no connection with these ancient unknown tribes. If you consider equal nation and language group, so you deeply wrong, as BB is.

Life / You are Polish if... [433]


How polite and modest you're ;-)


You've forgotten Martians and rainbow alliance...

History / just before the war the Polish/Ukrainian szlachta learned Ukrainian [243]


You've forgotten of course Uniate Church which probably saved Ukrainians from being totally russified.

Genealogy / If your ancestors were in the "Wehrmacht"... [217]


OK. Nathan, I've read this essay by Venclova. But still didn't understand why you can consider Mickiewicz so mediocre personality.

History / Does Poland deserve credit for the 1989 Revolution? [87]


You still don't understand. I just dare to doubt if you're a Germanic German ;-) It would be so funny with all your pride and helmets high.

And as far as you're talking about Poles, I'm a Pole, but not a Slav.

History / Does Poland deserve credit for the 1989 Revolution? [87]


Uh, Solidarity?


Maybe Poles don't like to be treated as men from nowhere.


Geez! How boring it must be. 4 hours a week about Aborigines. What you're doing at that time? Trying to play didgeridoo?


So your family was here in Silesia in 1st century. Are you sure, BB? Or maybe you have a Slavic blood (or haplogroup, subclad - or how this DNA researchers call it) and your ancestor was just culturally assimilated. What about it, uh?

If you pretend to say that Silings along with Vandals, Rugii, Langobards, Swevi, Angles, Sax were Germans, you should consult it with Englishmen, Dutch, Belgians, Scandinavians and maybe even with Italians and Spanish. Big appetite you have. But you know, you are going so deeep of nowhere. What about if some new researches uncover the complete another story.

Genealogy / Szewczyk from Wara, Poland [6]

Wara is in Podkarpackie Voivodship
maps.google.pl/maps?q=Wara&ie=UTF8&hl=pl&hq=&hnear=Wara,+Brzozowski,+Podkarpackie&ll=49.758203,22.181396&spn=0.079623,0.219727&z=12

There are plenty of Szewczyks now in Poland: 41864 you can see where they live.

It could be difficult to find out which one is from your family.

Maybe you can start with asking this one:
Szew-Pol. PHU. Szewczyk J.
36-245 Wara 227
woj. podkarpackie powiat brzozowski gmina Nozdrzec
TEL (13) 4398834

And with this parish:
Parafia rzymskokatolicka
36-245 Wara 252
woj. podkarpackie powiat brzozowski gmina Nozdrzec
TEL (13) 4398530

Work / Average monthly salary in Poland is around 1000 PLN (few hundred bucks). [387]

There are some data about mean wage:


Median of month pay was 3 425 gross.
Half of employees were between 2 300 and 5 500 PLN gross.

But remember gross is not fully loaded - you must add ca 20% ZUS.
And on the other hand: from 5500 gross you have only ca 3500 net.

History / just before the war the Polish/Ukrainian szlachta learned Ukrainian [243]


Could you point your source for this statement.


In fact there were no Ukrainian big landowners. The land parcelled for veterans was state owned. And some Ukrainians received parcels also. Ukrainian nationalists blamed the government that the proportions of land granted to Poles & Ukrainians were not adequate to the local ethnic composition.

Wołyń had the administration which was most friendly to Ukrainians. Voyevod Józewski had very good relations with local Ukrainians, supported schools and institutions. However his work wasn't well received by nationalist hard-liners from Eastern Galicia. They wanted tensions and unrest to build clear frontier between two societies. They provoked tensions there, there were terrorist attacks. And nationalists succeeded. Police started retaliation - so called pacifications. And many Poles and Ukrainians started to look angrily at each other.

UK, Ireland / Britain... What the Poles did for us. [444]


What a funny logic.
Polish Mikołajczyk was maybe recklessly optimistic or he was forced by the Ally. Anyway he was a brave man.
He was in fact framed in to this position by English-American policy to hide the fact, that Poland was left to Soviets. To hide the fact and to perform a 'democracy' show in which hundreds of his party members (PSL) were killed and thousand were imprisoned, vote count forged, civilians terrorized by Soviet secret policy...

The only field where Britons fulfilled their ally obligations was to take Mikołajczyk away from this Soviet paradise.


Harry you're wrong again. Piłsudski was a Head of State (14.11.1918-11.12.1922) when he said "Gentlemen I'm very sorry" on 15.05.1921. Will it be always that with you, factoid maker. I'm trying to respect your opinions, but you're ruining it with your fact manipulations.


So you think better make blah blah than nothing. But blah blah didn't work with such guys as Soviets.

UK, Ireland / Britain... What the Poles did for us. [444]

What do you mean, Ksysia?

History / just before the war the Polish/Ukrainian szlachta learned Ukrainian [243]


Yes, indeed it was in Wołyń Voyevodship.

It wasn't true that Borderland noblemen learn Ukrainian just before the war. They spoke it. Of course there were a few incomers (wifes, husbands, buyers). My family is from the very pre-war border on Zbrucz from very mixed district, one of those 3 in Podolia where there was slightly more Poles than Ukrainians: Skałat, Tarnopol & Trembowla.

My grandfather spoke Polish, Ukrainian and some German & Yiddish. He wasn't however a noblemen but a burgher. Anyway he knew many landowners there, small and bigger ones. Everybody spoke Ukrainian at least to be understood in everyday business.

In fact there were some style or fashion to knew Ukrainian or Ruthenian (as it was called since the national Ukrainian identity wasn't wholly widespread) language, music and folk craftsmanship.

UK, Ireland / Britain... What the Poles did for us. [444]


The Malvines. You've meant 3000 Scots and millions of sheep.
If only UK wants to fight for it. It's our ally. Otherwise stop the alliance.
The ally could do stupid things, but since he's our ally, we must stand with him and fight.
We all tested it in Iraq and Afghanistan.

UK, Ireland / Britain... What the Poles did for us. [444]

OK. Zaliznobokij. Don't cite me. And I won't either. Peace out!

UK, Ireland / Britain... What the Poles did for us. [444]

Thanks, Harry for the link hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1946/jun/05/foreign-affairs
And you have there:
Churchill: ...Let me be quite honest. We have not invited the Navy and the Army...

Yes, it's taken out from context, precisely how you used to do it, but still true and taken from this arrogant looser, Churchill.

And one again paragraph (very tasty):
I believe it is a fact, to put it mildly, that there is as much freedom in Spain under General Franco's reactionary regime- and actually a good deal more security and happiness for ordinary folk-as there is in Poland at the present time.

What a believer - he exactly knew it was far more worse in Poland.

UK, Ireland / Britain... What the Poles did for us. [444]


Damn! So you are one of this strong in mouth not in mind faggots who sees a woman in every man.

UK, Ireland / Britain... What the Poles did for us. [444]


Think before you shoot.
Are you even real or just an avatar of some polonophobe (maybe Harry) invented to illustrate Polish impetuosity, groundlessness, sabre-shaking.

Maybe you're just warming up to fight on a stadium or better in its proximity.
You should know you have the exact mirror shape just around the border. He's name is Zaliznobokij. you can try to beat him, and I even won't cheer you..

..and in any case him, anyway.

UK, Ireland / Britain... What the Poles did for us. [444]


Soviet puppets and mostly criminals.


They had inherited power from last elected government and held insignia. The same as most of governments in exile.

UK, Ireland / Britain... What the Poles did for us. [444]


It's difficult to explain cause I don't know who you are. If you're an Irish, I do understand why you didn't.

But in case you're a proud Englishman you could recall Wales, Scotland, Ireland (yes), not forgetting about Jersey, Guernsey et al., Gibraltar, Malta, Cyprus, Ionian Is., half of Africa, Arabian Coast (I'd prefer to omit Palestine for security reasons), 3 Indias, Ceylon, Burma, Malayas, Hong-Kong, King-Kong and some thousand isles more.

Poles were more docile. They just wanted to build some houses, sow some wheat and sell it to lackland Britons and Dutch.