Life / How can Polish immigrants complain about other immigrants? [65]


:) our ingeniousness is widely known


Ah, yes. We are not following our stereotypes blindly :)


Ok. It was like unfinished, the second one. Because
'I don't agree with specifically targeting Poles on the issue as well, but this is Polish forums, about Poles, so this is not much of a problem.' People can make quick simplified remarks, that's life, and we talk Poles here, so it's the easier to utter something that looks like actual singling out. Whether it is or not, remains to be explained. If so, then it bothers me in a way, yes.

Life / How can Polish immigrants complain about other immigrants? [65]

Entirely on topic this time, wholeheartedly congratulated. Thank you so very much indeed.

MG, the topic is about complaints of Polish immigrants. You made a statement, in a form of question, and that's how the thread originated. If you don't want to back up your statement as it is, nor to modify it, nor to add to it, nor to ask relevant questions, then your presence here is not desired. This topic, imagine that, is not about you. Start a new thread, if you wish, I might even pop in so that you'll have still more fun wiping the floor. But not here, please.

Life / How can Polish immigrants complain about other immigrants? [65]


Hard to complain about Nigerians in PL


No it's not :) Being a bit provocative, or what. Or hoping to see if anybody notices that. The generalisation, I mean. Singling out Poles doesn't bother me.


Huh? I am not quite getting your meaning... clean and safe as opposed to Newham, for example. Or do you consider this remark a racist one?

Life / How can Polish immigrants complain about other immigrants? [65]


Sorry, I meant 'work' in a very specific way. More like 'attack', hence the 'pack'.


:)

*astonished, actually*


not going to argue, I was just describing the Polish POV. As you say, they keep most their problems to themselves. And cannabis on the streets... first, I associate it with black rather, than yellow. Second... weed is... not that I am using it...


You and me, Ok, but I was speaking of a 'typical Pole, naturally racist'. A 'typical' whoever is usually dumber than most of the individuals who contributed to the type. What actually surprised me here, was that all Poles I met consider mixed Jewish-English areas the best for living. Quiet, clean, safe, nice neighbours, both unimposing and helpful in case.


Right, I forgot the orthodox. Shows I have no issue with them either - and I didn't remember any other Pole who had. Now that you mentioned it, my reaction to the orthodox area was rather that of a tourist, tinted with some typically Polish sentimental sentiments.

Life / How can Polish immigrants complain about other immigrants? [65]


You are getting too touchy. Understandable after the recent thrashing, but please.

You nick was mentioned just once, in quoted remark. Thus I tried to illustrate my previous frame of mind, and distance myself from it. Sorry for failing to communicate.

If you feel like contributing to the topic, you are welcome. If not, please consider yourself kindly requested to stroll away to the Random.


No, hence the topic at all. I don't agree with the generalization 'other immigrants'. I don't agree with specifically targeting Poles on the issue as well, but this is Polish forums, about Poles, so this is not much of a problem.

Life / How can Polish immigrants complain about other immigrants? [65]


Same in the UK... except here we include European immigrants in the privilege.


Good for you. But we are discussing Poles here, not you.


Point is, that the boat is not really important for us. Like, arbitrary grouping is waste of time and renders misleading conclusions.


Off-topic, like. See the title.

Well, formally off-topic, but has to be addressed anyway, if the topic is to stay. So:
1. Maybe the topic has been discussed, still there are people who keep repeating the question, in bewilderment, so we might as well try and resolve it at last.

2. If the topic is against the forum rules, then
a) all the numerous previous discussions that you refer to should've been killed in the cradle; they weren't, I presume
b) you shouldn't have asked the question in the first place. Seems to me the rules are for all members.


*sigh*

Please imagine that I included the following request as a part of the topic:

'And no personal jabs, please'.

And you are free not to participate, thus making it much harder for Bzibzioh to get back at you personally. Not that I wouldn't rather that you elaborated on your statement, maybe to the benefit of all.

Life / How can Polish immigrants complain about other immigrants? [65]


Huh? Verbally, mostly...

You mean what about? Excuse my lame English.

The popular topics are:
- abuse of the benefit system
- laziness and lack of competence, paired with:
- inflated expectations, 'gimme' attitude
- playing the race-abuse Card
- criminal inclinations
- racism... group-favoritism, let's call it

Hard to say which are the most popular. Important (and rather obvious to most people) thing is, that these accusations are not directed against 'non-Polish immigrants' in general, and not even against 'non-white immigrants' in general. There are specific groups that are targeted, although they can be often wholly contained in one race.

Besides, many opinions on particular groups are not exactly complaints, just observations which may, or may not, be considered derogatory. Like "Indians know how to make money'. This maybe followed either by 'fvcking leeches', or by a resigned/envious sigh, depending on personal taste.


Granted, but this was just an off-hand remark, so we can be more forgiving here.


That's somewhere in the direction I am aiming at, but it's a simplification. Actually, if you concentrate on legality, it's not a general attitude. Before 2004 Poles were illegal here, and the memory is still quite fresh, so legality is rather a supporting argument only.

The thing is more complicated. Of course, from a newcomer you may hear 'blacks are lazy cvnts', but quickly the fresh immigrant learns how to recognize a West Indian from a Somali, and opinions get differentiated.

To put in practical context:

Nigeria - system abusers, crooks, thieves
Somalia - similar, but more inclined to work as a pack
Ghana - nice people, actually
West Indies - warm, friendly, hard working, decent, racist; this doesn't include the rasta-reggae-ganja' type, another box.
Pakistani - cowardly crooks, never to be fully trusted
Filipino - sympathetic, hard working carers, poor girls
China - DVD dealers; crooks, but useful; harmless
Thailand - well... nice girls

Then whites, separated for the benefit of... Ok:

Czechs, Slovaks - easy to get along with, good companions, maybe a bit too materialistic (and sorry for bundling the two nations together)
Romanians - thieves, beggars
Lithuanians - working horses, if not too bright, with a grudge against Poles
Russians - actually quite all right and amiable... those who came here, that is
Hungarians - acceptable, no specific characteristics, just regular people
Jews (are Jews white, MG? ) - good neighbours, respectable; tough in price negotiations, yet honest in agreed payment, unlike the Indians
Irish - good companions, but b1tches at work.
English - oh, they are natives...
Poles, right - now that's a whole big story

The bottom line is:

Poles might be 'in the same boat', as MG said elsewhere, but it doesn't have the slightest importance, unless somebody... well. There are much more important factors than the immigration status of whatever group. Namely, the group's characteristics, as perceived. Not without reasons.

UK, Ireland / Poles - go home make your country better [40]


Families can be brought along :)

I, for one, like it here. Somehow.

History / United States of America Vs Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth [74]


What Sokrates forgot to mention, during the state of war the Sejm usually operated pod węzłem konfederacji, 'under the knot of confederation', literally. Which meant some privileges were suspended, including liberum veto.


Husaria was the most efficient cavalry ever, Polish sabre the peak of development, and we had the best tacticians in Europe, by dozens.

Right. I meant the period of Rzeczpospolita Szlachecka, when the king could not wage a foreign war using the army of the state without the consent of Sejm, and didn't usually get it, as it meant increase in taxes. Can't recollect any aggressive war in this period, except for Batory's trip to Moscow.

The gentry youth's proficiency in arms came from the proud and sanctified Sarmatic Tradition, on one hand, but mostly from the constant turmoil in the East, which was not provoked by Poland, but offered military career opportunities for poorer gents, and for younger sons. I say 'mostly' because of Kochanowski and his references to the Sarmatic ideal of the time: grow corn and cattle in peace, and sell it for gold to hungry Englismen. And keep your karabela on you at all times.


Russia, I know, Batory. Now count how many times Moscovites tried to invade Poland. In the diaries it comes back again and again like a broken record: 'and Moscow came again this year, got beaten by...' Sweden I do not remember, really. Wallachia, possibly, but with this unimportant nation I don't even remember when could it be. As for the Teutonic order and the Electorate, we are talking PLC here...


That would be Russia and Sweden. Turkey was mostly happy with what they got, and waged war on Poland as a means to stop the highly annoying Zaporozhan raids rather...


Yet they tried again and again, some of them. 'Gutless' as in 'not minding their business of conquering their weaker neighbours'. Who didn't always pay back with similar indifference.


Not quite so, I'd say. Mobilisations were usually late. West was having their own problems. South was the Jagiellonian House, and quite friendly. East... Tartars the eternal troublemakers, but Turkey as such not really interested, at the end of the day. Russians with their dream of power, yes, but you can't really call it a war every time. Sweden should have been dealt with better, both politically and militarily, if need be. During the 16th century Poland enjoyed peace, only later the demons woke up. As a result of neglecting the reasonable politics of the time, i.e. taking them out while they are weak. Hence - a pacifist nation.


And don't forget the utterly stupid claim to the Swedish crown, which irked Gustavus in the first place.

You got it nicely in the nutshell, though, pleasure to read. Except that there would be no invaders, if PLC dealt with them in time, on its own terms, while in power. But that would be a different country then, wouldn't it. Different history with different twists

History / United States of America Vs Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth [74]


What was the reason of the wars, though...

You get my vote for the rest you said.

History / United States of America Vs Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth [74]


17th century in Poland was almost constant war, in their territory. Difficult to trade what you can't produce.


PLC was a pacifist country, and the result was that all the neighbours tried to conquer this apparently gutless nation. Which resulted in Poland fighting defensive wars on its territory. USA is more like aggressive, and fights abroad only. Big difference.

History / The Untold Battle of Britain [205]


You blind or retarded or just being yourself? Too much effort to read a couple of posts with understanding?


Says Harry the Ultimate Authority On the International Law and Internal Issues of Rzeczpospolita Polska.

You are not even amusing. You are a clown with no talent, I'd rather watch yet another whitewash-down-the-pants trick any Sunday than get excited with your attempts on provocation. I only answered to make it clear to everybody what I think about you, with full justification, and once is enough.

Over and out from me, wankker, you can bang your head against any wall you may find reactive.

History / The Untold Battle of Britain [205]


Not so, actually. And Stalin hastened to provide another eye-opener already in March, by arresting the representatives of the Polish government, who agreed to talk, having no real choice left. They were publicly tried and convicted for treason against the Soviet Union, well before the Allies formally abandoned the Govt in Exile and smiled to Bierut.

History / The Untold Battle of Britain [205]

You are a misplaced person, Harry. Wrong place, wrong time, You'd make a prominent Pravda correspondent. Too late, and you have to live with it.

TRJN will be pledged. A puppet government sitting on Soviet bayonets will hold free elections in a country occupied by an army of a murderous and rapacious regime. Not even Roosevelt believed this, but you are obviously capable of unheard of feats of faith. Which I doubt, personally, so other conclusions leap to mind.

I believe you are smart enough to answer the simple question, why was a new provisional government needed at all, when the fully legitimate one was alive and kicking, and had a long and successful history of cooperation with the Allies. And even a representation in place, although not for long.

History / The Untold Battle of Britain [205]


Maybe you are 'fast with Wiki', but you can't read it.

History / The Untold Battle of Britain [205]


You suggesting Stalin would have invaded Britain if it didn't agree to creating the puppet regime in Moscow?


There was a functioning government in France years before. Any logical conclusions?

It didn't 'become clear'. It was the result of Yalta, Feb 1945, where the Allies agreed that Poland becomes the Soviet province.

Betrayal is betrayal, whatever reasons there might have been.

Life / Is Poland split into two religions: catholicism and non-believers? [103]

He learned there is a slate.

UK, Ireland / Are you able to hear the different English accents? [97]


Right. I got it immediately, proud of it. But if you barked it at me eye to eye, I'd probably look pretty sheepish for at least a moment. Unless after some time of acclimatisation.

UK, Ireland / Are you able to hear the different English accents? [97]

Am I able to hear them?? Sometimes I feel I'd accept a special tax for the National Bureau of Language Standardization, with a strong Investigation, Enforcement and Prosecution Department. All very nice and interesting, variety of accents, but I need to communicate, and sometimes pretty promptly. You get used to Estuary, then a Brummie comes along, drops a quick question, the Glasvegian flashes back the answer, and I stand there solving puzzles.

I knew an Irishman, good people, and some 30 years in England. We worked together, and we used to have a pint or two now and then for about a year - and still I had problems.

I went to visit my friend in Wiltshire, he was renting a house together with his local friend. I needed about an hour to adjust my pattern recognition. We went to a pub together, there were some local blokes, and again I had to adjust. That friend's friend was not quite that local, as it turned out.

I spent two weeks in Leeds, went to a local pub. Tried to ask a bit about the local ale, and ended up just nodding politely. Took me a couple of minutes later at the table to cobble up a probable English rendition. I was eavesdropping on the guys at the next table, and all I understood was that they were speaking of good olden days.

Are you English?

Life / WHY DO POLES USE ENGLISH WORDS IN CONVERSATION? [396]


Now that's a bit over the top, innit (Polish translation: 'odjebało mu?')


Because they happen to be awkwardly lengthy, and they sound somehow ridiculous, now. Possibly it's easier to accept a completely new sound for a new thing, than to bend yourself backwards to derive it from 'purely' Polish material.

Now I look at my first sentence here, and I see it works both ways. It's perfectly legit to say in Polish 'no to już wygląda na lekką przesadę, nieprawdaż?', but my original translation is like more handy, and much more to the point, huh? :)

Edit: didn't refresh the page, my bad. Magdalena answered it much better.

UK, Ireland / Are Polish people importing a new wave of ancient racism into the UK? [402]

I've just read the last page, and it seems you Brits do not need a new wave of racism :) Well done.

'Well done' was not a sarcasm. Good to hear some sane voices from a country where flying national flag needs a real special occasion, and has to be preceded by a nation-wide discussion about sensitivities of all non-locals.

As for the aid, not much to add. Same applies to Poland, let me be biased in my interests. Twenty years after the 'fall of communism' is enough to start walking on your own, and to stop moaning about the difficult past.

So, thanks for having me here, so to speak. And I'll keep my ancient racism to myself.

History / Poland in the eyes of London - before WWII. [60]

There was something else, which I didn't know about till then. A network of concrete acoustic 'antennas' on the southern shores.

History / Poland in the eyes of London - before WWII. [60]


I remember one BBC documentary, and they said that while the RAF was vastly outnumbered, they had a very good early warning system, so they could use the resources where and when needed.

(not to mention Polish fighter pilots :)

News / WHY DOES POLAND BUY GAS FROM RUSSIA? [105]


I could try, actually... My accent is getting less and less Polish...

News / Nigel Kennedy on Poland (Positive and Negative Thoughts) [25]


thanks for that...


Chopin, Agnieszka, Kraków, Polish jazz, Klezmer music, Podhale... enough to get crazy.


Klezmer is Jewish, of course, but the sound of it is like the 'voice from Lithuania'... Funny thing, a Pole.

News / WHY DOES POLAND BUY GAS FROM RUSSIA? [105]


I'd love to react just like you did, only I am not sure about our masters...

History / Poland in the eyes of London - before WWII. [60]


And you should stick to this wisdom, mate, would do you hell of a good. Rough approximation is massively better than barking mad independence of... brain reactivity... or sumtin...

Verily, I say unto thee: every and each nation has its @rsehole. Stands to reason.

-----------------------------------

Seanus, you've got that unnerving ability to sum it all up in a one-liner. I don't like you. You erode my ego.

As for the RAF, though, I think this was not his basic mistake. I think he overestimated your naval power, and thus willingly gave ear to Goering's pompous bragging. I am not going to defend this stance to death, however, and some reasonable compromise will satisfy me more than fully.

UK, Ireland / Are Polish people importing a new wave of ancient racism into the UK? [402]


Exactly. Very intelligent answer, I admire. Now go face some football fans with basic self-defence skills.

Don't waste your time, Matowy. Your point of view is definitely more wordly and metropolitan than that of some Trelka from Norway. UK shows how it all works and no mistake. You know it. I know that you know, and Dariusz knows that too.

As for cases made against Poles in the UK, you seem somehow under-informed, though. Never mind, you're right anyway. Even if a tad to the left.

As for the actual question in the thread's topic, I just can't see it. There's some verbal racism, and lots of new stereotypes, but if you have to live in a multiracial society day by day, buy your food in the paki shop, work for some Jew, rub against a Filipino in the Tube, smell Indian food here and there, shag any available colour, listen to BBC news and watch football in English, then you just do not have enough race hate to spread on all of them.

I've been working and socialising with non-Poles a lot, and I kept my stereotypes about Poles mostly intact. Recently I met quite a bunch of Poles quite fresh from Poland, simple parochial folk, and had a free, un-PC-restictred chat or two with them. And now I don't really know what to think about Poles and their natural racism. The general timbre was: 'yeah, this is a higher culture. Just look at all those races and nations living all together, and no real problem at all...'

Which means, to me, that they are buying it. Bait, hook, float and line. Some Polish rednecks from behind the woods, sucking racism with their mother's milk.

Yeah, Matowy, this is just an anecdotal evidence, I bet you are smart enough to pick it up. I don't care, I say what I see. And sorry for this personal reference. I just don't like you.

History / What are the key features of the Polish Eagle? [56]

:) there was some discussion about what is left and what is right, remember?

If this is from Austria, then May 1934 was during the kanzlership of Dollfuss, 'austrofascist', who delegalized NSDAP in 1933. The Austrian coat of arms in this period did not have hammer nor sickle. Pretty confusing.