USA, Canada / Only one county in the USA has more Polish-Americans than any other group! [38]


Polish cannot be learned passively, hence why you have expats living in Poland for 10 years and can't speak a lick.

Language / Is Polish an easy language to learn and is there a way of learning it easily? [105]


another point worth making.

i'd venture to say that a lot of those that say "Polish isn't any harder than any other language" or "it's all relative" or whatever else, it's because they don't know how complex the language really is. if you knew polish, meaning all the in's and out's of the grammar and all its complexities, and spoke it without butchering it, you'd have a different perspective. most polish language learners go through a similar experience. in the beginning, they think it's like any other language just with really funny sounding words with lots of sh's and ch's, and then 4 weeks later when the teacher starts throwing kogo/czego and kim/czym into the lesson, they give up soon after.

just to list some examples:

you only use infinitive forms when making future tense, such as "bede isc", "bedziemy brac", etc.

your numerical conjugations are all wrong. for example: "dwa kobiety", "dwa mezczyzni", "nie mam jeden samochod", etc.

no concept of komu/czemu. for example, "powiedzialem moj przyjaciol".

if that's your Polish, you don't speak Polish and have no concept of the language and how difficult it really is.

Language / Is Polish an easy language to learn and is there a way of learning it easily? [105]


and here's the facts: if you had a French husband and lived in France, an Italian husband and lived in Italy, a Spanish husband and lived in Spain, Portuguese, German, on and on.....you'd be fluent. Poland? Yeah, 11 years and you're not even intermediate? Expected, because Polish is WAY harder. Period.

Language / Is Polish an easy language to learn and is there a way of learning it easily? [105]

"Well, Mandarin Chinese is an 'easy' language to your standards then, given that its grammar is even simpler than in English. "

I knew an American that lived in China for about 7-8 months and thought Chinese was quite easy to learn to speak. He moved to Poland right after and completely gave up on Polish almost immediately. Sucked for him because his wife was Polish and he thought once they moved from China to Poland he'd pick it up just the same but like most people, it was an epic fail. He used to tell me all the time how much easier Chinese was and although i've never studied Chinese, i believe him.

Language / Is Polish an easy language to learn and is there a way of learning it easily? [105]


hey thanks :)


absolutely. i don't see how anyone could effectively argue that this is untrue. polish is a language that fights you the whole way, as if its main objective is to keep you saying things incorrectly, like a carnival game. english has no declinations, no gender, and regarding verbs, hell once you learn I, they, he/she/it, we, you're pretty much done. throw a new polish verb even at an intermediate polish learner and they literally have to "study" it in order to get comfortable using it in all its forms.

Language / Is Polish an easy language to learn and is there a way of learning it easily? [105]


as if i wasn't doing that simultaneously? i lived in Poland for 4 years and during that time, i had plenty of immersion. i watched polish movies, watched the news, spoke with polish friends, translated texts, read polish news websites....i did it all, man. i just chose to study grammar hard to make sure that as i learned more phrases and vocab, i didn't get caught butchering said phrases and vocab with sloppy, really "foreigner" sounding grammar. it's not how I roll :)

you always have a better, longer lasting home with a solid foundation underneath you. i look at language learning similarly.

Language / Is Polish an easy language to learn and is there a way of learning it easily? [105]


yes.

i've lost a little vocab since i moved back to the states but my wife is polish so i still have constant exposure. my grammar is my strongest suit. it's pretty much all i studied during my first 2 years in country because i quickly recognized how crucial it is to having meaningful conversation. my vocab is probably my weakest suit because like i said, i concentrated far more on grammar. i fish for words, not conjugations.

when i sit down with a 20 something and talk about my day, i can do it comfortably but i have limitations like any language learner. my polish will improve exponentially in the near future because my wife and I (she's Polish...and no, not PolAm, she's born and raised in Poland) will be raising our children with polish so i expect to learn most of what i lack through osmosis in the coming years. i really look forward to it because i've put SO much work into learning this language and it will be nice to finally have the finished product.

Language / Is Polish an easy language to learn and is there a way of learning it easily? [105]


in most cases, it is due to not knowing Polish cases. if the constant declinations and conversions and gender differences don't start to sound natural to you, you're always going to struggle with comprehension.

the single best way to learn Polish is to hammer.....and I mean hammer the grammar. don't start going through the dictionary learning random verbs you'll never use on the regular if you can't even use basic words and conjugate them accordingly so you can have a conversation with them. "knowing" a word in Polish takes on a different meaning than most languages. who cares if you know how to say "car" or "building" or "house" in Polish....do you know how to use them in all their forms, including being able to quantify 1, 2, and 5+ of them? that's the difference.

additionally, you will forever sound like an amateur in Polish if your grammar is not solid. accent is one thing but if every other word out of your mouth is spoken incorrectly, nobody wants to listen to you.

Polish is in a class of its own and if you want to really learn it, you're years away from being even decent at it.

Being able to turn on the TV in Poland and understand everything on a news station? A decade or more, in country + constant studying. this isn't to discourage, simply to tell it like it is. Polish is like one big monster that takes what will feel like forever to finally slay.

Language / Is Polish an easy language to learn and is there a way of learning it easily? [105]


interesting.....because i've yet to meet someone who wants to learn a language difficultly.

Work / Job at HP in Wroclaw, what salary should I expect and Is It negotiable? [29]


I taught English for years inside that corporate office as well as having them come to my schools for lessons. Every single one of those employees seemed unhappy with their salaries and general work assignments. Every one of them had a minimum of a Master's degree, spoke Polish + English + 1 additional language, and their take home pay was a pittance. The 3K gross per month you referenced to in your OP sounds about right because I don't think these people even cleared 2K.

We all hated teaching there because it was full of miserable workers.

Now....Google in Wroclaw, THAT was fun. What an amazing difference in corporate culture and employee moral. I'd shoot for Google instead.

USA, Canada / Would like to move back to Poland from New York after living in USA for 20 years. [155]

Which, if he was willing to respond to my question, would prove more of the same.

I'm prrrrretty sure "Madison Area" is Madison, NJ. I am born and raised in NJ, northern NJ to be exact, and know Madison quite well. Everyone in NJ knows that if you live in Madison, chances are you're a doctor, lawyer, banker, high level executive or some sort of entrepreneur that makes a substantial amount of cabbage. I had a Google at the average house price in Madison in 2011, it's around $800,000. An upper class town with upper class prices. It's absurd to post day care and private educational institution prices in Madison, NJ, when comparing "here" vs. "there".

They all drive $100,000 cars in Madison, too. Should we use those numbers to compare the prices of automobiles?

USA, Canada / Would like to move back to Poland from New York after living in USA for 20 years. [155]


boy oh boy I'd like you to start doing just that.

you ignored my question about "Madison Area".

where, specifically, in the united states, is "the Madison area"?

USA, Canada / Would like to move back to Poland from New York after living in USA for 20 years. [155]


OK. yep, you win. go ahead with your $1,880/month and "the cheapest there is". you can have it. masz.

and I'll go ahead and pay $750/month for my child's day care and my sister, who lives in New Jersey, a state more expensive than most, will continue to pay $800/month.

yep.

Work / 3500 PLN gross - not happy with my salary (working in Warsaw for an international company) [55]


indeed.

Work / 3500 PLN gross - not happy with my salary (working in Warsaw for an international company) [55]


this is hopeless.

i'm done.

Work / 3500 PLN gross - not happy with my salary (working in Warsaw for an international company) [55]

Holendrem wrote:


salary depends on RELEVANT work experience.

hence, when you work in an international company, the ability to speak some random language natively that nobody has a definitive use for shouldn't have any impact on your salary.

let me ask you this: if a Polish person went to Holland to take a job in an international company, should that person get paid more than other Dutch workers because he speaks native Polish?

Work / 3500 PLN gross - not happy with my salary (working in Warsaw for an international company) [55]


3 times you've avoided the question.

i wouldn't give you a raise, either.

Work / 3500 PLN gross - not happy with my salary (working in Warsaw for an international company) [55]


is it?

So you march in and say, "I can speak native Dutch" which means I deserve to be paid 50% better than the rest of the poor shlubs you got workin' here?

if it was a Dutch company, operating in Poland, and Dutch speakers willing to live and work in Poland were scarce, now you've got something. but all he's said is, "an international company" and I fail to recognize why being able to speak native Dutch automatically grants you a huge increase in pay over your counterparts on the off chance that one day they'll need something Dutch translated or a Dutch native will call up, unable to converse in English to the rest of the customer service reps, when we all know Dutch people speak English better than most of Europe. after the first 6 months goes by and I still haven't found a use for your Dutch, I'm gonna start asking myself why I pay you so much.

if Dutch people speak English, and Polish or German or whatever person speaks English within that company, and the people calling speak English, why should I pay you double for your Dutch?

Work / 3500 PLN gross - not happy with my salary (working in Warsaw for an international company) [55]

you didn't answer the question.

again....why should the company pay you more for being a native dutch speaker?

Work / 3500 PLN gross - not happy with my salary (working in Warsaw for an international company) [55]

you keep mentioning "native speaker". is Dutch the official language of your company? trying to see how being a native Dutch speaker has anything to do with your salary.

Life / Homosexuality in Polish Culture [231]

what's this holy roller's name again.....oh.......so, Kondzior wrote:

"Liberals are so obsessed with their vision of individual "happiness" that i wouldn't be surprised if they attemped to normalize other forms of degeneracy, like zoophilia, or pedophilia."

homosexuality is legal, well, in most developed countries anyway. pedaphelia or "zoophilia" as you call it, is not. i'd say this makes all that pretty silly.

USA, Canada / Do Pol/Ams celebrate Black Friday and other American festivals? [18]

black friday is pure madness but there's a simple way to avoid it: don't go shopping. no worries, you still get the day off.

USA, Canada / Looking for Polish beer in the United States [39]

I've had some good Polish stuff but it's microbrew. the same story in the states. some of my favorite eers are American but they're microbrew, often times tough to find if you're on the east coast and it's brewed in the central/western states. most american mass produced beers are garbage but that's what people in other countries are exposed to.

News / More cars in Poland than America? [29]

nobody's arguing logistics here, just facts.

kinda off topic, patna'.

News / More cars in Poland than America? [29]

i also find these statistics very hard to believe. as another mentioned about high school, of the 220 students in my class, i can't remember even one person that didn't get a car the minute they turned 17. in the US it's like a right of passage, you're practically issued a car once you're of age and unless you move to a big city and only need the subway, you own a car till you're dead and depend on it evey day. i'm almost hesitant to say "car" and not "vehicle" because so many people drive pickups and SUV's.

worth mentioning that in Poland it is very common for someone to not get their first car till they're in their twenties. a lot of them are in school till they're 23-24 and don't work during that time making car ownership near impossible unless mom and pop got the szmal.

USA, Canada / Would like to move back to Poland from New York after living in USA for 20 years. [155]

everyoe seems to get this but you, jardinero.

i asked you to go back and read the post i responded to, you didn't, so i'm giving you a five cent response.

you are using $1,200/month, which is inaccurate. my family lives in NJ, one of the most expensive states in the USA, and my sister pays $800/month for an excellent facility. i didn't use Warsaw-like prices because it's not a fair depiction. you shot for the stars with $1,200. 99% of the USA pays far less than that.

Regardless of how you want to compare in the end, Poland is entirely more expensive in both respects. go to both countries, get an average paying job and then buy a 4 bedroom house, a new car, and then fill the gas tank and let me know then which country is more expensive. i'll save you the airfare for this experiment and just go ahead and let you know (especially if you were to start in PL and buy a ticket to the USA using Zloty) that Poland is more expensive.

i'm in PL now and am being reminded of this every day.

USA, Canada / Would like to move back to Poland from New York after living in USA for 20 years. [155]

to polforeigner:

i don't think anyone, expats included on PF, are claiming Poland is some land of plenty where ur handed a zloty tree at the airport. Rather, most of the expats on here put in there time and made their bones and are now leading quite comfortable lives. Certain comparisons though just can't be made.

USA, Canada / Would like to move back to Poland from New York after living in USA for 20 years. [155]


you said 500-600, another said 400-600 and up to 2000zl in Warsaw....let's go with 600 for what I must assume is a respectable, clean, quality day care where everyone has their certifications and the place is fully insured.

you say 5-8X more in the USA compared to Poland? by the number, meaning 600, it's nearly identical.

you simply can't compare prices, man.

USA, Canada / Would like to move back to Poland from New York after living in USA for 20 years. [155]

Jardinero wrote:


no. less than half of $350,000, not PLN. go back and read the post i was responding to.

i grew up in NJ, i know all about property costs along the river and inside the city itself, which is why you don't live there unless you're very well to do. the smart bears move down south where real estate is cheap and winters are practically non-existant.


it's moot, but i have no idea what day care costs in Poland so i'll ask: what does it cost, per month, to bring your child to day care 5 days a week in a mid sized town in Poland?

USA, Canada / Would like to move back to Poland from New York after living in USA for 20 years. [155]


no, no, and no. i'll chime in here about the USA because it's on topic and refers to the OP.

the average salary in Poland is what.....without getting into an argument over what poll is accurate and what is not, let's just say it's 3,000PLN net. if you wanted to buy a brand new BMW in Poland, you're looking at spending years of your salary. if you work in the USA, you'd spend about 1 year of an average worker's salary for say a nicely equipped 328i.

you mentioned "homes" and you used 350,000. if a "home" runs you 350,000 PLN (hard to believe that would get you anything more than a small flat, that's about what my wife and I sold our 50sq. meter flat for in 2011. a friend of mine lived in a town home in Bielany, about 110sq. meters, 15 kilometers from the center of Wroclaw, and she said it was assessed at 600,000PLN in 2011) you're looking at many Many MANY years of salary to pay for it. My house in the USA, brand new construction, 300 sq. meters, property, driveway, Jacuzzi tub in the master bathroom, central air, 2 car garage, brick siding, community Olympic sized swimming pool, tennis courts.....less than half of your 350,000 number.

it's simply incorrect, bud. let's not even get into the fact that in the USA, there's no VAT. or the fact that gas is probably 3 times cheaper.

I am not standing on a soap box here saying the USA is the greatest place on earth, I'm simply responding to your post and saying that if you want to discuss cost of living, compared to Poland, it's a no contest.