Language / I teach English to some Polish people - how to explain them tenses? [33]

That's ok cinek, I wasn't trying to criticise. The juz/jeszcze thing was confusing for me until a girlfriend used them at certain appropriate times.... ;)

Yes, switching from "yet" to "already" does make a big difference to your examples. Thank you.

Language / I teach English to some Polish people - how to explain them tenses? [33]


I drank some vodka. I crashed my car. Two actions, both in the past. If you trust the sequence, I abused alcohol and then illegally took control of a vehicle. Or maybe I drank on Monday and crashed on Tuesday, and there's no connection. Or maybe I told you I drank the vodka first because I couldn't remember all the details of my story, or for dramatic effect. I drank BECAUSE I crashed my car.

Once you introduce perfect tenses, you create a sequence.

I drank some vodka. I HAD crashed my car.

Now there's no ambiguity; you know which one happened first, even though I said it second. And you also know that the first one had an effect on the second one. I loved that old girl, all the high-speed chases and break-downs we'd been through; I'm drinking vodka because now I have to look for another old jalopy on Allegro....

THAT'S why we have perfect tenses. Otherwise you have to throw in all the time clauses and sequencers (yesterday, last week, before that, afterwards) which makes things all messy and childish.

Language / I teach English to some Polish people - how to explain them tenses? [33]


Not sure what you're trying to say; none of those English examples are correct, and my Polish isn't good enough to work out exactly what you mean, as they could be interpreted in more than one way.

Perfect tenses do a number of jobs in English; for use with "yet" they only work in the negative ("I haven't done it yet").

Language / I teach English to some Polish people - how to explain them tenses? [33]

Introducing the passive at this early stage has to be done, for no other reason than for saying "I was born..." Otherwise they'll be saying "I borned" for the rest of their lives and no other teacher will be able to correct them.

Still, grab yourself a decent course book; the English File series had some decent stuff on showing the difference between Present Perfect and Past Simple, and they should be able to get to grips with that if they're really low level.

What sort of English teaching quals/experience have you got, if you don't mind me asking?

Language / I teach English to some Polish people - how to explain them tenses? [33]

It can be extremely useful to keep active and passive tenses apart in TEFL, especially if you're teaching a student with an ergative L1 (which isn't the case in Poland, or anywhere in Europe as far as I remember.) Treating them as just an aspect can cause problems further down the line for a lot of learners.

Language / I teach English to some Polish people - how to explain them tenses? [33]


Well strictly there's 20* and once you add voices you're in the realm of 30 different tenses (depending on which school of linguistics you subscribe to) so arguing over the 12 isn't a good place to start.

Other comments about the present perfect/past simple distinction are valid; it still rears its head in Advanced coursebooks. One of the best examples I present to students is "Have you ever visited Venice/ Have you ever been to Paris/ Did you ever see the World Trade Center?" Ask them to work out why the last option is in the Past Simple, not Present Perfect. Then repeat "did you meet my grandfather/ have you met my grandfather?"

Of course, you could just photocopy pages from Murphy and make them do it over and over again, like Polish teachers seem to do.

*12 active, 8 passive

Love / How to find an English speaking boyfriend in Poland [110]

Getting to the point again; are there not dating sites available that you can use? I'm sure there are English-speaking men out there similarly frustrated with Polish women (for all sorts of reasons.)

Life / My own thoughts about life in Poland (have lived here for two years) [133]

I wholeheartedly support the sentiments of the original poster, although I will say there has been a modicum of change over the last six years (I moved here a few months after Poland joined the EU.)

I will say, however, that a large number of Poles in cities will agree with you; they are equally frustrated by prices, taxes, and the speed of progress.

UK, Ireland / Why English do not like Polish? [417]


Not for the last six years. I'm only commenting on that section of the UK that would make such a silly statement as "I bloody hate Poles". There's no REAL reason to hate Poles, or any other law-abiding immigrant, so I came up with the only rational reason for an otherwise irrational hatred.

UK, Ireland / Why English do not like Polish? [417]

Because for years the English have had the chance to blame their laziness, stupidity and irresponsibility on the obviously-different people coming into Britain.

Now that pale-skinned blue-eyed hard-working Europeans from the same area of the moral compass have come in, the English haven't got a xenophobic leg to stand on; the Poles have made them look bad. They can't even criticise the food, because kielbasa and cabbage are infinitely better than Pot Noodles and Marmite washed down with Tizer.

So the English hate the Poles because they've got no reason to be xenophobes any more. Boo hoo. "Bloody Poles, comin' over here, doin' the jobs we won't, treatin' our wimmin with respect, gettin' rid of our old junk scrap cars for us, it just ain't right."

News / Newsweek's The World's Best Countries (Poland ranked 29) [128]


The Big Mac Index is used, crudely, by currency traders. It's not really a sign of how rich or not any country is.

Basically, McDonalds' products are universal, as is the American dollar. So McDonalds will have done a very thorough analysis on how much citizens in each market can afford to spend on a Big Mac. The cost of a Big Mac in USD, in the States, is then compared with the local price of a Big Mac, in that country, converted into dollars.

So if we say the USD/PLN exchange rate is 3, then a $3 Big Mac should cost 9zl in Poland. If a Big Mac is more expensive than that, it means the PLN is weak and traders should buy zlotys because they will strengthen in the future. PPP is therefore this theoretical exchange rate that McDonalds have decided is the true value of the Polish economy; 2.13 (or 1 dollar is 2.13 zlotys.)

History / Norman Davies - the Brit who loves Poland and becomes one of Us [250]

I'm not supporting Harry's concept of a Blameless Britain, but I've yet to see exactly how Britain could have helped Poland back then. How exactly do you deliver enough troops to Poland to make a difference, without going through Germany?

I know one of the plans was to come in through Finland, but the Finno-Russian war (Winter War) didn't allow that to happen. Planes couldn't have airdropped that many and returned, ships couldn't have got through the Baltic with that many men; I just don't see how Britain, or any other Western force, could have directly come to Poland's aid.

News / Newsweek's The World's Best Countries (Poland ranked 29) [128]

I used to live in Finland, and if my employer had offered to pay me (instead of the continual internship) I never would have left and come to Poland instead. For me, the weather is the icing of the cake. Bitterly cold in winter, cool in summer, achingly beautiful springs and autumns, and knowing that all the awful tourists who worship beaches, beer and skin cancer will never ever come to visit you. The place is idyllic.

That's not to say I don't like Poland for what it is, Polska polska hurra hurra, etc, before I get drowned in "if you like it so much..." comments.

History / Norman Davies - the Brit who loves Poland and becomes one of Us [250]

I tried to read Rising '44, and couldn't get more than 50 pages in. The completely unprofessional labelling of Poland as "The First Ally", and the insistence on refering to the country by that moniker, immediately marked him out as biased.

With that dirty taste in my mouth, I could tell I was reading populist biased hogwash written purely to appease a market that had already made its own mind up about the Uprising.

I'd love to know more about Poland's history, but not from such blinkered fawning sops as Mr. Davies.

UK, Ireland / The slow, whiny death of British Christianity [86]


Unfortunately, you're at least two of the things on that list. Brainwashed from youth, as that's a demand of the Church, starting with baptism. Not your fault, but undeniable nevertheless. And ignorant by wilfully refusing to acknowledge reason, as you put in your post. Crazy, I can't comment on, but I do feel it's a sickness to refuse to admit you have some sort of problem. Religion is like a self-imposed schizophrenia; you actually want your brain to see fantasies and illusions that aren't there at all.

Believe what you like, but please don't delude yourself with the statement I have quoted above. You have chosen to switch off a significant part of your brain: that area responsible for logic and rationality. Which is a real shame.


I'm not sure we're thinking on the same lines. I meant that the new generation of Britons will grow up thinking rationally, based on logic, evidence and reason, rather than actually changing the minds of the presently religious (which is impossible, due to their sickness.) But are you suggesting the Rational Generation will be suffocated by immigrants with their own religions? Maybe you're right.


How utterly ridiculous; possibly the most foolish thing I've read in a while. The sheer inanity of the statement demands a flood of vitriolic explanation as to just how staggeringly stupid that comment is, but it will have to wait while I cut some common sense into small enough pieces for your feeble mind to digest.


George Carlin commented on this much better than I could
youtube.com/watch?v=YzEs2nj7iZM

UK, Ireland / The slow, whiny death of British Christianity [86]


Rationality.

Language / "do I" usage in a question? [50]

Yes, you're getting the idea, and although zetigrek corrected you, I'm sure most people would understand what you wanted from what you said.

Just remember that the end of the verb changes depending on who is saying the verb (you, me, him, her), so "robić" (to do) becomes "robię" (I do). "Robi" means "he, she, it, Mr or Mrs does."

As for the "to, te, ten, tam, tego" - that's just Polish being stupid, sorry, specific.

Language / "do I" usage in a question? [50]

In English we have something called Inversion, where you swap words around to make a question with a yes/no answer (which I guess is what you're talking about with "do I...?"

In Polish, there's no inversion. All the words stay in the same sequence as they would in a normal statement, but if you want to make them into a yes/no question, you just stick the marvellous word "czy" at the front. "Czy" doesn't really mean anything*, but it makes questions.

So "I love you" (Kocham cię) becomes "Do I love you?" (Czy kocham cię?) and "I know you" (Znam cię) becomes "Do I know you?" (Czy znam cię?) which are two very odd questions, to be honest. Plus, even at this level, I'm sure I've made a mistake in the Polish somewhere.

Does that make sense?

* it does mean something, but not at this basic stage.

Life / Why Aren't The Shops in Poland Open on Sundays? [82]

As a balance to this religious quagmire some of you have started:

One of the reasons these national holidays affect foreigners is that we're not used to the whole country shutting down with such regularity. No, Poland doesn't have that many national holidays, but it has 12 when England has 8 (I can't speak for people from other countries) and that's a significant increase.

Plus, until very recently (Oct 2008, I think) English employers could include those 8 as part of your 20 mandatory days leave. So if you worked in the UK, where you only get two weeks off a year AND your 8 national holidays, and then move to Poland where people have 26 days PLUS another 12, this massive difference is tangible to those of us who wish these Slavs would stop dossing around and go back to bloody work because some of us have run out of cat food.

Of course, some people (like the originator of this thread) should have planned ahead, but for other situations like baby food or daipers or conventional medical supplies or *ahem* feminine products, having to drive around all day in summer storms looking for a petrol station or Żabka that stocks what you need gets tiring, especially when it happens once a month on average. Let alone finding out that your car needs oil, which means a new oil filter, which means an oil change; none of which I can do because all the big shops are shut and petrol stations don't stock oil filters.

There's hundreds of reasons why people might need something on a Sunday.

Life / Polish people and Politeness [84]


And yet, in any self-order restaurant or fast-food joint, or the meat-and-cheese section in shops, or in fact any situation where you need to make a selection (what awful sandwich LOT will give you during your flight, is my favourite example) Poles behave EXACTLY THE SAME as the Russians in Mr K.'s book. That's why I mean it's hypocritical. He sees Russian terseness as rude, but doesn't see the Polish equally laconic style as equally rude.

"Dzien Dobry"'s are very rare here unless, like you said with friends holding doors for the group, it's with a sort of sense of humour, a joke about the politeness of olden days.

Life / Polish people and Politeness [84]

enkidu, those are some very good explanations and I appreciate them. The only point I can comment on is that Kapuszczynski quote: if it had been written by any other tourist, I can see why it would look strange and would be printed in a book, but if a Polish journalist makes that observation about Russians, can he not see it in his own culture too? Was he trying to say how awful it is, or how Poles and Russians share some cultural features? I don't know.

Maybe I'm looking too deeply at it, but when reading it the first time I thought "Ryszard K., you bloody hypocrite!"

I do admire Poles' honesty in feelings ("you are wrong, that is stupid, you're an idiot"); this is much better than the English polite-to-their-face, rude-to-their-back approach.

Life / Why Aren't The Shops in Poland Open on Sundays? [82]

Neil, there's a small shop on ul Leszno, corner with Okopowa if you're driving towards Wola Park. That place was open last time I needed essentials on one of these Workshy Weekends. I can almost guarantee that all the big shopping centres will be closed.

Life / Polish people and Politeness [84]

To balance this, certainly in the commercial sector, I'd rather have the dour Polish attitude of "Co?" at the till than the cheery chirpy and utterly artificial American model of "have a nice day y'all" (which I don't quite believe anyone is really capable of saying, at least not without a lobotomy.)

Poles are generally underpaid, they're not afraid of hard work if they can see the benefit of it, and all they want is to do the minimum that allows them to sit in a chair on their dzialka in the sunshine, for as long as possible. All this modern stuff of trams and offices and meetings might facilitate this wonderful aspiration, but that doesn't mean they have to like it. At least this isn't rat-race inspired rudeness, where we don't have time to say "thank you" because we have to go back to earning money for that new iPod or BMW now now now buy buy buy.

I was reading Kapuszczynski's "Imperium", where he travels around the post-Soviet states in the early '90s, and he experiences this in a small hotel in Yakutsk:

"And now comes our turn to step up to the barmaid. The scene consists of a minimum of words and has a very businesslike character. The barmaid looks at the guest and remains silent - this means that she is waiting for the order. There is no "Good morning" here or "How are you" - the guest gets straight to the point. He says: a glass of cream, an egg, farmer cheese, cucumber, bread.

He does not say thank you; he does not say anything at all superfluous. The barmaid hands him the food, tales the money. Also without a word. She closes the cash register and looks at the next guest."

This, in a small mining town in the Arctic circle, I can comprehend. But how familiar do these words sound to you lot, living in Poland?

Life / Polish people and Politeness [84]


That's very charming of you to say so, even though I had no idea who he is until half an hour ago.

Life / Why Aren't The Shops in Poland Open on Sundays? [82]


a) Poles, whether they behave as such or not, are mostly Catholic. That's the biggest group. The biggest group in a democracy gets what it wants.

b) In a democracy you're free to choose who you want your lawmakers to be. People here keep voting for Catholics; in fact, for some strange reason, it seems you NEED to be Catholic to get the job.

So as far as democracy is concerned, everything's fine. But, if SeanBM is right and there's no law* forcing them to close, the financial democracy known as capitalism means that the first shop that opens on these days will profit, and all the others will either have to change their ways, or go out of business. It's just that no-one wants to be first.

As for planning your shopping: I work during the week, often into the evening. Local shops don't even open until 10am on weekdays, and that's just what the sign says; I've had to stand waiting outside long past 10am until the slovenly wench who's supposed to serve me pet food and muesli bothers to unlock the front door. Poles won't learn how silly this attitude is until the big 24-hour supermarkets have forced small shops out of business, like they're doing in England, and then it'll be too late. I like my local store with its odd selection of cakes and unpasteurised beer, but if they can't be bothered to pay a student 6zl an hour to man the tills in the morning, or evening, or Sundays, I really can't have any sympathy for them.

*the actual law is about National holidays, not Sundays, right?

Life / Why Aren't The Shops in Poland Open on Sundays? [82]

Shops don't HAVE to open for you, and even if there wasn't a law forcing them to close, many would still be shut; give a Pole the chance to take a day off and they will do, gladly (and fair play to them for it, too. There's no point working yourself into an early grave.)

Poles still haven't learned any respect for capitalism; take a simple walk around town during July or August and see how many shops are closed for vacations. Shutting your business for two weeks so that you can sit on the Polish coast? Fine, just don't expect my custom when you come back; I'll find a shop that wants to earn my money from me.

From the religious aspect, many people do, deep down, find the idea of working on a Sunday a sin; from another angle, there are many who need to travel back to their village at weekends, and need that Sunday to do so; if shops were allowed to open on Sunday then bosses would demand of their stuff at least one Sunday shift a month, and many would find that intolerable.

There was a period (Easter-Smolensk crash-May Day) when the biggest shopping malls in Warsaw were closed for four weekends in six; this was unbelievable, absolutely incredible for me.

Life / Polish people and Politeness [84]

I find the initial post of this thread amusing, to say the least. One of the biggest culture shocks of moving here was how cold and distant people are in their day to day life. At first I put this down to moving from an English village to a foreign city, but the more I live here the more obvious it is.

The door opening is one thing; cashiers and counter staff similarly (I still experience the opening part of "Miś" on a daily basis: .... As for the seats on trams; I've seen an old man stand up to give his seat for an older woman before any of the pretty young women in business suits even acknowledged the presence of that babcia. They develop a fixed-jaw glassy-eyed stare out the window that says "don't even think about it." I know it's charming to think of women as the fairer sex, but in Poland this isn't fairness, this is just rudeness.

I've found Poles in public to have one of the most self-centred attitudes imaginable; thoughtless, impolite to the point of insulting, and completely unwilling to help others. Which is really odd, because when among friends or family they're the most hospitable, personable and generous hosts I've ever encountered. I still can't balance this duality in my head.

Whenever I stop and help someone with a broken car (every time; I know my way round an engine) the poor stranded person comments that the only person who stopped to see if they were alright was a foreigner. Sure, the hazard lights and smoking radiator might be an elaborate trick to steal my car, but it's worth checking just in case, isn't it?

Language / What do you like in Polish language? [70]

Polish is the fifth language I've tried to learn, and I'm finding it the least enjoyable. The concept of cases I can understand, but the level of redundancy (making every single adjective agree with the gender, case and plurality of the noun, for example) a real chore. It's also crushing to make a tiny difference in pronunciation between "i", "e" and "y", and then have Poles look at you with blank faces and then a "bardzo nie rozumiem".

On the plus side, I found in Tesco's last night a little book in the "Male Tablice" series for gymnasium/high school students; "Male Tablice: Jezyk Polski" is an 80-page compendium of grammar tables. It's in Polish, but to have a quick reference book with, it seems, EVERYTHING in it, for 7 zlotys, is too good to miss.

News / New cross war in Warsaw [530]


Apathy, laziness, the desire for a quick and simple answer and the need to blame someone else. These four things explain most people's actions, irregardless of topic.

But if you tell me what labels you're talking about, then maybe I can provide a deeper answer.

Law / Car plate numbers in Warsaw [7]

I've registered cars at three addresses in Warsaw (Srodmiescie, Bemowo and Wola) and had to go to Pl. Starynkiewicz every time. The most recent time, the woman in Wola Ratusz told me it was because I had Zameldowanie Czasowego* limited to 5 years, and that was why. Once I have permanent Zameldowanie I can have Wola plates, not these WY... ones.

I don't get stopped by the police often, but when I do they're usually very friendly and will reduce the fine if you teach them a few words in English.

*I'm sure I've made a grammar mistake here, please correct me