Polonia / Poles in Norway? Polish community in Oslo. [43]

'Nynorsk' used to be called 'Landmaal until at least sixty years ago, when it was officially changed, much as 'Bokmaal' was changed from 'Riksmaal'.

Jeg laeser og forstaar norsk, men jeg kan ickje snakke norsk.

Language / Ukrainian language similar to Polish? [236]

Apropos the previous poster's message, an older gentleman from Warsaw who had lived through the post-War period of the Gomułka era during the mid-60's, once remarked half kidding 'All Poles understand Russian, but NOONE speaks it!', which was undoubtedly a not so veiled reference to Russian as the "imperialist" lan-

guage of the Communist epoch.

There's allegedly a well-known joke which is the same in Russian as in Ukrainian. LOL. A Pole however, might not necessarily understand the punch line-:)

Wish I could recall it.

Language / Ukrainian language similar to Polish? [236]

No, I wouldn't necessarily have understood that sentence--:) Probably would've have taken me a few to figure it out CORRECTLY (as opposed to just word for word). And yours is a most basic utterance, so I'm slightly embarrassed!

Language / Ukrainian language similar to Polish? [236]

Dialect differences notwithstanding, naturally--:)

Language / Ukrainian language similar to Polish? [236]

Being a strongly nationalistic (not only patriotic) people, I'm not sure a Ukrainian would agree totally with you. For me, Ukrainian sounds much closer to Russian than to Polish, above all due to those infamous palatalized consonants 'd' and 't' in both Russian and Ukrainian. Again, some greetings and base vocabulary appear more recognizable to a Polish speaker, I think-:)

Language / Ukrainian language similar to Polish? [236]

As a non-Ukrainian (as well as non-Polish) native speaker, I can understand Ukrainian through Polish more easily than Russian, even though I actually studied Russian formally, but never Ukrainian-:)

False friends are a problem, of course, as they are in ALL closely related languages, e.g. Polish/Russian/Ukrainian, Dutch vs. German, Danish vs. Swedish, Spanish vs. Portuguese or Finnish vs. Estonian......

Spoken Ukrainian is harder than the standard written variety, for instance, a basic newspaper headline or article. Hiere, i can sometimes figure out the root meaning from Polish, but not too often!

Language / The Polish language - it's bloody hard! [210]

Well. in addition to it's being f_ _ _ _ g impenetrable looking to anyone but a bleedin' Navajo or perhaps Athabaskan-language family speaker, it's verb conjugations seem to make Polish et al. look like a jolly romp through Battersea Park!!-:)

Plus, it has NO WRITTEN GUIDE, ('cuz it's not a written language), ergo whoever the hell feels like speaking it, he or she can do it any way they bloody please! BRRRRR, scary, mate.

Language / The Polish language - it's bloody hard! [210]

I second the congrats, Seanus!!

Well done, fellow struggler-:)-:)--:)

As far as the difficulty of Polish, I've recently made forrays into Navajo and found that it was considered the ideal language for code during WWII owing to its unusual complexity, not the least of which, it's relatively small speaker percentage in the world-:)

Language / The Polish language - it's bloody hard! [210]

Right on, Seanus!! UWAŻA WSZYSTCY POLACY

Language / The Polish language - it's bloody hard! [210]

Tak, jestem pijakiem a też nie jestem Polakiem--:)-:)!!!

Na zdrowie

Language / Word order; simple & continuous tenses; definite/indefinite articles [13]

Thanx, that's the first time I've ever heard this wonderful book acknowledged as a valuable source tool!!--:)

My Polish students had numerous hurdles to overcome (not the least of which learning to curb Polish aggressive curiosity within an Anglo-Saxon context) and the English tenses proved even harder than American English pronounciation.

Word order used to confound the bejesus out of 'em: 'VAAIIRRR YU ARRR GOINK, MISTERR?' was what one of them would ask repeatedly almost every day, inspite of constant gentle yet insistent correction! And he was only in his twenties!

The women learned faster, which should come as no surprise.

Language / Word order; simple & continuous tenses; definite/indefinite articles [13]

same difference - -:), same author as well!

Language / Word order; simple & continuous tenses; definite/indefinite articles [13]

Practically ALL Polish verbs are paired aspectually; 'mówić'/'mawiać','pisać'/'pisywać', 'zadzwonić'/'dzwonić' etc. Although not every verb follows this rule, your best bet in helping to understand the rules written in English is "500 Polish verbs - conjugated in all tenses"! The intro. got me through first year Polish and the back of the book has games and puzzles which reinforce the structures mentioned in the text.

Other than that, there have been literally umpteen in-depth linguistic articles on this subject, many in English--:)!

Language / Poland in different languages? [74]

Również, kolege!

M:

Language / Poland in different languages? [74]

Tak, tak zapewno! Ale może być nie zrozmialeś moją przeszła wiadomość. To NIE było moje zdanie!!

Language / Word order; simple & continuous tenses; definite/indefinite articles [13]

Polish, like the other Slavic languages (as Krzysztof and other native speakers have explained) uses 'aspects', i.e. ways of perceiving motion, where English and most non-Slavic European languages use 'tense' or time modes, e.g. "I go". meaning "I am in motion on foot somewhere every day, that is, regularly = "Chodzę do szkoły". (I go to school/I am a student or pupil) vs. "I am going (..to school)". with the sense of "I find myself presently in motion toward school. = Idę do szkoły. Here, Polish uses two compeltely separate verbs 'chodzić' and 'iść', whereas English applies two different tenses of the SAME verb!

Multiply the above example by literally uncountable verbs with independent aspect forms, and you'll quickly see both the problems Poles have learning English as well what English speakers must endure learning Polish-:)

Language / Poland in different languages? [74]

Bondi,

I trust I didn't convey the opposite! Certainly, the degree of 'cross-pollination' between Hungarian and Slavic languages, such as Polish, to the extent indicated in your nicely informative post cannot be denied.

I still maintain however, as a Westerner who learned Polish first at around the start of my thirties, and Hungarian not all that long after, that I found Hungarian a far more challenging language, despite my bilingual upbringing; German wasn't of much use!

Perhaps a native speaker of either Polish or Hungarian, experienced at teaching it to foreigners, might gently disagree--:)

Language / Poland in different languages? [74]

'.......and found it more difficult than Polish......'

...precisely because for native English speakers like ourselves, there are precious few "anchors" to grasp onto for support, i.e. EVERYTHING looks foreign!! In addition, Polish has an intonational rhythm, in Hungarian, the accent is always on the first syllable, even in many of their polysyllabic words and place names, and there is also even less vocalic recduction than in Polish, so that every single letter must be pronounced separately!! Try to imagine the first Dracula Hollywood film star Bela Lugosi "GUUD EEVENINK, AI AHMM DRRRAKUULAA, AI BEED YUU VALLKAWMM.....", with none of the slurring, schwa-like effects of, say, English or German,

Furthermore, if you literally translate the Hungarian meanings od certain key phrases literally, the impression is often more foreign-sounding than in Polish--:)

Language / Recommended for learners: Michel Thomas Method Polish Audiobook [60]

"a German accent...."

Ever heard or sat in on an English class in Germany?? The teacher often has such a strong native accent that it's a miracle the pupils learn to speak decent English at all.

In Poland it's probably the same.-:)

Language / Poland in different languages? [74]

Oh, I agree here with Mafketis 100%! I mean, at least there are some common markers in Polish that appear to correspond with other Indo-European tongues; prepositions, detached pronouns, frequency of related Latin/European-based vocabulary, similar sentence structure to English, as well as to German.

With Hungarian? I was out on a limb at first; enclitic pronouns, those definite vs. indefinite conjugations I mentioned earlier, and of course, the complete non-Indo-European word base that makes almost the entire language sound all but incomprehensible! And then, those numerous cases (roundabout 32 at last count) vs. a mere seven in Polish, four in German......, the 'defective' verb "to have", plus the various double meanings of everyday nouns, e.g. 'ido' with two dots above the 'o' meaning both 'time' and 'weather' (rather like Spanish and French here), depending on the context, or 'eg' with an acute accent over the 'e' meaning 'sky', 'firmament' (heavens) or 'fire' etc...

Not a language for the faint hearted--:)

History / History of European and Poland's anti-semitism [192]

Didn't understand last post from dcb! Guess it lost something in the translation--:)!!!

History / History of European and Poland's anti-semitism [192]

- -:)!!!! Marku, nasz urzędnik skarbowy :M

History / History of European and Poland's anti-semitism [192]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZ!! Oh, was I dozing off?? Sorry-:) Wake me up when you're finished.

History / Friedrich Nietzsche - Polish or German ? [73]

"Have you ever read 'The Anti-Christ'......"

As a matter of fact I have-:) Nietzsche, like most great authors, loses considerably in translation. I presume you didn't read him then in the original, because if you had, his meaning comes across as less of a tirade in German than it does in English. To be frank, I couldn't imagine Nietzsche in Polish, anymore than Mickiewicz in English, or even German, although 'Pan Tadeusz', f.ex., has been translated into most major languages.

History / Friedrich Nietzsche - Polish or German ? [73]

Nietzsche, it turns out, for all his anti-German self loathing and fulminating against his own lot ('Nestbeschmutzer' as the Germans call such types), has been criminally misrepresented, perhaps the most misrepresented German philosopher ever. Unlike Heidegger, for instance, whose support of the Nazis was genuine coin of the realm, Nietzsche was certainly NOT an antisemite!!!! His sister, Elisabeth Nietztsche-Foerster, married to an arch-Jew hater, was the culprit who re-wrote his writings later in life and made him (like Wagner) a sort of poster boy for the Hitler.

A farce beyond description and grossly untrue.

Language / Poland in different languages? [74]

Sorry Bondi, am not quite with you on that one. You're saying Hungarian or Polish word order is harder for English speakers?

History / Friedrich Nietzsche - Polish or German ? [73]

AAAMENN, Bart! He all but reinvented, that is, revived, the mazurka as Poland's national dance, not to mention the waltz. In fact, so much a Polish patriot was he considered, that yet another Polish nationalist and later premiere (plus Chopin interpreter extraordinaire) Jan Ignace Paderewski called Chopin 'Our greatest national treasure!' Schumann, not a Pole by any stretch, called Chopin's polonaises 'guns buried in flowers'-:)

Indeed, Chopin may well have been the greatest Pole of them all, since unlike Mickiewicz, Conrad and others, his language is universal and transcends translation!

History / Friedrich Nietzsche - Polish or German ? [73]

Wish we did-:) I'm dying of curiosity.

History / Friedrich Nietzsche - Polish or German ? [73]

And now.......HERE'S THE CLINCHER QUESTION: FREDERIC CHOPIN - POLE OR FRENCHMAN????

Born: Zelazowa Wola, Poland (the last time I checked-:) )

Parents: father a Frenchman, Nicolas Chopin, mother Polish

I'm waiting for the jury to return it's verdict. Tick, tick, tick....

Language / Poland in different languages? [74]

As someone who started seriously learning Hungarian long after Polish, I must say that Hungarian offers a foreigner, even a native German speaking US-born foreigner like me, many more challenges than any Slavic language I've studied. My textbook, "Hunagrian: An Essential Grammar" by Carol Rounds (Routledge Press 200?) is unusual in that it was written by an American, who didn't even study the language until her adulthood!!

Indeed, Hungarian has even the Finns beat on the number of actually used cases. About the Celtic language, I'm honestly not sure. Basque though, is a close runner up, as competitions go-:)

Hungarian also has something which even Polish doesn't have: definite vs, indefinite verb forms, e.g. 'En tudok magyarul.' = I know Hungarian. vs. 'Tudom, vagy neked a konyv van.' = I know that you have the book (...more or less, aplogies for my bad Hungarian. Still struggling with the word order. Not as easy for me as German). The verb 'tudni' (to know) takes either a "k" or an "m" in the first person, depending upon whether the statement is concrete or more abstract.

Different, huh??