Life / Polish pretense - what's the deal? [72]


You are the one who needs to explain why you are hanging out in malls stalking Poles and other people from all walks of life as they buy products you assume are pointless.

You sound like one of those two-faced anti-capitalist extremists who without exception always come from a solid middle class background but who absolutely resents the progress made by others and would love nothing more than to impose a Year Zero terror regime on everybody (except themselves of course).

Life / Polish pretense - what's the deal? [72]


This is what your thread is about? Poles buying branded yoghurt at a shopping mall?

This has got to be one of the most bizarre posts yet on PF.

Did you know that many different branded products including generic varieties are often made by the same company in the same facility but just off different production lines? The only difference is a slight change to the contents and different packaging.

Tell you what if you ever notice somebody stealing branded yogurt then by all means alert the store manager or call the police yourself.

But if anyone has money for something then they are entitled to buy what they like. It's called having consumer choice and it is really none of your business what other people buy.

People often make tradeoffs and give up purchases in other areas of their lives so they can afford the things they really like. Everybody does this. Rich and poor. So if somebody doesn't smoke or gamble then they have money for other items or better quality items.

That's how rational people behave.

So you'll just have to continue to seethe away in silent envy at your fellow shoppers.

Life / Polish pretense - what's the deal? [72]


Yet another British bragger finds his way to PF. It certainly sounds like you and the OP would have less of a low opinion of yourselves if Poles "learned their place." Alas, not everyone in Poland is poor.

Credit Suisse's Global Wealth Report (2012) assessed the following:


Source: warsawvoice

According to the last Forbes' report on The World's Billionaires, Poland has four.

Source: forbes.com

Here's a little inside knowledge for you: Everyone on here knows the expat British left for Poland because as individuals they were nothing back in the UK and were haunted with the knowledge of this grinding shame every day of their lives.

Jobs and marriages make a convenient initial cover story for coming to Poland. But it doesn't last. We've heard it all before. The self-exiled British always hope going to a lower cost country like Poland means that their arrival will instantly catapult them into a higher social status. But we can see their angst recorded here on PF almost daily. They become flabbergasted and enraged when they meet Pole after Pole after Pole who simply aren't impressed with the sight of some flabby old Brit waving his petty cash along with a severely misplaced sense of entitlement.

Life / Polish pretense - what's the deal? [72]

Obviously the Poles you encounter aren't willing to debase themselves for the enjoyment of others who don't like them anyway.

They believe in themselves and know where they want to be in life even if some are still on the journey to get there.

Another way of looking at it is having determination and dignity.

Law / Overstaying Tourist Visa and not getting deported from Poland? I'm from USA [13]

$20,000 per month, per year or over the next couple decades?

It doesn't matter anyway because Poland doesn't need your chump change.

Law / Overstaying Tourist Visa and not getting deported from Poland? I'm from USA [13]

How do you feel about illegal immigrants in America? And don't say you don't care anymore because you plan on leaving. If you are in LA then you of all people should know California's economy tanked due to its inability to support the massive influx of illegal immigrants.

I don't see how anyone can make a positive contribution in any new country if he or she fully intends to disrespect and disregard their laws.

If you can't find a way to stay legally then stay away. You will be a lawbreaker otherwise and the "but we are in love" BS won't change that.

Love / Why a polish girl would prefer a relationship with a foreign man? [30]

I really don't see why these types of threads are so common on PF. It seems like an obsession bordering on perversion.

The underlying theme is always to undermine and denigrate Polish men while treating Polish women as mere objects.

However, when a poster suggests that Polish women should prefer foreign men it is actually an admission that the women from his own country are so inadequate that he is forced to look abroad. That or these foreign men are also so lacking that their own women don't want them either so these men go off in desperation hoping Polish women will overlook their many personal flaws by seeing them as "exotic".

Alas, that novelty wears off really fast.

People who think mixed marriages don't face problems ranging from boredom, to domestic violence, to failing health including sexual dysfunction, to financial stress, to infidelity are fooling themselves.

Men and women fall in love for a whole host of reasons and yes many still fall in love and remain faithful with their own kind.

Love / Troubled relationship - is it because I'm Polish or should I blame it on his moustache? [28]

All relationships go through cycles. If both of you aren't keen on ever getting married that's OK. But if you are and still haven't yet then you are probably restless that he will just walk out one day and leave you when you could have ended things sooner.

If all you have going on in your life is work and each other then of course you are going to get bored.

Talk to him. Maybe he feels exactly the same way about you but doesn't want to hurt you either by saying something. You should respect each other for being honest about things after all these years together.

In any case no one will fault you or him for ending things. But just realize that being with someone else won't necessarily bring you ever lasting joy. It doesn't matter what the books and films about ideal relationships depict. And it has absolutely nothing to do with being Polish. Just look at other countries like America with high divorce rates or India with endemic and open displays of misogyny.

News / Price for the US ambassador position in Poland? $2,300.00 [10]

Cash-for-ambassadorships smacks of corruption no matter how much or how little they dole out. It says these ambassadors don't need to have any knowledge, experience or relevancy to the countries they are being sent to. If Poland enters into a discussion with a US ambassador are they even being listened to in the first place let alone understood? If not then it is a waste of time.

If Poland assumes they can deal with a US ambassador based on professionalism and trust is there really going to be mutual benefit or will Poland agree to something only to end up with the short end of the stick if not left out to dry if things go awry?

These clowns are just being rewarded for signing a cheque. People would associate this sort of behavior with a third world banana republic and not a country which goes around the world trying to hold others to account.

America is a spent force in the world and Poland should not take for granted that the America they are dealing with today is the same as the one from generations ago.

Genealogy / Can one become Polish? [21]

First generation immigrants are never seen as being natives. I imagine there have been a handful of immigrants who have managed to master Polish right down to nuances and not having an accent but in times of distress these same people tend to spontaneously drop their highly managed facades.

Immigrants are aware of their status and at times are given warranted and unwarranted reminders of this by native members of the host population. Since Poland is predominately white chances are if you are from a different race people's first thought will be that you are a probably a foreigner. No different than a white person walking around China or a Latino walking around Rwanda.

Even whites tend to categorize each other into further groupings either by their general features or just the way they dress, carry themselves and definitely when they talk. Blacks do this with other blacks and Asians do this with other Asians. Some don't want to admit to this because they only think of sinister reasons for doing it. But it is true. That's just the way our brains are wired. It is a survival instinct and that is why we are visual and aural creatures.

If you are part of Poland's German minority why should this bother you? Poles living in Germany and other countries are categorized and treated as a minority group. Virtually every country on Earth has minority groups. Many countries now go through great pains to ensure people are acknowledged as being minorities so they can boast they are a liberal and diverse society. And some minorities like Québécois in Canada, Kashubians in Poland, and Jews no matter where they go, deliberately want to see themselves and regarded by others as distinct from the majority around them.

But even deep integration doesn't always erase someone's heritage. A Pole may have been raised as a child in Germany or even Japan but if their surname is still something like Kowalski then others in that society will see this person as either being Polish or of having Polish ancestry.

As far as recently arrived foreigners in Poland they could change their names to something regarded as Polish but that won't prevent other Poles picking up that they didn't spend most of their lives in Poland. Only their offspring if raised in Poland would have a increased likelihood of being regarded as Polish when interacting with other native Poles.

Also, other foreigners who have extensive exposure to Poland and Poles know when another foreigner is not Polish.

Of course living in another culture will rub off on you over time and in many different ways but it is never enough to make you completely indistinguishable from a native especially the older you are when you adopt a new country to live in.

That's just the way life is.

Life / Foreigners in Poland - the identities of our native or the host country [66]


I'm sure many local councils and HM Revenue & Customs would beg to differ.

And business is business. You may only hear Polish being spoken in such shops but it would be sheer madness for any business owner who wants to be profitable to turn any customer away especially if it is a slow day.

Love / Are all women in Warsaw opposed to short term friendship? [5]

Most people strive to make their friendships last a lifetime. Why should anyone interrupt their busy daily lives to entertain some mere acquaintance who happens to be passing through town?

However, if you are just another sleazy foreign sex tourist who refuses to pay more than the price of a cup of coffee for sex then you need to leave Poland and get professional mental help back wherever it is you came from.

UK, Ireland / What does English sound like to the Poles? [30]


It doesn't matter. They may have regional accents but they still all sound very nasally when they talk.

UK, Ireland / What does English sound like to the Poles? [30]


Very whiny like a distressed animal.

Also, the British sound like they are eating something sour while trying to talk while Americans sound like they always have something stuffed up their noses.

Life / Foreigners in Poland - the identities of our native or the host country [66]

It would make no sense to invest in Poland only for such investment to be used to benefit foreign business and foreign labor and not Poles.

Life / Foreigners in Poland - the identities of our native or the host country [66]


EU citizens are free to go to Poland to live and work. If they don't that is a personal decision. If foreign businesses don't invest then that is a business decision. However, Poland shouldn't be reduced to being one big greenfield project for foreign business and foreign workers to come in and exploit to the max while the sustainability of the long term needs and interests of native Poles are completely disregarded.

Equal opportunity is great PC talk but it in practice it is not realistic in a competitive market place. Workers and business people always want easy entry for themselves to the market place but don't think for a moment that they want the same for competitors. If politicians are passing laws which favor domestic interests over foreign interests it is because their constituents are demanding it. No domestic worker wants to be unemployed or have their wages or other benefits depressed because foreign workers are willing to work for less based on the incorrect calculation that it will be a short term sacrifice. No domestic business wants to be forced to close because a foreign competitor (often with heavy government subsidies from their homelands) comes in and strangles the local market while repatriating profits back overseas. And no government wants foreign workers or businesses coming in if they are a threat to sensitive security, political or economic interests even when such threats are not apparent to the wider public.

When countries have equal opportunity laws they create hindrances and distortions which don't always lead to the best candidates being hired or plans being implemented. Such laws say a person or business cannot be discriminated against but they never go on to say that mutual benefits will result for all. They don't do this because they can't. Look at countries like Australia, Britain, America, France and Germany. They are all hyper-sensitive regarding foreign labor and ensuring women and minorities are represented at all levels of society. Fine and so their societies do indeed look very different but are they better places to live in? Is there less aggression, less crime, less income inequality? No. But why is this? Because these societies are forever screaming about "rights" but are scared to death to talk about "responsibilities" which go along with rights. And when people are made to feel they are entitled but they do not have much of anything in common to the rest of society or don't feel a sense of care and duty to the majority around them then equal opportunity becomes an exercise in futility.

There is an assumption many have that all people are reasonable and egalitarian but this is simply not the case no matter what your background is. Ultimately everyone acts in their own self-interests. That's reality.

Life / Foreigners in Poland - the identities of our native or the host country [66]


Well this is an odd thread since many of the foreigners who claim to be living in Poland come on here and say they are now more Polish and know more about Poland than the Poles who left.

Like in any country if Poland didn't want foreign workers then they wouldn't even be let in in the first place or would be promptly thrown out.

But it takes two to tango. Many posts on PF indicate foreigners, whatever their status, don't necessarily see Poland as a long term investment either. On the one hand there are those from other developed economies who say they will be working in Poland for just a couple of years with no indication they hope to stay forever. Some have said they want to leave Poland as soon as possible or are glad they already did. However, this can be put down to homesickness or those personality types who are so arrogant and have the unrealistic expectation that Poland needs to bend over backwards to make them feel like they never left their native countries.

On the other hand there are those, mainly from the developing world, who are seeking Polish partners or admission to Polish schools (almost always with enquiries about obtaining work visas) but give no indication either that they want to make Poland their permanent home. There are hardly any who say once they get to Poland they are eager to learn Polish, its culture and history. Usually you see posts about teaching English or what jobs can be had with minimal or no knowledge of Polish. Other PF posters have pointed out that such migrants only want to use Poland as a door mat to wipe their feet on before entering the rest of the EU.

So I don't see why Poland should go through any great effort to make such transient foreigners feel like they are part of the family. Such foreigners have already made up their minds that Poland is not their final destination. Therefore at most Poland's responsibility to them should be limited to ensuring that any rights they may have as foreigners while in Poland are acknowledged and enforced when needed.

For those foreigners who want and are legally able to make Poland their permanent home then yes the burden is squarely on them to integrate fully. If they feel marginalized then they only have themselves to blame and so it may have to be left to any children or grandchildren they may have to achieve integration should they be raised in Poland and decide to stay.

Social cohesion is achieved when people are assimilated and that means they can't have divided loyalties.

Law / PAKISTANI marrying a Polish Girl [23]

You are the one who admitted to living in the shadows; "illegal" was the word you used to describe yourself.

So why aren't you smart enough or man enough to build a legitimate life for yourself and your bride-to-be back in Pakistan?

Law / PAKISTANI marrying a Polish Girl [23]

What's the going rate these days for sham marriages?

History / Origins of Poland national differences? [41]


As pawian pointed out it was important to disassociate with those whom you wished to conquer or who conquered you. Invasion and warfare have long been a part of European history. But there were also very long periods of peace. Unlike today most people had very limited contact with other cultures and populations globally were much smaller. Apart from earlier patterns of migrations into Europe (which literally took decades if not centuries) many people worked the land or plied their trades locally once they settled. Apart from armies and the wealthy most people did not travel very widely unless some catastrophe or social upheaval forced them to move. And during one period of time many were bound to the land due to serfdom or other obligations. Transportation was a very long, slow and often arduous undertaking too. The geographic dispersion and relative isolation allowed many more languages and cultures to evolve differently from a common heritage or be largely preserved from outside influences. I'm sure back then some rural people only found out they had a new king or were now in a new country once a taxman showed up at their door.

Education was very different ages ago and that's assuming it was even available. Although people spoke the languages of their community it often took many many years before these languages were even standardized regarding spelling and grammar. Many common people were illiterate or had a very basic education. But that is not to say there were stupid. They often had great manual skills, self-sufficiency and a profound understanding of their local environment which in turn contributed to the unique lexicons, customs, styles and architecture which developed over many generations. People may have been aware of other cultures from those they traded with or defended their land against or just from story telling. But people back then didn't have the store of knowledge about the world and resources to get and share it as we do today.

Polonia / I m looking for Polish people IN India [11]

When do you hope to migrate to Poland?

UK, Ireland / Why are Brits so left-wing? [60]

Why are Brits so left-wing?

Some would attribute it to



It's a fair assessment to say that the UK's class divisions which have endured for centuries with no end in sight along with their flirtatious naivety regarding true socialism have lead to their leftist leanings.

I'll also add that the unrequited love affair the British have had with Soviet and post-Soviet Russia goes a long way in explaining the frequent anti-Polish sentiment expressed in British society and in particular its media outlets.

UK, Ireland / How might Britain`s withdrawal from EU affect Poles there and here? [474]


I don't think many Brits care either way since millions have already left to start a new life and career abroad:

telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9819096/Two-million-quit-Britain-in-talent-drain.html

Emigration: Two million quit Britain in 'talent drain'


I understand the position of the Conservative Party is to keep membership in the EU limited to it being a common marketplace rather than become a united country. With that in mind the British government will most likely want to continue to make immigration as easy as possible for non-UK residents of working age especially since those born in Britain are leaving in droves.

Obviously those Britons who are too poor or too talentless are the ones stranded behind in the UK and are the ones who most likely are doing all the moaning about motivated Poles who have arrived to take advantage of the opportunities opened up by the millions who left.

Travel / Starbucks in Poland? [149]

There is one in Warsaw.

starbucks.pl/store/68393

Krakow too.

starbucks.pl/store/19242

Plus Poznan.

starbucks.pl/store/18960

Who will stop this onslaught?

History / Is 5th partition of Poland possible? What kind? How? When? [73]


I think it is in the interest of the Polish government as well as investors to maintain integrity so that rights can be protected and laws enforced. But will the Polish government be more interested in protecting the rights of foreign investors or will it be an advocate for ensuring the rights of Polish citizens prevail in any land dealings?

Like the mass privatization in earlier decades of state-owned enterprises, the majority of the population will not see much if any windfall from the sale of Polish land to foreigners.

Investors only part with their money because they expect to get it back with profit.

Agricultural conglomerates may buy up much of the land and then in turn decimate small farmers in the market place.

Other investors may buy up the land to use it for development of housing, shopping centers, theme parks, etc. Such projects may seem to be geared to benefit surrounding populations. However, such structures are not made to last and more often than not have no uniqueness to them. Essentially, they become a form of blight and ruin the characteristic of the landscape which is traditionally much appreciated by hikers, tourists, photographers, historians, etc. Something most agree should be preserved for future generations to enjoy.

There is also the matter of mineral rights. Foreign investors may only want the land to get at what is underneath it. WIth today's mechanization very few local jobs would be created as a result and that's assuming foreign businesses wouldn't be bringing in their own labor from abroad. Again, the results of such extraction may leave behind more scars on the landscape and decades of pollution from disturbing the land which results in disruption and destruction of habitats of indigenous flora and fauna.

Depending on how laws are written Poles may see no financial benefit from outsiders exploiting the land but will be stuck with the cultural and ecological damage.

So another partition would most likely be latent compared to the ethno-political ones of the past.

Another partition may occur due to extreme environmental impacts. A person may or may not believe in "global warming" however no one can deny that climate change is a very real matter here on Earth. We know of the devastations caused by earthquakes, hurricanes and tsunamis. Although Poland may be geologically isolated from these particular threats an increase in frequency and severity of them elsewhere may make regions of the world unlivable and necessitate the mass movements of entire populations. This in turn would create further strains on local environments which could lead to further conflicts as nations fight to protect or claim ever dwindling resources to sustain life.

In the future Mother Nature may do a partitioning of Poland if indeed sea levels rise high enough to significantly or permanently devastate current population centers along the Baltic coast and inland waterways.

And perhaps this won't happen in our lifetime but another ice age event in Earth's climate cycle could very well extend far enough into Poland as it did millennia ago.

UK, Ireland / Polonization of Britain - Tipping Point Confirmed in 2011 Census [97]


Poles who have been in the UK over the past 70 or 100 years were not significant in their numbers.

The Anglo chauvinist idea of integration (back then as well as today) is for immigrants not to speak their native language in public and no longer have access to facilities or communities to keep their traditions alive and passed along to the next generation. Integration also includes constant societal pressure on immigrants and their offspring to Anglicize their names to the fullest extent possible lest they continue to be denied opportunities to better jobs, promotions, fair terms on financial transactions, etc.


Poles live in cities and villages just like you do. They don't live in ghettos. If they are being marginalized in Britain then I wouldn't be surprised because of the reasons I listed above.


So? The same thing happens all around the world. Britain and Poland are part of the EU. That means free movement of labor for EU citizens. Millions of greying Brits throughout the UK retire and frequently move to spend their dying days on the south coast of Blighty as well as many other places abroad; particularly Spain. If Poles want to spend their working years in Britain and then move back to Poland or some place else that's their business not yours.

,coz,yeah,Britains streets are paved with Gold,right?[/quote]
Not paved with gold but certainly built off of slave labor and war bounty along with the agricultural and mineral exploitation from other countries. If you want to see stolen gold you may very well find it in the Bank of England or melted down into fine jewelry and religious objects in places of worship, museums, palaces and private homes throughout the UK.


What I have written and what you inferred are two very different things. Yes, British behavior in the past has been very ignoble and it comes as no surprise that you want to maintain the status quo of Johnny Foreigner being compelled to Anglicize. I already stated that the British have no track record of integrating into the foreign cultures they encountered. Rather they too establish their Little Englander communities and then displace and Anglicize indigenous cultures when they begin to expand. This has been going on for centuries right up to the present. It's high time the British show genuine respect for other cultures both within the UK and abroad. The large Polish community in Britain is a golden opportunity for the British to start showing civility and do whatever they can to learn from Poles and adopt and preserve their ways. Otherwise you and the likes of Gillian Duffy will just need to pack your bags and join your fellow Brits in Spain. And don't worry about having to learn any Spanish; your fellow expats get on absolutely fine there with their lazy tongues, imported British stodge, and unfettered access to all media back in the UK.


Britain already has a long history of carrying pogroms against Jews:

bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/judaism/history/pogromyork_1.shtml

"In 2006 the Jewish Community celebrated the 350th anniversary of its re-admission to England in 1656. The expulsion in 1290 came after a particularly intense sequence of pogroms - anti-Jewish massacres."

I don't see what point you are trying to make with this comment of yours as it has nothing to do with Poles past or present and is completely off-topic to this particular thread.

UK, Ireland / Polonization of Britain - Tipping Point Confirmed in 2011 Census [97]


What are you afraid of exactly?

My thread is about Polish migration to Britain and how as the original article I shared explained that this has helped the British to become directly exposed to another culture which they did not influence in the past. Poland is no longer just a remote non-English speaking country on the Continent which the British hear about occasionally in the news but pay no mind to. It is a highly civilized society with a very rich cultural history as well as being a modern democracy with a long history of valuing personal freedom.

If you followed the discussion alexnye complained that Poles do not integrate into British society and only learn enough to be self sufficient or claim benefits. I pointed out that if you look at the timeline of British history it is the British who have demonstrated time and time again on every continent their unwillingness to integrate into the native populations they encountered. Whether you like it or not that is simply the facts of history and the effects of it are still with us today.

Poles in Britain have a great deal to share and Poles will learn English if they don't know it already. But their shouldn't be an onus placed on them to downplay, hide or abandon their identity, language and heritage. With such a large presence of Poles in the UK it is the British who, as multiculturalists, should be taking steps to celebrate, adopt and preserve Polish ways.

UK, Ireland / Polonization of Britain - Tipping Point Confirmed in 2011 Census [97]


Perhaps if the British had ever set an example of this when they themselves migrated in their millions to other countries or when they ruled over them you would have a point. But they never did.

UK, Ireland / Polonization of Britain - Tipping Point Confirmed in 2011 Census [97]


My understanding is that the RCC discontinued Latin services around the world because rather than being a unifying factor some internal agitators complained that it was a dead language which alienated "the faithful" because more and more worshippers did not understand it because (surprise, surprise) they weren't being taught it anymore in church run schools.

Britain often trails in the bottom ranks for multi-lingual countries. Therefore it would be a better idea for Britain to make Polish compulsory with full government funding in all its schools starting at the earliest level possible and continuing through to a person's teenage years.


We have often been reminded by other posters that Poland has historically been a multicultural society. I know I have shared this very interesting link before here on PF: commonwealth.pl

Today Poland has a vibrant and growing immigrant population and as an EU member many others are free to go to Poland too. Why more don't would need to be addressed in another thread.