Language / Instrumental and byc - Polish grammar issue [46]

Much appreciated, kpc21 and Polonius!

Language / Instrumental and byc - Polish grammar issue [46]

kpc21,"to be off the mark", to oznaczy po angielsku "być pomyłka", "robić błąd", it had nothing here to do with "punctuation MARKS" in the literal meaning:-)

The rule then with all professions (and "być") is that the Instrumental is used, no matter what?

Marek jest tłumaczem. = Mark is a translator/interpreter.

Karolina jest aktorką. = Caroline's an actress.

etc.

Correct basically?

Language / Instrumental and byc - Polish grammar issue [46]

A nice post, kpc21! Always good to have post infos. especially regarding grammar and such, confirmed by an educated native speaker:-)

Nice to see though, that I wasn't really off the mark eitherLOL

Language / Instrumental and byc - Polish grammar issue [46]

Indeed, Poland, like the States, I've found to be educationally polarized! Many native Polish speakers will typically say or write "Jestem Polak" or "Ja poszłem" etc.. Lech Wałęsa was teased in the press for his poor Polish, much like "W" was teased for his poor English and whose "Bushisms" were embarrassingly legion:-)

Yet one more "wrinkle":-)
To jest książka. = This is a book.
To jest stół. = This is a table.

Both of the above are in the Nominative!

BUT
To jest dobrą książką. = This is a good book.
To jest pięknym stołem. = This is a lovely/beautiful table.

With an adjective added, both of the above are in the Instrumental!

On jest PolakIEM. (Instrumental with "być") = He is Polish.
Ona jest Polką. = She is Polish
Oni ("One" only for neuter/collective or for things, not persons!!) są PolakAMI. - Men or children only! = They are Polish.
Oni są PolKIMI. - Females only! = They are Polish.

BUT

To Polak. = That guy's Polish.
etc..

The above without "być" will be in the Nominative again.

Language / Instrumental and byc - Polish grammar issue [46]

On the other hand, when commenting, e.g. "What a rock!" or "What a beauty!" (Jaka śliczna!/piękność!..), the NOMINATIVE, not the Instrumental is used:-)

This case (narzędnik) has no rough equivalent in English, certainly not as is used in the Polish language, i.e. when introducing one's profession etc.)

Language / Genitive or accusative? Polish language issue. [12]

Gladly, htnroll!

Polish is not an easy nut to crack, something I've said over and over again here on PF.
Even amongst Poles there isn't always clarity on correct usage:-)

Language / Genitive or accusative? Polish language issue. [12]

"It may not be anything good." is how I would translate your Polish sentence, htnroll!

Just to add to what Ziemowit posted, the "nic dobrego" is simply the Polish genitive used where English wouldn't, that's all.

Word for word translation? "That not may be nothing (of) good.", which makes little if any sense in English:-)

Just a quickie addendum! A common expression is "Nic nowego" i.e. "Nothing new" to the answer "Co słychać?" = Hey, what's up? or "How ya doin'?, What's new? etc."Niczego nowego" would be wrong here because it would merely be redundant:-)

Explain things a bit more?

Language / Genitive or accusative? Polish language issue. [12]

Polish tends to use the genitive in ways generally unfamiliar to, say, English speakers:-)

The above sentence is one such instance. Other constructions include wishing anyone "a good/nice day", "Enjoy your meal!", "Happy Holidays!" etc... If translated literally, "OF nice day!" (Miłego dnia!), "OF tasty!" (Smacznego!), or "Wesołych Świąt!" (OF happy holidays)....

When indicating possession, the Polish genitive functions much as in other languages, e.g. "Ksiąźka mojego brata" (My brother's book aka "Saxon" genitive) etc...

The tricky or quirky part comes in when Accusative sentences require GENITIVE case endings when the direct object is a LIVING MALE, e.g. "nauczyciel" - teacher (as opposed to "VIRILE" aka NON-MALE, yet masculine living nouns, e.g. "kot" - cat, "pies" - dog etc.. which do NOT require genitive endings!)

This material would need a far lengthier post than I can squeeze in at the moment. Suffice to say, my explanation above DOESN'T stop right there...not by a long shot:-)))

Life / Is it common for Polish people to speak English in Poland? [122]

...i.e. from "ENGlish" into "GLOBish" and back again:-)

Let's try it, shall we?

20-something male Polish barkeep (Warsaw Radisson): Hi! You guys good? = Well, now! Anything I can get you folks?

20-something (German, French, Italian) patron: Yeah, we good! = No thanks, we're just fine!

etc..

Hey, this is fun.

This then contradicts "Garbage in, garbage out!" This is more "Garbage in, clean stuff out".

Life / Is it common for Polish people to speak English in Poland? [122]

Well I'm glad to hear somebody out there admit it! My G-d, I suddenly feel villified:-)
LOL

Study / Racism in Czestochowa? I'm a black student from France. [14]

It's not meant to denote a contest, Grzegorz! I'm merely stating my own experience, that's all:-)

Life / Is it common for Polish people to speak English in Poland? [122]

"Garbage in, garbage out", that's the deal here! Small wonder that so much of Europe these days speaks mostly bubble-gum English; who are their role models?? The faceless. interchangable young and hunky on US-TV offer little to promote snappy patter, pounding dialogue or challenging chemistry between stars as was the case in Hollywood's glory.

Gloria Swanson's ONE SIMPLE LINE in "Sunset Boulevard" said volumes more than any multimillion-dollar dumm ass show today:

Bill Holden: Mrs. Desmond, you used to be so big!

Gloria Swanson: I still am big!! It's the pictures that got small.

Not only on the Poles, but most other Europeans, not to mention the majority of younger Americans, is such dialogue completely lost.

USA, Canada / Thoughts on moving to Poland from USA [62]

The only city I know (resp. knew once upon a time...) relatively well is Szczecin aka Stettin, to you:-) The Poles whom I met hated it when you call their respective city or town by her "German" name!! Better merrily mispronounce the Polish than Germanize.

I spoke Polish, but I wasn't there for more than a few days total.

USA, Canada / Thoughts on moving to Poland from USA [62]

@Road85,

Having just glanced at your specs, on first glance I'd have to honestly say you're a tad "guilty", so to speak, of plain, ol' fashioned wishful thinking, sir!

Indeed, similar to elsewhere throughout much of the civilized world, folks under thirty in almost any big city are gonna speak at least SOME English:-) As to whether or not you'll land in, say, Wrocław (or the average medium to large metropolis outside of possibly Warsaw!) and hoards of enthusiastic, good English-speaking members of mostly the female persuasion will start literally or figuratively throwing themselves at you, I tend to have my doubts:-)

Then again, I have been known to be wrongLOL

Powodzenia, dude! You'll need plenty of it.

Study / Racism in Czestochowa? I'm a black student from France. [14]

Tariq,

I honestly believe you'd encounter FAR more racism/bigotry if you were Jewish than black! Like so many other Europeans, Poles will probably go out of their way to befriend a foreigner of color (after all, they had a black man in their Parliament, Mr. John Godson, of Nigerian origin!), not fearing the latter as any kind of threat:-)

Foreign-born Jews, even if Polish speaking oddly enough, may well encounter hostility. They are considered still a threat by many Poles, as Israel-mongering nogoodniks, intent on rubbing well-meaning Polish gentiles in the manure of recent history. Untrue as this is, of course, perception REMAINS reality for the majority of people, sadly.

Blacks on the other hand, are seen as a tabula rasa, and therefore most likely welcome.

Life / Is it common for Polish people to speak English in Poland? [122]

@Rogers5, that's been my battle cry for years now! Sloppy's starting to look neat.....and, worse yet ever more quickly, neat's starting to look weird for far too many of us:-)

Life / Is it common for Polish people to speak English in Poland? [122]

"Should of" for "Should've" aka "Should HAVE" etc. is merely one of many effects the cancer of texting and growing illiteracy is having on the foundations of English. Many of my college-age, though not college-LEVEL, students write solely as they text or hear/speak and rarely if ever as they read.

Very soon, I fear, we shall return to a time just around when Caxton brought printing to England, whereupon everyone will be writing as they speak (since few at the time could even read OR write!) and there will be zero uniform standard to the written language. Along with the Normal Conquest in 1066 AD, the former is one of a handfull of reasons why English orthography and pronunciation are so hopelessly chaotic, both for foreigners as well as natives:-)

Life / Is it common for Polish people to speak English in Poland? [122]

My FAVORITE English, indeed British, film! Right on, rozumiemnic:-)

If I even compare Diana and Charles with William and Kate, it's almost like comparing the sublime (D & C) with the ridiculous (W & K)LOL

If anything, Russel Crowe's become the sort of "New Received" Pronunciation, today's answer to Stepney & Bow. What a far cry indeed from Alan Corduner and Jim Broadbent in "Topsey-Turvy".

Life / Is it common for Polish people to speak English in Poland? [122]

@Legal Eagle, quite true!

During WWII, the US - Army proved the single greatest aka most effective literacy trainer in history, teaching almost a half-million G.I.s to read and write:-)

Apropos something different, the American "accent" is positively Elizabethan with her flat "a's" sounded final "r's". The phony King's/Queen's English of Lizzy girl Windsor's but a construct, quite apart from how the average Brit speaks or ever even spoke.

Life / Is it common for Polish people to speak English in Poland? [122]

Agreed, folks! We should then simply rename our terms "Internatlish" vs. "English", declare the former a SEPARATE language from the standard (therefore as such, a SUB-standard form, by defintion), and I'll be satisfied:-)

LOL

Life / Is it common for Polish people to speak English in Poland? [122]

I just love it when I've met Poles who believe they are the next Joseph Conrad and think they know English better than a native speaker aka myselfLOL Rather than become visibly annoyed, as in the case of other Europeans, I find the whole farce terribly funny and start chortling instead of fuming:-))

Life / Is it common for Polish people to speak English in Poland? [122]

@rozumiemnic,

Again people, we're leaping from one extreme to the other! Critiquing Shakespeare is something entirely different from having to downshift to near baby talk with a foreign-born interlocutor, simply because everyday words above a fifth-grade level such as "siblings", "advantageous", fair to middling" etc. prove too challenging for the other person:-)

I've grown bloody sick and tired of having to kowtow to globish garbage!

Life / Is it common for Polish people to speak English in Poland? [122]

I maintain as in previous posts that while it may well be "common" in Poland for people to speak English, as elsewhere in the EU today, the quality is rarely (if EVER) uniform!

True, everyone must learn English, but it is patently false to assert that everyone speaks it well to adequately:-)

History / Why did Hitler kill so many Jews in Poland? [261]

Had it gone through, it's safe to assume there would have either been no Holocaust in the dimensions known today, or, at best, it would have been deferred by several years.

Always tough to second guess history:-) Either way, the Jews would've lost. The Missouri incident now, that might have changed the course of the Holocaust a bit more favorably, if not the War. In the latter, Hitler would have perceived Roosevelt as a far stronger nemesis than he turned out to be. Instead, history has proven our president to have been snug in the pocket of the Breckenridge Longs, the Bilbo's, Rankins and Gerald L. K. Smiths of the time!

History / Why did Hitler kill so many Jews in Poland? [261]

Hitler also allegedly proposed the now infamous "Madagascar Plan" in an effort to ship remaining Jews to the far corners of the globe that might agree to taken them in, like so much flotsam and jetsam:-)

History / Why did Hitler kill so many Jews in Poland? [261]

Poland remained Hitler's foremost killing ground. Next to such even today "judenreine" countries as the Baltic States, Poland is nearly one giant graveyard for Jews!

Life / Welcome to Poland ! (Stay away for your own sake) [239]

It's a sincere shame your experiences were initially so negative, but that should be no reason for projecting your own dissatisfaction, however justified, onto others who might honestly wish to both work and study in Poland! There'll always be that rank crop of lunatics, hotheads, fanatics and boneheads in every country.

In the US, for instance, in numerous cities, young Muslim-Americans have been randomly attacked, spat on, called vicious names and told to "go back to your f******g country!!", although in nearly every such instance, the victim was a native-born US-citizen.

Is that though conversely any reason to mount a anti-US cyber rant??

Work / How to find work in Warsaw "if u don't speak Polish" ! [176]

When I was growing up (and I'm only in my early fifties, by the way), it was common from the US-born greengrocer up through a university professor, from teens to tottering senior, to use in daily parlance such expressions, as "My better half said...." or "Oh' don't hide your light under a bushel....", "Let's not quibble....." etc....

Just yesterday in our local market in a rather upscale section of Forest Hills, my wife and I ran into a thirty-something woman whom we know in the neighborhood, a Forest Hills transplant by the way originally from Ecador but here since the age of fifteen, at which point my casually asked, "Hi, Lona! Sooo, how's your better half?" At this point Lona and a few others on line turned around and looked at my wife as though we both had two heads:-) Lona appeared equally perplexed and didn't seem to know what my wife meant. I then interjected, "You mean you don't know how your own husband's doing??" sort of as a joke. Lona the said, "Oh, fine!" Our conversation resumed and we went our separate ways.

The moral here is that, as you said, the more any language becomes overused, the more impoverished it becomes. Luckily, only English has gone that route. Hopefully, Polish, German and others won't follow in my lifetime:-)

Work / How to find work in Warsaw "if u don't speak Polish" ! [176]

@Webkot,

Before German was merrily trounced from most US public highschools, that was the most learned, practical second language, that and French:-)

@Maf,

What you say about foreign learners is sadly true which is why world English aka Globish has become such a bleedin' joke, people. In making room for the so-called "tapestry" of diversity, what's fallen by the wayside is the very Anglo-Saxon richness which makes English "Anglish", and NOT Russian, German, Farsi or any number of other additives.

Work / How to find work in Warsaw "if u don't speak Polish" ! [176]

We already are, Webkot, and have been for some time now, at least here in the States:-)

In the UK, you all still learn primarily French as your second language, correct?