History / Today is the 1st of September (WWII start in Poland) [138]


Apart from Poland Germans didnt really need much, France was by and large a bunch of ***** collaborators, Low Countries were small, Poland required some effort but even it was occupied by some 200.000 men and that was the most Germans ever put into one country as occupying force.

Also you got Italians, Hungarians, Romanians etc.


Heart had nothing to it, not having a fleet or means to build it up and US joining the party was what made the blockade impossible.


Half of what? UK didnt have an army to speak of and airforce was much more then half.

History / Today is the 1st of September (WWII start in Poland) [138]


Yes it was, there were troops massed and all but BoB went south real fast and then there was invasion of Russia.


Actually it was not, in 1941 Germans have the manpower of Germany, Austria, Czech Germans, Italians, Romanians, Hungarians, the industries of France, Germany, Czechoslovakia, Austria so in 1940-41 Germany has all the juice it needs but UK was still unassailable with RAF intact.


Well in real life blockade with submarines was attempted and didnt work out.

History / Today is the 1st of September (WWII start in Poland) [138]


No miracle there, Germans stopped because Hitler was an idiot.


To "march" into Britain they'd have to get through RAF and Royal Navy so yes BoB would have mattered a lot anyway.


No. If they would just have gotten into their boats here's what would happen.

Approximately halfway across the channel they'd meet the RAF and Royal Navy, now because Royal Navy had a monstrous amount of cutters and destroyers as well as quite a few fighters the german airfrorce would be shredded, without the german airforce the british ships would then proceed to massacre every german transport and warship in the channel and that'd be that for invasion.

Travel / Hospitality, Scenery, Food, Clean Streets: My POSITIVE experiences in Poland (!) [39]

Sean whatever you have you can't compete with Poland just like Polan can't compete with rural Russia and Belarus.

Also one more thing, safety.

In US there were minorities and some white places where you were afraid to go, same with UK, no such thing in Poland, it must be the safest country i've been to.

Travel / Hospitality, Scenery, Food, Clean Streets: My POSITIVE experiences in Poland (!) [39]

Meat - UK and especially US dont have real meat, i dont know what sh*t they put in but british and american meat tastes synthetic, when i first came to Poland i fell in love with kotlet mielony, now thats real food.

History / Should HMG compensate Poland and/or Polish veterans? [90]

You know what plans did Hitler have for Poland, gas us all and some 100.000 survivors would be resettled to Siberia.

6 milion people murdered and occupation by the soviets is still preferreble to all people murdered and the country gone forever.


IF they were geographicaly a sidetrack, Poland as the fourth strongest challenger in Europe and direct neighbour as well as being smack in the middle of Europe did not get a deal and even if it did who's to say that after Hitler spanked Russia he wouldnt just decide to gas Poles anyway? 6 milion people and a wrecked country is a high price but we're still around, dealing with Hitler might've meant we'd get wiped out.

History / Should HMG compensate Poland and/or Polish veterans? [90]


He was a head of state and no one had any idea that concentration camp are operational already.


Nope, there's vague indications that he was willing to treat with Poland but again thats treating with the devil, the guy made an open case of Poles going to the chambers, who's to say after Poland helped him win the war he wouldnt go back on his word? The choice of sides was a wise one, dealing with Hitler and his Germany was never a good idea (Stalin and 1941 anyone?).

History / Should HMG compensate Poland and/or Polish veterans? [90]


In the vaguest of ways, "give us a chunk of your country and maybe something" not to mention that Poles were wise not to strike deals with the devil, Poland was not in a sideways position that would allow it to be a junior ally, alliance or not Poles would still go to the gas chambers.

Check the map BB, where's Hungary and where's Poland then you'll understand that Poland never had the luxury of options available to Hungary.


In Greater Poland?? No we never cleared that, the largest city being Poznań where they were never a majority.


You mean the plebiscite where Germany pumped people from all over country into the region just to win it? Where families called their sixty cousins from the Ruhre who came with forged papers? No wonder there was an uprising, Germans chose to play dirty in an attempt to keep the land they stole from Poland and got their nose rubbed straight.


Hitler meant gas chambers and life of servitude to the "german masters" for the survivors, Stalin meant communist hell that was often worse than death, especially to people who know and desire freedom, so whats your point again?


BB we had fagz in parliament when your country was gassing homosexuals as a test, unless you're saying that Germany with its gass chambers, rampant racism, homophobia and lynching of Jews and Gypsies that was a daily occurence was more civilised than Poland? Would you like to talk about german workers and how they were treated as opposed to similar situations in Poland?

There was a reason why communism was so popular in Germanys lower classes you know, your goverments choice of solution was to starve people out and thats Weimar Republic, not Hitler.

Hitler had a different approach, Jews, Homosexuals, Gypsies, retards, all of them would go gaswards and the general populace after years of barbarism did not give a sh*t either so Germany was not exactly a craddle of civilised culture.

History / Should HMG compensate Poland and/or Polish veterans? [90]


We both know it was a start, so did the polish politicians back then, the people you call not pragmatic knew perfectly well that the corridor is the first in the line of demands that will lead to Polands destruction, whats the point of allowing your enemy to weaken you?


Rydz failed as a high commander for a variety of reasons that we can wrap up in a blanket term of "old fashioned" but he was not stupid, would you in his position tell your nation: guys we've got a severely underequipped military, without help we're going down in 1-2 months, 3 if we're lucky?

Thats why he made those comments, the defence plans were drawn for up to 3 months without help, realistically 1-2 so everyone including Rydz knew that the situation was desperate.


Poles gave sh*t primarily about Poland that much is correct.


20 years ago for example Poland could steamroll Germany, today...not so much, but those comments are not made by Poles, we both know that actuall Poles here are what? 10 people?


I should have corrected myself, WW2 era Germany was backward, it was industrialised yes but as far as human rights, liberties and what passes for civilisation it was barbaric and thats even before Hitler.

Interwar Germany does not stand up to Poland when it comes to personal freedoms and such, even economic developement was much slower, Poland needed several decades more to recover in a manner that would allow her to defend herself, it was denied those decades but that doesnt change the fact that civilisationally Poland stood head and shoulders over Germany (or France or Russia really) with the only country comparable being Britain.


You mean the land Germans invaded in the first place and took over from Poland? Or are you contesting that Greater Poland which Germany insisted being its own belonged to Germany or that Germany had any entitlement to it? Germans were never a majority there and held the lands for 120 years through force of arms alone so whats the claim?

Also Greater Polands population being primarily polish showed whom it prefers by organising two most succesfull uprisings (provoked by german opression and supression by the way) so i'm not sure whether your claims are lies or born out of lack of knowledge of the subject BB.


Poland did not invade Czechoslovakia it retook the lands that Czechs took from Poland in 1919, the act itself i'm OK with the timing though was definitely bad.


Everything and here's another proof for you that Poles were the most pragmatic polticians in Europe.

The very reason why Poles didnt say "f*ck all" and withdraw to the great rivers where Germans would bleed out for weeks or months trying to cross was because it was widely suspected and expected that the western allies are looking for a cop out, no one believed they could just f*ck Poland so blatantly but everyone expected some form of it, thats why Poland didnt give an inch of her soil without a fight, not to provide Hitler with an excuse to pull of Czechoslovakia II.


I was talking countries of course i've got quite a few german friends, ugly f*ckers all of them but i love 'em but i'm still holding on to my thesis of german soft imperialism which means i prefer to be on guard, i'd prefer Poland to be on guard as well.

History / Should HMG compensate Poland and/or Polish veterans? [90]


Thats because you dont really know a lot about our history BB.


You're basing that on what? German negotiations and compromises involved taking huge chunks of Poland or exteritorial highways, both unacceptible to any country.


Propaganda does not reflect true policies, Germans had propaganda that said they're saving Jews when in fact they were out to gas them all and Germany couldnt avoid war even if she wanted to, not the way and direction in which she was developing.


Theeeere we go, german prejudices over little Poles, even you can't really shake 'em.

Polish high command estimated 1-2 months of defence so no one really believed anything, Poland infiltrated the Wechrmacht more then three years before 1939, by 1939 Poles knew how many tanks, planes and divisions Germans have, what kind of toilet paper their generals use and all assorted things so Poland knew it would lose


Again the stupid german racism, your backwards nation not only destroyed my country, not only did your country recover only by sucking the tit of USA but today you got the audacity to p*ss on people whom you have put in said situation.

As for Poland, it recognized Germany for what it was, a bunch of raving barbarians led by a lunatic, polish politicians as the only ones in Europe knew Germans will go to war, realised when and to what extent so Poland unlike the West was very pragmatic.


Kaczyński said many smart things albeit in a stupid manner, Germans are not, will not be our friends, despite your "together" spirit Germans undermine polish economy in more ways then one.

History / Should HMG compensate Poland and/or Polish veterans? [90]


Maginot line in itself was an example of absolutely crazy spending and the french army despite that line was none to shabby having more and better tanks than the Germans.


To be specific 5 days.


They provided Hungary with lots and lots of charity including over 120 self propelled guns and it served them well since hungarian army was crucial in providing canon fodder when Germany had none to spare,check when Budapest fell and how.


Maybe but by that time everyone had to be aware that war is coming, appeasement is understandable to a point, thats why i'm ticked off when people like Seanus bark at interwar polish politics.

Poland was essentially the only sane country who knew war is coming, no one in Poland desired it since Poles were well aware that alone they will lose but everyone knew it'll come and policies reflected that knowledge.

History / Should HMG compensate Poland and/or Polish veterans? [90]


Both France and UK were rolling in money, for both of them the alliance was a political tool as well hence the treason bit.


Where did you pick up that month?


Why? Germany did a lot of arming towards its allies, especially Hungary.


Peacefull or not Poland was the only one besides Russia who's military capacity enabled quick defeat of Germany and unlike Russia Poland would be largely dependent on the support of the Brits and Frogs hence its not only treason, its a stupid treason.

History / Should HMG compensate Poland and/or Polish veterans? [90]


You mean the regions that would otherwise be taken over by Germany? A completely understandable move.

Also it must be first said that Czechs invaded Zaolzie in 1919 using polish involvement elsewhere, 16.000 Czech soldiers and an armored train expelled polish guards (while murdering 30 defencless polish POWs including general Hallers brother) so yeah the only wrong Poles commited was moving in concert with Hitler.


Given the capacity of british industry not an investement at all.


No they would not, UK did not have any reasonable army untill late 1943, any and all land actions in Britain or direct support of France would be doomed to complete failure, at the same time Poland had a grand total of 1.3 milion men under arms, arming an ally who can fight and win the war for you and spare you destruction and direct involvement is not a preferable option for you?


Not with UK, its professional army was laughable in size (something around 60.000) and it needed years to make the force even resemble a coherent military power so from 1939-43 UK is a non factor, Poland on the other hand has a huge army and large reserves.

Either UK deploys its tiny force and loses or it arms someone who can actually do the fighting here and now.

History / Should HMG compensate Poland and/or Polish veterans? [90]


How did Hungary and Poles occupied it?


Such action wouldnt result in powerfull Poland, it would simply bolster polish offensive capabilities to a degree where war on two fronts would be implausible for Germany.


What justification for what war?

Po polsku / AUSTRALIJCZYK W POLSCE MA PROBLEMY Z KOMORNIKIEM! [3]

Przede wszystkim skontaktuj się z komornikiem i poproś o nakaz i inne druki urzędowe które ma obowiązek okazać, z tymi drukami udaj się do sądu rejonowego (jeśli nie masz pieniędzy na prawnika) tam uzyskasz pełniejszą informację.

Wszystko wskazuje na to że to twój partner wykorzystał twoją kartę, niestety to Ty jesteś odpowiedzialny przed prawem, skoro sąd zasądził egzekucję komorniczą to znaczy że byłeś nieuchwytny (w wypadku nie odbierania zawiadomień przez dłuższy czas karę można zasądzić zaocznie).

Nie wiem w jakim mieście się zatrzymałeś, mogę ci polecić kancelarie w Poznaniu, Warszawie i Wrocławiu, tak czy inaczej potrzebujesz usług adwokata.

History / Should HMG compensate Poland and/or Polish veterans? [90]

We're talking pre-war, stopping Germany required concerted preparations from 1936-7 onwards, Poland had two major harbors and Gdynia was the more used one so UK would have no trouble landing equipment, it could also do so through the romanian harbor of Constanta.

History / Should HMG compensate Poland and/or Polish veterans? [90]


There was a huge debate in France, before during and after the Maginot line was completed for and against it, De Gaulle was one of the largest opponents of the line proposing that France fields further 8 armored divisions and fully motorizes its entire army instead, time would show he was right.

France in 1939-40s could potentially produce up to 230 tanks a month which made her outproduce Germany (140) and UK (60) combined, Maginot line made sure there wouldnt be any money for that.

Provided Western Allies really wanted to help Poland and end the war quickly UK could have shifted as little as 20% its production in benefit of Poland in some sort of lend lease providing polish army with the hardware it lacked and France even the way it was would be enough to overrun Germany.

Not a single Brit would die, French wouldnt have to fight a long bloody war and Poles with the tanks/trucks from UK would be able to pull of an encircling manouver with the 1st inf division that originally failed and led to the collapse of the entire polish battle plan.

The main problem was that Poland was used by UK and France not as an ally but as a pawn to buy time except that neither govt had any working plan as to what to do with the given time.

History / Should HMG compensate Poland and/or Polish veterans? [90]


Actually Poland ignored the build up in Gdańsk because according to polish plans Gdańsk was supposed to be abandoned in case of war since it could not be contested militarily.


No idea i think the idea is idiotic.

The fact is UK promised help being unwilling and unable to deliver it, it could do quite a few things to bolster Poland but again there was no real will to do it, Poland, despite being assured of alliance was treated more as a means to buy time then anything else.

It could be understandable if UK and France used that time, but they just sat twiddling their thumbs, especially UK.

History / Role of Serbian medieval cavalry in formation of Polish hussars [20]


I love that piece of our history but what gets me depressed is that every stupid uneducated redneck kid (like you) who just discovered youtube can make a movie, result? The most glorious bit of Polish history gets dragged around by illiterate teenagers.

Ps.

I HATE the "With Fire and Sword" its a book that has epic potential and the movie that got made reeks of low budget, we can make epic history movies so the f*ck up is not excusable, just take a look at the awesomeness of "The Deluge":

youtube.com/watch?v=XNii3m9yJAw
youtube.com/watch?v=LNl0poj5z90&p=FD29E647AFAE79B8&playnext=1&index=42

The movie was f*cking epic and then comes "With Fire and Sword" with all its fail.


Winged Hussars aint hussars but its ok, not knowing anything about anything you have a long tradition of writing bullsh*t, at least you dont make so many spelling mistakes in english as you do in Polish.

History / The Grunwald Battle: Today is 600th anniversary of the greatest medieval battle. [66]


You can speak polish right? Mind if i recommend or even send over some books by Chomik or by mail?

Poland at the time of Grunwald battle had approximately 2.7 million people, Lithuania had around 350.000, Teutonic Order had approximately 650.0000.

While we dont know the exact numbers for both sides we do know the composition of the guest/mercenary forces for the Teutonic Order which constituted of 3000 French/Italian knights, 600 Czech infantry and 200 Welsh longbowmen. thats at most 4000 soldiers in an army at least 25.000 large (probably closer or above 30.000) the remainder were Germans.

There was also an indeterminate number of german guests but given that Malborg ran out of rooms a week into two month assembly and it had prepared dormitories for 3000 knights we can assume that they formed the vast bulk of guest cavalry.

Practically 90-95% of all knights and infantry who fought at Grunwald for TO were Germans since we know French fought Poles at the battle of Koronowo and no heavy cavalry survivded Grunwald on the German side so French couldnt have taken part since they obviously werent dead or captured.

As for Polish side, Poles constituted 100% of the heavy cavalry, 100% of the heavy infantry and more then half of light cavalry, Lithuanians having a population of on the polish voivodships wouldnt be able to field more than 6000-7000 men especially since they were in conflict with Novgorod at the time.

So this was most definitely a Polish-German battle, not only did Poles and Germans constitute the crushing majority of forces, commanders on both sides were polish and german (with the exclusion of Jagiełło) and all the fighting was done by ethnic polish and german units.

History / The Grunwald Battle: Today is 600th anniversary of the greatest medieval battle. [66]

Yes it was, they consisted more than 80% of the forces on both sides.

History / Zadvir'ya - Polish Thermopiles commemorated [15]

When will the Ukrainian side bring flowers to the polish victim of Ukrainian "freedom fighters" from UPA?

History / Zadvir'ya - Polish Thermopiles commemorated [15]

Except that where ukrainians failed Poles succeeded, as always.

History / WW2 hypothesis - if France And England weren't so timid, wimpy and scared of Hitler... [34]

First of all Blitzkrieg was developed by Brits, second you're postulating that Germans built a strategic and tactical concept on the data input provided by less than 40 tanks?

Blitzkrieg was never used or pioneered or even assesed in Spain, Germans took a british invention and made it better, they trained in Russia and in Germany and thats where the principles were fleshed out.


Not a chance, Stalin was a coward in that for example its arguable whether he would attack Poland without german invasion but he would always attack Germany, he was so terrified of it he just had to go to war.

Now Germany without Hitler and without invasion of Poland is more plausible, the moment Germany started sharing a border with Russia war was certain.

History / WW2 hypothesis - if France And England weren't so timid, wimpy and scared of Hitler... [34]


Poland was building its industry from scratch, it wouldnt be on par with Germany even given another 5 years, France on the other side could actually outproduce and outnumber Germany quite seriously.


Shelley Poland spent 35%-40% of its pathetic GDP on arms, it did a LOT to protect itself its just that within available resources its would never be enough.


The only way UK could have helped was by a serious military loan no later then in 1937, even polish politicians were fully aware that while France could help UKs help was just ink and intentions, another matter is that UK did not prepare as part of its appeasement policies.

Polish historiography has more to do with how Poland was shafted afterwards.

As for the countrys failure? Poland offered a challenge and a chance that franco-british forces did not exploit, Germany could have been easily defeated or at least brought to a table that'd end Hitlers regime, the fact is that outside of Poland no one realised or cared about how balls out dangerous Hitler was.

History / WW2 hypothesis - if France And England weren't so timid, wimpy and scared of Hitler... [34]


What did the Condors have to do with Guderian?

History / WW2 hypothesis - if France And England weren't so timid, wimpy and scared of Hitler... [34]


The point is Hitler rallied together all the geniuses, he had a gift to recognize valuable people and elevating them, thats what made Germany strong.

To give you an example.

No Hitler => no blitz tactics => war in Poland lasting at least four months => France invading and overruning Germany in a week.

There's a lot of other things and people that Hitler nudged in the right direction, without him Germany would fall on its face somewhere on the road to get vengence much ealier.

History / WW2 hypothesis - if France And England weren't so timid, wimpy and scared of Hitler... [34]

The guy who posted it is a troll so i'm not going to take you up on that here BB, just noticed his other thread.

History / Pole who burned himself to protest the 1968 Soviet invasion [81]


Oh come on Maregea is a historian if its a history discussion, a chef if its a cooking forum and when its a self-immolation thread he's been burned, this guy is to attention wh0res what Darth Vader was to aspiring Sith.


Had to research it, he bought the farm four days later.

History / WW2 hypothesis - if France And England weren't so timid, wimpy and scared of Hitler... [34]


In that Germany could have been defeated before the conflict could escalate? Yes.

Germans wanted war, the official version was that Versailles was unfair, the reality was that an average German was fed prussian bullsh*t about how awesome, superior and undefeatable his nation is, when they lost WW1 they just could not live with themselves without another war, diplomacy was not the way to go with Germany.

IF France and England started preparing for war at the same time as Germany (1935) and if France invaded within 2 weeks of Polands invasion in 1939 the war would end in several weeks, the Soviets might have not attack and without Hitler Germany wouldnt be able to pull it off later.