Life / Why Radosław, not Czesław? [34]


A man with a pagan name who became a Christian. He lived from 848 - 899. The Council of Trent occurred 1545-1563.

It was not uncommon for the church to take converts and make them saints for propaganda purposes in order to appeal and be relevant to a local population. The RC did this again recently with a follower named Kateri Tekakwitha who was an American Indian.

There are other followers who did change their name while they were still alive. St Adalbert of Prague (956-997) is one example. His real name was Vojtěch (Wojciech) and changed it to Adalbert in honor of his mentor Saint Adalbert of Magdeburg.

I've often heard and seen accounts that Adalbert is the equivalent of Wojciech in other languages but this is of course completely erroneous.


Yes while there will be others who would be turned off by the name due to its overly Catholic connotations.


Yes, slightly indeed; as in not much different from what I already stated. This other article actually reinforces what I already posted. Specifically, the replacement of native names with Christian approved names:


As well as the process of non-Slavic names being Polonized or Slavic names being substituted with Greek or Latin equivalents:


And this other article you shared includes what I've already posted about the banning of native non-Christian names per the diktat of the Council of Trent:

pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzieje_imion_w_Polsce

It was only due to newly found patriotism during the era of partition in the 19th century that there was interest in reviving traditional Polish names. The revival came from priests who had previously fought hard to prevent traditional names from being used:


You mentioned that many new names were "made up" during this later partition. However, rather than being artistic and inspirational interpretations, the very long passage of time actually resulted in errors being made with these names when they were revived since their original forms were lost from public consciousness for centuries:

So, to sum things up, many ancient Polish names of Slavic and pagan origin will be lost forever thanks to the actions of religious zealotry from centuries ago. The few that have survived will most likely continue to decline in popularity as Poland becomes more and more influenced by outside cultures where sometimes the only way to stand out in the crowd is to take a sandblaster to your own heritage and identity and parade around in the Emperor's new clothes. The result? You eventually lose everything and worse so do future generations.

Life / Why Radosław, not Czesław? [34]


Really?

St. Alfred the Great - catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=1262


St. Wenceslaus I, Duke of Bohemia - catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=2040

St. Wenceslaus - catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=592


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_names - Names in Poland


I'm just stating facts.

Life / Why Radosław, not Czesław? [34]

Alfred is too "Olde English".

Wacław (aka Václav) is too Czech.

Both carry the stamp of "Roman Catholic Approved".

Life / Why Radosław, not Czesław? [34]


You don't provide any context or references to your posts and started by lumping all of the names together. Are there particular people in history you are referring to who had these particular names?

From what I could find Bożydar is equivalent to the Serbian form Božidar. Dobromir was the name of a ruler of the Vlachs (present day Romania) way back in the 13th century. Poles could have borrowed these names for any given reason such as marrying a Serb or Romanian who had one of these names or their ancestors did.

Kościsław and Lechosław might be more recent additions but I couldn't find anything to support this or refute it.

None of these four names are common but could also have been chosen as a way to express that secular values (i.e., not "church approved") were held important by the parents who gave it to their children and not because they were "romantic fakes".

In any event these names you decided to separate from your original list don't disprove any of my earlier comments.

Life / Why Radosław, not Czesław? [34]

The name Bogdan/Bohdan with the root "Bog/Boh" is as old as any of the Slavic languages it is used in.

The name Lech was first mentioned in the Chronicle of Greater Poland written in 1295; which means it usage was occurring well before it was documented.

The Council of Trent (mentioned in my first post to this thread) which banned the usage of native non-Christian names occurred between 1545 and 1563.

The first partition of Poland occurred in 1772.

These names may have been revived but they certainly weren't "made up" in the 18th century onwards. What names were Poles using then before Christianity and the Council of Trent?

They predate Christianity which in turn suppressed their usage over the generations. Any revival of these ancient names was done to acknowledge and honor the earliest days of Polish history which is an understandable motive. But being creative with the names of your offspring during times of upheaval doesn't make any sense at all.

My original post cited that Polish nobles were very keen to preserve traditional pre-Christian Polish names. Since they owned most of the land it only stands to reason that they would also want to preserve the culture and heritage which developed on it. We can see examples of this today in the descendants (love them or hate them) of szlachta who are still with us such as Zbigniew Kazimierz Brzeziński, Bronisław Maria Komorowski and Wojciech Witold Jaruzelski.

Their given names weren't just fashionable in the era they happened to be born in. Their linage goes back much longer than that. If anyone looks at the lives of real aristocrats it's evident they are interested in continuity and more often than not they don't give a toss what the rest of society thinks especially some jumped-up bible bashers or nouveau riche artists and scholars.

Life / Why Radosław, not Czesław? [34]

I thought there are elements here on PF who would be applauding the decline and extinction of Polish names of Slavic and pagan origin.

The assault on such traditional names first began centuries ago with the Christianization of Poles and other Slavs and the religious edict to have converts and newborns named after ancient and alien Hebrew personalities or members of their following band of gentile zealots.

/wiki/Slavic_names

Names in Poland


People can blame whimsey, pop-culture or multiculturalism for the swings in popularity of traditional names but the damage was done a very long time ago.

Love / Observations and experiences so far about Polish women [93]

I could argue that you objectifying and stereotyping Polish women is what is putting a barrier between you and a possible relationship with one.

But far be it from me to suggest that your so-called "Western" observations and understanding of the world are stunted.

So instead I recommend you remain convinced that you and you alone are correct in all that you think and do (just as you have been conditioned in life to believe) and then get the first flight out of Poland and back to wherever you came from.

News / Polish teenager pregnant after rape - A recent result to an older story [34]

Court ordered fines and restitution in such cases do well to alert institutions that they need to be objective and professional in their dealings with the public. But unless the law changes to allow on demand access, and possibly the entrenched practitioners and administrators too, it is possible there will be a future recurrence like this.

News / John Godson (Poland's Parliament member) and his views on social issue. [23]


Sure. Right. Did these nuns have to come in to pick up and continue his noble work once he dropped it like a bad habit to pursue a political career for himself?

News / John Godson (Poland's Parliament member) and his views on social issue. [23]


There are both printed statements given in interviews as well as videos from Godson all over the internet claiming that "Gawd told him to go to Poland." and that Poland and Europe were the place of calling for his "pilgrimage".

How noble of him, eh? Yep, you must be so grateful he came to civilize the savages with his own spin on the story about the invisible sky wizard. Never mind that Christianity had been established and uninterrupted in Poland for over 1,000 years.

Either he is out of his mind or his supporters are for believing him.

And what a coincidence that your dearest John Godson moved to Poland in 1993 - the same year the European Council announced that associate members from Central and Eastern Europe would be allowed to become members of the EU.

One would have thought that a Christian missionary like Godson would have bravely gone to places where Christianity is persecuted like Israel, Iran or North Korea to help keep the faith alive. Or why didn't he do his good works in places that truly need help like the poor in his native Nigeria or elsewhere in Africa or even Haiti, Ecuador or The Philippines?

Let's face it, none of the places I mentioned would ever give him a comfortable middle class existence with modern amenities.

Like I said he is a social climber and he is no different than multitude of others who have left his corrupt homeland for a better life in Europe.

News / John Godson (Poland's Parliament member) and his views on social issue. [23]


Those are Godson's own words given in an interview to a publicly accepted publisher of record. Strange? Yes, because his views are out of step with the modern EU. Godson is a social climber. He is a happy clapper by choice because that is what resonates with a larger cross segment in society rather than the marginalized gay community. But if the opposite were true you would definitely see Godson's fat derriere in a nothing more than a leather jockstrap gyrating on top of the lead float at a gay pride parade.


You are the one that doesn't understand what is going on around you. Your first instinct was to blindly support him due to his minority status even though he is nothing more than a tawdry bigot and is effectively misusing his office to trample on the rights of other minorities based on his so-called "religious convictions". And yet it is you lot who complain all the time on here about Radio Maryja and its listeners. Godson is not only in the same boat as them he is an eager oarsman.

Europe and Poland don't need any extremists especially in political office; be they Jew, Christian or otherwise.

News / John Godson (Poland's Parliament member) and his views on social issue. [23]

wbj.pl/article-60750-the-world-according-to-a-po-conservative.html - The world according to a PO conservative

- Warsaw Business Journal, 22nd October 2012

So what do all the foreigner squatters in Poland who boast all the time about having unrivaled insight into the country and people have to say about their hero and fellow foreigner John Godson?

News / Poland's Economy Is Booming! The EU's Success Story? [711]

An evasive reply that starts out in very general terms and quickly ends with a personal attack on your Polish hosts.

Thanks for your admission.

News / Poland's Economy Is Booming! The EU's Success Story? [711]

So I'll ask again, is the 77 million euros in food aid going to be spent on the many poor in Poland who have not benefited from the recent years of growth or was the money misappropriated?

News / Poland's Economy Is Booming! The EU's Success Story? [711]

So if the earmarking of this money isn't based on the need of people living in poverty but the craftiness of politicians to grab as much cash as they can then what is Poland going to do with the 77 million euros it received for food aid?

Are you saying that Polish EU ministers misappropriated these funds since those who require food assistance in Poland are at drastically lower levels or they don't even exist? Is Poland going to use the money to buy up food on the cheap and then resell it at inflated prices back to the Polish public or on the international markets?

Or will Polish politicians further misappropriate this aid by syphoning it off to other pet projects or even to their private bank accounts since according to you Poland's need for external aid is "factually incorrect"?

The money Poland just received from the EU has to go somewhere.

It should be embarrassing enough for the current government to be lining up and asking for handouts at the EU level especially since Poland has been able to largely escape the full brunt of the wider Eurozone's woes; at least in macro-level statistics. If this money was lobbied for based on deliberate misinformation then that really would be a damning indictment of the Tusk regime now wouldn't it?

News / Poland's Economy Is Booming! The EU's Success Story? [711]

Poland's success hasn't benefitted many levels of society. Poland continues to need external aid and received its latest handout this past Thursday: EU grants Poland 77 million euro food aid package.

Poland is among the top three recipients of food aid being beating out by two other EU countries with very shaky economies:

Life / A rant about "patriotism" in today's Poland [60]


Of course it, at least in your mind. It is just more apologies on behalf of someone who incites the mass murder of Poles with whom he does not agree with. One would have that a better person, a gentleman no less, would have come up with a better retort or simply walked away. But no. Delphia is just as abusive, and on many occasions more so, as the people you claim are his critics and yet as far as you are concerned Poland has known no greater patriot since Kościuszko.

Life / A rant about "patriotism" in today's Poland [60]

No. It's one thing to disagree with people and quite another to explicitly state they should be murdered. Nothing "tongue in cheek" about it whatsoever. No one of sound mind would think that it is patriotic to permanently silence their fellow citizens with whom they don't see eye to eye.

Life / A rant about "patriotism" in today's Poland [60]


English gentleman? Are you serious? Are you referring to the same delphia who said the following right here on PF only a week ago:


Source: People the Soviets planted

Too bad TommyG, you may weep for the British Butcher of Poznań when he is challenged by others but I don't.

Seriously, who in their right mind demands at least 160,000 pounds of Polish flesh per annum while simultaneously using every opportunity to declare to one and all that Poland is "his" country?

Seems to me his love for Poland is on par with his fellow immigrant hero Simon Mol.

Life / A rant about "patriotism" in today's Poland [60]


Yawn. It's not yours; not by any degree. It never was and never will be. Poland was there long before you showed up and will be there long after you go. You weren't there during any period of its struggles in the past. You've done nothing to shape its present or its future. If it weren't for PF no one would ever have heard of you. Like your fellow immigrants who drive taxis and work market stalls you are just another foreign who squawks for business.

Furthermore, eating, shitting and sleeping in Poland doesn't give you any special bond with its history or its people.

Life / A rant about "patriotism" in today's Poland [60]


"My country..." that's really ludicrous for you to say regarding Poland. You are the typical Brit who squats in another country and then suddenly believes he owns the place and therefore is in a position to speak on its behalf.

Life / A rant about "patriotism" in today's Poland [60]


So says the British prole who fancies himself as the gatekeeper Poland. Go back to Aberdeen.

Life / A rant about "patriotism" in today's Poland [60]


Knowing English, French or German might have made sense in the last century when all of them exploited other nations with cannon and fixed bayonets. But I see no benefit today for Polish children to learn these languages which will be irrelevant in the near future.

They will be at a disadvantage if they do because I've already demonstrated that other nations, especially English speaking ones like America and Britain, are making their own investments today in teaching their children other critical foreign languages like Mandarin or Spanish or Arabic. For Poles to continue wasting their time and money in learning English, French or German would be condemning themselves to low wage service sector jobs at home or in the few countries where these declining languages are still spoken. Meanwhile it will be the Germans, the British, the French and Americans who snap up the higher paying white collar jobs which will be the ones doing business in the Pacific Rim, South America, the Middle East or even Africa where the Chinese already have a huge presence and the locals are learning Mandarin.


There's nothing uncertain about it. If you actually followed the news rather than coming on here and yelling "busia" at Polonia during all hours of the day and night every day then you would know that we live in a multipolar world and America and Europe no longer hold sway. Polish youth would be at a great advantage of finding high paying and interesting work if they started preparing themselves now for where the banks and businesses are already investing heavily today - and it isn't in America or Europe anymore. So while Polish children in the near future can be enjoying the wealth created from doing business in the Pacific region their grandchildren will also see opportunities for themselves when the future large investors in Poland come from Asia and the Middle East.


Wrong again. The US would be in a world of trouble if China called in the debt. Total blockades of Chinese products is sheer fantasy in today's era of free trade. As if the WTO would turn a hypocritical eye away from such an action. And it is the US who would be terrified if other countries like China dropped the dollar to settle most international transactions. American interest rates would soar so high that the Zimbabwean dollar would be considered a safe haven currency.

That's why Poland always needs to look out for its own self-interest. This means looking at the world ten to twenty years from now and be willing to dump any dead weight luggage like learning English or allying itself exclusively to English speaking countries.

It's the patriotic thing to do.

Life / A rant about "patriotism" in today's Poland [60]


Absolutely. They will teach Mandarin for economic reasons alone. Since Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world then there will naturally be an increased demand and usage in Arabic; increased trade and tourism with the Middle East will solidify its significance.


It may not be convenient at the moment and of course you will have to write off practically all of the current adult population for whom it would be too late in a career (that's assuming they are working) to use it. But you shouldn't assume that European and American youth of today (tomorrow's politicians and business leaders) are too dumb or unwilling to learn and use languages other than English. I'm very confident that the sons, daughters and grandchildren of Europe's and America's current stock of politicians and business elite are learning critical languages like Mandarin and Spanish and Arabic even though you and your beer swilling mates are not.

Just look at demographic trends. If America and Europe are declining in their traditional populations and are rapidly being replaced by migrants from all around the world then it only makes sense that English will bow out and disappear. In the near future it will be little more than a curiosity like Latin or Esperanto are today. Why save it when no one will be using it?

Poles need to look beyond today and envision the world their children will actually be living in tomorrow. Real patriots not only defend but they adapt in order to ensure the survival of their own.

Life / A rant about "patriotism" in today's Poland [60]

Currently on Apple's website they have a video tribute to it's founder Steve Jobs who passed away exactly one year ago. In it a recording from Steve Jobs states his favorite quote was from the retired Canadian ice hockey player Wayne Gretzky who said "I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been."

Patriotic Poles need to adopt the same philosophy for themselves and their children.

The puck is no longer in America and Europe.

Life / A rant about "patriotism" in today's Poland [60]


For you, ignorance is certainly bliss. Even a cursory search on the internet revealed how terribly wrong you are. Both the Chinese and other (English speaking) countries are making the investment in learning it:

Chinese trying to develop softer image in Africa, globally by teaching, educating

pri.org/stories/world/africa/chinese-trying-to-develop-softer-image-in-africa-by-teaching-educating-6464.html

Teaching Chinese in America

cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7263234n

Chinese language teaching in the UK

britishcouncil.org/schools/chinese-language-teaching-uk

Poles need to remain competitive and quit wasting their time, money and children's future on learning English since it is in terminal decline.

Life / A rant about "patriotism" in today's Poland [60]

It's not off topic at all. A Polish patriot would want their children to be fully prepared for the future like in the next decade when they have grown up and left school and are looking for meaningful and fulfilling work. Learning some basic English to land a job at a hotel, restaurant or care home in Blighty or some position in Poland catering to tourists is not what I am talking about.

More proof - Arabs have traded with the Chinese for centuries. You obviously never heard of the Silk Road. Guess what, they weren't speaking English to each other way back then and don't need to now or in the future either.

Even more proof - at this very moment the most widely watched music video in the history of YouTube is sung in Korean. Why not English? Because it is irrelevant. Popularity doesn't equate to something being done in English.

Like I said, Polish patriots should be preparing their children to speak a relevant foreign language now. English will hardly be spoken in the next ten to twenty years and that is the amount of time it takes to become truly fluent in a language.

Life / A rant about "patriotism" in today's Poland [60]


Power and influence in the world is shifting very quickly to the Far East, Middle East and other Pacific regions which include Central and South America (who by the way do enormous and profitable trade with China). There is no reason for this to reverse. The world's attention is already fixed there. English may have been the language for business at a time of slow transportation and limited communication technology or when large stock exchanges were based mainly in The City and New York. All this has changed. Indeed, it's not only the high rents and taxes that are driving banks and businesses out of Britain and North America. They know full well that the largest growth opportunities will be in places with the largest and most youthful populations. And said banks and businesses can no longer afford not to cater to their customers. Only a fool would believe that the Chinese, Brazilians, Mexicans or any given Middle East country - all of whom have rapidly expanding middle classes - will always take a submissive role and place English ahead of their own language and cultural identity. Even the internet is changing fast to have URL's and other programming script be expressed not only in non-English languages but in non-Roman characters as well.

The world is breaking away permanently from being centered around the North Atlantic and you know as well that places like Australia and New Zealand are too docile to ensure that English survives as a preferred language for interpersonal or international exchanges in the Pacific Rim. Face it, you may think you are popular today but tomorrow no one be using your English language unless they need it to speak to the dying elderly in a care home somewhere.

Life / A rant about "patriotism" in today's Poland [60]


Teaching Polish children English is NOT an act of patriotism. Only an English speaking foreigner like yourself who wants to be accommodated and feel at home while abroad would state something so absurd.

If Poles need to learn another language it should be critical ones most widely spoken in the world such as Chinese and Spanish or one growing rapidly in significance such as Arabic.

The sun set on Britain a long time ago and it will never see another dawn again. America's own decline is approaching a free fall. English is going the way of Latin and within just a few generations will be another dead European language.

History / People the Soviets planted in Poland [75]


You are completely unhinged. Suggesting any person or group should be murdered for any reason is utterly disgusting and reprehensible. Shame on you! The Mods should turn your post and IP address over to the police.