News / Poland Parliamentary elections 2015 [1060]


And you think that a coalition of PiS, Korwin and Kukiz would be in any way stable? Even PiS and Korwin would be dangerous for PiS - Korwin-Mikke's not known for his ability to work with others (hence why he screwed up Nowa Prawica) and his behaviour is hardly likely to change if he enters government.

PSL voters are also ideologically rather opposed to PiS, seeing as they consist of the rural middle classes.


Have you got any idea what Poland actually agreed to? No? So why are you making such comments?

All you know is that Poland said yes to something. What that something is - we don't know.

News / Poland Parliamentary elections 2015 [1060]


You're still making the fatal mistake of assuming that the electoral mathematics will work in their favour. If PiS get 38-39% of the vote but PO, ZL, PSL, Nowoczesna and MN take the remaining seats, then PiS will be in a very difficult situation with the largest amount of seats but no parliamentary majority and no possible coalition partner.

Anyway, that word came from the UK media, not the Polish media. Let's wait and see what the final deal is.


Doesn't bother me. I can't imagine they'll want to stay in Poland for one minute, and the door is open.

News / Poland Parliamentary elections 2015 [1060]


PO isn't finished, because you don't know what Poland agreed to. Wait and see, because the murmurings are that Poland pushed through some amendments to the original plan that are favourable.


Merkel desperately needs a deal to fight off the problems at home - for her, no-one will count the fact that 10000 turned up in Poland and 9999 vanished into Germany.

News / Poland Parliamentary elections 2015 [1060]


It was MillwardBrown for TVN. It's possible that the difference is that they also contact people on mobiles, which would explain 12% going to candidates more associated with youth than PiS. Certainly, the high Korwin result is suspicious and out of sync with other polls.

I'll use the other recent poll that IBRiS did for Rzeczpospolita tonight and see what differs.


I think it's not that far off - PiS got 157 seats on 29.9% in 2011, so 176 seats for 34% would be roughly about right.

My feeling is that this election will hinge on whether or not ZL, Kukiz and Korwin reach the thresholds.


Well, the German minority doesn't get automatic seats, but they're exempt from having to reach the 5% national threshold.

Travel / Pros and Cons about Driving from Wroclaw to Krakow [6]

Tolls are about 17zl from Gliwice to Katowice and 10zl each at the toll barriers in Myslowice and Balice. Driving should take about 3-3.5 hours if everything is clear.

Krakow doesn't seem particularly unwelcoming - similar to Wrocław in my opinion.

Travel / Pros and Cons about Driving from Wroclaw to Krakow [6]


4 people, you might as well drive. The only problem is the toll barriers at Bielany, Gliwice and between Katowice-Krakow. But it's not tourist season, so it should be clear.

Having said that, the 3 hour IC connection between Wroclaw-Krakow is very attractive.

Travel / Free Transport in Warsaw - 'Car Free Day' [10]

In terms of travelling, it would be a great start if Brussels could finally implement a EU-wide registration system for public transport.

For instance - I was organising a school trip to the Polish-German border in Frankfurt. We had our hotel in Słubice, and on the 2nd day, some of the kids wanted to visit some attraction in Frankfurt that wasn't accessible by public transport or by walking there. I went to the bus driver and asked him if he could take us there - I had some extra cash for "whatever", but he explained that he couldn't do it because he needed to file a bunch of extra paperwork (and pay some taxes) just to be able to drive there. As he explained - it was complete nonsense, and that he would've done it happily if it wasn't for the bureaucracy.

A genuine single market would allow the bus driver to go there without any controls. It's getting better and better every year, but there's still a lot of annoying protectionist things that are barely legal in the EU.

Life / Poles hard working or just born lazy. [58]


Oh yes. Some valuations are beyond hilarious. I remember looking at one flat that was obviously Grandma's old place, and the woman wanted nearly 20% more than the going rate for the same kind of flat - and this place also needed to be renovated.

I've heard stories about how people won't let Grandma sell her flat for less than they think it's worth, even though the money would go a long way to help her in her old age. That disgusts me :(

News / Poland Parliamentary elections 2015 [1060]

Polonius, I've done some more research on the seat allocation, and this is what I've come up with based on the latest opinion poll. It won't be totally correct as it doesn't include a lot of the tiny parties, nor does it include the German Minority, but it will give a rough idea.

I've used this latest opinion poll. wyborcza.pl/51,75478,18865184.html?i=1
and used this electoral calculator - icon.cat/util/elections.

For the amount of voters, the amount of invalid votes and the frequency, I've taken the figures from the 2nd round of the Presidential election.

PiS (37.93%): 176
PO (25.29%): 117
ZL (9.20%): 42
Korwin (8.05%): 37
Nowoczesna (6.90%): 31
PSL (6.90%): 31
Kukiz (5.75%): 26

It's late, so don't take these numbers seriously (maybe there's something wrong with my methodology - I'll post a step-by-step simulation tomorrow) - but this would mean...

PiS+Korwin+Kukiz = 239
PO+ZL+Nowoczesna+PSL = 221

Being objective, from all the opinion polls, it looks like PiS are on track to put together a small majority of 5-10 seats in the Sejm.

Ah, and the TVN24 poll says these seat numbers...


That means PiS+Korwin+Kukiz = 245 and PO+ZL+PSL+Nowoczesna+MN = 205

So the consistent thing here is that Korwin-Mikke would be the kingmaker in any coalition. Not a pleasant thought.

Travel / Free Transport in Warsaw - 'Car Free Day' [10]


Already introduced in Poznan for a while now. They're not bad (now that the initial absurdities have been fixed), but the fare system could only be devised by a madman.

Law / Electronic signature for my Polish citizenship? [40]


You can't change everything in a day ;)


It seems to be something that is enforced entirely arbitarily and without much logic. If you crossed at Swiecko, probably they couldn't be bothered with the effort of actually detaining you and giving you hell for it.

What was your mum travelling on then?

News / Poland Parliamentary elections 2015 [1060]


The only time that it's really been an issue before was when Olszewski's government fell and Wałęsa appointed Pawlak to try and form a government. Pawlak couldn't do it, so after losing the vote of confidence, he was obliged to resign.

In this situation, it would actually make sense for Duda to try and appoint Szydło first. There's a somewhat unspoken rule that the biggest party should have the first chance of forming a government - hence why Kaczyński appointed Tusk in 2007. If Szydło failed to win the vote of confidence in the Sejm, then the Sejm gets the chance to nominate someone. At that point, the coalition nominee would probably win the vote of confidence.

Generally speaking, the 1st nomination would go to Szydło, the 2nd could go to Kopacz (or other PO figure), and the 3rd would probably go to someone bland and inoffensive to ensure that they could win the vote of confidence. In that case, I'd predict a PSL Premier. No party would want the blame for causing new elections, so it would be in all their interests to try and form a viable government.

Kukiz has fallen away to nothing, as predicted.

Law / Electronic signature for my Polish citizenship? [40]


Effectively, yes. For instance, let's say that David Johnson has too much vodka and gets arrested for being drunk and disorderly. They ask him his parents names (normal in Poland), and they discover that his mother is called Danuta. They say "oh, David, your mother is Polish?" and he says "yeah". At that point, they would assume that he's a Polish citizen until proven otherwise. If they looked in the PESEL database and discovered that Danuta Johnson is still a Polish citizen, then under the law, David is too. So they would then ask him to produce Polish documents. If he can't produce such documents, he's broken the law a second time.

The law is selectively enforced, but it's still the law. You were actually lucky not to be pulled up on it before, especially with a Polish last name.

But don't worry, because you'll have a Polish ID soon and all will be well :)

Slight OT : what language do you speak at home?

Law / Electronic signature for my Polish citizenship? [40]



Don't get angry WP - the law is what the law is.


Yes, you could, if they could prove that you were a Polish citizen. In your case - a Polish last name and able to speak Polish would probably cause them to question your citizenship status.

Law / Electronic signature for my Polish citizenship? [40]

Google "Polonia passport trap" or "Poland passport trap" and you'll read plenty about the issue.

It's down to the fact that Polish law requires Polish citizens to identify themselves as such.

Law / Electronic signature for my Polish citizenship? [40]

From what I know, the general attitude is "tough", because as a Polish citizen, you're expected to have a Polish ID if you're in Poland and 18 or over. It's not so relevant nowadays, but people apparently found themselves stuck in Poland before Schengen as they weren't allowed to leave on non-Polish documents.


It's just not recognised by Poland. Tolerated, but not recognised.

Law / Leaving the country during Polish Karta Pobytu application [8]

There is no requirement under Polish law to have an exit visa, although it would be wise to make sure that you've got the stamp in your passport to confirm that you're legally resident until the decision is made. The Urzad Wojewodzki can do that for you if you don't have one already.


No, you don't have to wait until the decision is made, but you cannot cross to another Schengen country (except possibly by air, and remaining in transit - but that depends on the airport).


It doesn't work like that. What they mean is that you won't be allowed to re-enter Poland with the stamp in the passport, nor can you re-enter with the letter saying that the decision is being made. You need a Polish visa for that.

Think about it - it would be insane if someone couldn't leave.

Law / Electronic signature for my Polish citizenship? [40]

Yes, you were lucky not to be pulled up in Poland for not having a Polish ID before then. But from what I know, they tended to leave Europeans alone and instead picked on Canadians and Australians for some reason. It's a stupid, arbitrarily enforced law - but anyway, the good news for you is that you'll be able to pass Polish citizenship on to your children.

Another 15 months and I can apply...

Law / Electronic signature for my Polish citizenship? [40]

Aha, I understand. Yep, you would've been automatically a dual citizen at that point - your father would have passed on British citizenship and your mother Polish (and possibly British too?). Do you have a Polish last name?


Mostly, no. In Europe, only Ireland does it that way. America does it too, although their interpretation is that anyone born there is an American citizen regardless of the status of the parents. It led to the somewhat distateful term "anchor baby" that some people use over there.

Law / Leaving the country during Polish Karta Pobytu application [8]


You can cross, but only to a non-Schengen country. If you want to go to a Schengen country, you'll need to apply for a visa. If you're headed to a non-EU country, then you can always fly and simply stay airside during transit.


No.


Yes. You are legal in Poland while waiting for the decision, although if you want to re-enter Poland, you'll be obliged to apply for a visa. There is the other possibility of getting someone to pick up your Karta Pobytu and sending it directly to you.

Law / Electronic signature for my Polish citizenship? [40]

It doesn't matter - as his parents both have Polish citizenship, he would have been a Polish citizen automatically from birth. Essentially, Poland doesn't recognise (but doesn't prohibit) dual citizenship. So he would be obliged to use a Polish document when identifying himself to the Polish authorities, as he would be recognised as Polish in Poland. It's stupid, but it's the law.

I seem to recall that Americans are exempt from this though, on the basis of some treaty with the PRL.

Law / Electronic signature for my Polish citizenship? [40]


Essentially, the law in Poland requires you to identify yourself to the Polish authorities (for example, border guards, or the tax office) using a Polish identity document if you are a Polish citizen. The Poles could be quite petty about it, so WP was lucky not to be caught.


Actually, that's curious - were your parents British citizens at the time of your birth?

Being born in the UK isn't enough to get a passport.

Law / Electronic signature for my Polish citizenship? [40]

If I remember rightly, aren't you the child of Polish citizens? If so, you will be automatically. It's passed on regardless of what you do or don't do - Poland has a pretty straightforward citizenship law.

It's worth pointing out that even up until now, if you had committed a crime in Poland, you would've been treated as a Polish and not a British citizen regardless of what your passport said.

Law / Electronic signature for my Polish citizenship? [40]


... only just now? What happened to the great patriot WP? :D (only teasing!)

It's a pretty straightforward process, but you need to be in PL unfortunately. What you do is fill out the form, and they confirm it via SMS. You put that code into the website, and it confirms your application. You then have to go to any Urzad Skarbowy or ZUS (and maybe some other places, but I'm not sure where) - and they verify your identity there. It's a quick process - my local tax office is walking distance, and the whole thing took me about 20 minutes, including walking to the tax office and back.

The only other way would be to get an electronic signature, but they're expensive and I think you have to be in PL to get one anyway. The EPUAP system is the "citizen-friendly" (yes, I know you won't believe that PO are making life easier...:P) version of electronic signatures.

Unfortunately, I think you'd probably have to go to the embassy/consulate to get the EPUAP verified - it looks like they can do it there - londyn.msz.gov.pl/pl/informacje_konsularne/informacje/

Aha, got it.


bip.krakow.pl/?dok_id=45442

In short - you need to fill the form in, confirm it via sms, print out the document they give you (if they give you one, I don't remember), then go to the consulate/embassy with your passport and they'll verify it for you.

Work / Lang Company fired me [17]

If you're genuinely from the school in question, then it's remarkably unprofessional to post such a thing online, even if it's true.

Work / Lang Company fired me [17]


I seem to recall that they're notorious for doing it. At least, one school in Kedzierzyn-Kozle was - and I can't imagine there are many schools there.

News / Polish families are urged to establish themselves in Norway : Taking children away? [36]

...you honestly believe that's true?

Love / Need info on Polish female sports anchor - Karolina Szostak [3]

I heard she's married to some Polish rugby player.

News / Polish families are urged to establish themselves in Norway : Taking children away? [36]


I must admit, it takes a special sort of mind to think of foster children buggering their foster parents.


Why would anyone trust a homosexual less or more than a heterosexual? You're not making sense, Ironside.

News / Polish families are urged to establish themselves in Norway : Taking children away? [36]


Wasn't that common all over? I seem to recall reading about the Czechoslovaks doing the same thing.


No, it isn't. Norway is seen as very much "our way, or get lost". A bit like Poland, really.


Oh IS... you really believe that these poor psychotic Polish parents didn't do anything?


I rather trust Norwegians in their own country over some frankly demented foreigners. Haven't you noticed that almost all of these "victims" look exactly like a stereotypical child abuser?


They are heavy handed, and I don't think anyone can deny that. I'd personally prefer that they go to the parents and invite them to leave the country - it's a far cleaner way of doing things. A simple explanation that their values (beating children) isn't compatible with Norwegian values and hence they're no longer welcome would do the trick.