History / Does Poland deserve credit for the 1989 Revolution? [87]

Well, we were there first! Okay...second....after the Celts....but Slavs came here last!
That's mainstream history, nothing what I thought of.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_peoples

The English are in big parts germanic (Anglo-Saxons you know), the Dutch of course....France got it's name from the germanic tribes confederation "Franks" who founded this country and build under Charlemagne the first Reich, embracing most of

central Europe.
The old Germans conquered Rome...they settled coming from Scandinavia all over Europe. Till down to Spain and northern Africa.

Yes, you Poles were late comers in this part of the world!

PS: To avoid misunderstandings, the germanic peoples always lived in tribes, wandering, settling, warring, wandering again...
Modern Germany is only one of the germanic tribes nations today (and even now we cherish our different regions cultures).
Not every German today is a Germanic (due to the mass immigration after the war), nor are all Germanics Germans but members of other nations...but my people is spread all over Europe and even the world now! ;)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_American

News / Changing Face in Poland: Skinnhead Puts on a Skullcap [90]


What nice people....

News / Changing Face in Poland: Skinnhead Puts on a Skullcap [90]

Well, if they have moved on, don't adhere to their dark age traditions anymore nobody would call them "Orthodox" or even "Ultra" anymore, because they aren't.

But this ex-Skinhead doesn't sound as if he decided for a moderate form of his new belief!

Oh and I think I can judge fanatic Taliban for example as an all around bad thing without having lived with them together in a terrorist camp!

PS: This article is from the 18th February this year.


Why should these Orthodox nuts change now as they didn't for a millennia???


Really!


thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/03/setbacks-for-women-in-israel-pakistan-and-afghanistan/

News / Changing Face in Poland: Skinnhead Puts on a Skullcap [90]

Okaaaay :)

News / Changing Face in Poland: Skinnhead Puts on a Skullcap [90]


They still prefer their dark age traditions....I despise especially the slow killing of living animals for their religious reasons (!) or that the men are busy in tora schools whereas their women have to do all the works, or that women haven't the same rights as men at all (sounds familiar?).

They brought an article in Spiegel not far back about orthodox teenager running away from their
orthodox homes (in Israel), wanting to have a chance for a life and education..
They are as fanatic, intolerant and unforgiving to every non-komformist as every other religious fanatic group!

spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,678264,00.html


Eerily familar to some other cults one could mention if you ask me...

News / Changing Face in Poland: Skinnhead Puts on a Skullcap [90]


Well, the orthodox Jews can (as all fanatics) be quite a nasty bunch too...
IMHO he only exchanged one fanatism with another one!

Before that he used to harass Jews, now he found out he is one himself, then changed to harassing whoever is now his enemy as he is being told now...

News / Changing Face in Poland: Skinnhead Puts on a Skullcap [90]

Reminds me of the Nazis who became the most ardent communists after the war...."attracted to extremes" my ass! Some people just need dogmas to survive....

Somehow I think being an orthodox Jew now is yet not the end of his journey! He is still quite young, no reason he will not end up as a reasonable being some more years and experiences later.

UK, Ireland / Britain... What the Poles did for us. [444]

Apropos Argentina....will Poland stand by GB's side when they go to battle for 5000 sheeps on another continent? Again????

;)

Genealogy / If your ancestors were in the "Wehrmacht"... [217]

Further down:


I believe passports could be more often forged than the Ahnenpass! ;)

Genealogy / If your ancestors were in the "Wehrmacht"... [217]


I disagree!
It was an official document for what your grandparents had to bring proof, like birth certificates, they needed to write to churches for marriage certificates, clerks needed to subscribe those documents etc.

Surely some could forge all that, the same who can also forge passports...but most people can't.

And they were checked and today when you are interested you can re-check it all over....a great starting point for family genealogy!

Genealogy / If your ancestors were in the "Wehrmacht"... [217]


Then you could hardly had an Arier-Nachweis, can't you? ;)

Look it up, if it's the real thing you should find all names and stuff from your german ancestors (birth, marriage, death, where, when etc)...after all that's what that thing was for in the first place!

(A treasure for all interested in genealogy!)

On the other hand literature nobel prize winner Günther Grass was a Kashub from Danzig...he ended the war as a youth in the Waffen-SS.

Maybe you really count as full-Germans...even then, no DVL 3 for you, but 1.

Genealogy / If your ancestors were in the "Wehrmacht"... [217]


Well...to be honest....I don't know enough of your case to judge.
But if your family had the Arier-Nachweis then you are full blooded Germans as in Volksliste 1 (Congratulations).

With the big one (going back to 1700) you were even eligible for an officers career in the german forces! ;)


Well...something doesn't add up here....

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_certificate


Here is more info (in german only)
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariernachweis


Frankly...something doesn't add up here.
As your Arier-Nachweis clearly proves your german heritage you were free for conscriptions like all Germans.

No DVL 3 for you! ;)

Genealogy / If your ancestors were in the "Wehrmacht"... [217]


Those with the Arier-Nachweis!
Germany at that time didn't give out citizenship like it does today.
You needed blood relationship, being of german heritage.....

Volksliste 1 were all ethnic Germans in the Reich
Volksliste 2 were all ethnic Germans outside of the actually borders after the Treaty of Versailles and of those strong minorities in other european countries.

I mean those two!

And for most of the higher professions and careers Germans needed to bring documents which showed their heritage back to 1750, the so called "Arier-Nachweis".

But very rarely people were forced into 1 or 2, why should Germany do so and why?
As the Nazis were busy all the time to weed out the Jews and the "subhumans", looking under every stone for them, should they now actually force foreigners to become Germans???

You had to bring some evidence and actually apply for it or to subscribe when you were asked.
It is illogical to force non-Germans and it was not regular practice.... but that narrative was the big and useful alibi after the war!
But I think now, 65 years after we can talk more openly about this....


Freiwillige were for the SS mainly.

Wehrpflichtige were for the Wehrmacht. Conscription was for all able, male Germans. Germans only!
I'm sure there were no german nationals conscripted into the polish forces....well, the same was true with the german army too.
You can call it "forcing"...as every conscription is kind of "forcing".

Genealogy / If your ancestors were in the "Wehrmacht"... [217]

That's what I'm saying all along....they were asked, nobody was forced! If they counted themselves as Germans they had to follow the same conscription rules as in the Reich of course.

All this "we were forced" was a convenient alibi once the Wehrmacht left...understandable but still only an alibi to survive the course of events!

All of Germany would have this alibi if you take it seriously...as every conscription under a dictatorship is more or less forceful. ;)
Or how do you think the military police handled Reichs-german conscript refugees???

(But it is really astounding how many Germans are here on PF!) :)

News / Crucifixes to stay in Polish schools [364]

Yes, the most religious countries...like....say...with taliban rule...are so progressive and successful, aren't they!

Genealogy / If your ancestors were in the "Wehrmacht"... [217]


Bamberg? Ja???


Please! *goes into hug position*

Genealogy / If your ancestors were in the "Wehrmacht"... [217]


You are German too???

My....so many Germans in Poland....:)

Genealogy / If your ancestors were in the "Wehrmacht"... [217]


Well, that's exactly the reason why such blunt judgements as from Hitty are so wrong!
Everything between our peoples was so mixed and so messed up....most of us have probably ancestors from both sides anyhow...

Genealogy / If your ancestors were in the "Wehrmacht"... [217]

Well, I would never call all these 'ski's in the Wehrmacht "traitors"!

I would never judge my ancestors before I didn't walk a week in their shoes...who am I to dare this!

Genealogy / If your ancestors were in the "Wehrmacht"... [217]


Hitty!!

Genealogy / If your ancestors were in the "Wehrmacht"... [217]


When did it ever suit them to be Polish citizens???
They didn't asked for it, there was no Poland till 1919....how are your history grades????
Ever read the surveys of....say....Silesia???
The majority voted for Germany....between them my Grand parents...the Poles made it clear that they wanted all of Silesia but not the Germans!

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silesia#Demographics


There you have your "traitors" !
The going got though for them since they became a minority in a hostile new country after Versailles!

Genealogy / If your ancestors were in the "Wehrmacht"... [217]

Absolutely!
That was no video game...

Genealogy / If your ancestors were in the "Wehrmacht"... [217]

Maybe there is a misunderstanding again?

Poles weren't asked to join the Wehrmacht, only Germans.
And there were different Germans...those who lived in Prussia/Germany till 1919 can hardly
be seen as traitors...they didn't ask to become Poles in the first place!

Who do you mean with "traitors" ?

Genealogy / If your ancestors were in the "Wehrmacht"... [217]


Well, take the Danziger for example.
It wasn't their choice being placed outside of Germany...they wanted back...they saw the Wehrmacht as liberators....who was the enemy here???

There were hundreds of thousands of Germans who were placed into new-Poland by the Treaty of Versailles.

Genealogy / If your ancestors were in the "Wehrmacht"... [217]


There will always be some stupids who are judging other people from other times without knowing what they would had done or believing they know it all...a sure sign of the very young and the very clueless!

Genealogy / If your ancestors were in the "Wehrmacht"... [217]


Either they were or they were not....

Genealogy / If your ancestors were in the "Wehrmacht"... [217]


Your ancestors were German????

Because otherwise they weren't even asked....

UK, Ireland / Britain... What the Poles did for us. [444]


I came to the conclusion that history is no math...there is no ultimate truth, equally true for everybody everywhere. The view on the same part of history changes with your own background, your nationality, your age and your knowledge.

If people could accept that most of the discussions and feuding and grudging could stop...Poles see their version of history as the only real one, so do Germans and Ukrainians and Brits and everybody else.

But as it is people fight to convince the others of their version...people become bitter and hostile about conflicts ended long ago.

Sometimes I doubt the value of history teaching...especially the stupid saying "who forgets history is bound to repeat it"...what thoughtless crap.

As I see it in such boards old grudges are only being kept alive, heated on again and renewed with each new generation who should actually be busy reconciliating with each other...

History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]

Yeah....when you so want EVERY human society is a dictatorship...so what..
(I prefer this current dictatorship to other tried dictatorships in our past though!)

Life / Why Poles are so crazy about their country? [55]


German bread is the best!

*runs*