Travel / Just visited Poland - here is my random rant [154]


Wouldn't that just require some legal trickery, or a simple agreement that the graduate tax is exempt from such agreements? Or even simply not calling it a tax, but rather a loan collected in the same way as in the UK?


I agree with this, but I think the problem is that it may fall foul of freedom of movement rules. But as you say - if it's seen as an integral part of the University education, perhaps it can work - but I guess you might get the problem that they will still leave Poland and be able to complete the experience elsewhere.

Perhaps the only real way forward is to introduce tuition fees. England has finally reached the level where people are getting discouraged from studying for the sake of it - which is no bad thing.

Travel / Just visited Poland - here is my random rant [154]


It's a mentality that I struggle to understand myself. What you'll find in Poland is that any time any measures are proposed to make life easier for employers/the government - if it affects women's ability to 'care' for children in any way, then there will be screams and protests. Such a tax would almost certainly result in some women (some! many are also opposed to the screaming/shouting that goes on) howling about how they're being taxed unfairly because of wanting to stay at home rather than repay the costs of their education.


Sadly, it's a common thing in Poland - I know of several women who received an expensive education from the State, only to put a couple of years in at work, then to more or less effectively retire from work to become full time mothers. I do know plenty others who hate such women and who went back to work as soon as they could - but it doesn't change anything.


Not in terms of what gives money back for the expensive education that they received. The cost of putting someone through 17 years of education only for that person to become economically unproductive is huge - especially as Poland is struggling with the amount of debt that ZUS has already.


I think they should pay it back the same as everyone else does through taxation. That's why I think a post-graduate tax makes the most sense - and it also reduces the incentives to stay at home rather than working. If someone wants to stay at home with children rather than putting them into child care - then they have to pay regardless. It might also discourage people from studying for the hell of it - there are far, far, far too many people studying 'unemployment factory' subjects now - people who would be better off learning a trade and getting into the workplace.


I don't know actually. I think Poland is much more open minded to new things than the West is - but I think for those that are only after making as much money as possible in the shortest time, the West has far more opportunity. Poland seems to be much more of a long game, if that makes sense?

Work / Dutch speaker (native) experienced in Finance: job opportunities in Poland [63]


For that type, yes. Poland is full of outsourcing work at such a basic level - it's much cheaper to employ a B2/C1 Dutch speaking Pole than to employ a Dutch native to type things into a computer. Poland is also able to attract graduates from the Baltic states, Ukraine, Belarus, Slovakia, the Czech Republic and Hungary quite easily - all of whom learn such languages.

It's not to say that jobs paying well don't exist - they do - but they are in fields where people are in high demand in general, such as with SAP.

Travel / Just visited Poland - here is my random rant [154]


That's not such a problem where EU citizens are concerned - they can just be chased for the tax owed if they don't pay.

Work / Dutch speaker (native) experienced in Finance: job opportunities in Poland [63]

And how much experience does he have, and how much informal business is done in Polish?

It's worth pointing out that you were looking at data input jobs, not the kind of job that he's talking about. Yes, you can earn 6000zl net - but you'll also be expected to know your way around and be worthy of such an investment. Like others have said, your experience/qualifications are nothing special on the Polish market - there are many others in the same position.

I know that you think that you're worth x amount and people are telling you that you'll get y amount and you can't bridge the two - but you really can't compare the salaries in Brussels with the salaries in Poland.

Travel / Just visited Poland - here is my random rant [154]


The problem is that these people also represent a powerful lobby - not only do they shout and scream online at any measures that undermine their "right to be a mummy", but they also are able to influence their partners who enjoy having a slave at home. If they were to be forced into paying the true economic cost of their courses - they may very well howl and scream until the measures are overturned for "mummies".


The problem is that the economy is still helped by those who work abroad - someone who obtained a poor, poor degree who goes to work abroad (and who sends some cash to their village family) is far more use abroad than in Poland right now.

I think probably the only way to counter it is to require people to pay a minimum level of tax for x years if they've received a free university education - set the tax level at the same amount as a worker on minimum wage and require it to be paid regardless of where they reside.

Life / Poland's Environment, recycling [79]


Why? Polish companies and workers have been offering lower prices in the rest of the EU for years - why is it acceptable for them to


but not for foreign companies in Poland?

It's up for Polish companies to compete. There's a level playing field, and Poles have done exceptionally well competing in it in the area of services.

Work / Dutch speaker (native) experienced in Finance: job opportunities in Poland [63]

I think this is the real issue - the original poster isn't starting his career, he's looking at it from the perspective of someone who already has a job in the Netherlands and is earning a Western salary. It's just not comparable.

Life / Poland's Environment, recycling [79]


Where I am (just outside Poznan) - we've signed a deal with the previous locally owned company. No sign of any Germans, only moustaches. As for the price - 24zl a month for two people is fine by me, especially if it finally puts a stop to the problem of rubbish being dumped by idiotic houseowners who can't afford to pay for rubbish collection.

Law / Getting married in Poland (documentation, church) [42]

Unfortunately, that blog is quite wrong for many people. It may apply to American citizens (I don't know) - but for many Europeans, the process is different due to the need for the Certificate of No Impediment.

Work / Dutch speaker (native) experienced in Finance: job opportunities in Poland [63]


Of course - but would it matter very much for a data input job? Of cousre - better jobs will require a better command of Dutch, but I imagine that these jobs don't need to be advertised heavily.


Absolutely. Or they might stay depending on the girl. Or they might stay for more than one girl - all depends on the individual. But yes, there are plenty who come to "chase the tail" so to speak.


Money isn't everything, and if they're a so-so Dutch graduate who hasn't got much hope of landing a good job in the Netherlands, they can start a corporate career in Poland as their language skill is in demand. Whether there's much career progression in such jobs - I don't know - but still, it's not a bad place to start a career.

Don't forget that others speak Dutch too, not just those from Europe. Not to mention graduates from places such as Ukraine and Russia that can also fill such positions.

The other crucial thing - you might be something special in Poland because of your qualifications, but in Poland, a Masters is absolutely normal.

Travel / Just visited Poland - here is my random rant [154]


Many, unfortunately. There is a culture in Poland of women getting married/pregnant earlier, and often staying at home for many years as a result. It's a scourge with educated ones who often suddenly forget their ambitions to become a full time mummy - and of course, Poland being what it is, no-one is really willing to employ such a woman if she's shown such a lack of interest in actually working if they can get new graduates who are willing to work too.

Work / Dutch speaker (native) experienced in Finance: job opportunities in Poland [63]


That's the way that the Polish labour market works.

There's no need to pay a premium - the jobs you see advertised don't require absolute mastery of the language. Dutch at B2/C1 level is more than enough to work in such jobs. Why would anyone want to pay around 4000-5000zl more a month just for someone at C2 level?

But if someone can't get a job in those countries for whatever reason, or if they want to come for a new experience, or want to come for girls - then they will accept it. The reality of the Polish labour market is such that your grades don't really matter from university - people don't have much faith in those grades, so a degree is a degree.


No, it doesn't quite work like that. There are many people graduating because there are many courses available - and the way that the Polish university system works encourages the creation of these courses. There are over 100 people graduating from history every year in Adam Mickiewicz University in Poznan - yet there are barely any jobs for such graduates.

To be honest, look at it on a more human level. Someone coming here and earning 3000zl net can meet girls on that - they can do the job (data input) easily and have time to go and meet plenty of girls afterwards. They'll go back to the Netherlands in a couple of years with a little bit of experience and a girlfriend - everyone's happy. The wages might not be so great, but it doesn't matter when you're young.

Travel / Just visited Poland - here is my random rant [154]

I'd rather be in favour of a system that requires graduates to work x years by y date - or they have to pay a considerable tax bill. Going abroad wouldn't give you immunity, as the tax bill would always be waiting for you.

Work / Dutch speaker (native) experienced in Finance: job opportunities in Poland [63]

It's not ridiculous, because you're applying for a starter position doing a job that anyone can be trained to do. I have my doubts that anyone is getting 4000zl net just for speaking Dutch in an entry level position. Your qualifications are nothing special by Polish standards, and your experience is meaningless when applying for a starter position. In fact, your experience may hinder you, as people want fresh graduates to mould in their way rather than workers who come in doing things their way.

You need to consider that salaries are much lower in Poland. You're getting 1800 Euro net for a job that requires far more knowledge in the Netherlands - so why would anyone give you even 1000 euro net in Poland for a job that is glorified data inputting? There are many Dutch graduates every year in Poland - they can do exactly the same job.

By all means, apply for the jobs - but I don't think you're going to get more than 2500-3000zl net.

Travel / Just visited Poland - here is my random rant [154]


Hungary has either brought in such a law or is planning to. I believe Belarus has a system where after university, you have to go and work for the State in some capacity before getting to go alone, too.

Work / Dutch speaker (native) experienced in Finance: job opportunities in Poland [63]


For a starter position? Not a chance. 2500zl net would be a good salary in this case - you're not going to get 6000-7000zl net in your position.

Study / Portugese erasmus student moving To Poznan. Job, rent, language? [9]


It won't pay the bills in Poznan. I can speak from first hand experience - no-one is interested in young Portuguese/Spanish/Italian speakers "teaching" because they usually don't have much of an education, nor do they have any ability to actually teach. The going rate for such a person is as low as 20zl an hour - and everyone knows it. There's far too much of a supply on the market and little in the way of demand - Spanish is fashionable, but no-one is going to pay big bucks for it.


It is possible - there's one kebab shop in Poznan that seems to only employ foreigners.

There are other alternatives, such as finding work with a company that wants to move into the Spanish/Portuguese markets. But no-one is going to be interested in working with such a young person - especially in an ageist society like Poland.


Very. The best hope you have is call centres, but it's hard hard work for low pay.

Life / Poland's Environment, recycling [79]

Doesn't bother me in the slightest about having to segregate rubbish, the only problem is that I haven't bought separate bins yet...

Travel / Just visited Poland - here is my random rant [154]


Maybe it did - wasn't that time also when many old ideas were swept away and new ones introduced?


It stems from bad training and bad management, at least in bigger companies.


It lacks personal accountability, in my opinion.

Travel / Just visited Poland - here is my random rant [154]


At least in my opinion, it might make small business owners realise that they need to treat clients properly.

It won't change a thing with certain supermarkets that rely heavily on agency staff.

UK, Ireland / Western Europe is not Paradise after all (Polish doctors in the UK more popular) [75]


Likewise. I can understand coming afterwards with a small gift to say thank you - but during? Absolutely no way.

I remember one night getting more treatment than I wanted, but that's another story...

Travel / Names and checking - a question for regular Ryanair passengers. [8]


Certainly is. O'Leary has never denied that his end goal was to offer flights for absolutely free, with the revenue being made up of add-ons rather than the base fare.


It's a fee for printing your boarding pass and checking in at the airport more than anything else.

UK, Ireland / Western Europe is not Paradise after all (Polish doctors in the UK more popular) [75]

Pawian, how do you do it? I only got flowers and sweets :(

Language / Diminutive "Masha"/"Macha" (masculine) [8]


Is that name Polish? It looks like a Sorbian name if anything...

Life / Fr. John Bashobora National stadium Warszawa (Warsaw) [81]


I think that says it all. What need does a mere priest have for a luxury car such as a Lexus?

Just think about all those old people handing over money to Radio Maryja, just to watch him get driven by in a Lexus while they have to walk.

History / De-communisation in Poland? [38]


Indeed. Without the passive collaboration of many many people, the regime could never have worked. We all saw how Poland fell to pieces in 1981 when Solidarity really started putting on the pressure - it was the threat of a return to Stalinist methods that finally got people back and working in late December.

But to look at your proposal - what about the sons and daughters of such people? Should they be punished too, particularly as they might have benefited from family connections?

Love / Getting married in Poland (papers stating we are eligible to get married?) Certificate of no impediment. [24]


It is mentioned quite prominently on the British Embassy website. In fact, last time I checked, there was even a special section about it.


Whatever you do, it's going to be expensive.

But first things first - send a family member to meet the director of the local USC and get him to have a chat about what is possible and what isn't possible. They may be able to come to an agreement - but it is crucial that you meet the director, not the muppets that the public normally get to meet. That agreement might be expensive, but it's your only hope if your paperwork isn't in order. You'll be asking them to break the law by marrying you.

I hate to be the bringer of bad news, but I think your wedding probably won't happen.

Real Estate / Poland online property ownership checker (government website) [19]


Yep, any property or plot of land will be included as long as they have such a number.

Law / Unemployment aid in Poland for an EU citizen [14]

I can only give you one piece of advice : don't believe all that she says. Polish people are very attached to their families, and for instance - let's say you find a job in Krakow (which is possible) - will she really want to travel 6 hours each way to see her family?