News / Huge costs of preparing for EURO 2012 in Poland [38]

Convex, do you make some aerial photos? You would be a star on skyscrapper Wroclaw forum if you would make some aerial photos of Wroclaw biggest building sites, ie. from stadium, new airport, AOW with bridge from time to time... OK, maybe I exaggerated little with star status ;-) But it would be appreciated, no money involved though... There are some pictures of that kind but rare.

News / Poland hosts lowest proportion of foreigners in the EU [115]


I know, one of my logic lecturers was a Vietnamese... Anyway according to wiki 20000 of them has "karta stałego pobytu" which I suppose would count them as foreigners still.

News / Poland hosts lowest proportion of foreigners in the EU [115]

Although it is probably true that Poland hosts lowest proportion of foreigners in the EU, this number 35000 it totally unreliable. Vietnamese alone makes up according to different sources between 20000 - 60000.


Borders during and after WWII were shifted with people...

PS. I've read somewhere that those statistics were based on 2001 census, but source is unsure

Travel / photographing industrial wasteland in Poland? [7]

Wałbrzych area would do, southwestern Poland, near Wroclaw. Gritty town + closed mines + much of decaying but very good architecture + mountains around.

PS. Be aware that there are some places there where it is better to hide your camera.

News / Huge costs of preparing for EURO 2012 in Poland [38]


Yes it is. Previous one was demolished completely. It will be nice stadium, current state of work:

source:
skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=63383241&postcount=19766

source:
skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=63236181&postcount=836

It's suppose to look like this:

source:
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadion_Narodowy_w_Warszawie

A lot of interesting info about actual state of preparations can be found here:
skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=466744&page=264

BTW. very nice movie about Wroclaw:
vimeo.com/14692724

Genealogy / Does anyone have any 1925 to 1945 images of Grudziadz [10]

nope, that is all I've found.

News / Huge costs of preparing for EURO 2012 in Poland [38]

True, all those stadiums are nice but costly. I saw somewhere that overall cost for Wrocław stadium is around 800 mln zł. From that 500 mln zł are financed via credit so we should add interests from that. The idea is that stadium will manage to generate enough profit to pay off this credit. It remains to be seen if stadium operator will be able to make this profit. Good thing is that stadium operator SMG is a big global company wich can bring big events to this stadium (like big stars concerts and so on). So in theory not all this debt will be financed by the city.

Anyway, that costs was and still is a reason for doubt for me, it would be nice to attend some events there though.


Actually after problems with previous main contractor, currently stadium is growing very nicely :-) :




Shopping centre is a different story. In fact is has not much to do with Euro 2012. It has a lot to do with local football team "Śląsk Wrocław" and the concept of financing of this team. It is rather unlikely that they will build it before Euro 2012 because they have a problem with bank credit for that. It is not investition of the city, which is involved though because it has shares in "Śląsk Wrocław", but is not a guarantor of a credit or anything like that.

News / Huge costs of preparing for EURO 2012 in Poland [38]

Accoring to wiki, no:
"According to Games organisers, the funding for this budget broadly breaks down as:
* 63% from Central Government;
* 23% from National Lottery
* 13% from the Mayor of London and the London Development Agency
"

But I will gladly see some valid info from British expact on this forum. I've mentioned LOCOG here because I think that comparision of the two in many aspect similar events can be interesting.

News / Huge costs of preparing for EURO 2012 in Poland [38]

It would be nice to see some comparative info about polish Euro2012 company and London LOCOG (London Organising Committee of the Olympic and Paralympic Games):

london2012.com/about-us/the-people-delivering-the-games/the-london-organising-committee/index.php

On the one hand LOCOG claims that "The costs for staging the Games (£2 billion) are funded from the private sector by a combination of sponsorship, merchandising, ticketing and broadcast rights. " one the other the info on wiki says that 63% is from Central Government...:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Summer_Olympics#Financing

I know that among many users England is not the best example of how things should be done ;-) none the less we need some point of reference. What I can see in common, they have their equivalent of Euro2012 company...

News / Huge costs of preparing for EURO 2012 in Poland [38]


I mean, that whatever opinion anyone have it will not change anything... Off course I don't deny you to have an opinion :-) But right now only the end of the world in 2012 ;-) can stop Euro2012 in Poland. From that perspective in my humble opinion, better thing to do is to argue how to profit from this (if it is posibble)...


In one line you are arguing that 95 bln zl is tremendous amount of money and in the next you are "guessing" that this investment did not have great effect on economy... IMHO taking into account that those 95 bln are more or less 8-9% of polish GDP, then even if divide it by four which gives about 2% of GDP a year and if we remember that those money are directed at vital infrastructure investitions then I would say it is quite a stimulus just in time...


If you are looking for a stick then you always will find one. Maybe their salaries are riddiculous but on the other hand I cann't imagine managing the event of such a scale and complication where such big money are involved without dedicated supervision...

News / Huge costs of preparing for EURO 2012 in Poland [38]

Well, there were many discussions in Poland in time of Euro 2012 bid (so about three years ago) if it is good move, how Poland if at all will profit and all that. I myself were in doubt.

But right now there is no point to discuss that, the decission was made.

Besides, personally now I think it already paid off, because all those buildings programs were right in time when global economic crisis started. Lucky coincidence, but Poland didn't need to look for some big infra programs to stimulate economy because economy where already stimulated...

As for quality of roads, well it varies. It is not like that it is worse because of speed of work, it is rather worse in some places because of simple stealing. For example recently police arrested some subcontractors on A1 highway building site, because they were stealing at night base stones they were putting there at day and replaced it with mine waste, and they were selling it again to main contractor... No wonder than some of new roads have potholes shortly after opening.

But overall EURO2012 project speeded up things which were for years the biggest obstacle in Poland = bureaucracy. A few important laws changed and now it is easier to go through with some infra project. 70% of work for a new road are papers, building itself is just the act of finalizing of a long process. For years those 70% was one big "Can't be done". Due to Euro2012 it finally was unblocked.

News / Huge costs of preparing for EURO 2012 in Poland [38]

Olaf, stadiums are a tiny part in that sum. Most of that 95 bln zl includes highways, airports and so on. Things that should be build anyway. It is just summed up to make better press headline :-)

Genealogy / Does anyone have any 1925 to 1945 images of Grudziadz [10]

Hi

grudziadz.pl/portal.php?pokazg=yes&idg=469
grudziadz.pl/portal.php?pokazg=yes&idg=109

Life / Polish "Forfiter" :) [26]


Here you are: forfiter.istore.pl

:-)

Life / Polish "Forfiter" :) [26]

Yeah, forfitter rules!
And those blues boys have very good sense of humor :-)

Real Estate / Cost of rent for a four room apartment outskirt of Wroclaw [17]


True, that is why only recently most of Poles was looking at most of foreigners willing to move here like at total madmans. Well, times change, now they are perceived as kind of freaks only ;-) ...

Anyway, it is not the right thread for that discussion I suppose ;-)

Real Estate / Cost of rent for a four room apartment outskirt of Wroclaw [17]

Hi
Here you have sites to start:
autogielda.pl/nieruchomosci_do_wynajecia_mieszkania_4-pokojowe.ht ml
autogielda.pl/nieruchomosci_do_wynajecia_mieszkania,do_wynajecia_ mieszkanie_3-pokojowe,II0RAWMK.html

Overall it is rather not possible to have 4 room apartment for 1500-2000 all included. It is rather more like ~2000 + utilities.
Of course it depends what you mean by outskirt. If you mean something in city limits then those links above are correct. If you mean something in agglomeration limits, ie. including near towns like Olesnica, Trzebnica itp. then it is doable. But one word of warning: Wroclaw is currently terribly congested city due to big road building program. If I were you I wouldn't go for outskirts flats in next two years.

Travel / Hospitality, Scenery, Food, Clean Streets: My POSITIVE experiences in Poland (!) [39]


Depends where, try some trips to Warmia&Masury region, or Suwalsczyzna. They have nice variety of local fishes over there in some restaurants. Also at the Baltic region.

As for carp, well it is traditional fish for Christmas Eve in Poland and those of you who spend some time in Poland knows what it means :-) But not all is lost, the thing with carp is that it has to be taken in right time, it has to be a couple of days in fresh water and of course it has to be cooked properly. Unfortunately to acomplish all of this you need some proper babcias and mamas who has their sources and even then it not always works...

Life / Best of two worlds - Poland and... Germany [29]


Part of family of my friend done that, but basically because their father were 1/2 German, so they've got various help from Germany gov. (though they still struggle with German :-)).

Anyway, in their case things are like that:
- they were born in Zgorzelec as Polish citizens, but a few years ago they've got German citizenship also
- now they are living in a nice though relatively small flat in Görlitz in a tenement house (they have some ease from local gov. with rents),

- the guy is working in Zgorzelec (the funny thing is that he is quite often controlled by German police because he is walking through the not existent border very early in the morning)

- they have a child, his wife is probably working in Görlitz now.

As a not so frequent visitor to Zgorzelec and a listener to some stories I can tell this:
Though Görlitz+Zgorzelec is not a very small town, there is a feel of it there, because there is not many young people. Görlitz got a lot of money from West Germany in order to renovate and the city centre is really nice and worth a trip, but it is at the same time quite dead. So there is a big chance that moving there from Oslo will make you bored soon.

As for Zgorzelec and its duskiness, it is because this town basically arised after WWII. Before it was just small suburb of Görlitz, so there is not much of historical buildings there but a lot of commieblocks.

As for general idea moving from Norway to Poland or even to East Germany town, well that is risky. Norway as a Kuwait of the north is bathing in oil and gas money and it will stays that way for a long time. Poland has a long way to go to even have half of that...

News / Polish leader urges EU to keep generous aid funds [32]


Agricultural subsidies is a tricky subject, I don't feel I have enough info to made hard opinion on this one. But regarding your questions: first: yes they do at least in Poland, second: it would be nice to see some stats.

The entirely other issue is do I support it. Thing is that in Poland those subsidies are in a way a social issue and highly political one. In short farmers were one of the group hitted hardest in 90', their support for EU entry was partially buyed by those subsidies. There is still to many people working in that sector, farms are still to small. Therefore I don't see political posibility to stop any funds for farmers. Simply speaking those funds are a life line in Poland in transitional period in which bigger farms are forming. Probably it would happen faster without it but with much more social cost.

Least but not last Poland is far from being the biggest recipient of those funds.

PS. I've found nice article (but in Polish) about direction of agricultural changes in Poland:

versita.metapress.com/content/e74t37022741t513/fulltext.pdf

News / Polish leader urges EU to keep generous aid funds [32]


Specify "every one else". Because if you look at this: upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/Per_capita_benefit_ from_EU_for_budget_period_2007-2013_-_vertical.png

You will see that Poland is among 17 others of 27 who are net beneficiares of EU budget, and not the biggest one per capita. So why focus on Poland. What is more, why focus on any country, when in fact the base entity is a region not a country? It is almost certain that in a few years Masovian Voivodeship will be net payer (or, if Warsaw will be excluded from overall poor region, then only Warsaw...).

So, the question is not: should Poland pay more? the question is rather do you support current EU policy which is to lever up modernization of poorer regions?

Besides what do you expect as an answer from most of Poles when one of the main reasons why Poland accessed EU was because of exactly that kind of policy? It worked for Spain (regardles recent problems) probably it will work for Poland too. In the end, Poland will be net payer if GDP will be bigger then average.

Last but not least you should check carefully what companies are building Polish highways... Among many Polish ones, you will find many Western ones. Some of those EU funds finds a way home in the end, that is the case in many fields of EU support... As much as maybe some Germans or Swedes are mad because of the fact that they pay more than get in EU budget statistics, fact is that many of their building companies are flourishing in Poland thanks to those EU funds. What is probably more important for them, they will finally get decent connection with Moscow wich is what they always dreamed of, but this time trough peaceful means ;-)

Polands position on the map is both a curse and blessing. Now is the blessing time.

History / A view of Poland from far far away [14]

Hi Galloglaich

First piece of info: there is not much Poles on this forums actually, what you get here are mostly foreigners views of Poland some of them with Polish roots. So if you are looking for "Polish views" on Polish history then there will not be many.

As for sabre scenes in "The Deluge" it was made by this guy: "Waldemar Wilhelm"
filmpolski.pl/fp/index.php/11994
His CV says that he was doing quite a lot choreography for duel scenes.

As for "Colonel Wolodyjowski" the story here is maybe more interesting, because main choreographer for duel scenes there was Andrzej Piatkowski a Polish sabreur who won three medals at the 1956, 1960 and 1964 Summer Olympics:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrzej_Pi%C4%85tkowski
sport.interia.pl/inne-sporty/news/zmarl-andrzej-piatkowski-trzykrotny-medalista-olimpijski-w,1491617,3511

As for historical fencing I will not help, but certainly there is quite a lot people in Poland who invest a lot money and effort into it:



those above are only show for "common folks" but in fact many of those guys are very careful about historical details. Maybe you can try to estabilish some contact using that lists:

Those are "Flag commanders" on this show (in polish):
grunwald1410.pl/index.php?art=1
Those are craftsmans making medieval staff (in english):
grunwald1410.pl/index.php?cat=151

As for general history for English speaker, books by Norman Davies can be a good read:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Davies
especially
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcosm:_Portrait_of_a_Central_European_City
as a description of complexity of this region history using example of Wratislavia, Wroclaw, Breslau.

Travel / Camping in the Baltic Coast area, too cold? [16]

No, right know is about 12 to 15 at night. But in the begining of September below 10 at night can happen.

Life / what is with the blasphemy laws in Poland? [9]

Actually there is a law for blasphemy in a sense:
"Kto obraża uczucia religijne innych osób, znieważając publicznie przedmiot czci religijnej lub miejsce przeznaczone do publicznego wykonywania obrzędów religijnych, podlega grzywnie, karze ograniczenia wolności albo pozbawienia wolności do lat 2."

which means more or less:
who offends religious feelings of others can be fined and/or putted in jail for up to two years.

But in real live it is rarely used... The most scandalic in recent years was probably a case of young female aritist who in late 2001 putted pictures of man genitals on the cross. After 8 (yes eight) years of a case in various courts she was finally exculpated from a charge. Court of a higher instance decided that she didn't wanted to offend anyone, case closed...

Travel / Camping in the Baltic Coast area, too cold? [16]


Most of the factors are unpredictable... But usually in September nights tend to be cold, it can be under 10 degrees Celsius at night, but it is nothing that can't be dealt with good sleeping bag (don't get go crazy with that though, it is not Siberia here... pis*ing at night can be quite a chalenge though, I mean "go out from a tent and pis* or wait till morning that is the question" ;-) ).

As for the weather it is all about luck, it can be cold and raining all the time or it can be beautifull quite warm end of the summer time with this feeling of autumn coming. But more likely mix of the two.

One thing to remember, the day becoming to feel a little short in September, the sunsets are about 7 pm then it is also becoming a little after season time. So, less people but also less things to do in the evening, some good book can be helpful.

News / Poland sends firefighters to help Russia [67]

Poland sends firefighters to help Russia
And this is good thing, that is what the neighbours do (if they are not at war at the moment;-) ).
They did help us with floods after all with similar symbolic gestures..

Besides I really cann't restrain myself from general observation, that those firefighters are paid by Polish citizens, by Polish taxes (including mine), and some of "Poles" living a couple of decades abroad have nothing to say about it, at least they shouldn't have... The longer I think of the fact, that some guy who is only visitor here, or even didn't bother to drop by in last decades, he is not a taxpayer here and in the same time has the right to vote, the more clear to me is how not right it is. I mean I think it is good, it is ok to maintain some kind of a bond, interest in culture and stuff like that. But when some guy from the other side of Atlantic is starting to whine about what we should do or not with some firefighters team, then it is a place when he is crossing a line.

What I want to say to such a person is a simple: IT IS NOT YOUR BUSSINESS PAL!

Life / Poland and Shakespeare [23]

Since I have a coffee break ;-) ... :

1. What experience of Shakespeare did you have whilst doing the Szkola Srednia?- if so which play(s)

As of books, from obligatory stuff, Hamlet and Macbeth. Besides of that some theater plays in TV (it was something like that in Poland till public TV were really public...), the best from that was "The Taming of The Shrew" with Gajos.

Post school I've read "A Midsummer Night's Dream" in English more like an language practise though.

PS. I've build countless Sheakspear Theaters in Civ 1, but I don't think it counts ;-)

2. What did you think of his (Shakespeares work?)
Typical cliche: great writer with great insight into human nature and entertainer at the same time.

3. How were you taught it (reading or acting through)
Reading and discussing it (I really didn't liked Hamlet guy, he was such a p...y ...)

4. Did you ever do a performance of his work?
Nope.

5. Did you watch Roman Polanski's 'Macbeth' -if so, reactions
Nope, but I've watched among others Kurosawa's "Throne of Blood" based on Macbeth, highely recomended. Not so long ago I've seen Macbeth made by "SONG OF THE GOAT THEATRE" in old English, well... I didn't understand much of what they were chanting...

6. What do you think are the differences in how Shakespeare is received in Poland to other countries.
No idea, I've never had a chance to talk with foreigners about Shakespeare...

7. Is Shakespeare relevant to Polish students? If so in what way?

Don't know about others, but I simply enjoyed his work, nothing less not much more...
And from more practical perspective if I recall it correctly it was never a bad idea to put some quotation from Shakespeare in school essays ;-)

Travel / Tri-city travel (want to see Gdansk and Sopot) [10]


If you are more into cultural events try to explore this event: en.solidarityofarts.pl

Solidarity of Arts

If you like jazz even a little try to get tickets and hear Leszek Możdzer,
concert is on 21.08:
en.solidarityofarts.pl/events/view/22

this guys is really great:
youtube.com/watch?v=qEx739dYw40

Travel / Wroclaw to Cologne [13]

Without a car you should check buses vs trains:

buses: busy.info.pl/2,42777,46544,wroclaw,kolonia.html

the prices seems to be about 200 zł:

If I'm not mistaken it works more or less like with flights, the sooner you buy the better price you get.

As far as trains are concerned, there is couple of trains you can use. Before modernization there was office for international trains info on rail station, but now I don't know where to look for it. Maybe they move it into temporary terminal.

Law / Online Payment in Poland [13]


https://polishforums.com/law/poland-online-payment-30287/

Market share? there is Allegro and the rest. EBay tried to enter the market but failed miserably.