Language / Polish war cries/battle sayings [21]


What a rhetorical question. :-)

Hałła! Hałła!

A spoiler:

Doroszewski's dictionary: hałłachowanie: from the verb hałłachować, a.k.a. ałłachować, ałłakować and hałłakować, which in turn derives from the word hałła! - "A battle cry of Turks and Tatars". The dictionary cites "By Fire and Sword" of H. Sienkiewicz, providing an example of its use. Halla! comes from Allah, a word for God in Islam.

[I do not think the OP is interested in the subject anymore. But since some little pearls appear here and there from time to time, the thread continues.. :-)]

According to a popular legend, rather than leading his men to charge with the official cry "Vive l'Empereur", Kozietulski - the commander of the 3rd squadron of Polish Chevaux-Légers - issued this order:

- Naprzód psiekrwie, Cesarz patrzy - Forward, you bloody dogs, the Emperor is watching.
"As a reward for the charge of Somosierra the Emperor had promoted the whole Polish Guard regiment to the Old Guard. This meant it had skipped the Middle Guard, as normally a regiment would go from the Young to Middle, and only after another act of heroism should it go to the Old Guard. ... So the Emperor, who witnessed the charge at Somosierra, must have thought it very fine to promote the regiment straight from Young to Old Guard, and he also ordered the whole Guard to present arms to the squadron as it passed by." - Dezydery Chłapowski, a Polish officer assigned to the Emperor's Headquarters.

napoleon-series.org/military/virtual/c_somosierra.html

(Battle of Somosierra, November 30, 1808)

Language / Polish war cries/battle sayings [21]

Good one. :-)
So he died during the attack of that famous Winged Ślusarni? (Or the other way around. It's been so long. :-))

Kupą, Mości panowie, kupą!

Language / Polish war cries/battle sayings [21]

...
Tu spojrzeniem okrutnym

swą małżonkę obrzucił,

wrzasnął: - Tobie też utnę!

I rzeczywiście uciął.

Lecz nadal czując dreszcze

mordercze, wciąż się pieklił,

mruczał: - Kogo by jeszcze?

Przeto wszyscy uciekli.
...
Warknął: - Co, macie stracha?

Czknął, poprawił pluderki,

i jak mieczem zamacha -

to dosłownie w plasterki.
....

Waligórski, Ballada o straszliwej rzezi, waligorski.art.pl/liryka.php?litera=b&nazwa=19

Genealogy / My great grandmother's surname? Kiela? [8]

Possible; that would point to Celtic, Gaelic origin.

There is another explanation, closer to home. KIELA is a popular Lithuanian surname (male version). The corresponding female surname is KIELIENĖ (Latin capital E with dot above). Google returns 162,000 results for [Kiela Lietuva].

Genealogical service Geni provides access to 11 family trees KIELA, here: geni.com/surnames/people/kiela. All of them point to Lithuanian roots.

Someone on internet stated that KIELA in Lithuanian means a wagtail, pliszka in Polish.
I tried to verify it via Google translate. Pliszka in Polish translates to kielė in Lithuanian. I do not speak Lithuanian, so I cannot judge the differences between the two: kiela vs. kielė, so I'll stop here.

Colonization of Podlasie and booty raids against Pułtusk areas:
The village of Pniewo, the OP's family nest is in the Pułtusk County, Province of Mazovia. The neighbouring Podlasie Province further east and north used to be very intensively colonized by peoples of several nationalities: Polish (Mazovians), Lithuanian, Rusyn and Tatar. Some of this could have trickled south-west, to Pułtusk.

The late 13th and early 14th century was the period of the largest increase in booty raids. Jan Dlugosz in the "Opera Omnia" says that in the years 1253-1307 there were 11 Lithuanian raids, one Prussian, one Rusyn, and one of Teutonic Knights.

The Pultusk was the target of attacks in following years:
1324 - On the orders of Duke of Lithuania Gediminas, Dawid, a castellan of Grodno attacks princely and church estates. On November 20, he reaches Pułtusk - destroying 130 villages, burning 30 churches and murdering more than 4000 people.

1336 - the sons of Gediminas (Olgierd, Kiejstut, Patrick, Lubard,Tołwit and David Rusyn), crossed Narew river over the ice, again in November. They burnt villages on both sides of the river and grabbed cattle and about 1,200 people.

1337 (Długosz dates it in 1338) - A Lithuanian expedition ravages Pultusk and Ciechanów. The invaders, who moved along "secret routes" through the Primeval Forest have been defeated by Mazovian knights on the way back when crossing Narew river. Their booty and slaves were recovered and most of the invaders drowned.

So much for Polish-Lithuanian relationship. The destructive raids lasted until the Polish-Lithuanian Union was established.

History / Bronisław Grąbczewski, (1855-1926) - Great enemy of Britain [15]


So did British, and for the same reason.


Considering that Abdur Rahman Khan was politically and militarily astute the word puppet I used is probably too strong. But on the other hand:


(Wikipedia)
Isn't a classical definition of string-pulling?

Do not get me wrong: I have no pleasure in Russian colonization of Central Asia, Caucasus, Poland, etc. I was talking about achievements of a single man, not about Russian politics.

Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]


Just to recall: the English word recycling has few meanings

thefreedictionary.com/recycling

Having this in mind:
Latin based recyrkulacja (surowców) perhaps?
Regeneracja (materiałow)?
Przeróbka surowców wtórnych?


So if the concept of recovery (odzysk) is broader than the concept of recycling, why do not use it? It is the context that tells you exactly what you mean.

Recykling is just plain ugly. "Ni to pies ni to bies". I know, Magdalena, you are a professional translator and you are used to such things. I am not, and this is why they hurt my ears. :-)

===
Kompost, kompostowanie are fine, I agree. Komposting would be ugly, as most of "ingie" borrowings.

Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]


Do you mean "powtórzyć cyklinowanie", using a high quality "cykliniarka" tool?

Food / Miracle Whip availability in Poland? [43]


I have not tried this one, but I definitely like Collier's Welsh Cheddar and I positively dislike Canadian Kraft Cheddar (the orange stuff).

A cheese of my childhood: some aged farmer's cheese melted on frying pan with a bit of butter (5 min, say) and then cooked with eggs, caraway, salt and pepper for another few minutes until all excess of liquid is gone. With wrong proportions, it forms a glossy hard stuff. But it should be almost fluffy, yellow in colour. Excellent, both as a hot dish and a cold one.

Various images of the final product

The aged farmer's cheese is called "zgliwiały ser". In this stage its middle core is still white, but the outside skin is kind of semi transparent. And it has a specific not unpleasant smell. This will work fine with natural, not pasteurized milk; otherwise the cheese might get spoiled before it reaches this stage.

The white cheese can get to this stage naturally, or one can speed up the process by crushing it fine into a bowl and leaving it uncovered in a warm place for a few days, five say. One can sprinkle it with a baking soda to speed up the process of aging.

History / Bronisław Grąbczewski, (1855-1926) - Great enemy of Britain [15]


No doubt about it. He decided to become a Russian military career officer. He was called a traitor by many Poles. [Not that this matters very much - Donald Tusk is also a traitor and murderer in Kaczyński's eyes]. I'd like to draw your attention to Positivism movement (opposing Romanticism and defeat of its ideals) in Polish literature, represented by Prus, Sienkiewicz, Orzeszkowa. After loosing two bloody uprisings (Grąbczewski's father participated in the 1863 uprising) the program of Polish positivists found a fertile ground, as they pledged: organic work, work at foundations, assimilation of Jews and other minorities, women emancipation. From their point of view Bronisław Grąbczewski could not be considered a traitor - as long as he was a Pole at heart.

After passing his ensign exam in 1875, he requested transfer to the troops operating in Central Asia. As he had sworn to his father that he would not fight against his countrymen, he preferred not to remain in his home turf. At that time, Central Asia attracted people eager for adventures and contact with wild nature.

In the first three years he participated in various Russian military expeditions and missions. Those trips sparked his interest in ethnography and culture of peoples, with whom he met, therefore, he decided to ask for the release from active duty and to dedicate himself to research.

As he wrote in an article about this period of his life: "I was sitting at the rank of lieutenant - valuing more the freedom of hunting and wandering around this beautiful God's world, than all the ranks and advancement."

So much for his primary motivations.

There is no doubt that he was involved in political activities too. For example, in 1888 he masterminded - with a help of Ischak Khan, a pretender to the Afghan throne - an uprising in northern Afghanistan, directed against Emir Abdurrachman, a British puppet. The inspiration came from tsar Alexander III, who in this way, "wanted to painfully bite the British".


You need to explain this to me because I know too little about the game itself. All I know that both the British and Russian empires played their sinister games in Central Asia for control of minds, trade and resources over there. I also know that both Grąbczewski and Younghusband were part of those games by definition, although sometimes it seems that they both had greater interest in explorations, discoveries and adventures, than in spy or political games.

So what was it that Grąbczewski lost, as an individual? Here is not a place to go to all the details of his expeditions. Suffice to say that his achievement in the exploration and scientific field are very impressive. I'd say he lost nothing there.

Has his career came into a halt for any political reason, such as "loosing a game"? I do not think so.

After Grąbczewski gave up further scientific travel he continued serving in Russian administration, where he attained the rank of Major General, Hetman of the Cossack armies, and governor of Astrakhan. He still travelled but only as a tourist, or to handle important business matters.

In 1896 he left Central Asia and was appointed a borderline commissioner on Amur river, and in the years 1900 -1903 he was a commissioner general of Kuantung area in southern Manchuria, leased at the time to Russia by China. He stayed In Port Arthur until 1903 - the year he resigned.

He traveled through Europe for some time. In 1907 he was appointed head of the Civil Administration of the East China Railway in Harbin. He retired in 1910 and settled in Warsaw. During World War I he was in Petersburg, then in Anapa on the Black Sea, and during the revolution he served under Gen. Anton I. Denikin on a special mission. After the fall of the Kolchak government he returned to Poland by Japan in 1920. He joined the National Institute of Meteorology, and became a member of the Polish Geographical Society and - in the term 1921/1922 - he was its board member. In 1922 he was raised to a rank of Member-Correspondent of the Society. He died on February 27, 1926 in Warsaw.

News / Visegrad Battle Group under the command of Poland [261]

ČESKÉ noviny, ceskenoviny.cz/news/zpravy/visegrad-group-pledges-to-form-eu-battlegroup-by-2016/790545
published: 04.05.2012, 16:51
Visegrad Group pledges to form EU Battlegroup by 2016

History / Bronisław Grąbczewski, (1855-1926) - Great enemy of Britain [15]


I came across an enthusiastic reader's review of the book "Podróże po Azji Środkowej: 1885-1890 - Bronisław Grąbczewski Wydawnictwo Naukowe PWN , 2010 , 711 stron (Travels across Central Asia: 1885-1890 - Bronisław Grąbczewski, Wydawnictwo Naukowe PWN, 2010 , 711 pages), clevera.blox.pl/2010/12/Podroze-po-Azji-Srodkowej-Bronislaw-Grabczewski.html

He wrote several books in 1920s, and others also wrote about him. The very first report in Polish about him seems to be "Podróż Kapitana B. Grąbczewskiego w Środkowej Azji (z kartą), (Wstępne słowo dr F. Chłapowskiego i list kapitana Grąbczewskiego). Rocznik Towarzystwa Przyjaciół Nauk Poznańskiego, t. XVIII, z.1 i 2, s. 201-223, 1891. (Travel of Captain B. Grąbczewski in Central Asia (with a map). (Introduction by dr. F. Chłapowski and a letter of Captain Grąbczewski). Yearbook of Poznan Society of Friends of Science, vol. XVIII, books 1 and 2, pages 210-223, 1891).

Being at the service of Russia Tsar, he also sent reports to various Russian institutions, delivered presentations to various societies and to the Russian court. He was a recipient of several medals, such as a silver medal of Imperial Russian Geographical Society, or a gold medal of Russian Geographical Society. He also received cash prices and donations, as 12000 rubles allocated by a future Emperor Nicholas II with his teacher Gregory Daniłowicz, lifetime salary of 400 rubles a year, a six-month overseas holiday leave pay with additional 3000 rubles for travel expenses, 1000 rubles "for useful work, regarding Kashgaria."

Blogger Białczyński reprints a long article in Polish about him here:
bialczynski.wordpress.com/slowianie-tradycje-kultura-dzieje/zblizenie-polska-rosja/bronislaw-grabczewski-1855-%E2%80%93-1926-%E2%80%93-w-sluzbie-cara-i-nauki
- and enriches it by modern photographs, as well as by photographs taken by Leon Barszczewski, another Polish explorer in service of Russia. The original article, also in Polish, entitled "Bronisław Grąbczewski (1855 - 1926). W służbie cara i nauki" (Bronisław Grąbczewski (1855 - 1926). In service of Tsar and science), written by Maria Magdalena Blombergowa, Instytut Archeologii Uniwersytetu £ódzkiego, is available here: archiwum.wspolnotapolska.org.pl/?id=od_grab

A quite recent review of the Russian book "Evgeny Sergeev. The Great Game, 1856-1907: Myths and realities of Russian-British relations in Central and Eastern Asia" is available here:

indrus.in/articles/2012/05/04/russian_toe_in_the_indian_ocean_15679.html

Few last paragraphs are devoted to Grąbczewski:

News / Polish politics: Lessons in etiquette [15]

A history class .....

On the first day of school before the start of the lesson, the teacher presents a new student to the class:
This is Nguyen Dong from Vietnam ..... from now on he will be your friend.
Lesson begins. The teacher says: ..... see how much you remember from Polish history.

Who spoke these words: "Mieczów ci u nas dostatek"? (We have plenty of swords).
There is deathly silence in the classroom, only Nguyen raises his hand and says: - Władysław Jagiello to envoys of Teutonic Knights before the Battle of Grunwald, July 1410.

- Here you go, aren't you ashamed? Nguyen is a Vietnamese, and he knows Polish history better than you.

- Do you want to prove that "Polak przed szkoda i po szkodzie głupi" (a Pole is stupid not only before but also after harm is done)? ..... Well, what poet wrote it?

Nguyen gets up again. - Jan Kochanowski in the "Songs of Podolia havoc", 1586.

The teacher looks reproachfully at the students. There is silence in the class.
Suddenly a loud whisper is heard: "Bierz dupę w troki i spier....j do swojego gównianego kraju" (Take off your ass and get feck out of here to your sh**ty country).

- Who said that?! ..... the teacher yells and to that Nguyen responds, reciting: - Józef Piłsudski to General Mikhail Tukhachevsky on the outskirts of Warsaw, August 1920.

The class gets even quieter. But one can hear someone muttering under his breath: - You can kiss my ass.
The teacher, more and more nervous: - You overdid it this time. Who was it?
Nguyen gets up again ....... - Andrzej Lepper to Aneta Krawczyk at the Fourth National Convention of Self Defense, Warsaw, January 2004.

This is already too much for the teacher. The poor woman falls back into the chair, moaning: - O God, give me strength ..
Nguyen, without waiting to be prompted: - Pope John Paul II at the sight of pilgrimage of Radio Maria Family, St. Peter's Square in Rome, March 1994.

The teacher faints. The class raises a wild scream. After a moment the door opens and the mad directed runs in:
- What the the hell are you doing?! I have not seen such a gang of morons in all my life!
And Nguyen responds: - Nicolas Sarkozy to the Polish delegation, European Union summit in Brussels, October 2008 years

Squad of shame - a criminal gang of mercenaries and agents recruited, on behalf of the occupation regime, to discredit Poland and the athletes representing her, in the eyes of Europe and the entire world.

This criminal commando was established on 2012-05-02 by a known agent and collaborator of the occupation regime, a man named Franciszek Smuda (operational alias "Franz", aka "Coach without Matura"), on the personal order of self-proclaimed "Prime Minister" and puppet Donald Tusk and Elected-by-Mistake WSI-Agent Lair-President Bronislaw-False Count-Beast-Komorowski (Russian:Бронислав Коморовскu, operating nickname, "The gamekeeper").

The criminal shame commando has long aroused suspicion of one of the most oustanding resistance fighters and - at the same time - one of the greatest thinkers of modern times, the legendary man who stopped England in 1973, a former goalkeeper of the Poland's football national team, a PiS MP, Jan Tomaszewski.

His brilliant investigation during last several months, was a totally full and devastatingly crushing success, which consisted of both the exposure of tone and etymology of one of the top-secret agent operating nicknames of agent Smuda, as well as recognition of the true faces of his chosen ones.

Below are the milestones of Jan Tomaszewski's daring investigation, together with the partial conclusions, to which he was coming in its various stages:

2012-10-12, in an interview for Super Express:
- If Smuda has no high school diploma then - according to the rules - he can at best coach a third league team. [...] Franz uses the UEFA Pro license, because he graduated from Coaching Academy of Polish Football Association PZPN. I suspect that he has no Matura, and therefore he had no rights to attend this academy.

2012-02-28, Interview with Monika Olejnik (Operating nickname: Daisy) on TVN24:
- I do not watch the Polish national team, because it consists criminals and frustrated French and German players. [...] This is not my team. [...] I boycott the Smuda team. I do not identify with this team and I am ashamed that the jersey with the white eagle is being devalued.

2012-05-03, interview for dziennik.pl:
-This squad is a disgrace for the country of 40 millions people. Such squad could only be selected by a coach without Matura.

- £ukasz Piszczek has been convicted for corruption in football. The other three (Damien Perquis, Sebastian Boenisch i Eugen Polanski) are the French-German rejects, who did not get selected into their own national teams and thus they will play for Poland by their grace. Shame that such people will represent our country

-- It's not too late yet. Resign from the Poland's team! This way you will save us from shame, and you will also save your own faces somehow.

2012-05-03, in a conversation with the service sportowefakty.pl
- Unfortunately my worst suspicions have been confirmed. For me, this is a team of infamy of nation of forty million. For me, if a player, who last year was sentenced by court for corruption, without a penalty of disqualification, is selected to our national squad and if he is going to represent the nation of 40 million, than this is a disgrace.The same applies to that Frenchman and the two Germans

translated from: Kadra hańby, Muzeum IV RP

Where does his infatuation with Smuda's lack of education come from? From his three years extramural coaching studies in Warsaw's Academy of Physical education? Evidently, formal education has nothing in common with class, which he evidently misses very badly - as he behaves like a buffoon or a pissed Borat. Or as a frustrated PiS party activist.

Friday, 2012-05-11
A parliamentary debate on the governmental proposal regarding retirement age at 67 years, for both sexes:

Beata Kempa (Solidarna Polska):
- Mr. Prime Minister, how much one has to hate his own people to prepare them such a fate?

Prime Minister Tusk (PO), reminding the PiS MPs the words of the Kaczyńskis brothers, in 2008, advising the late retirement:
- Here was a talk about a disgrace, a betrayal, and about me hating the people. Do you really disagree that Poles retire prematurely now? Well, the Law and Justice disagrees, but President Kaczynski agreed with in 2008.

Then he added, citing the deceased president
- >> we have to aim for people to retire later, even though this is not popular <<
- Does PiS agree with this thesis now? So then (in 2008) it was the far-sightedness, and today it is a disgrace and betrayal. What happened with you that you now assess the proposal - whose one of the sources is Lech Kaczīnski - with such words?

Kaczyński (PiS), standard demagogy ...

Anonymous voice from the left to Kaczyński: "Phone your brother!" (for an advice)

Kaczyński:
- Well, now his colleagues at this very moment say "call him" . This incredible level of rudeness is your doing, in terms of Polish public life. This almost incredible booriness is on the level of Adolf Hitler's dreams about Poles, and about fate of Poles.

Palikot (RP):
- I request a break, and I ask to convening the Convent of Seniors in connection with the incredible boorishness on the part of Jaroslaw Kaczynski.

- Chairman Jaroslaw Kaczynski compared my group and me to Adolf Hitler. I understand that a man who was willing to send his own brother to death in Smolensk, and who encouraged the use of "mining" detentions is capable of every wickedness. But the House must take care that some limits are not to be exceeded in this parliament.

Hofman (PiS): - In our opinion, this sentence was shouted by Janusz Palikot and his group. (...) Palikot preys on the personal tragedy of Jarosław Kaczyński.

Hofman(Pis), later at the Convent of Seniors:
- The transcript will show it and I hope that after such confirmation Madam Speaker will exclude this man from the session because he is not grownup enough to sit in this Parliament.

Palikot (RP). At a hastily convened press conference Palikot categorically stated that neither he nor anyone from his group said nothing about Lech Kaczynski
- I also deny that it was Leszek Miller who shouted it, because I was sitting next to him and I know that he did not scream that.

- However, some say it was Balt from SLD, who shouted it.

Balt (SLD), tens of seconds later, runs into the room:
- You're a lousy liar. I said nothing of this sort. Do not lie!

Palikot (RP): - Then deny it!

Balt (SLD): - No, you have to prove it.

Palikot (RP), after Balt was escorted out of the room:
- It can be easily seen who is guilt, right? "Hit the table and the scissors will answer." One who has nothing wrong on his conscience does not make any fuss.

Balt (SLD), after the break:
- I formally request to take a break and to convene Convent of Seniors in order to clarify libels and slanders, directed towards me by this boor, devoid of any deals.

Madam Speaker, Kopacz(PO), after cutting him off:
- Enough of this!
She then threatened to send any similar behaviour to the Parliamentary Ethics Committee.
- I consider this type of outrageous behavior as scandalous.

Genealogy / Italians in Poland around 1500-1600's [5]

Bona Sforza(1493-1557), became the second wife of Sigismund I the Old, the King of Poland and Grand Duke of Lithuania, and became the Queen of Poland and Grand Duchess of Lithuania, in 1518.

She brought with her many Italians, others followed suit - cooks, gardeners, artists, architects ...

Here is for example a signed cameo, bearing the signature of Gian Giacomo Caraglio (1500/1505-1565). Best known as a printmaker, Caraglio who was born in Vienna and later worked in Venice and then Kraków, metmuseum.org/toah/works-of-art/17.190.869.

Italians in Poland, video: youtube.com/watch?v=XTC6aid47cs

Italy-Poland relations, wikipedia, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy%E2%80%93Poland_relations

There are also several pages in category "Italians expatriates in Poland", devoted to Bernardo Bellotto, Michelangelo Palloni, Scipione Piattoli, Fausto Sozzini, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Italian_expatriates_in_Poland

Excerpts translated from a website of Italian Embassy in Warsaw:
In the fifteenth century, through contacts with various Italian universities, cooperation in cultural level clearly developed between the two countries: many Polish students, including Nicolaus Copernicus, completed their studies in Italy, while Italian teachers often came to Poland to educate children of the Polish nobility. Through such contacts, favorable to popularization of the idea of humanism and the Renaissance, the Italian influence on Polish art and culture lasted for over three centuries.

And since the nineteenth century, thanks to the contacts between patriots of both countries, gave a new momentum to mutual relations: between 1848 and 1849, many Polish soldiers conscripted into the ranks of Savoie troops, fought alongside Piemont soldiers in the first War of Independence. Many Poles also fought in defense of the Roman Republic, while others participated in the Expedition of the Thousand.

It is the common ideals of freedom and the brotherhood in arms, which have brought the two nations together in the struggle for national liberation against the domination of foreign powers. Even the famous poet Adam Mickiewicz fought for the independence of Italy, and garibaldini Francesco Nullo and Stanislao Becchi participated in the fighting on Polish soil.

ambvarsavia.esteri.it/Ambasciata_Varsavia/Menu/I_rapporti_bilaterali/Cooperazione_politica/Storia/

Ancestry: List of Italian families naturalized or ennobled in Poland between 1500 and 1700:
If you want to search for surname "Data" the database "Italians in Poland" ancestry.com, you would need to sign in to Ancestry. You will receive 14 days free access to their resources.

It is possible to obtain specific number of surname Data in Piedmont, by using this search engine:

italia.indettaglio.it/eng/cognomi/cognomi_piemonte.html

I just run it and here are quick results. Most of them live in Torino province:
46 in Forno Canavesse
26 in Torino
19 in Rivara
13 in Caselle Torinese
9 in Cirie
8 in Levone
7 in Nole
etc...

Language / The Polish language - it's bloody hard! [210]


There is no need to be so embittered. Take it easy, let me quote my first post on the subject, post #203:


But why is it important to lawyers? Some examples:
case LUB:
"W przypadku wady ukrytej towaru klient może obciążyć dostawcę karami umownymi lub dochodzić praw na drodze sądowej."
This means that the client can (1) charge contractual penalties (2) take a legal action (eg ask a court for compensation). But he can also do both. So he has more rights.

case ALBO:
"W przypadku wady ukrytej towaru klient może obciążyć dostawcę karami umownymi albo dochodzić praw na drodze sądowej."
This means that if the customer charges contractual penalties, he is not entitled to take legal action, or vice versa. So he can do only one of two things:

(1) charge contractual penalties (and not go to court), and (2) go to court (and do not charge contractual penalties). So he has fewer rights.


Strictly speaking, you are right. The traditionalists go even further demanding that alternativeshould be used only in situations where the number of choices involved is exactly two, because of the word's historical relation to Latin alter, "the other of two."

However, about 50% of world use it in the sense "one of a number of things from which only one can be chosen".

However, if alternative is used as a synonym of the word choice than perhaps "alternatywa łączna, suma logiczna" and "alternatywa wykluczająca, alternatywa rozłączna, różnica symetryczna" do not look funny anymore.

See also: Poradnia językowa:

The answer is difficult, on the one hand, the terminological confusion prevailing in encyclopedias, dictionaries and textbooks of logic, which introduce three alternative functors different and differently functioning names (alternative (without atrybutywnego determination), the total alternative, alternative Removable, disjunction, exclusion is), on the other hand ambiguity and at the same time the quasi-synonymy Polish conjunctions or alternatives, either. The situation becomes even more confusing when we realize the multitude of other provisions relating to the alternative expressions and syntactic structures.

The easiest way to deal with the chaos of terminology: the term "alternative" is both inclusive label three different types of alternative called propositional connectives and - a child of the above - the name of one of them. This difficulty should be ignored, and - having chosen arbitrarily dates in our opinion the most adequate, comfortable, or even the most widely used - to draw attention to understand the differences between the three types of sentences relating to alternative functors. I call them here: alternative, disjunction and exclusion is. They are uniquely characterized by the arrangement of truths and falsehoods; acceptance and rejection.

News / Polish politics: Lessons in etiquette [15]


Joachim Brudziński, interview for onet.pl: "PiS jest szlachetniejszą i trwalszą marką, niż The Rolling Stones" - PiS (Law and Justice) is more noble and durable brand than "The Rolling Stones".

Language / The Polish language - it's bloody hard! [210]

Well, what can I say. Apparently the authorities are not always right. If you are confused then go back to the formal logic - as I shortly demonstrated in post #203 - which actually use such terms as exclusive disjunction (XOR) vs. inclusive disjunction (OR).

In Polish, see for example: Alternatywa wykluczająca (razłączna)

Sorry SJP, but you are wrong. :-(


eioba.pl/a/1vlq/zwiazki-logiczne

^^
Sorry, good source but wrong example, It should be this:


eioba.pl/a/1vlq/zwiazki-logiczne

Language / The Polish language - it's bloody hard! [210]


Yes, interesting and funny at the same time.

I think Poles have become aware of such things only after the Polish School of Logic was established in the interbellum period. £ukaszewicz, Tarski and others must have influenced a lot of Polish writers at the time.

I still remember a comment of one of our university assistants, congratulating one of our friends regarding the proper usage of "albo" in his mathematics or physics test. "You must have graduated from Marcinek because you know exactly how to use LUB and ALBO", referring to "Liceum Karola Marcinkiewicza w Poznaniu" - an elite senior high school in Poznań. At that time I did not actually know, nor cared, what he was talking about. :-)

Genealogy / My great grandmother's surname? Kiela? [8]


Well, this is nothing new in Polish language. The form "z domu", "de domo" (Latin), "née" or "nee" have been in use for centuries in Poland. However, the typical usage would be - as in this case, "de domo Kiela", " z domu Kiela", "nee Kiela" - in the singular, nominative case, not "z domu Kielów". The only grammatical exception from such rule would be to indicate the femininity of the person, whenever appropriate; as in "de domo £abuńska", rather than "de domo £abuński".

The plural declensed expression "de domo £abuńskich", or " z domu Kielów" is actually incorrect, even though it might sound logical. This is why I tried to justify the transition Kielów=>Kiela in my previous post, by providing some auxiliary supportive evidence.

As a form of amusement, here is what the uncle Google found: An early 19th century advertisement with the word "Kielów". I corrected some of the spelling caused by errors of optical character recognition (OCR) firmware, but I have left the ancient spelling intact, otherwise.


I undersigned Jakób Czerlo notify everyone, who might be concerned about it, that - being separated from my wife Rachła Netsencederborr - I am not part of her business, located at 1076 Królewska Street in the Kielas House, shop no 5, and that according to our arrangements she is alone obliged to pay back her debts both in this country as well as abroad.

Genealogy / My great grandmother's surname? Kiela? [8]


I think you great grandmother maiden name was KIELA, not KIELÓW.
Here is why:
+ Spelling wise, Kielów is not a typical Polish name.
+ Whoever wrote that certificate must have taken the expression "Z DOMU" (from the house of) too literally - thinking in terms of "Z DOMU RODZINY KIELÓW (from the house of KIELAs family) , which is a perfectly correct plural form.

+ Three kilometres NW of Pniewo is Topolnica, a picturesque village among forests. In the description of its architecture, shown in the Atlas of Polish Villages, atlaswsi.pl/index.php?option=com_town&task=view&id=821&tab=0&Itemid=6, it states:

Topolnica has 37 buildings including 27 brick houses and 10 wooden ones, of which four were built in the interwar period. These are the houses of the families: Zawadzkich, Kielów, Zychów and Okulskich (English: Zawadzkis, Kielas, Zychs, Okulskis).

It looks like some of your relatives still live nearby Pniewo.
+ Googling [Topolnica Kiela] brings several Kiela names, such as Wiesław Kiela a local businessman, a roofer.
+ Googling [Zatory Kiela] brings more Kielas into focus. (Zatory is a gmina, where Pniewo belongs).
+ The Moi Krewni database shows 227 persons in Poland of surname Kiela. They live in 31 districts and towns. Most of them - 68 persons - live in Pułtusk district, where your Pniewo belongs.

News / Polish politics: Lessons in etiquette [15]


Oh, the famous Stadnicki. One particular story is related to history of Uherce Mineralne, a village at the foothills of Bieszczady, Lesko district. Here is a corresponding excerpt, which I translated from Polish Wikipedia.

At the end of the sixteenth century, Dorota Herburt brought Uherce in the dowry to Stanisław Tarnawski, Chorąży (Ensign) of Sanok. The Ensign had a fairly substantial estate consisting of 14 villages, but he also had huge debts. Its main creditor was Jan Tomasz Drohojowski, Grand Crown Referendary, Governor (Starosta) of Przemyśl. Expecting serious trouble from such high-ranking person, the smart Chorąży donated in perpetuum all his estates to Castellan of Przemyśl, Stanislaw Stadnicki from Lesko.

In 1601, during a private war between the owner of Uherce, Stanisław Tarnawski, Ensign of Sanok, and his creditor Jan Drohojowski, Grand Crown Referendary, a fortified camp - surrounded by moats filled with water - was established by Drohojowski between Glinne and Uherce. From there his army was harassing Tarnawski's estate and his ally Stadnicki, a new owner of Uherce. And so began a private war that lasted four years. The soldiers of Referendary used to catch artisans and merchants going from Lesko to the fair in Chyrów, take the cattle and horses from the fields, and perpetrated rogue attacks in the area.

During this period, Tarnawski repeatedly defended himself and hid in Uherce manor from the Referendary troops - every time successfully. Accomplishing nothing, Jan Tomasz Drohojowski died at the hands of Stanislaw Stadnicki's people in 1605.


Yes, this is what Poles are famous for. :-(

I think Jan Suchorzewski was mentioned in this forum at least twice: In a pathetic scene in the Sejm, trying to prevent the King from signing the Constitution of 3 May and indirectly - in showing image of the Jan Piotr Norblin painting: "Hanging in effigy of the leaders of Targowica Confederation, Warsaw, 1794, in the aftermath of the Warsaw Uprising."

One of those who's effigy was hanged was Jan Suchorzewski. Both images can be seen at the first link above.

Language / The Polish language - it's bloody hard! [210]

The following is a short excerpt from the Guide for Translators, European Committee, about usage of LUB and ALBO. Looks exactly the same as in formal logic.

1.3.7 Logika spójników
1.3.7.1 and/or a różnica między lub i albo
W języku polskim przyimek lub oznacza alternatywę łączną, zaś przyimek albo - alternatywę rozłączną. Zatem zdanie:
"Rolnicy mogą uprawiać len lub konopie."
oznacza, że rolnicy mogą uprawiać len, konopie, albo obie te rośliny jednocześnie, natomiast zdanie:
"Rolnicy mogą uprawiać len albo konopie."
znaczy, że uprawiając len, nie można uprawiać konopi, i odwrotnie.

W związku z tym właściwym odpowiednikiem wyrażenia and/or w polszczyźnie jest samo lub. Nie ma potrzeby stosowania i/lub.

Vademacum Tłumacza, wskazówki redakcyjne dla tłumaczy, wersja 3 (grudzień 2007 r.), Departament Języka Polskiego, Dyrekcja Generalna ds. Tłumaczń Pisemnych, Komisja Europejska, Luksemburg 2007,

Language / The Polish language - it's bloody hard! [210]


I am not trying to be smart or picky so consider this a joke: in formal Polish, spoken by lawyers mostly, there is a difference between LUB and ALBO. Assuming this, try to disentangle your example now. :-)

In formal logic (here 1=true, 0=false)
LUB=OR: Logical disjunction, a.k.a. inclusive disjunction or alternation: A ⋁ B
The truth table of A ⋁ B: 0⋁0=0; 0⋁1=1; 1⋁0=1; 1⋁1=1
True when at least one component is true.

ALBO=XOR: Logical exclusive disjunction, aka exclusive OR, aka XOR; A ⊕ B
The truth table of A ⊕ B: 0⊕0=0; 0⊕1=1; 1⊕0=1; 1⊕1=0
True only when the components are mutually opposite (albo .. albo)

Genealogy / any towns that are pronounced as Koscov? [8]

I extracted a list of Polish villages from current geographical area of Poland, obeying the following pattern: \bK[ąęóćśńżźła-z]+ów , which means: Any name beginning with "K", followed by any number of Polish lower case characters, followed by "ów". There are 372 such names. I am not attaching it here, since I am not sure whether you are really interested in this particular pattern.

I am however attaching a sublist, which starts with "Kos" and ends with "ów". Try it to see if any of those names fit your pronunciation somehow.

Let me know if you want the long list, or whether you'd like me to try another pattern. There is no problem with it, because my programmer's editor has all necessary searching, sorting and replacement tools. I can regenerate patterns in minutes.

After you select some candidates you will need to check locations of those villages. You can use Wikipedia for that, or Google maps. You have to reject those names which were outside the Poland's borders before the WWII, meaning - they were in the pre-war Germany.

You may also consult the following map, showing distribution of surname Miśkowiec in contemporary Poland, moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/mi%25C5%259Bkowiec.html.

The red color, with highest distribution of Miśkowiec surname, represent piedmont of Tatra Mountains: Nowy Targ, Limanowa, Sucha Beskidzka. Ask you friend if she comes from a Polish Highlanders' family, Górale (plural) in Polish.

If your selected village match the latter map somehow that's a bonus of course.

Kosinów
Kosiorów
Kosmolów
Kosmów
Kosmów-Kolonia
Kosów
Kosów Lacki
Kosów Ruski
Kosów-Hulidów
Kosów-Sitne
Kosów-Stacja
Kossów
Kostków
Kostów
Koszorów

Genealogy / Ratajczyk/Bednarkow surnames [7]


Not really. Black forest is a popular place name in many countries in Europe. The best known Black Forest is Szwartzwald,
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Forest
a wooded mountain range in Baden-Württemberg, southwestern Germany. There are 11 villages in Poland called Czarny Las (Polish for Black Forest) - one in Great Poland Voivodship and three in £ódź Voivodship,

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czarny_Las

Forget your little "Jewish" theory, just focus on facts.

So, do you have the Stefan Ratajczyk birth/baptism certificate? Is his birth place listed there as Wardężyn? Do you now see how you misread it as Warelesyn, interpreting "d" as "el" and "ż" as "s"? Are his parents listed there? Are they Ratajczyk and Bednarkow(a)? If yes, you have to focus on searching through Polish databases.

I made reasonably complete job for you - searching for marriages in the Wielkopolska Province (capital Poznań, Posen Provinz of Prussia) - only because some good people digitized data coming from various sources (Catholic, Augsburg-Evangelic parishes, etc.) in that region.

But I did not search for birth/baptism certificate of your grandfather Stefan (possible Latin name Stephanus). It would be nice to do it now - just to confirm answers to those questions I rhetorically asked above. Here is what you could do.

Go to "Pradziad" database; I already filled it partially for you:
Parish: Grodziec (I realized that Grabienice is a new parish for Wardężyn, the old one was Grodziec)
Gmina: Grodziec (gmina=municipality)
Old Voivodship, selected from a pull down list: konińskie (Konin)
baza.archiwa.gov.pl/sezam/pradziad.php?l=&miejscowosc=Grodziec&gmina=Grodziec&wojewodztwo_id=30&wyznanie_id=0&rodzajaktu_id=0&search=szukaj

You will see 12 records there: four Evangelic-Augsburg records, and eight Roman-Catholic ones, covering various types of documents and periods. Focusing on RC, and births (urodzenia) you find that the birth year of your grandfather (1886) fits - thats the fifth row from the bottom. Press on "więcej" (more) and you will get the detailed description where to look for your grandfather birth certificate. The description is in Polish but it basically says where to find the birth certificates:

Place: Grodziec
Gmina: Grodziec
Old voivodship: konińskie (Konin)
New voivodship (since 1999): wielkopolskie (Great Poland)
Faith: Roman Catholic
Dates: .... 1880-1898
Microfilms: ... does not apply since none of them covers the year 1886,
Storage location: Archiwum Państwowe w Poznaniu Oddział w Koninie; 62-500 Konin; ul. 3 Maja 78, tel (63) 242-92-77, 246-71-32; fax: 246-74-56; email: konin@poznan.ap.gov.pl

It looks like you would need to find someone in Poland to do the search for you there, but you may try to query them by email first.

A professional researcher could also examine the marriage certificates from various periods [1809-1855, 1857, 1859-1862, 1864-1902] just in case your grandparents were married in Grodziec, and my sources missed it somehow.

If this still does not work you would have to try your luck with the £ódź Province, and that might mean spending a lot of time in various archives.

If you have any specific question, ask me, but basically you are on your own. Genealogy search is a hard job. It takes a lot time and luck sometimes.

Well, good luck to you.

Genealogy / Ratajczyk/Bednarkow surnames [7]


New users are subject to some limitations. You will get all privileges after five posts or so. Just be active and patient :-)


The name Warelesyn does not sound right, but it is important to find its correct name, because it will help us to identify the correct Grodziec (out of eight possibilities).

I found it, assuming that only the first three and the last two characters of your "Warelesyn" are correct. In other words I was searching for a village name in Poland having this pattern War????yn. To be exact the search GREP pattern, specific to an XML database I was using, was this: >Wa[ąęćśńóżźa-z]+yn\b . For those in similar needs - the database is in the form or two zipped XML files SIMC and TERC, available from Central Statistical Office (GUS):

stat.gov.pl/broker/access/prefile/listPreFiles.jspa

Expecting that the mysterious village is located in Great Poland Province and Konin County, I found their codes - 30 and 10 respectively - from the TERC file. There are several villages listed in SIMC files, that match the above pattern, but only one is located in Konin County. So here comes the disclosure: Wardężyn, repeat WARDĘŻYN (E with ogonek and Z with dot above).

So now we can be sure that your great grandparents, Franciszek and Anna, are from around the village of Grodziec, Gmina Grodziec, Konin County, Greater Poland Voivodeship, in west-central Poland, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grodziec,_Greater_Poland_Voivodeship

We also know that your grandfather Stefan was born in Wardężyn, Gmina Rychwał, Konin County, Greater Poland Voivodeship, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward%C4%99%C5%BCyn

And the google maps show that Wardężyn is very close to Grodziec, about 10 km by road.

This is a good start.
BTW, Wardężyn belongs to Grabienice Parish, 4.5 km away. But according to wikipedia the parish keeps only post 1945 archives.

A propos Bednarkow
Bednarkow is not a typical Polish name, although admissible as a Russian male surname. But please check again, whether or not the name is actually written as Bednarkowa, with an "a" at the end. This would make sense, because according to Polish naming tradition the following was an acceptable norm:

Bednarek - a man
Bednarkowa - his wife
Bednarkówna - their daughter
However many a time the surname Bednarek would be equally applied to a man, his wife and their children.

I searched for surname Bednarkow in one of the best databases of marriages, covering Great Poland Province and the years 1800-1899. Unsurprisingly, there was no exact match for that name. There were however 330 approximate matches, which can be broken as follows:

+ Bednarkowa: 31 cases, of which 23 were explicitly declared as widows. Well if a Bednarkowa woman marries a man, she had to be previously married to a man named Bednarek. Makes sense.

+ Bednarkówna: 6 cases. Also makes sense, according to the above rule.
+ Bednarka: 9 cases. Those were also widows, probable after a man named Bednarz.
+ Bednarek: 279 cases, of which 91 referred to brides.

But none of those Bednarkowa, Bednarkówna and Bednarek married any Ratajczyk man in the Great Poland Province.

Among those 330 matches for both men and women, there was not a single Anna. But there were nine Mariannas, one Martianna and one Julianna. The name Agnes/Agnieszka was quite popular too:

+ Agnes Bednarkowa, a widow, married Casimirus Gebler in Sośnica in 1823
+ Agnes Bednarek (43), a widow, married Martinus Krzyżaniak (51), a widower, in Biezdrowo in 1829
+ Agnes Bednarek (21) married Stanislaus Błaszyk (25) in Brodnica in 1862
+ Agnes Bednarek (18) married Franciscus Malek (25) in Brzyskorzystew in 1867
+ Agnes Bednarek (23) married Nicolaus Gronek (28) in Dębno in 1863
+ Agnieszka Bednarek (24) married Tomasz Broniecki (30) in Błaszki, in 1864
+ Agnieszka Bednarek (22) married Andrzej Chmiela (26) in Boleszczyn in 1854
+ Agnieszka Bednarek (17) married Andrzej Zapłotny (22) in Cieszęcin in 1854

See Poznan Marrriage Indexing Project, poznan-project.psnc.pl/project.php

Genealogy / Ratajczyk/Bednarkow surnames [7]


To start with - which Grodziec do you refer to? There are eight villages of this name in Poland, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grodziec. You need to get some other data, like names of neighbouring villages, a town nearby, etc. to decide on this. At this point the first names of the family members are less important than the name of the right village.

But today's name distributions can be helpful in selecting the right Grodziec. For example, the Ratajczyk names are distributed mostly around Wielkopolska (Greater Poland) Province, and £ódż Province. District of Konin, where 167 Ratajczaks live today, is part of Wielkopolska and this is where the candidate #1 for the right Grodziec is also located, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grodziec,_Greater_Poland_Voivodeship

To confirm it: there are only few (13) Guzniczaks in Poland, but three of them are in Konin.

Better luck comes from the name Guźniczak (with z-acute). There are 1010 such names in Poland, most of them (173) in Konin.

Sadly our luck changes with the name Bednarków or Bednarkow. Our database "Moi Krewni" (My relatives) does not show any of such names in contemporary Poland. But it does not mean that there are not such people in Poland. They simply have not been registered in "Moi Krewni" database.

Double check this name, whether or not it is in fact Bednarek. Due to Polish grammatical rules the family Bednarek could have been referred in plural as Familia Bednarków.

Life / Polish word for 'queue' [18]


youtube.com/watch?v=F-Ak6oZYM64
- There is a queue here!
- I'm not blind!
- But perhaps deaf?! I say that there is a queue and you walk in and without ...I'm talking to you!
- Mister, why do you pat me so, are you a doctor!?
- You were not standing here!
- Mister, I tell you what - take a bus 125, exit at the Old Town Square; there is a column of Sigismund the Third, so go there and tell him: "You were not standing here!"

Language / The complement of the verb "to be" [14]


I am confused; I do not understand what your problem actually is. So I will try to deconstruct your original question in order to help.

Aside from some archaic forms, infinitives in Polish language end in either -ć or -c, such as być or pomóc. Polish infinitives express aspect, such as robić (imperfective) or zrobić (perfective). This forum has several threads about aspects.

I am not sure I understand you. You started with the example "Dlaczego mu nie pomóc", followed by its English translation "Why not help him", which formally should be "Why not to help him", and then wonder why is "pomóc" in the infinitive? You might as well ask the same question about the English expression, because this is one of these rare cases where Polish and English use the same structure and can be easily translated word for word. Let us see it again:

Why not to help him
Dlaczego nie pomóc mu. (Less elegant version of the original "Dlaczego mu nie pomóc", but perfectly acceptable)
Why=dlaczego, not=nie, to help=pomóc, him=mu.

[Going slightly off topic: Consider the following expression "Dlaczego mu nie pomagać", where the imperfective "pomagać" is used rather than perfective "pomóc". ]


How about this famous phrase for a start?
To be or not to be - that is the question.
Być albo nie być - oto jest pytanie.

I am going to be an actor.
Zamierzam być aktorem.

I hope this helped.

Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]


Neither "oranż" nor "chaos" are borrowings from English.

The word "pomarańcza" comes from French "pomme + orange", "pomarańczowe jabłko".
Oranż: this goes as far back as "pomarańcz", kolor pomarańczowy. Both are derived from French.
See: Barwa pomarańczowa, oranż, pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oran%C5%BC
See: Pomarańczarnia, oranżeria, pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomara%C5%84czarnia
See: Oranżada, oranżada w proszku, pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oran%C5%BCada
See: Oranż metylowy, pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oran%C5%BC_metylowy

Similarly, the word chaos goes way back and is settled well in Polish. It came to Polish from the Greek word "chaos" (transliterated).

Specifically, the word "chaos" is well established in mathematics, physics, engineering, economy, philosophy or biology. We say "teoria chaosu", not "teoria zamętu", "układ chaotyczny" (chaotic system), dynamika chaotyczna (chaotic dynamics), etc.

Genealogy / Zaucha ancestry [12]


There are number of Slavic and Slovenian names that had been incorporated into German. In the article in German, entitled "Slavic and Slovenian (Alpine Slavic) names of places in Austria, wwwg.uni-klu.ac.at/spw/oenf/name1.htm, the author provides a short dictionary of "some Slovene (Slavic) words that form Austrian village, mountain and river names" (the names are either in Slovenian orthography or listed in their common Slavic form).

Here I just list them, without explanation: bel, bister, blato, bor, brdo, breg, breza, dol, gor, gora, grad, holm, javor, ledina, les, lipa, loka, pleš, pleša, polje, raven, ravna, reka, riba, selo, sedlo, suh, suha.

As you see, one of them is "suh" (dry, withered) and "suha" (stream bed without water). It appears as dialectal Zauchen in Austrian place names, such as Zauchen, Zauchensee, etc.

So the Zaucha surname could have been derived from "suh" or "suha" - corresponding to "suchy", "sucha" in Polish, meaning dry.

Oh, I missed these two:


Should be Wawrzyniec, not Wawrzenie. Wawrzyniec is indeed the Polish version of Vavřinec (Czech), Vavrinec (Slovak), Laurentius (Latin), Lawrence (English), Lorenz (German)


Should be Wojciech, not Wogociech. Wojciech is a Polish version of Slavic "the joy of war", Vojtěch (Czech), Vojtech (Slovak). The name has been rendered into German in several different variations including: Woitke, Witke, Voitke, Voytke, Woytke, Vogtke, Wogtke, Woetke, and Wötke.


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wojciech


I checked the Zawicha name in "Moi Krewni" database. Not such name appears there. There are however 930 surnames Zaucha in Poland, most of them in city of Tarnów and Tarnów region - 359, moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/zaucha.html.