Paulina
21 Aug 2013
Life / The changing RCC habits of Poles [70]
Well, then I guess you guess wrong.
And what are those criteria, delph?
I know nothing of the precepts of the Church to be the criteria to judge whether people are Catholics or not.
I've also never heard that a Catholic stops being a practising Catholic when he/she doesn't go to church every single Sunday, but, let's say, every second Sunday or when he/she isn't fasting :)
Looks like you're more petty and bureaucratic than the Church :)
Here is the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c3a3.htm
"2041 The precepts of the Church are set in the context of a moral life bound to and nourished by liturgical life. The obligatory character of these positive laws decreed by the pastoral authorities is meant to guarantee to the faithful the very necessary minimum in the spirit of prayer and moral effort, in the growth in love of God and neighbor:"
It doesn't say that if you don't fulfil one of the precepts or whatever then you're not considered a practising Catholic, or even better, a Catholic in general.
Those precepts are supposed to guarantee sth not judge someone as far as I can see.
"Would say?" Did you actually ask them?
Did you ask them whether they consider themselves Catholics? And why they do (if they do)?
Did you ask them whether they go to church? Whether they believe in God? Whether they pray? Whether they are religious?
That would be a great opportunity to find out sth, if you have such friends. Ask them, if you're so interested in this subject.
Btw, as I wrote already in one of the threads I know people who are religious Catholics but they rarely go to church or almost never.
Oh, I'm sure it isn't 92.2% of practising Catholics. But the fact that one isn't going to church doesn't mean that this person isn't a believer and doesn't consider himself/herself a Catholic. He/she may be a lousy Catholic, but still a Catholic :)
So I don't know what practising or not practising has anything to do with being "right wing socially" (whatever that means). I'm a religious Catholic and I vote for PO. Just like majority of my family. Part of my family also votes for Ruch Palikota lol My grandma one time voted for PO, one time for PiS, but she doesn't go to church, because she's old and sick and the church is too far away for her. Interestingly enough she's quite critical of the local parson :)
The most religious (and I mean really religious and practising) of my classmates at highschool was very tolerant and liberal and a fan of Pedro Almodóvar films. There was something almost saint-like about her, everyone liked her - classmates, teachers, she was my friend and a kind of spiritual inspiration.
Another of my classmates was the "popular girl" type, she was rich, pretty and rather shallow, she liked partying hard, etc. To put it short - you wouldn't suspect her of ever becoming religious. She wasn't going to church and didn't like it. Then she suddenly converted, started going to church and her mum even bought her a Bible illustrated with works of art of famous artists and gilded edges of pages for her birthday. She told us it was because she had a dream in which the satan grabbed her, dragged her into darkness and told her she will go to hell. And she remained religious which didn't prevent her sharing room, living together, with the only gay boy I knew of in our highschool.
So, as you can see, people are different, even if they're religious, delph.
My mum also is a religious Catholic and votes for PO and detests PiS to the point that she can't even watch Kaczyński on TV - she changes channel when she sees him lol What's more she was brought up in the countryside and we all live in the land of PiS supporters.
Of course as far as voters are considered I really doubt there are any religious people voting for SLD, and probably the same thing can be said about the voters of Ruch Palikota. But in last parliamentary election Ruch Palikota got 10.02 % and SLD got 8.24 % of votes. PO got 39.18%, PiS got 29.89% and PSL 8.36%.
And we have to take into consideration that only 48.92% of Poles eligible for voting took part in those elections. So we don't know how the rest would vote.
Of course we also don't know how many atheists voted for PO, PiS and PSL.
Why is that?
Btw, I really, really doubt Harry made this thread because he wanted to understand anything. He made it to rub it in Polonius3' face that there was "a 45% fall in church attendance in just two decades". Polonius writes all the time that Poland is a Catholic country and it clearly gets on the nerves of the two of you. Plus Harry is obsessed with Polonius3.
And that's the reason of your nitpicking too, delph. You don't like the fact that still a lot of Poles declare themselves as Catholics. So you're trying to prove that they aren't really Catholics. So even if they consider themselves Catholics, you'll say they aren't "real Catholics" and this will make you feel better for some reason or at least you think you will pin Poloniu3's ears back :) I like you, delph, but I can see through what you guys are doing ;)
OK.
Btw, the data from RCC indicate how many Poles attend the Sunday mass on regular basis. So I guess "regularly" means every single Sunday. That's 40.0% of Poles going to church every Sunday. Only Malta has a higher result, did you know? It would be interesting to know how many people attend the Sunday mass "now and then".
If you're interested I've read there were 459 apostates in 2010, people who formally left the Catholic Church in Poland.
Of course, nothing surprising about this.
"A cornered animal"? Interesting comparison lol You mean the Church will react with mindless violence when it will be "weakened and divided"? How do you imagine it will react?
You are obsessed.
When they fail to meet the minimum expectations that Harry listed, I guess.
Well, then I guess you guess wrong.
Well, the Church has their own criteria that they judge by - you can only base it on that.
And what are those criteria, delph?
I know nothing of the precepts of the Church to be the criteria to judge whether people are Catholics or not.
I've also never heard that a Catholic stops being a practising Catholic when he/she doesn't go to church every single Sunday, but, let's say, every second Sunday or when he/she isn't fasting :)
Looks like you're more petty and bureaucratic than the Church :)
Here is the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c3a3.htm
"2041 The precepts of the Church are set in the context of a moral life bound to and nourished by liturgical life. The obligatory character of these positive laws decreed by the pastoral authorities is meant to guarantee to the faithful the very necessary minimum in the spirit of prayer and moral effort, in the growth in love of God and neighbor:"
It doesn't say that if you don't fulfil one of the precepts or whatever then you're not considered a practising Catholic, or even better, a Catholic in general.
Those precepts are supposed to guarantee sth not judge someone as far as I can see.
I dunno - among my friends, there's plenty of them who would say "I'm Catholic" to the question "what religion are you?" - but who don't go to church and so on.
"Would say?" Did you actually ask them?
Did you ask them whether they consider themselves Catholics? And why they do (if they do)?
Did you ask them whether they go to church? Whether they believe in God? Whether they pray? Whether they are religious?
That would be a great opportunity to find out sth, if you have such friends. Ask them, if you're so interested in this subject.
Btw, as I wrote already in one of the threads I know people who are religious Catholics but they rarely go to church or almost never.
If Poland was anywhere near 92.2% practising Catholic, the country would be far more right wing socially than it is.
Oh, I'm sure it isn't 92.2% of practising Catholics. But the fact that one isn't going to church doesn't mean that this person isn't a believer and doesn't consider himself/herself a Catholic. He/she may be a lousy Catholic, but still a Catholic :)
So I don't know what practising or not practising has anything to do with being "right wing socially" (whatever that means). I'm a religious Catholic and I vote for PO. Just like majority of my family. Part of my family also votes for Ruch Palikota lol My grandma one time voted for PO, one time for PiS, but she doesn't go to church, because she's old and sick and the church is too far away for her. Interestingly enough she's quite critical of the local parson :)
The most religious (and I mean really religious and practising) of my classmates at highschool was very tolerant and liberal and a fan of Pedro Almodóvar films. There was something almost saint-like about her, everyone liked her - classmates, teachers, she was my friend and a kind of spiritual inspiration.
Another of my classmates was the "popular girl" type, she was rich, pretty and rather shallow, she liked partying hard, etc. To put it short - you wouldn't suspect her of ever becoming religious. She wasn't going to church and didn't like it. Then she suddenly converted, started going to church and her mum even bought her a Bible illustrated with works of art of famous artists and gilded edges of pages for her birthday. She told us it was because she had a dream in which the satan grabbed her, dragged her into darkness and told her she will go to hell. And she remained religious which didn't prevent her sharing room, living together, with the only gay boy I knew of in our highschool.
So, as you can see, people are different, even if they're religious, delph.
My mum also is a religious Catholic and votes for PO and detests PiS to the point that she can't even watch Kaczyński on TV - she changes channel when she sees him lol What's more she was brought up in the countryside and we all live in the land of PiS supporters.
Of course as far as voters are considered I really doubt there are any religious people voting for SLD, and probably the same thing can be said about the voters of Ruch Palikota. But in last parliamentary election Ruch Palikota got 10.02 % and SLD got 8.24 % of votes. PO got 39.18%, PiS got 29.89% and PSL 8.36%.
And we have to take into consideration that only 48.92% of Poles eligible for voting took part in those elections. So we don't know how the rest would vote.
Of course we also don't know how many atheists voted for PO, PiS and PSL.
But... actually, understanding the RCC is pretty much vital to understanding Poland.
Why is that?
Btw, I really, really doubt Harry made this thread because he wanted to understand anything. He made it to rub it in Polonius3' face that there was "a 45% fall in church attendance in just two decades". Polonius writes all the time that Poland is a Catholic country and it clearly gets on the nerves of the two of you. Plus Harry is obsessed with Polonius3.
And that's the reason of your nitpicking too, delph. You don't like the fact that still a lot of Poles declare themselves as Catholics. So you're trying to prove that they aren't really Catholics. So even if they consider themselves Catholics, you'll say they aren't "real Catholics" and this will make you feel better for some reason or at least you think you will pin Poloniu3's ears back :) I like you, delph, but I can see through what you guys are doing ;)
A more detailed breakdown by age would be an interesting start, as would information about political affiliation.
OK.
Btw, the data from RCC indicate how many Poles attend the Sunday mass on regular basis. So I guess "regularly" means every single Sunday. That's 40.0% of Poles going to church every Sunday. Only Malta has a higher result, did you know? It would be interesting to know how many people attend the Sunday mass "now and then".
If you're interested I've read there were 459 apostates in 2010, people who formally left the Catholic Church in Poland.
Despite the rants of Polonius, I know a considerable amount of middle aged PO voters who would be called practising Catholics by anyone reasonable.
Of course, nothing surprising about this.
I don't think it's in anyone's interest to have a Church weakened and divided, not least because of how a cornered animal tends to react.
"A cornered animal"? Interesting comparison lol You mean the Church will react with mindless violence when it will be "weakened and divided"? How do you imagine it will react?
PO is doing a fair job co ntuing that legacy.
You are obsessed.