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Posts by Bratwurst Boy  

Joined: 2 Apr 2007 / Male ♂
Warnings: 1 - Q
Last Post: 25 Nov 2024
Threads: Total: 8 / In This Archive: 2
Posts: Total: 11833 / In This Archive: 4472
From: Berlin, Germany
Speaks Polish?: No
Interests: his helmet

Displayed posts: 4474 / page 132 of 150
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Bratwurst Boy   
7 Aug 2009
History / Does Poland deserve credit for the 1989 Revolution? [87]

You are losing possibility to learn at least something about Alemania.

You telling me at least how Alemania could "steal" the glory from Poland??? As you know everything about my fatherland it seems!

You are a typical Pole Borrka, all hot air and a big mouth - no substance! And always ready to blame everybody else..
Bratwurst Boy   
7 Aug 2009
History / Does Poland deserve credit for the 1989 Revolution? [87]

I'm not referring to the "stolen glory" problem.

Well that was the topic with you following with an anti-german platitude again (as usual).

Now I want some hard support for your comments...to much asked for? You chicken?

It has got exactly the same "Prussian tradition" like Poznan or Wielkopolska lol.

Well...everything in what is now Poland has germanic roots! We were there first (well...after the celts that is).

So..such a comment is never wrong! :)

Bur recently I had a long discussion with some young Germans who were deeply convinced of the GDR-leadership in fighting communism.

Well...you also seem to happen to know only Germans who wish the wall back up or who detest the Ossis etc.
If I'm honest I don't believe you anymore...you lost the plot! :(
Bratwurst Boy   
7 Aug 2009
History / Does Poland deserve credit for the 1989 Revolution? [87]

Yes, another myth is that Silesia was German for nearly 800 years, while the province was grabbed from Austria only as late as in 1741.

Even longer actually :)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silesia#History

History

Silesia has been inhabited from time immemorial by people of multiple ethnic groups.Germanic tribes were first recorded within Silesia in the 1st century....

Then:

...
In the Middle Ages, Silesia was divided among many independent duchies ruled by various Silesian dukes of the Piast dynasty.
During this time, cultural and ethnic German influence increased due to immigrants from the German-speaking components of the Holy Roman Empire....

Next:

...Silesia subsequently became a possession of the Bohemian crown under the Holy Roman Empire in the 14th century, and passed with that crown to the Habsburg Monarchy of Austria in 1526.
The Duchy of Crossen was inherited by Margraviate of Brandenburg in 1476 and, with the renunciation by King Ferdinand I and estates of Bohemia in 1538, it became anintegral part of Brandenburg...

And so on...
Germans have always lived here...Slavs were the late comer...as usual!

It needed the nice and brave and saintly Poles to end that.
Your history school really sucks!
If there is a people believing in lots of myths about their past and their national character it's the Poles...I prove that again and again here!
Bratwurst Boy   
7 Aug 2009
History / Does Poland deserve credit for the 1989 Revolution? [87]

Germans tend to create myths which are hardly in line with historical truth.

HOW???
Tell me??? That's what the topic is about, isn't it?
Germany stealing somehow "again" the glory from the Poles for 1989!

HOW??? Do you really think Germany has any influence over the international news broker? Forcing the journalists at gun point to show the wall instead the shipyard in Danzig? HOW???

*waits expectantly*

Germans tend to create myths which are hardly in line with historical truth.

Well...that they have in common with the Poles and most other peoples I think...nothing unusual about it! :)
Bratwurst Boy   
7 Aug 2009
History / Does Poland deserve credit for the 1989 Revolution? [87]

Germans are masters of the universe in creating national myths.

How so?

How did Germany "steal" the glory from the Poles??? Some german anti-polish conspiracy?
Tell me? How did we do that??? How did the german gov control what the international news should are showing?

But some links please...usual polish paranoia just doesn't cut it!
Bratwurst Boy   
7 Aug 2009
History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]

Polish kids were beaten by sadistic German teachers????

Prussia tried to implement german as main lingua between all the minorities now living between prussian/german borders.
Like english in the US.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanisation#In_Prussia

Do you know that german children were beaten by their prussian teachers too?
The "Prügelstrafe" was a common element in german school till even after the war.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Germany#Life_in_a_German_school

Corporal punishment was banned in West Germany in 1973 and at least officially in East Germany in 1949.

Mean? Surely! "Sadistic"? Hardly..

Corporal punishment of school students for misbehaviour involves striking the student on the buttocks or the palm of the hand in a premeditated ceremony with an implement specially kept for the purpose such as a paddle, or with the open hand.

outrageous act of brutal violence

Oh please!

Pawian, tell me...is the long tolerance of the polish language by Prussia also mentioned in Poland or only the tries by the gov to give the country a main language?

Tolerates Poland another school language than polish?

Let's see how "nice" Poland handled a similiar situation compared to "brutal" Germany:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polonization#Second_Polish_Republic

Dmowski and Grabski saw the solution of the "minorities problem" in imposing "Polish values" (Polish language and the Catholic Church) on the minorities to achieve "national assimilation",

....
In 1923 and from 1925 to 1926 he was a minister of religion and education. In that time he further pursued ND nationalist policies, especially Polonization.
He was the architect of the 1924 Lex Grabski, which de facto sought to eliminate the Ukrainian language from Polish schools...

Some officials denied the existence of the Ukrainian and Belarusian nations altogether...

A law issued in 1924 banned usage of any language but Polish in governmental and municipal paperwork.
the area of public education it was postulated that state schools could be only Polish language schools.
[41]

The land reform designed to favour the Poles[55] in mostly Ukrainian populated Volhynia, the agricultural territory where the land question was especially severe,

Wait....forced polish teaching in ukrainian schools???
A "land reform" favouring Poles to the native Ukrainians???

Interesting, isn't it...

..."Poland may be preserved only as a state of Polish people. If it were a state of Poles, Jews, Germans, Rusyns, Belarusians, Lithuanians, Russians, it would lose its independence again"

..."The foreign element will have to see if it will not be better off elsewhere. Polish land for the Poles!"

"[Poland's aim should be] "the transformation of the Commonwealth into Polish ethnic territory" [6]

Now compare that to Prussia...
During all the partitions around 500,000 Poles came to work and to live either in Prussia or in the Ruhr. Many stayed for good and assimilated, the rest makes the biggest Polonia in Europe.

On the other hand today barely any Germans live anymore in what is now Poland.

Sometimes a good long look into a mirror would be advisable for some Poles...
Bratwurst Boy   
6 Aug 2009
History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]

Well....some have surely tried stuff...but law prevented the worst.
No, Poles slugging it out with the prussian gov in a court is not brutal, don't give me the ****.

216 polish estates sold, Poles could and did buy land, they could live and work in Prussia...brutal my a'ss!

...
Nevertheless the influx of candidates was always huge and in the eve of World War I the number of immigrant workers exceeded 500,000 persons, 80% of them from the Russian-possessed part of Poland. Approximately 200,000 of them worked in the eastern provinces of Prussia....

My...must life have been horrible for Poles in Prussia...

I surely don't say everything was perfect or comparable with today.
But Prussia was not some black dictatorship and people COULD slug it out at a court instead of just being killed or kidnapped into a labor camp...they HAD rights!
Bratwurst Boy   
6 Aug 2009
History / WWII - who really was the first to help Poland? [900]

Erm...and how should that look in your eyes?
I'm at a loss what you mean actually?

Did I deny Hitler, the invasions or anything??? What???

I'm sure I could help you out if I just knew what you actually want from me?

Babi??? Where are you???? Come baaaaaack!
Bratwurst Boy   
6 Aug 2009
History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]

Nevertheless, the Settlement Commission was empowered with new more powerful rights, which entitled it to force Poles to sell the land since 1908.

Hmmm....you mean this "Settlement Commission"?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_Settlement_Commission

...The Commission in the end purchased 613 estates from German owners and 214 from Poles, functioning to bail-out German debtors as often as fulfilling its declared mission...

Well....not smart but surely there was worse...

Why was HE bothered by the court then?

Well...reading your first post one could think Poles had been without any rights at all...no houses, chucked out just like that, no courts for them etc....
Bratwurst Boy   
6 Aug 2009
History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]

This was further strengthened by the ban on building of houses by non-Germans

Hmm....why did you omit the rest of the sentence?

...(see Drzymała's van).

Well..and as we have already seen during examining the example of D's van this was not true.

This whole statement is misleading and could need a correctur.
Bratwurst Boy   
6 Aug 2009
History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]

From your other link vetala :

...More than 30,000 Poles with Austrian or Russian citizenship were deported from the Prussian part of divided Poland to the respective Austrian and Russian parts...

Russians to Russia and Austrians to Austria...what's wrong with that?

But it wasn't very smart either:

...
The expulsion was condemned by the Polish public as well as the federal German parliament.
The expulsion also contributed to the worsening of the German-Russian relations. In the aftermath, Poles without German citizenship were again allowed to work and reside in the German Empire in all seasons but the winter...

PS: I still can't find any hint that Poles couldn't own their own houses...
Bratwurst Boy   
6 Aug 2009
History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]

Well...I'm sure some Prussians lived also in Van's (maybe not for so long though).

And no...most Poles led a perfectly normal life and when they agreed to the laws could buy land and houses like everybody else.

...Prussia's Germanisation policies in the Province of Posen mostly failed.
Although most of the administrative measures aimed against the Poles remained in force until 1918, between 1912 and 1914 only four Polish-owned estates were expropriated, while at the same time Polish social organizations successfully competed with German trade organizations and even started to buy land from the Germans...

There existed surely worse things than that...
Bratwurst Boy   
6 Aug 2009
History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]

From your link:

...To get around the rule, he set himself up in a gypsy wagon and for more than a decade tenaciously defied in the courts all attempts to remove him.

My...how brutal!
Bratwurst Boy   
6 Aug 2009
History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]

We learn about it in schools.

Well..why that doesn't surprise me....

Still..any links to support your teaching?
Bratwurst Boy   
6 Aug 2009
History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]

When Poland was partitioned, in the Prussian Patrition Poles were not allowed to own houses. Their property was confiscated and sold to Prussians - and Jews!

Any links?
Bratwurst Boy   
6 Aug 2009
History / WWII - who really was the first to help Poland? [900]

Yes? And no...you are everything but objective. You are a Germanophobe!
You are going so far as to deny even the Austrians their part and declaring them occupied!

Even as the Austrians belonged to the most enthusiastic Nazis of them all...
Bratwurst Boy   
6 Aug 2009
History / Does Poland deserve credit for the 1989 Revolution? [87]

I mean your continuous comments about Poles complaining.

I actually meant the recurring theme about "Poland betrayed".
I'm now over a year here on PF and I can't count the threads anymore...

Now again, the "bad" Germans "stole" the glory from the polish freedom fighters....

As for the credit for the fall of communism, I'd place East Germans somewhere at the end of the parade. They were the staunchest supporters and brown-nosers of the USSR and when the real wall was already down they put up a great show for the camera. Becuase by then cameras were already allowed in the good ole' DDR.

Well...the GDR had an outlet in the case of West-Germany. During the whole time of the existence of the GDR, the most unruly did go west wards...to keep the pressure down in the kettle so to speak.

Eastern Germans always made their choice clear with their feet...why do you think the wall came up in the first place? :)

For me the Russians play also a good role in this. I believe without Perestroika the tanks would had crushed everything again.
I know that the east german gov in '89 begged Moscow to use the army to keep the state together...Gorbatschov declined...

PS: Oh and at least I'm able to identify them as Germans, not as some communists from Mars.
Reading some polish posts one could think some strange marsians opressed the good polish people all the time...
Bratwurst Boy   
6 Aug 2009
History / Does Poland deserve credit for the 1989 Revolution? [87]

We had a few spats on the forum where Poles were blamed for the expulsions of Germans

Well...they did it, didn't they....

BBoy, you went so far as telling us how you grandma could not even put her shoes on before being expelled.

I did NOT want to sound whining and complaining that's why I left it at a short mention.
Just to show that I KNOW what I speak of because my family was in the midst of the things so to speak...period.

Could you fill us all in on how that is Poles complaining?

Oh please...Clarkson makes jokes about everybody, either they laugh too or ignore him....now the Poles feel miffed and all hell breaks loose, getting even politics involved.

What's next? Demanding an apology? That Clarkson loses his job???

You are not making friends that way...
Bratwurst Boy   
6 Aug 2009
History / WWII - who really was the first to help Poland? [900]

Hmm...just reading the editorials to Keegan:

...The First World War was a tragic and unnecessary conflict.
Unnecessary because the train of events that led to its outbreak might have been broken at any point during the five weeks of crisis that preceded the first clash of arms, had prudence or common goodwill found a voice; tragic because the consequences of the first clash ended the lives of ten million human beings, tortured the emotional lives of millions more, destroyed the benevolent and optimistic culture of the European continent and left, when the guns at last fell silent four years later, a legacy of political rancour and racial hatred so intense that no explanation of the causes of the Second World War can stand without reference to those roots.

waterbrookmultnomah.com/workid.php?isbn=9780739312490&format=book&view=excerpt

I fully agree with that!
Bratwurst Boy   
6 Aug 2009
History / Does Poland deserve credit for the 1989 Revolution? [87]

...The Polish embassy in London has just complained against the advertisement of "Volkswagen Scirocco TDI" in Jeremy Clarkson's programm "Top Gear" on BBC2...

Oh god...just loosen up guys!

If it's a solace to you Clarkson likes to have a go at the Germans too...:)
Bratwurst Boy   
6 Aug 2009
History / WWII - who really was the first to help Poland? [900]

So that much for children voting as their parents... but, wait! My views of the States politics while studying there more or less equated his. Whoops.

Tell your father that the Nazis were a dead end for everybody (hindsight).
It was a "damned if you do/damned if you don't" situation more or less (hindsight of course).

Also, why would I whine about my country not being on the receiving end? That doesn't even make sense! :)

Okay....but I rarely see a honest debate about the not-so-cool points in polish history (or if than not without much white washing).
Whereas nearly no week goes by without some thread about WWII and how saintly Poland was betrayed by everybody and his grandmom..

I maintain that it was trashed not by a bigger bully but by multiple smaller bullies. Hah!

Okay :)
Bratwurst Boy   
6 Aug 2009
History / WWII - who really was the first to help Poland? [900]

Someone fails at diplomacy they are invaded?

Well, that's european history in short for you....just read up...it's mostly like that!

Do we have an excuse to invade Germany over that?

That's what the NATO is for...a lesson after WWII.
(Okay throw in nukes as deterrence and the decades of the cold war but you get the drift)

When someone would scrap the NATO and the EU and every country would be again out for themselves you would find very soon alot of those little and bigger alliances again...squabbling and maybe even clashing...I promise you that!
Bratwurst Boy   
6 Aug 2009
History / WWII - who really was the first to help Poland? [900]

Just a pawn...

Well....yes....

The rest are all "what if's" again! :)

Poland was always doomed to the battlefield

Nope...nothing was carved in stone. Smart allegiance could have changed alot.
Foolish polish diplomacy is much to blame for Polands fate.

You only whine if Poland is on the receiving end. Your country wasn't always a blessing to it's neighbours either...get a grip man!

Poland was a small bully (who greatly overestimated itself) who got trashed by a bigger bully...nothing what not had happened to most countries now and then in the past too.

Your "terrible neighbors" were also often enough weak and only the battlefield for foreign armies in it's history.

Ever heard of the thirty years war in Germany?
We lost percentual more people than Poland during WWII.
And weren't Poles with Napoleons army invading Russia ???

That's Europe...get over it!
Bratwurst Boy   
6 Aug 2009
History / WWII - who really was the first to help Poland? [900]

You'll note that GB entered a state of war with Germany because of and immediately after they invaded Poland???

Well..they obliged the treaty, didn't they?
Didn't help Poland one bit I think...
Did you never ask yourself why they didn't declare war on Russia too as they invaded Poland or why you were given away to the Russians at Yalta so easily?

It was never about you as the people but about the power structure in Europe.
Just a pawn...

To believe anything else is truly foolish!

you think Germany would have won the war if not for invading the USSR?',

No, I don't think so.
The Nazis needed the war to keep themselves up and running.
They would had been grinded to a halt (even if only for exhaustion) sooner or later in any case!
...but I doubt many people knew that at that time...it's a gift of hindsight.

The real unavoidable clash was between Nazi-Germany and Soviet-Russia...Europe was just to small for two of that kind.
Poland was doomed to be the battlefield (since they didn't ally with either of them)...