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Posts by Bieganski  

Joined: 21 Mar 2012 / Male ♂
Warnings: 1 - O
Last Post: 24 Mar 2018
Threads: Total: 17 / In This Archive: 17
Posts: Total: 888 / In This Archive: 650

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Bieganski   
27 Sep 2013
History / Khazars and their crimes in the Slavic lands of Poland [63]

He doesn't 'successfully argue' anything.

Not to your personal liking he doesn't. It's always hard for bigots to see their haughty beliefs about themselves and unjustified prejudices against others get completely ripped to shreds particularly by academia. But there is no denying that his book was the best seller in Israel and you can find him giving interviews in the main stream media in many countries. So what are you credentials compared to his? Oh, that's right, you don't have any.

One key factor is that DNA studies of the Ashkenazi population show no connection to the Khazars at all. They do however show a strong link to both the Sephardi population as well as other Semitic peoples of the Levant. Other pointers are the lack of Khazar surnames as opposed to the widespread Cohen and Levi names; the lack of Khazar place names in the traditional lands of the Ashkenazi and the lack of Turkic features among the Ashkenazis.

And here we all thought eugenics died in the ashes of Nazi Germany! And how even more bizarre that you personally post on PF all the time about "one race the human race!" but when it comes to the Jews you never get tired trying (and failing) to convince others that they and they alone have this peculiar "racial purity" all to themselves. Quit your BS already!

What's more believable? Hard scientific evidence from DNA studies, or internet racists...

I already answered that for all the Zionist trolls out there to read even though it is extremely difficult for them to do so.
Bieganski   
27 Sep 2013
History / Khazars and their crimes in the Slavic lands of Poland [63]

Not according to Johns Hopkins researcher Eran Elhaik (who is Ashkenazi Jewish himself)

Indeed. And just four years ago Shlomo Sand, a professor of history at Tel Aviv University, authored the best selling book in Israel titled "The Invention of the Jewish People."

His book successfully argues that modern Jews are descended from converts to Judaism. And these converts never lived in ancient Palestine but are from other cultures particular those around the Mediterranean, the Caucasus (i.e., Khazaria) and parts of Africa.

As for those who practiced Judaism under Roman rule in ancient Palestine there was no second "Exodus". The real myth going around is that that the Jews of ancient Palestine vanished for centuries only to mysteriously re-emerge again in the Pale of Settlement. Professor Sand's work proves that the Jews of ancient Palestine remained and eventually converted to Islam.

So who is more believable regarding this topic? Experienced, intelligent and respected university professors around the world who undertook careful research or the Zionist trolls who lurk on the fringes of society and use PF and other internet sites to spread their own fascist, even racist, propaganda?

Considering that today's Jews are the biggest advocates for having "multiculturalism" introduced in mostly homogenous European societies one would have thought they of all people would be celebrating their very own hodge-podge heritage. Oddly they don't and instead we are consistently met with their obtuse, vehement denials regarding their real origins.
Bieganski   
26 Sep 2013
News / How do Poles feel about the outcome of Germany's elections? [90]

Danzig no longer exists; Gdansk does exist. But I guess one may need to actually go to Gdansk in order to see that it is not what Danzig was. And of course your ignorance is so profound that you apparently don't know that Walesa isn't even from Gdansk.

As others have already pointed out to you Danzig was and still is the German name for Gdansk. I'm not surprised at all that this has to be explained to you. You obviously don't know this either but all cities evolve over time yet more often than not they retain much of their original character. Their histories are rarely if ever forgotten.

Despite centuries of war and partitions different regions in Poland still retain their own unique local flavor and Gdansk is not an exception to this. Land acquisitions and population transfer don't completely erase a city's or region's past and this is why the past always continues to influence the present. If you weren't so homebound and spent less time satiating your internet addiction you could discover this for yourself.

And I never said Wałęsa was originally from Gdansk either. I did point out before that he grew up in a region of Poland close to former areas once belonging to Prussia. It doesn't matter where he grew up anyway because his name is now virtually synonymous with Gdansk. All that time he lived and worked in Gdansk during his adult years would have made as much of an impression on him as he did on the city's history. Gdansk could rightly regard Wałęsa as an adopted son of its own. And so to whistle Wałęsa's own tune about uniting with Germany then there is nothing misplaced about calling him a Danziger.

I wonder why some people are trying to make out that Walesa is in some way 'German' now that he has made this proposal.

Wałęsa is the one who wants Poland to merge with Germany. His call for unification at first seemed to come out of the blue. But when taken in context that he chose to express his views right at the time of this year's German federal elections (in which some Silesians participated in) then it just no longer looked sudden or even coincidental. I already outlined a possible Prussian romanticism for Wałęsa's motive. This could very well be something he acquired earlier in life but always kept to himself.

Whatever his reasons he is now in his sunset years so he couldn't care less at this point of the actual consequences that would result from such a unification. It would be everyone else though who would have to suffer the fallout (i.e., erosion of language, culture, identity, etc.) and I don't see the Germans as the ones who would be being willing to become Polonized in any potential union.

Interesting. I was younger when I moved to Poland than Walesa was when he moved to Gdansk. Let me guess: the 'living in a place makes you from that place' rule also doesn't apply to the generations of Jews who lived in Poland for centuries but are still considered by your ilk to not be Polish.

This thread isn't about you or the Jews. And you know full well that it's been thrashed out many times already here on PF about how you and your ilk always prefer to live apart from wider society no matter which countries are kind enough to host you. Now stick to the topic of this thread or go start or resurrect a different one.

Do feel very welcome to quote a post in which I say that I've been assimilated by Poland.

Gladly:

Interesting. I was younger when I moved to Poland than Walesa was when he moved to Gdansk. Let me guess: the 'living in a place makes you from that place' rule also doesn't apply to the generations of Jews who lived in Poland for centuries but are still considered by your ilk to not be Polish.

Bieganski   
25 Sep 2013
News / How do Poles feel about the outcome of Germany's elections? [90]

Living and/or working in Gdansk does not make somebody a 'Danziger'. I'd be astounded if Walesa ever even went to Danzig.

Why am I not surprised you foolishly think Danzig is something distinct from Gdansk?

Although I note that you consider living and working in a place for years makes somebody of that place. I assume that you also now wish to say that I am Polish, don't you.

In your case no, it doesn't apply.

You got the photo proving I live in Poland and have a Polish bank account.

Blurry and cropped photos of still images of till receipts are not proof of assimilation.
Bieganski   
25 Sep 2013
News / How do Poles feel about the outcome of Germany's elections? [90]

This cant be for real.

Many news outlets have covered Wałęsa's remarks. Sure people can dismiss him as being an old aged crank at this point. However, it seems there is more at play here.

Wałęsa's early life and much of his adulthood was spent in or near lands once considered part of Prussia. And there can be no denying that while borders, flags and even languages may change over time local attitudes and historical memories still live on generation after generation.

Additionally, I shared a report just a few days ago about how Germany permitted the German minority in Silesia to vote in the German federal elections this past weekend.

So when you consider Danziger Wałęsa's call to remove the border with Germany being made right after Silesians voted in German elections you can definitely see a pincer movement being made to reconstitute the old Prussian territory. Just look at any historical map of the old German kingdom and this becomes clear:

Prussia and Poland
Bieganski   
25 Sep 2013
News / How do Poles feel about the outcome of Germany's elections? [90]

Lech Wałęsa is so pleased that he is advocating for a unification with Germany:

Fury in Poland as former leader Lech Walesa says the country should unite with Germany to 'expand economic and defence cooperation'

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2430763/Lech-Walesa-says-Poland-join-Germany-expand-economic-defence-cooperation.html

- Ex-Polish president demanded eroding borders between European states

- Claimed the old borders no longer mattered and globalisation is 'on horizon'

- Said Poland and Germany could unite as latter had admitted its war crimes

He for one is obviously in awe of Germany after years of Merkel's stewardship.

Has he become a crypto-Prussian perhaps?
Bieganski   
22 Sep 2013
News / Silesians Vote in German Federal Elections [23]

AS GERMANS prepare to cast their vote in federal elections on September 22nd, in neighbouring Poland a group of Polish citizens are also debating whether or not to give Angela Merkel, the chancellor, a few more years in office. For the first time Poland's tiny German minority is allowed to vote in German elections. The freedom stems from a decision last year by Germany's constitutional court allowing Germans living outside the country to vote, even if they were not born there. The decision has been gratefully received by Poland's German community, estimated to be around 350,000 strong.

Source: The Economist, "Angela Merkel's voters in Lower Silesia"

I am sure those in the Silesian Separatist Movement will use this cross border voting right to further their own cause. Others may dismiss all of this as mere gesture politics since those Silesians who are eligible to vote are quite small in numbers and those who actually vote are likely to be even smaller.

For me it is just another example of a trend among EU states to recognize their ethnic and linguistic diaspora even when their ties have become more and more tenuous over the decades.

I posted about this previously regarding the Polish government's declared and pro-active interest in protecting the culture and rights of Poles who have become citizens abroad; particularly in Lithuania.

And this past April the Czech government made a very substantial donation to a town in the American state of Texas following a fertilizer plant explosion for the following reason:

The Czech foreign minister said while on a trip to Brussels his country will donate $200,000 to West, Texas, where a fertilizer plant explosion killed 15. Karel Schwarzenberg, the foreign minister, made the announcement in Brussels Tuesday, saying most of the money will be used to rebuild the Sokol building in the town, Radio Prague reported. Three-quarters of the inhabitants of West, Texas, are of Czech descent. Sokol is a gymnastic society founded in 1862 to promote Czech culture and social life.

Source: UPI, "After blast, Czech Republic makes donation to West, Texas."

It is clear that after years of EU expansion and open border policies (both internally to any and all EU citizens as well as de facto to anyone else on the planet who felt like showing up) more and more individual EU states have become keen on identifying with and helping those with whom they share a common history and a common heritage.

True. That is one of reasons why Polish, Czechs, Slovak and Bulgarian youth group and coordinate in order to support Serbians

Perhaps, but my thread is about elected governments in the EU recognizing and extending a helping hand and even citizenship-like rights to their own national minority groups which have long existed in other countries.
Bieganski   
11 Sep 2013
Genealogy / What exactly is a Polish-American? [16]

Most people don't give a flying hoot whether their ancestors were Polish, Irish, German or Marsian. If you were born in the US, you are American. End of.

You are absolutely wrong about that.

And your obtuse comment should be taken in the context where only last January you went off on a pedantic rant denying Mt. Kosciusko is Australia's tallest mountain while insisting (incorrectly) over and over again that another peak way offshore by Antarctica and named after some unimportant Scotsman is. Since you were wrong from the outset your tirade back then had nothing to do with a difference of meters but every about you needing to rally to defend the name of some unknown dead Brit who helped colonize Australia to the detriment of the Aboriginals.

But if you really believe most people don't give a flying hoot about things like ancestry then you shouldn't be displaying anything even remotely regarded as nationalistic yourself.

The fact is many, many people all around the world care a lot about who they are and where they came from. It is important in many families to pass knowledge and traditions of their past from generation to generation. Others, for whatever reason like family or social upheavals, have to research and rediscover their past later on in life.

Any diaspora (who also often make up minority groups in other countries) have rights to preserve their identities both under UN conventions and in protections offered in national laws of many host countries. Furthermore any violations against them are often highlighted by human rights groups.

The Polish Embassy and consulates in America (and many other countries around the world) often attend and host events for local Polish communities. And look at President Komorowski expressing concern about Polish minorities rights in neighboring Lithuania.

15min.lt/en/article/in-lithuania/polish-minority-will-vanish-without-polish-language-education-says-president-komorowski-in-vilnius-525-196694

The article in the link even states:

"In Komorowski's words, the Polish state is paying ever more attention to its national minorities living abroad."

This is official Polish government policy and I have no doubt that you are sitting there at your computer scowling in frustration since Poland flat out doesn't share your boorish view that if you weren't born in Poland then you aren't Polish.

And for you to say being born in the US makes you an American is an extremely simplistic interpretation of reality on your part. Every family's circumstances are different and not every woman who gives birth in America is an American citizen. US laws may grant American citizenship to a child born there (i.e., the "anchor baby") but this is not to say that any such babies will grow up in America or ever chose to exercise any right to citizenship there. There are scores of non-US children born in the US who retain and exercise the citizenship of their non-US biological parents. And you can find plenty of recent articles too about more and more people who actually have US citizenship are migrating each year and taking up citizenship in other countries.

Even then, what is American? It doesn't matter what you personally think qualifies a person as being American. Technically anyone in North America (Canada, the USA and Mexico) can call themselves an American. Same too for anyone living in a country in Central America and South America. But they don't because they know, unlike you, that they have their own unique national identities and each one is a tapestry of many different cultures from within.

If you went to the USA and asked them what it means to be American you could get over 300,000,000 different opinions on that.
Bieganski   
11 Sep 2013
Genealogy / What exactly is a Polish-American? [16]

Polish-American (just like Polish-French, Polish-Swede, etc.) is a way of recognizing your heritage along with the current foreign (i.e., non-Polish) citizenship you hold.

Maybe you were born in Poland and immigrated but have no plans to return. Perhaps your immediate blood relatives and distant ancestors came from Poland but your current status living abroad excludes you from holding Polish citizenship.

It's a personal choice how you wish to self-identify though. Some take it further by seeking out active Polonia events in their local communities to learn and continue the Polish language and customs. Others in the diaspora make it a point to visit Poland as often as they can or even seek ways to invest in Poland's economy. And then there are those who resettle in Poland and work to qualify to obtain Polish citizenship if they don't have it.

Lastly there are some for whom being Polish-(whatever) is just a casual acknowledgement of their ancestry but little else. This last group often have too many distractions in their lives. Or they have sacrificed their own Polish identity and heritage in favor of neo-bolshevik "multiculturalism" which itself celebrates all cultures except those with European origins.
Bieganski   
7 Sep 2013
USA, Canada / Polonia picket BBC office in New York [15]

Strange, isn't it?

It only goes to show how utterly brainwashed and manipulated some people are.

Very true. They are getting worked up over nothing - literally.

Hopefully they will see the news from this week of Russia stating the obvious about Britain: "a small island no one listens to" telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/10290964/A-small-island-no-one-listens-to-the-best-of-Britains-insults.html

This is the one fact that Poles, Russians and the entire international community can agree on!
Bieganski   
31 Aug 2013
Love / I Love a Polish Girl (I'm from India) [28]

America was founded by the same ancestors as your own. You are the one who shares the same DNA, culture, and approach to cuisine as Americans not me.
Bieganski   
31 Aug 2013
Love / I Love a Polish Girl (I'm from India) [28]

Says the British foreigner whose own godforsaken corner of Blighty has given the world such Epicurean delights like the deep fried Mars bar and whose national dish is a gruesome stodge of ground-up animal organs stuffed in its own stomach.
Bieganski   
25 Aug 2013
Life / What makes a man a Pole? what does it mean to be a Pole? [187]

The Ministry of the Interior spells out Polish citizenship requirements: msw.gov.pl/en/documents/ways-of-acquiring-poli/793,Ways-of-acquiring-Polish-citizenship.html

America and other nations may offer unconditional Jus Soli determinations for citizenship to any child born on their soil regardless of the status of the parents. But Poland's rules make it clear that a child born in Poland would either have to have been abandoned by foreign parents or both parents of a child would have to be stateless persons in order for the child to be regarded as Polish.

Furthermore the simplistic view that in order to be Polish you have to be born in Poland ignores the reality of children of Polish citizens being born and raised abroad. No one in their right mind would say that a child born to Polish diplomats or Polish expats stationed in say China is now Chinese.
Bieganski   
24 Aug 2013
USA, Canada / Polish married to a Dominican and want to Return to Europe. [13]

If you settle in Spain then you will need to work with their immigration authorities regarding the status of your husband.

Bear in mind though that Spain's current unemployment rate is nearly 30%. You may be able to sort out your right and your partner's right to reside there (or in another EU country) but actually finding work to support yourselves is another reality you need to take into consideration.
Bieganski   
24 Aug 2013
News / 100,000 new jobs for less qualified workers in Poland [13]

I wonder if Signor Pedrino himself has moved to Poland with his family and belongings?

I assume so. The article also mentioned:

Mr Pedroni says he has received death threats and will not be returning to Italy anytime soon.

Bieganski   
24 Aug 2013
News / 100,000 new jobs for less qualified workers in Poland [13]

I wonder what Polish workers would have done if someone had pulled that on them?

LIke in Italy there would be outrage and it would get a lot of press and political attention. But business is business, the EU is a free market place, and millions of Poles have demonstrated for years now to be very adaptable and willing to take advantage of opportunities wherever they are located. Depending on the age of the workers and their relationship with the employer I can imagine some of the younger ones would quite likely move with company if they were told they could still keep their jobs and the business remained within the EU.
Bieganski   
24 Aug 2013
News / 100,000 new jobs for less qualified workers in Poland [13]

International manufacturers don't see Poland as having a low skilled workforce but rather a better business-friendly environment:

[telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/10262743/Italian-factory-owner-moves-company-to-Poland-while-staff-are-on-holiday.html]

Italian factory owner moves company to Poland while staff are on holiday:

It was an audacious move that has divided public opinion in Italy and brought into focus the country's low productivity and high labour cost crisis.

Earlier this month, the owner of an electrical components factory in the north of the country waved his employees off on their summer holidays. Then, without informing them, he moved the entire operation, lock, stock and barrel, to Poland.

Fabrizio Pedroni, 49, said he was driven to the drastic course of action because his factory, located near the city of Modena, had not turned a profit for five years and he was being strangled by high salaries, crippling taxes and dismal rates of productivity.

Source: telegraph
Bieganski   
21 Aug 2013
Genealogy / Polish blood only makes up 1% of your "Polishness" [77]

It's sounds like one of the British migrants who agitate against Polonia on PF sent you a PM. If so they were being quite generous to say you were 1% Polish.

But seriously, if you say you were born in Poland to Polish citizens but don't have a passport or other citizenship documents then contact the nearest Polish embassy or consulate in your area to help you out.

It is not for the passing man on the street to determine or deny your heritage, citizenship status or right to return to Poland.

Don't worry about not knowing everything about Poland. Not everyone knows what is happening on their own street let alone their own country.

If culturally and linguistically you were raised in another country then this can be a barrier but nothing you can't overcome with time and effort. Besides, many Polish children have been and still are raised outside of Poland.
Bieganski   
15 Aug 2013
Life / One of more conspicuous Polish traits - inconsequence? [37]

as long as most people in Poland prefer to have crosses on walls, they shall hang there.

It's always a minority on the extreme ends of the political spectrum who make the biggest fuss of having crosses displayed or not. So if there is an attitude of inconsequence towards each other then I'd say it is limited to the fanatics.

People's attitudes about religion change over time and between generations. But by and large most people know the cross has been used in Poland for centuries and so the cross is seen as a harmless symbol which in some ways connects us with our past for historical reasons rather than religious convictions. No different than Britain, Switzerland and the Nordic countries using the cross in their flags or other state symbols.

I know many people who stopped going to church long ago from disliking the parish priest to being struck by infirmities. But they still have crosses in their homes and wear them as jewelry. They would never demand a cross be removed from a government building or school just because they personally decided to discontinue attending regular worship. But if the crosses were removed they all know life would still go on.

For them crosses are now more a talisman and a cultural tradition rather than an explicit endorsement of Christianity in general or Roman Catholicism in particular.
Bieganski   
14 Aug 2013
Life / How is the acceptation of foreigners in Poland? [29]

He's just asking.

It's a topic that has been asked and answered many times on here. The reality is there are far more low skilled, poorly educated, criminally inclined and discriminatory people around the world than you will ever find in Poland. And this has nothing to do with population differences but everything to do with social attitudes.

It isn't a matter that Poland should be rolling out the red carpet for anyone but that Poland shouldn't be treated as a doormat by those who see it as only as the next economic hub where to make money for themselves.
Bieganski   
14 Aug 2013
Life / How is the acceptation of foreigners in Poland? [29]

It never ceases to amaze how some people present themselves on here. A nonstop march of oblivious denizens of this world and their endless rehashed threads which enquire about or unjustifiably accuse Poles collectively of being racist, xenophobic and prone to violence. It is as if their own countries (which oddly they are so keen on leaving) are a completely racially diverse (yet colorblind) crime-free egalitarian paradise.

But let's look for instance at Brazil since the OP claims to be from there:

Brazil 7th-most violent country, as 1.1 million murdered in 30 years-report.

Source: Agence France-Presse

The survey showed that violence in Brazil, once concentrated in major metropolitan areas such as Sao Paulo and Rio, has spread nationwide over the past 10 years to the hinterland of most states, especially in the north, a trend that coincides with the expansion of new economic hubs.

Some 77 percent of young people murdered were Afro-Brazilians in a country where nearly 52 percent of the population is of African descent.

"This magnitude cannot be attributed to the continental size of Brazil," the study warned, pointing out that among the world's most populous countries, only Mexico comes close to Brazil with 22 homicides for 100,000 inhabitants.

And contary to a popular belief in recent years, most murders in the country are not linked to organized crime and drug trafficking but are perpetrated for trivial or impulsive reasons, they said.

So rather than the OP implying that Poland needs to assure him that she will be a good host it is OP and others like him who need to be demonstrating that they will be a well behaved guest.
Bieganski   
8 Aug 2013
History / If Poles were antisemitic, would they ...? [240]

I couldn't care less if you like the semites, the hittites or the midianites.

But you care enough to tell me so.

Just stop setting up straw arguments and fake quotes so that you can knock them down, as if you're fearlessly debunking a myth

Straw arguments, fake quotes and myths? But that's the essence of religious beliefs particularly the Abrahamic faiths. I must say I've never been mistaken for a priest or rabbi like this before.

Face it, you are just showing that you are extremely uncomfortable when someone comes along and doesn't express fawning opinions about Jews. You're typically thin skinned so your reaction isn't surprising.

No, we don't cry that. When the hell do we ever go telling people that we're chosen?

Of course you do. You just don't like it when others point it out to you.

And what does Zionism have to do with "Chosenness".

Just ask any Jewish settler camped out on stolen Palestinian land or the ones that tear down Palestinian olive trees or the ones that abuse and even kill Palestinians with impunity while Israeli stormtroopers stand close by watching and doing nothing to stop these crimes.There are scores of raw videos and propaganda pieces online of them displaying their fanatical Zionist beliefs of being "Gawd's Chosen." This is their battle cry as they carry out human rights abuses which the UN has repeatedly passed resolution after resolution condemning such behavior. Does the tyrant Netanyahu do anything to stop the terror being carried out under his nose? Of course not. He gives the settlers even more subsidies courtesy of the Zionists lobbying corrupt politicians in capitals all around the world for money in order to fund this campaign of slow genocide.

Zionism was a political and cultural movement to promote the idea of Jews returning to their homeland to be independent, reviving the Hebrew language and settling the land. Nothing to do with any sense of superiority.

Right. Sure. You may want the world to believe that Jews living in Israel and Jews outside supporting Israel are really just a bunch of free-loving peaceniks. But this lie of yours simply isn't convincing. It is clear for all to see that Israel is armed to the teeth including possessing nuclear weapons (unlike other countries in the region) and all the while it treats the Palestinians like farm animals. And the justification they use? "Gawd gave us this land."

Yep, no sense of superiority; never a claim of being "chosen."

You got that right. We won't. And we'll draw our own conclusions about that.

Jews were only some of the victims not all of the victims.

Who are you quoting here? We don't say that Jews are the only victims of hate in the world.

When the media or politicians or academics discuss the Holocaust who gets mentioned every single time? The Jews. And how often in comparison do the millions upon millions of other victims get mentioned? Virtually never and in the rare times that they are mentioned it is immediately downplayed.

And I guess you are going to tell us that Jews have never moaned about having to move from country to country, century after century, because of how badly the rest of the world has treated them. But then there is always the big inconsistency about this when Jews start to brag of contributing so much everywhere they've been. Hmmm, now how can the Jews be constantly on a forced march and even slaughtered but still somehow manage to have so much free time and resources to supposedly contribute so much to of all people their many alleged persecutors?

And why do threads get frequently started on here about otherwise ignored "studies" from de facto and de jure Zionist organizations about which countries are the most attendant to the presence of a Jew and which ones could careless because they got enough important things like their own native population to worry about? Why are such "studies" even carried out at all if not for propaganda purposes?

And did you know that America's State Department has a Special Envoy to Monitor and Combat Anti-Semitism? Really?! Talk about a "woe is us" mentality that has become fully bureaucratized!

Now which other real victims in this world get this level of public and expensive attention and assistance? None.

You're just an obnoxious overly-defensive person who has a problem with Jews.

That's rich for an admitted Zionist to be calling anyone else obnoxious. And if you weren't an overly-defensive person you wouldn't have found the need to reply to me point by point like you did.

That's your problem, not mine.

And yet you took the trouble to tell me so.

You really need take sometime out for some serious self-reflection. Some solid time on a sofa with a good shrink wouldn't go amiss either.

I stress that the poster in question is not Polish.

And this remark coming from a British migrant who teaches English and never posts anything in Polish despite claiming to have lived in Poland for several years now. Yep, the same sort who would waste hours arguing that he himself is somehow Polish but someone like Zbigniew Brzezinski isn't.

Talk about having bizarre delusions! Cuckoo! Cuckoo! LOL!

Psst, I'll let you in on a little secret. There's really only two people here on the planet. You and me using 7 billion different identities. LOL!
Bieganski   
7 Aug 2013
History / If Poles were antisemitic, would they ...? [240]

I hope by many you mean almost the whole pre-war Jewish population of Poland, those 3.5 million people, of whom 10% survived.

Yes, there were survivors and today there are an estimated 14 million Jews in the world. They are free to move to Poland but choose not to. It has nothing to do with the past. Not all Jews in the world can trace their roots back to Poland anyway. Poland can be as foreign to them as Bhutan.

It's just not economically or socially wise for them to start life over from scratch in Poland. Now if they were to be given heavy subsidies, free homes built on stolen land, free education, assistance in finding employment, and cradle to grave care like they get in Israel then you may peak their interest.

What Prussian or Celtic influence do Poles remember and cherish today? Yes, there are a few Celtic stone circles in Poland. Come on...... it is 21 century, Jews made 10% of Polish population only 70 years ago while Prussians left their trace in Polish history with a few dozen names of villages and towns in north-east Poland 700 years ago. Can we compare these two groups at all????

The influence is gone because they just died out. No effort was ever made to reconstitute what was known about them. Same will be said one day of the lands and people Poland lost to Lithuania, Ukraine or Belarus after the war. Sure some will point to the land gained from Germany and about expulsions and population transfers but this doesn't discount that the lands and Poles in the east were every bit a part of the Polish population and Polish identity only 70 years ago as well.

But never mind how Poland looked 70 years or 700 years ago. What's important now is how Poland will look in 100 year or 700 years from today.

Poland has a newer generation of homegrown talent and their own take on culture as well as what is being contributed by newer minorities in Poland from other parts of the world. They will shape the future. Jews could play a part if they want to but I see no reason to court them ahead of anyone else. If they don't want to migrate on their own in the first place then they couldn't possibly be interested in being productive members of society.

Even if they did come there is no guarantee they would be interested in maintaining a Jewish heritage so it makes little sense why anyone else should. Alternatively they could become modern day zealots of Judaism on Polish soil and have no interest or intent in fully assimilating. Now who would want that? We often see that played out now in the posts made by certain members of PF.
Bieganski   
7 Aug 2013
History / If Poles were antisemitic, would they ...? [240]

Yet marginalizing a national group of such significance as the Jews in pre-War Poland is to do them a tremendous disservice, in my opinion.

Jews are far from marginalized in Poland or anywhere else for that matter. How much more recognition needs to be given?

They were destroyed because of who they were, not what they did.

They were not destroyed. If the Jews had been destroyed there wouldn't be any of them around today.

Additionally, Poland wasn't decimated and occupied by the Nazis just because there were Jews living on the territory. Hitler and his party had as much spiting hatred for Poles as he did for Jews. Poland didn't suffer partition before that because of the presence of Jews.

Furthermore, Poles who have worked or settled in different countries over the centuries have often faced ridicule and discrimination right up to the present day simply because they are Polish.

Human history is full of accounts of bad behavior including genocide and the vast majority of it has never been directed against Jews alone.

Therefore, to merely take their achievements for one's personal or collective enrichment, without crediting them...

I already said that Jews were part of Poland's history and people should be made aware of this. However, it's one thing to acknowledge their individual or collective contribution to Polish history and quite another to effectively or literally idolize them for it.

...that is, paying them the debt of gratitude which they are richly owed...

Debt of gratitude? They are richly owed?

Are these things done for you where you live because on the heritage you happen to share with others in the past who achieved things in life?

Come off it!

is tantamount to being sort of prostitute who collects money, wealth from clients whom they may in fact despise, yet offers them little to any true thanks.

Sounds like the sort of people who lobby hard in North America and Europe on behalf of the "Jewish State of Israel."

Hmm, actually, Polish Jews can be role models too. E.g., I would like my kids to have such talent as Brzechwa or Tuwim had who wrote wonderful poems for children, once translated by one of PF members:

That's an private matter what parents want their children to learn about. I think any school curriculum should cover a broad scope of history and historical figures.

Come on, let`s exploit this nostalgia till we can. I am pretty sure when I am gone from this world, all nostalgia will vanish with me. :):):)

It's natural to be attracted to the idealized notions of the past. But I don't think Lithuania, Belarus and Ukraine would go along with another reunification with Poland just to recreate the Pale of Settlement.

By vanished you mean Holocaust?

No. The Jews didn't vanish from the Holocaust although many died along with Poles and other victims. The numbers of Jews in Poland have obviously declined.

By vanishing I was referring to other peoples who are known, or have been suggested, or were discovered to have had a presence in Poland's shifting borders over millennia but have long since disappeared. In my earlier example I cited Neanderthal man. I could have mentioned the Celts or Prussians as well.
Bieganski   
7 Aug 2013
History / If Poles were antisemitic, would they ...? [240]

The point I was debating was the comparison between Poland's Jews and extinct Neanderthals, a parallel I frankly find ludicrous!!

I never said Jews were neanderthals. Every country has an intriguing history of different actors. Some stayed, others left. The point is that it is wrong to focus just on one group from the past and say that is what we are all about today especially when that group has declined or vanished.

People need to know about the past but equally important is to have figures and role models that most people living today can relate to.
Bieganski   
7 Aug 2013
History / If Poles were antisemitic, would they ...? [240]

One of many but of outstanding importance. Just recall how many Polish writers and poets were assimilated Jews. I mentioned them in another thread.

Yes, they are a chapter in Poland's history. Maybe in the future some Jews living in Poland will live up to the talents of those that came before them and do their part to make contributions on a comparable scale. But that's for them to do.

In the meantime Poland should look to the present and encourage the very best out of Poland's youth as well as among the newly arrived immigrants from other parts of the EU, Ukraine, Belarus and Vietnam. It was only several years ago that Poland was being hailed in political circles on both sides of the Atlantic as part of the "new Europe."

Poland should never forget its heritage but it shouldn't be hobbled by hyped-up nostalgia for a bygone era either. We don't see monuments to neanderthals now do we? Yet we know they were once here.
Bieganski   
7 Aug 2013
History / If Poles were antisemitic, would they ...? [240]

Of course not. As Włodzimierz mentioned before, the contribution of Jews into Polish culture is so big that Polish Jews certainly deserve to have monuments and museums.

A lot of different groups have contributed to Polish culture over the centuries with the Jews just being one of many. Again one of my favorite sites: commonwealth.pl

Anyway I think modesty is the best policy. Certainly a lot classier. If a museum or art gallery wants to put on events to show the mix of other cultures from other parts of the world or single out those who have lived in Poland then I don't think anyone would mind seeing a few rotating exhibits about Jews from time to time.

Of course, you would see it as money 'blown' because you can't stand the thought of Jews in Poland.

Jews have shown over the centuries that they go pretty much wherever they like. If they don't stay it's more for economic reasons than anything else. Any honors regarding Jews need to go to the host countries which have shown tolerance, hospitality, and given them opportunities over generations. Have places like Israel or large Jewish-only neighbors ever returned the compliment? Nowhere near in kind.
Bieganski   
6 Aug 2013
History / If Poles were antisemitic, would they ...? [240]

Why do people believe it is important to be pro-semitic (as in the often incorrect usage of the word Semitic to mean Jews and Jews only)? Should Jews be given more attention and respect than people of other faiths? No, they shouldn't. Should Jews be given preferential treatment over Poles, Turks, Haitians or anyone else on the planet for that matter? Certainly not. Jews squat to take a dump just like everyone else. They grow old, get sick and die too. Most of them are of average and even below average intelligence and live lackluster lives. Some end up in prison or live rough on the streets due to bankruptcy, alcoholism, drug abuse and mental illness. They are mere mortals.

"But we are Zionists and the Jews are "the Chosen ones!" you cry. Answer: Zionism is fascism based on ridiculous self-serving fairytales which unfortunately have proved to be popular with the most gullible among us.

"Never forget the Holocaust!" you demand! Face it, the Jews weren't the only ones to suffer and perish no matter what spin you put on the numbers. The life a Jew is not more special and precious than the life of anyone else. To believe otherwise is pure chauvinism if you are a Jewish and a demonstration of shameful obsequiousness if you are not.

"Jews are always singled out for verbal and physical abuse!" Oh no they're not. Anyone can be a victim of a crime or someone else's bullying. We wouldn't need so many laws if this wasn't the case. Jews have shown they can utter words and conduct themselves towards others in the most intolerant fashion no different than most. So if a Jew feels aggrieved by someone then it is a local matter to be taken up with the parties involved. The world need not hold its breath.

Therefore, selling tourist tat and building monuments and museums about Jews is sheer folly. The money blown on such navel-gazing projects would be better spent cleaning up the environment or building and maintaining public parks.